The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 859 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25741 of 25820 Old 06-18-2019, 06:44 AM
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AQUAMAN (4K)


Well this movie has been praised by absolutely every, ranking among many top lists and some users (of this forum) have stated it's the best picture quality they've ever seen. and while it looks absolutely excellent, it doesn't rank among the best in my opinion. The image is bright, punchy and very contrast(y) with good depth. And it is presented screen-filling 1.78:1 !

At its best it is indeed reference image quality, but some scenes appear 'softer' than others, with less detail. The CGI of the costumes looks superb, but other CGI elements bright out the softness, for example the lighthouse scenes.
So at its worst you can kind of tell it was filmed in 3.4K and delivered on a 2K DI. but at its best, including the final battle scene and my favourite (PQ-wise) scene of the entire movie: when Aquaman & the red-head walk out of the water from the beach, followed by the plane scene in the desert. Wow! Now that looks like straight-up 8K demo material.


One thing's certain I think it is BY FAR the best looking DC movie. None of the previous DCU movies are anywhere near reference IMO. I think I scored Justice League 1.5 , Batman Vs Superman a 1.75 and Wonder Woman a 2.0

While Aquaman PQ doesn't quite live up to the best superhero movies (TDK/R, GOTG2, Ant-man) it certainly gives Avengers: IW, Black Panther, Avengers Assemble a run for their money.

Tier recommendation: 0.50
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post #25742 of 25820 Old 06-18-2019, 06:58 AM
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Avengers (2012) 4K

Tier 0.9


If you thought the movie looked good in 1080p, the 4K remaster is a welcome surprise in that it looks even better. Textures were great. Colors were bold and just right. HDR was subtle and a welcome enhancement.


I think that after I bumped up the MV by 5dB, the Atmos soundtrack did a decent job of replicating the previous soundtrack experience, only with added overhead effects. Also, the movie still holds up.

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post #25743 of 25820 Old 06-18-2019, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
AQUAMAN (4K)Well this movie has been praised by absolutely every, ranking among many top lists and some users (of this forum) have stated it's the best picture quality they've ever seen.
I can't recall anyone on this Thread stating this was "the best picture quality they've ever seen." I'm on record saying, "It's one of the best" and then in my placement I gave it a Tier 0 and then narrowed it down by saying "in the Top Three 'Live Action' films." I'm not exactly sure where that would land, but it would be somewhere in the "Top 15-20." As you know, Planet Earth 2 is still THE KING, and I really don't know where the next "live action film" is among the MANY animated marvels that make up the vast majority of those sitting in the top of Tier 0.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post57830876

At any rate, your rating of Tier 0 (.5) ain't too shabby!!

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post #25744 of 25820 Old 06-19-2019, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I can't recall anyone on this Thread stating this was "the best picture quality they've ever seen." I'm on record saying, "It's one of the best" and then in my placement I gave it a Tier 0 and then narrowed it down by saying "in the Top Three 'Live Action' films." I'm not exactly sure where that would land, but it would be somewhere in the "Top 15-20." As you know, Planet Earth 2 is still THE KING, and I really don't know where the next "live action film" is among the MANY animated marvels that make up the vast majority of those sitting in the top of Tier 0.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post57830876

At any rate, your rating of Tier 0 (.5) ain't too shabby!!

I was referring to post #12, in the official avsforum review of the movie where an owner of a JVC projector claimed it was "the best PQ he had ever seen"


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-o...l#post57769878

You and many others placed it really, really high. Some have said best ever, some say top 3 or top 5 or top 10. For me it wasn't on that level, but about half way up the reference list hence my tier 0(.5) rating. It's still excellent, just not as good as others have stated.

In any case I definitely need to catch up on the animated movies. I think I've only seen about 5-7 in the last ≈ 10 years!
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post #25745 of 25820 Old 06-19-2019, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by fredxr2d2 View Post
Avengers (2012) 4K

Tier 0.9


If you thought the movie looked good in 1080p, the 4K remaster is a welcome surprise in that it looks even better. Textures were great. Colors were bold and just right. HDR was subtle and a welcome enhancement.


I think that after I bumped up the MV by 5dB, the Atmos soundtrack did a decent job of replicating the previous soundtrack experience, only with added overhead effects. Also, the movie still holds up.

