The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 797 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23881 of 26433 Old 07-21-2017, 05:16 AM
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Kong: Skull Island


Slightly disappointed with this movie... overall its still very, very good but the colours are muted with too much of an orange tint throughout the picture. A bit too much film grain too in my humble opinion but the CGI is really good and Kong himself looks amazing.
Watched this movie with my best friend whom I've enjoyed probably 100 movies together with on my Kuro and he says there wasn't any difference. He didn't think black were blacker, contrast higher, colours more accurate or picture sharper, but the movie looked freaking awesome still. I was convinced it was the source material at fault and after a few IMAX 15/70 shots of Interstellar my friend was swayed. In conclusion definitely not reference material on blu-ray as the movie made by OLED fail to impress my close friend. But still on the lower end of Tier 1.



Tier recommendation: 1.75
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post #23882 of 26433 Old 07-21-2017, 05:19 AM
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Arrival


Sheeehs! Can you say "brown levels" ?! I've just spent the last couple of weeks enjoying inky absolute black levels that look black holes or venta black material, then I put this on and the black levels look like a pit of mud. unacceptable brownish black levels in most, if not all of the mll scenes.

Picture was quite grainy and didn't look sharp either. I'd call this tier 3, but the flash back scenes looked really good, much better than the present timeline scenes.

Tier recommendation: 2.75
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post #23883 of 26433 Old 07-21-2017, 02:47 PM
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The Great Wall

WOOW! What a movie. Finally a movie truly worthy of my new display I've been watching a **** load of content lately and this is definitely one of the best discs I've fed my TV. The picture is ridiculously sharp with huge amounts of detail in every shot. the CGI is world class and second to none in realism and animation... Perhaps only Life of Pi and AVATAR has more realistic "better" looking CGI. The explosions with smoke and fire popped out of the screen (I'm amazed by the SDR version, I wonder how much the orangey/red flames stuck out in HDR?) not to mention the superb colours of red archers, blue female soldiers, and the purple + yellow warriors. Loads of 3D-esque pop to the wonderful colours that left me wondering just how much better it could look in HDR with 10 bit colours, DCI-P3 gamut and HDR peak highlights of 600++ nits. Skin tones, colour grading, facial details, image clarity all top notch.

My best buddy watched this with me and fully approved picture quality... "mind blowing"


Even in measly old 1080p/8 bit/rec.709/SDR this movie is by all means reference quality.


Not all parts of the movie were equally good.. some of the outdoor landscape scenes had some really blocky looking CGI / soft spots that didn't look as good as i.e. the monsters did. its Tier Blu, but somewhere in the bottom quarter, while I'm sure the 4K/HDR disc is somewhere in the top quarter.


TIER recommendation: 0 (.75)
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post #23884 of 26433 Old 07-22-2017, 12:50 PM
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SnellTHX,

Thanks for the three reviews!

I agree wholeheartedly with you on your placement of Arrival and The Great Wall, but I respectfully disagree with your 1.75 placement of Kong: Skull Island. Having said that, in fairness I did NOT see the 1080p version, but I would be very surprised if it was a whole tier apart from the 4K version (I gave the 4K version a .75 ranking in Tier 0). The "orange hues," though somewhat "distracting," had no effect on details or depth, so I decided not to penalize it at all for the color-grading. As far as the "grain" goes, IMHO it only served to "enhance details" and give it a beautiful "filmic-look," so there again there was no penalization factored into my final score.

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post #23885 of 26433 Old 07-22-2017, 01:55 PM
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Iron Giant, The (Signature Edition)

recommendation: Tier 1.0*

A combination of hand-drawn and CGI, this film shines in all aspects. Clean lines and well presented colors are in all scenes. This was given a strong encode as I saw no color bands or macro-blocking.
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post #23886 of 26433 Old 07-22-2017, 01:58 PM
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@ Denny Anytime buddy.

I guess Kong came down to personal preferences. I don't like film grain in my movies, well at least not most of the time. Looks too much like compression artefacts in most cases so I've always preferred "clean" and crystal sharp images. i.e. John Wick 2, Great Wall.


and the orange hue / colour grading was obviously a director's choice but one I didn't like too much. I don't know maybe 1.75 a little bit harsh could be 1.5

but its all down to personal preference as we subjectively review image quality.

