The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 790 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23671 of 25860 Old 03-01-2017, 12:59 PM
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Curious to hear what people have to say about Hacksaw Ridge. Wife and I watched the Blu-ray disk out of the Ultra HD Combo Pack (haven't switched my 103D in for a 203 yet) and Wife actually asked if something was wrong with the TV when noticed some banding. I don't want to give official score judgement yet as want to watch some other disks to see if something may have been messed with in my AV chain.


Issues were noticed in the seemingly frequent shots over someones shoulder focusing on the main character. The back of the person's head looked banded. I'm sure was stylistic intent to make camera focus on main character with the over shoulder person blurred but didn't seem handled well to me. Maybe one other shot with the sun showed banding, but issue was that once mentioned I looked for it in every shot that was similar.


Besides those few scenes, details and contrast overall looked superb to me.


The disk overall seemed to handle night scenes of the battle with dust extremely well, which usually is the areas I would assume would have issues.
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post #23672 of 25860 Old 03-02-2017, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNayAV View Post
Curious to hear what people have to say about Hacksaw Ridge. Wife and I watched the Blu-ray disk out of the Ultra HD Combo Pack (haven't switched my 103D in for a 203 yet) and Wife actually asked if something was wrong with the TV when noticed some banding. I don't want to give official score judgement yet as want to watch some other disks to see if something may have been messed with in my AV chain.


Issues were noticed in the seemingly frequent shots over someones shoulder focusing on the main character. The back of the person's head looked banded. I'm sure was stylistic intent to make camera focus on main character with the over shoulder person blurred but didn't seem handled well to me. Maybe one other shot with the sun showed banding, but issue was that once mentioned I looked for it in every shot that was similar.


Besides those few scenes, details and contrast overall looked superb to me.


The disk overall seemed to handle night scenes of the battle with dust extremely well, which usually is the areas I would assume would have issues.
I am going to assume you didn't read my review so here is the link to it:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...l#post51040761

As you will see, I did notice one instance of banding on the 1080p version, but it was eliminated on the UHD version.

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post #23673 of 25860 Old 03-02-2017, 06:10 AM
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Sorry should have mentioned, I did read your review Djoberg. Noticed you didn't mention banding in other scenes like I did on my set, only the sun coming up. I know different sets can deal with banding differently so curious to see what consensus ends up being.


Due to the extra banding I saw I was leaning towards Tier 1.0, so wouldn't be far off from your recommendation regardless.


Overall, I agree PQ was superb and movie in general was very good.
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post #23674 of 25860 Old 03-02-2017, 11:22 AM
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Celestial Method: Complete Collection

recommendation: Tier 1.5*

This anime release from Sentai Filmworks has been out for around a year. The entire series is spread out over two discs. Banding and other compression problems don't crop up in the AVC encode.

The animation itself is better than average for this kind of niche fare. Lighting effects and saturated colors give it a pop often lacking from regular anime.

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post #23675 of 25860 Old 03-02-2017, 05:27 PM
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Just rented Allied today and will watch it tomorrow before leaving for the weekend. I also bought Dr. Strange and Trolls and hope to watch them early next week. Reviews on all 3 are good (for PQ, that is).

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post #23676 of 25860 Old 03-02-2017, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JNayAV View Post
Curious to hear what people have to say about Hacksaw Ridge. Wife and I watched the Blu-ray disk out of the Ultra HD Combo Pack (haven't switched my 103D in for a 203 yet) and Wife actually asked if something was wrong with the TV when noticed some banding. I don't want to give official score judgement yet as want to watch some other disks to see if something may have been messed with in my AV chain.


Issues were noticed in the seemingly frequent shots over someones shoulder focusing on the main character. The back of the person's head looked banded. I'm sure was stylistic intent to make camera focus on main character with the over shoulder person blurred but didn't seem handled well to me. Maybe one other shot with the sun showed banding, but issue was that once mentioned I looked for it in every shot that was similar.


Besides those few scenes, details and contrast overall looked superb to me.


The disk overall seemed to handle night scenes of the battle with dust extremely well, which usually is the areas I would assume would have issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I am going to assume you didn't read my review so here is the link to it:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...l#post51040761

As you will see, I did notice one instance of banding on the 1080p version, but it was eliminated on the UHD version.
Hey fellas! Great to see everyone! Hiya Denny. Anyway, popped in my Hacksaw Ridge tonight (1080p) and was so shocked and take aback by the persistent banding (in faces mostly, shadowed skin areas, etc.) that I had to come in here, reset my password, and chime in. I don't know if this can possibly be allowed above Tier 1. Granted, I'm only 20 minutes in, but it was jaw-dropping for a new film of this calibre.