Will definitely get this movie in 4K. When it came out in 2012 on blu-ray I was mind blown. Along with Avatar and The Dark Knight Rises (IMAX 15/70 scenes) it was among the finest picture quality I had ever seen. So good in fact I was left disappointed with almost every Marvel movie since! (Avengers Age of Ultron springs to mind) a lot has changed since then so if I were to re-watch the 1080p version after seing Avengers: Infinity War, Black Panther and Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2 in 4K/HDR it probably wouldn't impress me that much anymore.

... But a 4K/HDR version of the original Avengers?
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post #25746 of 25820 Old 06-19-2019, 03:17 PM
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Since you guys were discussing the initial Avengers (UHD) Blu-ray, I thought I would copy the posts below where you and I discussed the latest UHD in the Avengers series. As you can see, you were actually a bit HIGHER than me in your placement, but we were both pretty close. I have no problem whatsoever with us disagreeing with a relatively "small margin" like this. I recall the days when we had members who were posting placements where they were "whole tiers apart" from the general consensus. Needless to say, we had some very animated discussions about those.


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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Avengers: Infinity War (UHD)

Man, this was a LONG movie and it's LATE, so I'm going to keep this very short.

The BOTTOM LINE: It's most definitely "reference material" with outstanding CONTRAST and COLORS, courtesy of HDR. Its specular highlights (also a benefit of HDR) were superb. BLACK LEVELS & SHADOW DETAILS were mesmerizing all the way through. DEPTH was amazing, at times. The downside was SOFTNESS during some of the many CGI scenes. Let me put it to you this way, unlike Transformers: The Last Knight, the CGI in this film simply couldn't retain its CLARITY and SHARPNESS. Don't get me wrong, there were plenty of scenes where it was "sharp as a tack" with CGI, but there were also a host of scenes where softness reared its ugly head.

I looked for others who actually reviewed it and Snell was the only one. He gave it a Tier 0 (.9). I think it deserves a wee bit higher placement, so...

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (.66)

PS The Dolby Atmos mix was kind of crazy. I had to turn the volume up to -5 to really get into it and at that level I was expecting more when it came to the massive explosions throughout the nearly 2 1/2 hour running time. Having said that, there were at least two scenes where the villain was pouring out what I call his "death wave of energy" and I could feel it rippling across the room. My subs are capable, at times, of reaching down to about 13 Hz and I believe it was at that level in those scenes.
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Well to be fair, when I reviewed Avengers: Infinity War, I think it was one of the last 1080p movies I reviewed. It was around this time I acquired my Samsung 4K/HDR player and since then I haven't really been able to go back to regular 1080p ! I have since watched Avengers: IW in 4K/HDR and my jaw dropped at the differences. Improved clarity, detail, resolution, sharpness, emboldened colours everything took quite a large step up, despite coming from a 2K DI.

I think 4K Avengers: IW is more align with Tier 0.5
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post #25747 of 25820 Old 06-19-2019, 06:27 PM
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Early prediction, Toy Story 4 will be the new #1 when the home version drops later this year.
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post #25748 of 25820 Old 06-20-2019, 03:43 AM
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Early prediction, Toy Story 4 will be the new #1 when the home version drops later this year.
Quite possibly
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post #25749 of 25820 Old 06-20-2019, 06:34 PM
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The Upside (1080p)

My wife and I just finished watching this "feel good" movie that was based on a true story. This was a remake of a film called The Intouchables and I was informed that this was a horrible rendition of it, but in this case "I'm glad I hadn't seen the original." The PQ was quite good and for those who like a FULL SCREEN (Hey Snell, are you listening?) this is in the 1.85:1 Aspect Ratio from beginning to end.. Overall it had striking clarity, amazing details/texture, strong contrast, excellent depth, and stellar black levels. It did have some "soft scenes" and at times the colors were a bit muted.

Tier Recommendation: 1.0*
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post #25750 of 25820 Old 06-21-2019, 05:53 AM
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Mary Poppins Returns (1080p)

Tier Recommendation: 1.0


This is a clean, clear 1080p movie. Colors tend to be muted, but textures are really great. Contrast seems to be spot on. There are a few moments where the colors went from bland to bright and if the whole movie had been that way, it would be a Tier 0 contender.