And thanks for reminding me.. I need to get a 4K disc player soon... I've been living in the 1080p world for the past 9 years so I'm going to have to swap out my entire ecosystem!
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post #23887 of 26433 Old 07-23-2017, 08:20 AM
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Life

recommendation: Tier 2.0*

Nothing PQ-wise jumps out. Alien-like (the movie) terror does. Colors, including flesh tones, are muted throughout, presumably from the dim lighting on the International Space Staion (ISS) set. It's a 2.35:1 1080p Blu-ray (there's a 4k too), and black bars on my 65" plasma almost vanished in the deep-black opening star field as the Martian sample satellite approaches the ISS. Image detail appears modest. Arri digital cameras, including the Alexa 65, were used, providing both 6.4k and 3.4k Arriraw formats, boiled down to a 3.2K DI master for the 1080p. Buy or rent few discs here but this is a nice addition, content-wise, to my SF collection. Viewed at 8' on a pro Panny VX100.-- John

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post #23888 of 26433 Old 07-23-2017, 10:50 AM
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So I have not yet bought an HDR-capable display. However, I will be considering it for some time in the next 6-12 months. What I was going to do in preparation was to start buying all of my movies as the UHD versions of movies that also come with a BR copy (kinda like how a lot of BRs come with a DVD copy as well). Then I can enjoy the BR until I do upgrade and since I'll be keeping my current displays anyways, I'll be able to continue using them afterwards.

If I buy a '4K UHD' disc, is it for sure going to have HDR and/or DV? From what I'm gathering from reading around, DV was only newly released last month with DM2, so any released before then will not have it? However, will they at least have "basic" HDR?

For instance, this one clearly says HDR on the cover: https://smile.amazon.com/Batman-Supe...vs+superman+4k

Others, like this one, mention HDR in the 'Special Features' section: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01JAQES02?psc=1

The reason I ask is that I do NOT care to buy a UHD disc simply for the "upgrade" in resolution as my viewing distances do not benefit from the resolution aspect and HDR is the sole reason for my desire to get a new display. The HDR/DV aspect is where I would like the added benefit, so I don't want to buy the 4K UHD version unless it has some form of HDR along with it.

Thanks

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post #23889 of 26433 Old 07-23-2017, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason View Post
Life

recommendation: Tier 2.0*

Nothing PQ-wise jumps out. Alien-like (the movie) terror does. Colors, including flesh tones, are muted throughout, presumably from the dim lighting on the International Space Staion (ISS) set. It's a 2.35:1 1080p Blu-ray (there's a 4k too), and black bars on my 65" plasma almost vanished in the deep-black opening star field as the Martian sample satellite approaches the ISS. Image detail appears modest. Arri digital cameras, including the Alexa 65, were used, providing both 6.4k and 3.4k Arriraw formats, boiled down to a 3.2K DI master for the 1080p. Buy or rent few discs here but this is a nice addition, content-wise, to my SF collection. Viewed at 8' on a pro Panny VX100.-- John
Hey John,

I was somewhat surprised by you saying that "nothing PQ-wise jumps out," for as you may have read in my review I thought the facial texture was exemplary (some of the best I've seen), blacks were quite good (after the opening scene), and whites were brilliant (in other words, it had excellent contrast). I did see some definite "inconsistency" when it came to details and depth, but overall it was at least worthy of Tier 1. I gave it a 1.25 but I would be willing to go as low as 1.75. It was be a travesty to put it any lower than that. Just my 2 cents worth!

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post #23890 of 26433 Old 07-23-2017, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickkent View Post
If I buy a '4K UHD' disc, is it for sure going to have HDR and/or DV? From what I'm gathering from reading around, DV was only newly released last month with DM2, so any released before then will not have it? However, will they at least have "basic" HDR?

For instance, this one clearly says HDR on the cover: https://smile.amazon.com/Batman-Supe...vs+superman+4k

Others, like this one, mention HDR in the 'Special Features' section: https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01JAQES02?psc=1

The reason I ask is that I do NOT care to buy a UHD disc simply for the "upgrade" in resolution as my viewing distances do not benefit from the resolution aspect and HDR is the sole reason for my desire to get a new display. The HDR/DV aspect is where I would like the added benefit, so I don't want to buy the 4K UHD version unless it has some form of HDR along with it.