You see me reaching for my f****** wallet?!?
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post #23677 of 25860 Old 03-03-2017, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltasun View Post
Hey fellas! Great to see everyone! Hiya Denny. Anyway, popped in my Hacksaw Ridge tonight (1080p) and was so shocked and take aback by the persistent banding (in faces mostly, shadowed skin areas, etc.) that I had to come in here, reset my password, and chime in. I don't know if this can possibly be allowed above Tier 1. Granted, I'm only 20 minutes in, but it was jaw-dropping for a new film of this calibre.
Whoa! What a surprise to wake up this morning and to see your post! Hope this isn't just a casual "drop-in."

I don't know what to say about your experience with banding. You got me curious though so I read some "expert" reviews and there are a couple of reviewers who cite one or two instances of banding, and one who seemed to share your view (Matt from Do.Blu), but the majority either saw NONE or the one instance that I did on the 1080p version. It would be interesting to get your take after seeing the 4K version.

Our own "resident AVS reviewer" Ralph Potts saw no artifacts or anomalies on either disc. Here's his review (on both discs):

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-of...l#post50675889

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post #23678 of 25860 Old 03-03-2017, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deltasun View Post
Hey fellas! Great to see everyone! Hiya Denny. Anyway, popped in my Hacksaw Ridge tonight (1080p) and was so shocked and take aback by the persistent banding (in faces mostly, shadowed skin areas, etc.) that I had to come in here, reset my password, and chime in. I don't know if this can possibly be allowed above Tier 1. Granted, I'm only 20 minutes in, but it was jaw-dropping for a new film of this calibre.
It's good to see you drop by, Deltasun! You are always welcome around here.

Anyone know what Hacksaw Ridge was shot on?

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post #23679 of 25860 Old 03-03-2017, 11:57 AM
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Here is an excerpt from Bluray.com:

"Hacksaw Ridge is presented on Blu-ray courtesy of Lionsgate Films with an AVC encoded 1080p transfer in 2.39:1. Shot with a variety of digital cameras and finished at a 2K DI, this is a largely flawless looking transfer that offers consistently (and often pretty gruesomely) high levels of detail and fine detail."

Here is a line from Hi-Def Digest:

"Originally shot on the Arri Alexa and Red Epic Dragon cameras at near 4K resolution, the digital photography displays sharp definition in every scene."
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post #23680 of 25860 Old 03-03-2017, 05:04 PM
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Allied

I recall the days when we longed to see a "Reference Quality" Blu-ray; they were "few and far between," to be sure. Those "days" seem to be over; in fact, now it is rare to be placing a film anywhere but the top Two Tiers!

This one was PRISTINE (for the most part), with dazzling CLARITY (especially in outdoor, daytime scenes, which were plentiful) and astounding DEPTH (again, mostly in outdoor, daytime scenes). Night time scenes, or indoor scenes with low-lighting, featured rich BLACKS and finely-rendered SHADOW DETAILS.

DETAILS in general were superb! You could see every stitch in clothing; every nuance in foliage; every crack and stone in city streets; and the list goes on and on. The only disappointment was in "some" facial details, where there seemed to be a bit of smoothing on the female lead's creamy white face. But in fairness there were also some facial close-ups with excellent texture, including the female lead.

COLORS were bold and vibrant, especially (you know what I'm going to say) in outdoor, daytime scenes, but not limited to them. These were on display during the majority of the first half. Once the scene shifted to London, with its rather gloomy atmosphere and night time bombing, primaries were less frequent, though on occasion they did blossom, yielding sufficient EYE CANDY.

In considering the placement for this film, the first half would easily be a contender for .5 in the Top Tier. The second half may not have fared as well, but it still had many "reference shots" and the less-than-stellar scenes were still worthy of the top of Tier Gold. My vote goes for....

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (.75)

PS I've heard the 4K version boosts the details, colors and depth up a notch, so I would imagine that would land in the middle of Tier Blu.

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post #23681 of 25860 Old 03-04-2017, 12:05 PM
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I completely agree that Blu-ray's average picture quality for new productions has gotten better. Demo-level discs come out more and more often in the upper Tiers. Some of it is selection bias as studios figure out what looks great at 1080P resolution. But there have been legitimate areas of improvement. We are regularly getting more refined, less processed video all the time in stunning clarity. The drastic color timings that seemed to be a regular occurrence a decade ago are now more tempered.

Panther Girl of the Kongo

recommendation: Tier 4.5*

Olive Films licensed this 1955 Republic Pictures serial from Paramount's library. The black-and-white serial comes in a nice enough HD transfer from stable, consistent elements. Panther Girl of the Kongo offers a solid contrast and adequate black levels, if slightly blown out.