The audio was a bit low in volume and I was watching with my parents and wife, so I didn't push it up to where it might have been better (probably should increase by 5dB, per most recent Disney tracks).


The movie itself was overly long and occasionally boring, but I don't have the nostalgia for the first film that many do. My mother quite enjoyed it.

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post #25751 of 25820 Old 06-21-2019, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
The Upside (1080p)

My wife and I just finished watching this "feel good" movie that was based on a true story. This was a remake of a film called The Intouchables and I was informed that this was a horrible rendition of it, but in this case "I'm glad I hadn't seen the original." The PQ was quite good and for those who like a FULL SCREEN (Hey Snell, are you listening?) this is in the 1.85:1 Aspect Ratio from beginning to end.. Overall it had striking clarity, amazing details/texture, strong contrast, excellent depth, and stellar black levels. It did have some "soft scenes" and at times the colors were a bit muted.

Tier Recommendation: 1.0*
Well just wanted to pop in and say hi and to let you know that I watched the Mortal Engines UHD last night in my HT (got it for $15 which is about right for a somewhat sorry storyline though the film does get better later) and, after re-visiting your review, I really think this disc is as close to perfect as you can get right now. Agree with your assessment, the clarity, the gorgeous colors and detail are that good. Plus, I chuckled because, I too, listened to it at -5 because I was worried my nice next door neighbor would hear it in her bedroom on the opposite side of her house. The audio is that dynamic.
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post #25752 of 25820 Old 06-22-2019, 11:04 AM
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Well just wanted to pop in and say hi and to let you know that I watched the Mortal Engines UHD last night in my HT (got it for $15 which is about right for a somewhat sorry storyline though the film does get better later) and, after re-visiting your review, I really think this disc is as close to perfect as you can get right now. Agree with your assessment, the clarity, the gorgeous colors and detail are that good. Plus, I chuckled because, I too, listened to it at -5 because I was worried my nice next door neighbor would hear it in her bedroom on the opposite side of her house. The audio is that dynamic.
I saw Mortal Engines in the cinema with IMAX 3D. It looked phenomenal. Peter Jackson so you know it'll be reference when it comes to disc. Filmed with RED 8K and delivered on a 4K DI... Smells like tier 0
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post #25753 of 25820 Old 06-22-2019, 01:46 PM
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Another forum suggested I watch 13 hours... They stated it was the best live action HDR usage they had ever seen. I can't even remember if I've seen 13 hours, but in any case it would have been on my Kuro in 1080p/SDR. So a rewatch on OLED in 4K/HDR... Worth it
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post #25754 of 25820 Old 06-22-2019, 02:10 PM
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Another forum suggested I watch 13 hours... They stated it was the best live action HDR usage they had ever seen. I can't even remember if I've seen 13 hours, but in any case it would have been on my Kuro in 1080p/SDR. So a rewatch on OLED in 4K/HDR... Worth it
I'll be giving the uhd of 13 Hours a spin on my new HT3550 tonight. Can't wait!
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post #25755 of 25820 Old 06-22-2019, 05:21 PM
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^^^^^^^^^

Man, if 13 Hours is improved on UHD, it's going to come close to being the "King of the Blu-ray Hill." Here's my review of the 1080p version where I gave it a Tier 0 (.5) placement:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post44632481
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post #25756 of 25820 Old 06-22-2019, 06:11 PM
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Here's Ralph Potts' review of the UHD version. If this doesn't "whet your appetite" to SEE and BUY this Blu-ray, nothing will!

Just ordered it from Amazon at an incredible price!