Thanks
I currently own 30 4K UHD titles and all of them have HDR. It is called "HDR10" in contrast to the "Dolby Vision" version of HDR. I would NOT refer to it as "basic," for it really does a good job of boosting contrast levels (brilliant whites and deep blacks) and adding more punch to colors (because of its deeper color gamut). Some that have compared the two HDR formats in an A/B testing environment have stated they see little to no difference in many titles; others say that Dolby Vision has a definite edge. The bottom line: You will be pleased with either format and any 4K blu-rays that you purchase will have one or the other.

I should add one more thing. There are some Blu-ray releases where there is no apparent difference between the UHD/HDR version and its 1080p counterpart. This is rare, but it does happen. I also add that if you end up getting an LCD/LED display, you can count on there being "some" light-bleeding into the letter-boxed bars when there are bright objects next to them, and there will also be some blooming/halos within the picture. It's just the "nature of the beast" when it comes to that technology. If you only want a 65" display (or smaller) I would go with an OLED, for you will have none of those problems with that technology because each pixel is self-illuminating (self-emissive).
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post #23891 of 26433 Old 07-23-2017, 02:35 PM
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^^^^^^^^^

I should not have been so dogmatic when I stated that every 4K Blu-ray will have HDR, for in the early days of 4K UHD Blu-rays, there were releases without HDR content. That may still be the case today, but I would think it would be quite rare.

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post #23892 of 26433 Old 07-23-2017, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I currently own 30 4K UHD titles and all of them have HDR. It is called "HDR10" in contrast to the "Dolby Vision" version of HDR. I would NOT refer to it as "basic," for it really does a good job of boosting contrast levels (brilliant whites and deep blacks) and adding more punch to colors (because of its deeper color gamut). Some that have compared the two HDR formats in an A/B testing environment have stated they see little to no difference in many titles; others say that Dolby Vision has a definite edge. The bottom line: You will be pleased with either format and any 4K blu-rays that you purchase will have one or the other.

I should add one more thing. There are some Blu-ray releases where there is no apparent difference between the UHD/HDR version and its 1080p counterpart. This is rare, but it does happen. I also add that if you end up getting an LCD/LED display, you can count on there being "some" light-bleeding into the letter-boxed bars when there are bright objects next to them, and there will also be some blooming/halos within the picture. It's just the "nature of the beast" when it comes to that technology. If you only want a 65" display (or smaller) I would go with an OLED, for you will have none of those problems with that technology because each pixel is self-illuminating (self-emissive).
Yeah, I did not mean basic in a derogatory way (I used quotes to try to denote that, lol), but DV is supposed to be at least as good from what I have read.

Yeah, I will likely be going with OLED. After having plasmas for several years now, I don't think I could go back to LCD, lol. I'm too used to the perfect viewing angles and I take advantage of them a lot, so it would be quite the adjustment going back to LCD. Plus, my 8500s are more than bright enough (for me), even in my bright living room (I have 6 windows), so the extra brightness that the LCDs can deliver aren't really something I want/need. Honestly, I'm still quite wowed by watching content on my plasma (just got them cal'd by D-Nice too) and felt no need to upgrade due to 4K, but HDR has definitely had me curious for a little while now and the prices that these OLEDs are going for now and probably lower as the year goes on makes it quite tempting, haha. I wish there was a way to get the expanded color gamut on my plasmas, but oh well.

I appreciate your helpful response! Looks like I will go ahead with my plan of buying the UHD movies now and enjoy them once I get a HDR-capable display!

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post #23893 of 26433 Old 07-23-2017, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sickkent View Post
Yeah, I did not mean basic in a derogatory way (I used quotes to try to denote that, lol), but DV is supposed to be at least as good from what I have read.