The good news is that the elements are in fine shape with virtually no obvious film damage. Its 1080P presentation is appropriately framed at 1.37:1 and doesn't exhibit significant digital processing.

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post #23682 of 25860 Old 03-05-2017, 03:33 AM
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Well another way of phrasing it would be: IF everything is a reference disk then nothing is a reference


Might have to raise the bar a little
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post #23683 of 25860 Old 03-05-2017, 03:40 PM
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Well another way of phrasing it would be: IF everything is a reference disk then nothing is a reference


Might have to raise the bar a little
IF, and that would be a BIG IF, everything was "reference," they would still be reference if they meet the criteria for reference as outlined on the Tier Rankings Thread.

Like I said in my post, "many" titles coming out are either Tier 0 (reference-quality) or Tier 1 (demo-quality).

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post #23684 of 25860 Old 03-07-2017, 10:58 AM
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The Martian

recommendation: Tier 0 (current location)

Great clarity, color, contrast, and black levels; quality was solid for the whole run-time.

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post #23685 of 25860 Old 03-07-2017, 01:11 PM
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Doctor Strange

Before viewing this Disney release, I read several reviews from respected reviewers (AVS Forum reviewer Ralph Potts, Hi-Def Digest and Blu-ray.com) and they all sang its praises. Well, don't add me to that list, for I was UNIMPRESSED, to say the least.

Except for several scenes where you are treated to some very good details and depth, the majority of this film has lackluster blacks (with very little depth and poor shadow details), consistent softness, and mediocre details. Much of what I've just stated is in every scene featuring excessive CGI, and a good percentage of the movie consists of CGI.

The scenes that were good (as alluded to above) were mostly in the first few scenes that took place in the hospital and on the streets of New York City. If this continued throughout the movie I would have definitely felt this was "demo-worthy" and would have opted for a 1.5 recommendation. Things being what they are, I'm forced to drop this into Tier Silver (and to think I had just commented on how most current titles are easily falling into the top two tiers). But I will be generous and vote for...

Tier Recommendation: Tier 2.0*

PS I didn't care that much for the movie either. Again, the reviewers I referred to liked both the movie AND the PQ. Just goes to prove the old adage, "Different strokes for different folks."

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post #23686 of 25860 Old 03-07-2017, 05:28 PM
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Moana
Tier Recommendation: 0.5
Very consistent throughout with beautiful colors and no issues that were seen. Blacks were rare though looked to be good when present.

Haven't watched enough of the top of tier 0 to give explicit placement but feel this one will end up near the top.

P.S. Also watched Doctor Strange in 3D. From the 3D don't expect it to rate to highly several scenes appeared to have blacks that appeared grey and lacking in fine details, but colors in magic sequences were strong. Definitely suggest the title as a 3D demo for the space scenes but not so much for PQ
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post #23687 of 25860 Old 03-07-2017, 06:18 PM
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Cell

This was a STRANGE (Stephen King) movie with VERY GOOD PQ!

In short, this film featured excellent DETAILS from beginning to apocalyptic end! I had read that the black levels left "something to be desired," but I found them more than acceptable, and the shadow details were also quite good. Speaking of details, facial texture was excellent and the director chose to zoom in often on the two male leads (Samuel Jackson and John Cusack) who are both aging and "showing their age!"

There were numerous "dark scenes," and as intimated above most of them fared well, but "some" of them faltered a bit resulting in a lack of detail and depth. Contrast was superb...flesh tones were spot-on...and clarity was impressive in every daytime scene. On occasion colors were very good, but in many scenes they were either muted or "blue/teal" (color-graded).

Thankfully this one was "back on track," meaning I'm able to assign this one to one of "top two tiers." Methinks it will land right here...

Tier Recommendation: Tier 1.5*

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post #23688 of 25860 Old 03-08-2017, 03:47 PM
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The Accountant

We have another Blu for the "Demo Shelf!"

It was obvious from the outset that this was shot on film, for a light layer of grain made its presence known and for the most part it never let up during this film's 2 hour running time. Thankfully it served to enhance detail except for a few instances where the sky looked quite "noisy."

What caught my attention over everything else was the level of DETAIL and this was especially true in well-lit interiors and daytime shots outdoors. Facial texture was generally superb, though there were a couple of shots where faces looked a bit "smoothed over."

Black levels were somewhat of a mixed bag; at times they were rich and velvety, and at other times they became a bit grayish. Having said that, the letter-boxed bars remained "pitch black" throughout.