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-o...l#post58104068

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post #25757 of 25820 Old 06-23-2019, 12:56 AM
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Cold Pursuit (4K)

There wasn't much impressive about this movie in terms of PQ. It looked rather generic and looked like a 'straight-to-DVD' or 'straight-to-netflix' type of movie and it looked closer to a Netflix quality deprived compressed stream rather than a true 4K/HDR physical media experience. Although some scenes did look rather sharper with a good amount of detail, it is the most part rather bland and soft-looking with areas not resolved to well. I like referring to the best 4K/HDR movies (Transformers LK, Billy Lynn) as either looking out a window or '4K that MUST be 8K' this is more like one those '4K that looks more like 2K'. Probably filmed in 2.8K on 2K DI, but there are movies that ARE filmed in 2.8k and derived from a 2K DI like John Wick put have excellent near reference quality. The movie was helped by the grayish looking blacks throughout. Nothing disappoints more than that when watch on an OLED TV. Stylistic choice of raising the blacks, but one I absolutely despise. Only time I was fed absolute blacks is when they announce the deaths in between scenes.


Tier recommendation 1.75
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post #25758 of 25820 Old 06-23-2019, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^^^^^

Man, if 13 Hours is improved on UHD, it's going to come close to being the "King of the Blu-ray Hill." Here's my review of the 1080p version where I gave it a Tier 0 (.5) placement:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post44632481
Four times the resolution, 30% more colour, 64 times more shades and 7-20 times higher peak brightness depending on your display.

Yeah I'm sure Michael Bay found at least some way to improve upon it

Ordered 13 hours 4K/HDR! Cannot wait
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post #25759 of 25820 Old 06-24-2019, 05:42 AM
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Apollo 13 - 4K

Really don't understand the hype for this at all - this movie looked mediocre from start to finish. Thick layer of grain, very noisy image, not a lot of detail to find either. I asked my friend to guess when this movie was made and said "I dunno, the 70s maybe". There isn't much to tell that this is 4K and there is very little visible use of HDR/WCG. Judging this movie's PQ by virtually any movie of the last five years and this comes up short. The only thing Apollo 13 had going for it are the space scenes where blacks were rendered perfectly.

Tier recommendation: 3
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post #25760 of 25820 Old 06-24-2019, 06:41 AM
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^^^^^^^

You don't understand the hype BECAUSE YOU HATE GRAIN! Really Snell, if you read anyone's review of just the 1080p Remastered Version, you will see they "sing its praises" (Ralph Potts gave that a PQ score of 92....Our own DarthDoxie gave it a placement of 1.0). Well, the 4K version takes it even higher (I gave it a .5 rating).

To place this in Tier 3 would be a TRAVESTY. Enough said!!

Here is an excellent review by HighDefDigest that gives it the praise it deserves:

https://ultrahd.highdefdigest.com/48...ahdbluray.html

PS You may be wondering, "Why in the world is Denny coming across so strong?" The answer is, "Whenever we have this much of a difference in placements there is going to be a STRONG DISCUSSION where everyone can defend their position." Like I said in an earlier post, we used have these kinds of differences and discussions in the distant past.
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post #25761 of 25820 Old 06-24-2019, 09:40 AM
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Mission Impossible: Fallout UHD

Very solidly good-looking title throughout, but few breathtaking scenes. There were a handful of good shots with lots of detail, but just as many that felt a little softer. Despite having lots of dark scenes, there was no black crush. So if you're one of those people who likes the use of HDR to show off subtle contrasts in blacks and grays, this has some good demo material for that. The color palette, while not as washed out as, say, Dunkirk, didn't have as much rich color as I always like seeing. (I realize in both cases that these are stylistic decisions by the director. I just always feel so starved for actual color!) I didn't see any banding, black crush, DNR, or any other issues.

I was close to rating this as Tier 0, but I feel like since the bar keeps getting higher and higher, simply not having any problems isn't enough to be Tier 0 in my book. This title looks great and no one will be disappointed by the PQ, but it just doesn't pop out enough to warrant being in the highest tier. If someone else were to push for Tier 0, though, I would not object.

P.S. It was also a surprisingly good movie. There were a lot of plot twists, so I may actually go back and re-watch it to get all of that detail again.

Tier recommendation: 1.0
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post #25762 of 25820 Old 06-24-2019, 10:04 AM
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^^^^^^^^^

Excellent review AND placement! We're on the same page!!

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post57225472
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post #25763 of 25820 Old 06-26-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^^^

You don't understand the hype BECAUSE YOU HATE GRAIN! Really Snell, if you read anyone's review of just the 1080p Remastered Version, you will see they "sing its praises" (Ralph Potts gave that a PQ score of 92....Our own DarthDoxie gave it a placement of 1.0). Well, the 4K version takes it even higher (I gave it a .5 rating).