Yeah, I will likely be going with OLED. After having plasmas for several years now, I don't think I could go back to LCD, lol. I'm too used to the perfect viewing angles and I take advantage of them a lot, so it would be quite the adjustment going back to LCD. Plus, my 8500s are more than bright enough (for me), even in my bright living room (I have 6 windows), so the extra brightness that the LCDs can deliver aren't really something I want/need. Honestly, I'm still quite wowed by watching content on my plasma (just got them cal'd by D-Nice too) and felt no need to upgrade due to 4K, but HDR has definitely had me curious for a little while now and the prices that these OLEDs are going for now and probably lower as the year goes on makes it quite tempting, haha. I wish there was a way to get the expanded color gamut on my plasmas, but oh well.

I appreciate your helpful response! Looks like I will go ahead with my plan of buying the UHD movies now and enjoy them once I get a HDR-capable display!
I too had a plasma (the Pioneer 60" Kuro Elite PRO-151) and was spoiled by the almost-perfect-blacks and the excellent viewing angles. I wanted to buy an OLED but I wanted at least a 70" display so I went with the Sony 940D LCD/LED 75" display. For the most part I'm more than satisfied, for the blacks are normally as good or better than my Kuro (except for the light bleed, halos & blooming). Of course the viewing angle is bad (after you go 25-30% off axis the contrast starts to wash out), but 95% of the time it's just me watching it so I'm always in the "sweet spot" where the contrast is perfect.

Again, if a 65" display is acceptable to you, you will be more-than-satisfied with an OLED. And then you can have D-Nice calibrate it, for I know he's replaced some of his Kuros with LG OLEDs.

Okay, it's time for our "regular broadcasting" to resume.
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post #23894 of 26433 Old 07-23-2017, 07:08 PM
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Stormy Monday

recommendation: Tier 3.5*

Arrow Video licensed Stormy Monday from MGM and apparently utilized MGM's existing 2010 HD master. If you have seen older MGM catalog transfers, they weren't great back then and time has only made them look more dated in picture quality. Stormy Monday's older telecine transfer is soft with occasional processing. The elements are in fine condition but a new image harvest from the same elements would pull far more detail and clarity out of them.

The cinematography by Roger Deakins is best described as gritty for the noirish thriller. Colors are mildly blown out. The grain structure is fuzzy in appearance. A few scenes have crushed black levels, obscuring shadow delineation.

Stormy Monday is a movie in need of a new once-over by a colorist. This is a serviceable HD presentation that probably doesn't represent Stormy Monday perfectly well on Blu-ray.

Blu-ray Picture Quality Tiers (updated through July 13, 2017)
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post #23895 of 26433 Old 07-24-2017, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Hey John,

I was somewhat surprised by you saying that "nothing PQ-wise jumps out," for as you may have read in my review I thought the facial texture was exemplary (some of the best I've seen), blacks were quite good (after the opening scene), and whites were brilliant (in other words, it had excellent contrast). I did see some definite "inconsistency" when it came to details and depth, but overall it was at least worthy of Tier 1. I gave it a 1.25 but I would be willing to go as low as 1.75. It was be a travesty to put it any lower than that. Just my 2 cents worth!

Denny
Appreciate your comments. I'd certainly accede to your expertise comparing BR picture qualities, especially trying to provide decimal breakdowns of the main devisons. Couldn't see putting Life in the top two PQ brackets. Searched for another review but yours didn't appear, so stuck in the asterisk. I did recall one of your recent reviews citing poor contrast of a star field but thought it may have been another SF production since mine was excellent contrast-wise for, presumably, a CGI sequence. -- John
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post #23896 of 26433 Old 07-24-2017, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by John Mason View Post
Appreciate your comments. I'd certainly accede to your expertise comparing BR picture qualities, especially trying to provide decimal breakdowns of the main devisons. Couldn't see putting Life in the top two PQ brackets. Searched for another review but yours didn't appear, so stuck in the asterisk. I did recall one of your recent reviews citing poor contrast of a star field but thought it may have been another SF production since mine was excellent contrast-wise for, presumably, a CGI sequence. -- John
Here's my review John:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...l#post53878865

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post #23897 of 26433 Old 07-24-2017, 08:57 AM
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^^^^^^^

Here is the review by our own resident reviewer Ralph Potts:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-of...l#post53682737

I would LOVE to see the UHD version for he gives it a perfect score of 100. He gave the 1080p a score of 88 but his review of it is quite positive, with the exception of "flesh tones" and some "softness" in various scenes.