My main "gripe" would be with the egregious color-grading in numerous scenes. It featured mainly "orange hues" with splashes of "teal" thrown in for good measure. This did not hinder detail, but the orange hues resulted in "orange flesh tones."

Clarity was topnotch, though there were a few shots where softness intruded and at those times depth suffered.

Tier Recommendation: 1.5*

PS I enjoyed the movie! I went into it not knowing anything about it except for a few glances at a trailer about 3-4 weeks ago. The pace may be too slow for some but this allowed a fair amount of character development, which I am a big fan of. There was "enough" action for my tastes.

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post #23689 of 25860 Old 03-09-2017, 05:34 PM
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Moana

Disney hit a HOME-RUN with this one; in fact, this is going to be stiff competition for the current #1 (The Good Dinosaur). Of course, I nominated The Secret Life of Pets for that spot a few weeks ago, so what I'm really saying is "this one will easily tie either of those two!!"

This one has it all...bold & vibrant COLORS...exquisite DETAILS...razor-sharp CLARITY...3D DEPTH...and uber-inky BLACKS. Speaking of BLACKS, JNayAV weighed in on this one a few days ago and said there wasn't much for blacks, but in truth this one has more blacks than the average animated film. We are treated to DEEP BLACKS in numerous night-time skies (while Moana & Maui are navigating the seas by the stars), and then there's a deep-sea scene with a huge crab who turns black and I'm here to tell you he was "OLED BLACK!!!" I should mention the letter-boxed bars were invisible from beginning to end; in other words, they were PITCH BLACK.

The first half of the movie featured "the home island" of Moana and it truly looked like a tropical paradise. What impressed me the most was the ultra-green foliage of palm trees (and other vegetation) and the turquoise blue waters of the beautiful sea. We used to have an AVS member visiting this site with the username of GeekyGlassesGirl who LOVED movies with OCEAN WATERS in them; she would be absolutely mesmerized by this animated marvel!

Another thing that blew me away was the use of lighting, whether it was a moon-lit night, or a fire, or rays of sunshine, they were so realistic. We talk about "photo-realism" and this one was chock-full of that feature, not just with the use of light, but with finely-rendered texture in rocks, hair, trees, etc, etc.

I'll stop here and get to my nomination. Actually, I've already given that away....

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (tied with the current #1 and The Secret Life of Pets)

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post #23690 of 25860 Old 03-10-2017, 05:17 AM
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Also helps that Moana is a generally good movie. Don't have to try to stay awake to get to the good PQ.
Had a feeling other's might chime in and rank it #1 , it would be my top choice as well, just haven't seen the other top rated animated movies to judge. Wife is a huge fan of Disney animated films, so when reviews said this one was good, we had to see it.


I was most impressed by the overall contrast. The tropical scenes looked like a bright tropical island but not overblown which seems the norm these days. Like Djoberg said the crab scene was a lesson in deep black with bright color contrast is a sight to behold, very nice on my E6. Also agree with the comment on the water, those are some really nice blues.


If Disney ever gets around to releasing 4K with HDR may have to double dip, but I'm not sure what could be improved here.
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post #23691 of 25860 Old 03-10-2017, 06:10 AM
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I haven't seen the whole film on BD yet, but the quick glimse I've seen Moana looks like one of the very best reference tier 0 discs ever made. Insane clarity, detail and sharpness to the image.
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post #23692 of 25860 Old 03-10-2017, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JNayAV View Post
Also helps that Moana is a generally good movie. Don't have to try to stay awake to get to the good PQ.
Had a feeling other's might chime in and rank it #1 , it would be my top choice as well, just haven't seen the other top rated animated movies to judge. Wife is a huge fan of Disney animated films, so when reviews said this one was good, we had to see it.


I was most impressed by the overall contrast. The tropical scenes looked like a bright tropical island but not overblown which seems the norm these days. Like Djoberg said the crab scene was a lesson in deep black with bright color contrast is a sight to behold, very nice on my E6. Also agree with the comment on the water, those are some really nice blues.


If Disney ever gets around to releasing 4K with HDR may have to double dip, but I'm not sure what could be improved here.
I agree 110% with every point made, including the fact that it's a good movie. This is saying something, for it's unusually long for an animated movie (107 minutes). I too would be tempted to double-dip if this was released on 4K, but like you said, "I'm not sure what could be improved here." Having said that, there are other excellent animated titles in 1080p that WERE improved upon in its 4K counterpart. A good example of that would be The Secret Life of Pets, where the colors had a little more POP, the texture in animals was more refined, and there were better details in objects as well.