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post #23898 of 26433 Old 07-25-2017, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^^^

Here is the review by our own resident reviewer Ralph Potts:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-of...l#post53682737

I would LOVE to see the UHD version for he gives it a perfect score of 100. He gave the 1080p a score of 88 but his review of it is quite positive, with the exception of "flesh tones" and some "softness" in various scenes.
Here is the review by our own resident reviewer Ralph Potts:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-of...l#post53682737

I would LOVE to see the UHD version for he gives it a perfect score of 100. He gave the 1080p a score of 88 but his review of it is quite positive, with the exception of "flesh tones" and some "softness" in various scenes.[/Quote]
*********************

Thanks. Hadn't read Ralph's review until just now. The 1080p and UHD PQ comparison is what I imagined as I wrote my 1080p viewing. Hope someone starts providing measured-resolution comparisons between noticeable 1080p and UHD image detail differences. Apparently it would require both 1080p and 4k UHD displays for accuracy, although measured-detail upconversions to 4k versus 'true' 4k (non-3.2k DIs) would be interesting, too (one UHD set for both). Haven't scrutinized UHD fine details closely for measurements yet but, compared to my 2014 1080p-only measurements, a magnifying lens and UHD test disc with suitable multiburst patterns (or a signal generator) would be needed. -- John

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post #23899 of 26433 Old 07-25-2017, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by John Mason View Post
Thanks. Hadn't read Ralph's review until just now. The 1080p and UHD PQ comparison is what I imagined as I wrote my 1080p viewing. Hope someone starts providing measured-resolution comparisons between noticeable 1080p and UHD image detail differences. Apparently it would require both 1080p and 4k UHD displays for accuracy, although measured-detail upconversions to 4k versus 'true' 4k (non-3.2k DIs) would be interesting, too (one UHD set for both). Haven't scrutinized UHD fine details closely for measurements yet but, compared to my 2014 1080p-only measurements, a magnifying lens and UHD test disc with suitable multiburst patterns (or a signal generator) would be needed. -- John
I have found that it is extremely "tricky" in trying to compare a 1080p release with its UHD/HDR counterpart, especially if you don't watch one right after the other. If you had the thought of using two different displays it even more of a problem, for MOST people would not have those resources at their disposal. I am thankful for reviews like Ralph Potts and Matt Paprocki (at Do.Blu.com) for comparing the two, as well as some at Hi-Def Digest and Blu-ray.com. I don't believe they are using two different displays, but it seems they are watching them close together.

I have stated before that it is a mixed bag when comparing the two, for "some" UHD releases have a marked improvement, while "others" look almost identical to the 1080p version.

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post #23900 of 26433 Old 07-25-2017, 02:03 PM
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^^^Yes, Ralph's review suggest a marked difference in this case. A UHD test disc and lens shouldn't be difficult. But picking the right adjectives to describe significant differences seems inadequate. Measured effective resolutions would help for either 1080p/UHD two-set setups or UHD only. Sean McCarthy's tech paper details problems with upconversions, but his computer-analysis solution isn't avaiiable AFAIK--and even geekier.-- John

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post #23901 of 26433 Old 07-25-2017, 03:23 PM
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Has anyone seen the Magnificent Seven? I saw 40 minutes of it at a friends house (not on physical disc) and the black levels were god awful! they appeared very muddy and brownish but overall image looked pretty good... judging by what I saw its not a disc I would buy, but then again it was streamed version I saw those first 40 minutes of.
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post #23902 of 26433 Old 07-25-2017, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by sickkent View Post
Yeah, I did not mean basic in a derogatory way (I used quotes to try to denote that, lol), but DV is supposed to be at least as good from what I have read.

Yeah, I will likely be going with OLED. After having plasmas for several years now, I don't think I could go back to LCD, lol. I'm too used to the perfect viewing angles and I take advantage of them a lot, so it would be quite the adjustment going back to LCD. Plus, my 8500s are more than bright enough (for me), even in my bright living room (I have 6 windows), so the extra brightness that the LCDs can deliver aren't really something I want/need. Honestly, I'm still quite wowed by watching content on my plasma (just got them cal'd by D-Nice too) and felt no need to upgrade due to 4K, but HDR has definitely had me curious for a little while now and the prices that these OLEDs are going for now and probably lower as the year goes on makes it quite tempting, haha. I wish there was a way to get the expanded color gamut on my plasmas, but oh well.

I appreciate your helpful response! Looks like I will go ahead with my plan of buying the UHD movies now and enjoy them once I get a HDR-capable display!

if you have a last generation Panasonic, Samsung or Kuro plasma then I generally an upgrade not necessary if you are primarily watching 1080p SDR content (which most of us are). Those last plasmas were really, really great and it annoys me so much that plasma died. I mean just imagine how good 2017 plasmas would have been if manufacturers just splashed all their R&D money into the technology with no regard for profits, environment regulations etc etc.

In my opinion the LG X6 OLEDs are the first displays to 'dethrone' the Kuro KRP 500 and Panasonic VT60/ZT60. (perhaps maybe the 2015 CZ950 OLED, but that thing cost €11,000 in this country...)
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post #23903 of 26433 Old 07-25-2017, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
Has anyone seen the Magnificent Seven? I saw 40 minutes of it at a friends house (not on physical disc) and the black levels were god awful! they appeared very muddy and brownish but overall image looked pretty good... judging by what I saw its not a disc I would buy, but then again it was streamed version I saw those first 40 minutes of.
I not only SAW IT, but I also REVIEWED IT. And guess what, I agree with you concerning "some" of the black levels, especially on the UHD/HDR version. Here is my review:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...l#post49249089

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post #23904 of 26433 Old 07-25-2017, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
if you have a last generation Panasonic, Samsung or Kuro plasma then I generally an upgrade not necessary if you are primarily watching 1080p SDR content (which most of us are). Those last plasmas were really, really great and it annoys me so much that plasma died. I mean just imagine how good 2017 plasmas would have been if manufacturers just splashed all their R&D money into the technology with no regard for profits, environment regulations etc etc.
I agree with you 120%!!

At one time I cried from the rooftop..."Long live Plasma!" But it was doomed to fail because if its superior technology, its high manufacturing cost, and a failing market that refused to support it. I longed for the day when they would make a really large plasma display (i.e. 75" or larger) with 4K technology and a wide color gamut (now I would also add "High Dynamic Range" to that list). But it wasn't meant to be and we must be content with the current crop of OLEDs and some of the "high end LCD/LEDs." Perhaps, with MicroLEDs on the horizon, we may eventually reach "Video Nirvana." In saying that, I'm sure that even that technology would disappoint us in some way and thus we would be echoing the same nine words we hear all the time, "There is no such thing as a PERFECT display." (Yet in its day, plasma came pretty close!!!)
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post #23905 of 26433 Old 07-25-2017, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
if you have a last generation Panasonic, Samsung or Kuro plasma then I generally an upgrade not necessary if you are primarily watching 1080p SDR content (which most of us are). Those last plasmas were really, really great and it annoys me so much that plasma died. I mean just imagine how good 2017 plasmas would have been if manufacturers just splashed all their R&D money into the technology with no regard for profits, environment regulations etc etc.

In my opinion the LG X6 OLEDs are the first displays to 'dethrone' the Kuro KRP 500 and Panasonic VT60/ZT60. (perhaps maybe the 2015 CZ950 OLED, but that thing cost €11,000 in this country...)
Yeah, I agree with that. I am perfectly happy with the 8500 and it's performance in SDR. If I could upgrade it to have WCG/HDR, then I would happily do that and not care. I am interested in WCG/HDR, though. However, I'm definitely not in a rush to buy a new display. But it seems like this year or next year would be a decent year to buy. I've started buying HDR movies and I'm probably going to look at getting an Oppo 203 at some point too in preparation for the HDR TV. Might wait for Black Friday, not sure yet. I too wish that plasma had continued on. Part of the reason, aside from the obvious drawbacks and my preference for the benefits of emissive tech, that I probably won't buy an LCD again is because I hate how it basically ended plasma despite being the largely inferior tech (IMO) and I'd rather support what I view as the superior tech in OLED/emissive, lol.

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post #23906 of 26433 Old 07-26-2017, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I not only SAW IT, but I also REVIEWED IT. And guess what, I agree with you concerning "some" of the black levels, especially on the UHD/HDR version. Here is my review:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-bl...l#post49249089
Thanks for the review. So it looks like we sort of agree then. I thought those blacks were terrible, but

A ) I did not view it on my own display
B ) it was not a physical disc and we all know UHD-BD > BD > 4K streaming > 2K streaming etc...