On a side note, glad to read that you've got the LG OLED E6. That's a great choice for a Flat Panel display which I considered (along with the B6) but in the end I went with the Sony 940D because I wanted at least a 70" screen. Of course there was the G6 77" but then I would have had to sell my house to get it and then I wouldn't have any place to put and view my tv!
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post #23693 of 25860 Old 03-11-2017, 06:11 AM
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Doctor Strange did appear to have greyish / brownish blacks in the cinema, even for being a DCI 4K projector. Loved the visual effects though, will have to wait and see what it looks like on my Kuro to judge though
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post #23694 of 25860 Old 03-11-2017, 08:39 AM
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Pirates of the Carribean: On Stranger Tides

Fantastic picture quality that is razor sharp, great detail and inky blacks all over the place I think I remember PotC 2 3 having better picture (reference quality) but I suppose that was because back in 2007 there weren't that many great discs like there are today.


Gold quality for sure

Tier recommendation: 1.25
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post #23695 of 25860 Old 03-11-2017, 08:46 AM
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Gone Girl


Hmm didn't fancy this picture too much. One of the few discs where my Kuro didn't render complete blacks... I could tell the difference from black bars and black areas in the movie which is new for me. Not bad PQ, but I was annoyed my the minor instances if imperfect blacks. Silver sounds right to me.


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post #23696 of 25860 Old 03-12-2017, 03:20 PM
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Trolls

Would you believe.....we have ANOTHER contender for "King of the Blu-ray Hill?!"

I'm not kidding, this one has the most AMAZING COLORS I've seen in an animated movie...they are DAZZLING, and they're on display for nearly every minute of its 85 minute running time. At times they literally SPARKLE.

And then there's the TEXTURE! Again, I can't recall seeing this much texture in the animated genre...texture in the skin and hair of the "Trolls" and the "Bergens," and texture in everything else!

Finally, there's DEPTH. This one POPS with near 3D DIMENSIONALITY.

This one doesn't have the photo-realism that is found in The Good Dinosaur or Moana, but then those titles don't have the colors or texture of Trolls. The Secret Life of Pets had "some" of the colors and texture, but not to the same degree.

I think you are seeing the "dilemma" that I'm facing here, for methinks we might have a real battle between these four (I say this, even after giving the nod to The Secret Life of Pets a couple of weeks ago). I'm going to play it safe (for now)....

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (tied with Moana, The Secret Life of Pets & The Good Dinosaur)

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post #23697 of 25860 Old 03-13-2017, 07:27 AM
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Trolls

Would you believe.....we have ANOTHER contender for "King of the Blu-ray Hill?!"

I'm not kidding, this one has the most AMAZING COLORS I've seen in an animated movie...they are DAZZLING, and they're on display for nearly every minute of its 85 minute running time. At times they literally SPARKLE.

And then there's the TEXTURE! Again, I can't recall seeing this much texture in the animated genre...texture in the skin and hair of the "Trolls" and the "Bergens," and texture in everything else!

Finally, there's DEPTH. This one POPS with near 3D DIMENSIONALITY.

This one doesn't have the photo-realism that is found in The Good Dinosaur or Moana, but then those titles doesn't have the colors or texture of Trolls. The Secret Life of Pets had "some" of the colors and texture, but not to the same degree.

I think you are seeing the "dilemma" that I'm facing here, for methinks we might have a real battle between these 4 four (I say this, even after giving the nod to The Secret Life of Pets a couple of weeks ago). I'm going to play it safe (for now)....

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (tied with Moana, The Secret Life of Pets & The Good Dinosaur)
Having just watched Moana and Trolls almost back to back, I'd put Moana above it in terms of PQ. But I did like the fact that Trolls has nearly everything made out of "felt."

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post #23698 of 25860 Old 03-13-2017, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by fredxr2d2 View Post
Having just watched Moana and Trolls almost back to back, I'd put Moana above it in terms of PQ. But I did like the fact that Trolls has nearly everything made out of "felt."
You need to make a post stating that and it can be as short as you want to make it. I have no problem with Moana being on the top, for all four that I mentioned are simply amazing. I think we "may" be reaching the point where animation can't get any better.

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post #23699 of 25860 Old 03-13-2017, 09:03 AM
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Moana

Tier 0 (probably in the top 5 at the very least)
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Tim S.
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post #23700 of 25860 Old 03-13-2017, 09:03 AM
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You need to make a post stating that and it can be as short as you want to make it. I have no problem with Moana being on the top, for all four that I mentioned are simply amazing. I think we "may" be reaching the point where animation can't get any better.
I was also blown away by the "Piper" short on Finding Dory. If you have that blu, take a look at the PQ on that short. WOW.

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