Such a shame the black levels are poor even with the UHD version.

But how could you still give it reference with those blacks!! Are there only a few dark scenes in the movie? I only watched the first 40 minutes and couldn't bear to watch the rest, I felt like I was slaughtering the experience.
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post #23907 of 26433 Old 07-26-2017, 02:00 AM
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Originally Posted by sickkent View Post
Yeah, I agree with that. I am perfectly happy with the 8500 and it's performance in SDR. If I could upgrade it to have WCG/HDR, then I would happily do that and not care. I am interested in WCG/HDR, though. However, I'm definitely not in a rush to buy a new display. But it seems like this year or next year would be a decent year to buy. I've started buying HDR movies and I'm probably going to look at getting an Oppo 203 at some point too in preparation for the HDR TV. Might wait for Black Friday, not sure yet. I too wish that plasma had continued on. Part of the reason, aside from the obvious drawbacks and my preference for the benefits of emissive tech, that I probably won't buy an LCD again is because I hate how it basically ended plasma despite being the largely inferior tech (IMO) and I'd rather support what I view as the superior tech in OLED/emissive, lol.


Yeah I imagine a 12 bit HDR/DV compatible 100% DCI-P3 4K 65" Samsung M8500 plasma or VT100 plasma would totally kick ass with flawless motion resolution/handling and probably infinite contrast / 0 nit blacks like OLED! Its amazing how plasmas from 2013 (and 2008 in the legendary Kuro's case) can hold up so well compared LCD-LED.


I mean try looking at 2013 LED-LCDs and see how far the technology has improved by 2017.

Better yet, look at a 2008 LCD like the Sony XBR-8 and compare it to the Sony ZD9 FALD-LCD... two entire worlds apart in terms of picture.
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post #23908 of 26433 Old 07-26-2017, 09:04 AM
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Thanks for the review. So it looks like we sort of agree then. I thought those blacks were terrible, but how could you still give it reference with those blacks!! Are there only a few dark scenes in the movie? I only watched the first 40 minutes and couldn't bear to watch the rest, I felt like I was slaughtering the experience.
I never would have even considered a Tier 0 placement if the blacks had been consistently bad all the way through. If memory serves me it was only a few brief shots where the blacks were murky. The rest of the title was amazingly good and thus this is one of those rare times where you choose to ignore the isolated flaws. I obviously did not see what you saw, for if there had been numerous scenes in the first 40 minutes with terrible blacks I would have penalized the title quite a bit.

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post #23909 of 26433 Old 07-28-2017, 09:44 AM
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If.... (Criterion)

recommendation: Tier 3.5*

Another film that looks to be locked into a ranking based on the limitations of the original photography. Filmed using mostly natural lighting, high speed film had to be used and even in some cases color film didn't perform so those scenes are black and white. The makers liked the look of the early black and white scenes so they interspersed others throughout the film. Colors are muted for the most part but pop here and there and contrast is generally good. Details are soft throughout owing to the aforementioned filming techniques, black and white scenes are equally soft. The transfer is good, no limitations noted.

Stars Malcolm McDowell as the original British boarding school bad boy before landing his iconic part in A Clockwork Orange.

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post #23910 of 26433 Old 07-28-2017, 06:20 PM
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recommendation: Tier 1.75*

Discotek Media, a fairly small anime distributor on Blu-ray, did a rather nice job with this 2015 television production. All twelve episodes of the complete series did land on a single BD-50, though there aren't any deleterious consequences for the smooth AVC video. This is rather simple, clean animation without a lot of motion, albeit in a colorful palette.

The presentation is technically flawless. There isn't an extraordinary amount of detail in the solidly colored backgrounds but character designs are given extra attention for consistency.

Newer anime productions on Blu-ray have a punchier contrast and more vibrant colors these days. 1080P resolution is often the intended production target for material of this nature. Their production budgets seem to be the limiting factor in where many of them end up ranked on the PQ Tiers.

Blu-ray Picture Quality Tiers (updated through July 13, 2017)
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