To place this in Tier 3 would be TRAVESTY. Enough said!!

Here is an excellent review by HighDefDigest that gives it the praise it deserves:

https://ultrahd.highdefdigest.com/48...ahdbluray.html

PS You may be wondering, "Why in the world is Denny coming across so strong?" The answer is, "Whenever we have this much of a difference in placements there is going to be a STRONG DISCUSSION where everyone can defend their position." Like I said in an earlier post, we used have these kinds of differences and discussions in the distant past.

You guys must all be wearing old man's glasses, and giving it a high rating for being "good for being old" kind of thing. In comparison to modern movies, it looks really, really bad in my opinion.

Looking at the USER reviews on this website: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Apoll...lu-ray/186542/

the users voted it a 2/5* on video and 2/5* on its 4K image. Two out of five stars is the same a 4/10 score.

on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is an old black and white tape, while Transformers 5 in 4K/HDR is a 10... Apollo 13 belongs bang in the middle at around 5/10.

if;

tier 5 = 0 stars
Tier 4 = 1 star
tier 3 = 2 stars
tier 2 = 3 stars
tier 1 = 4 stars
tier 0 = 5 stars

then I am actually on the same page as the user reviews

my friend wasn't impressed either, and thought the movie was actually 20 years older than it was. If its 4K image was anywhere NEAR reference it would trick him into believing the movie and recently come out.

How can you tell the difference between a WWII movie like Fury and a WWII movie like The Great Escape? its easy to tell the former came out recently and the latter is several decades older, despite them both taking place in the same era. same goes with the original Spartacus and Spartacus the TV series, in 4K/Dolby Vision.

Honestly if you placed me in a pitch black room, Icould mistake my OLED playing a 4K/HDR version of Apollo 13 for a Sony XBR CRT playing an upscaled DVD of it instead.
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post #25764 of 25820 Old 06-26-2019, 12:10 PM
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But not all old movies necessarily look bad. Lawrence of Arabia was phenomenal in 1080p on my Kuro.

I remember I invited 3-4 friends over to watch Pulp Fiction, on blu-ray back in my Kuro days. None of them are videophiles but their jaws dropped at the sight of how good the PQ was. a film from 1994 left casual non-videophiles completely mind blown. We'd later watch movies like Man of Steel, Captain America, Green Latern and other generic superhero / blockbuster movies that were brand-spanking new and not a single comment about 'how good things looked'. those movies were more like "yeah it looks good, but who cares".not the "holy **** man your TV is ****ing legendary" vibe that Pulp Fiction gave.


Which reminds me... This movie is probably available in 4K/HDR by now ...
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post #25765 of 25820 Old 06-26-2019, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
You guys must all be wearing old man's glasses, and giving it a high rating for being "good for being old" kind of thing. In comparison to modern movies, it looks really, really bad in my opinion.

Looking at the USER reviews on this website: https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Apoll...lu-ray/186542/

the users voted it a 2/5* on video and 2/5* on its 4K image. Two out of five stars is the same a 4/10 score.

on a scale of 1 to 10, where 1 is an old black and white tape, while Transformers 5 in 4K/HDR is a 10... Apollo 13 belongs bang in the middle at around 5/10.

if;

tier 5 = 0 stars
Tier 4 = 1 star
tier 3 = 2 stars
tier 2 = 3 stars
tier 1 = 4 stars
tier 0 = 5 stars

then I am actually on the same page as the user reviews

my friend wasn't impressed either, and thought the movie was actually 20 years older than it was. If its 4K image was anywhere NEAR reference it would trick him into believing the movie and recently come out.

How can you tell the difference between a WWII movie like Fury and a WWII movie like The Great Escape? its easy to tell the former came out recently and the latter is several decades older, despite them both taking place in the same era. same goes with the original Spartacus and Spartacus the TV series, in 4K/Dolby Vision.

Honestly if you placed me in a pitch black room, Icould mistake my OLED playing a 4K/HDR version of Apollo 13 for a Sony XBR CRT playing an upscaled DVD of it instead.
If you actually read the user reviews, of which there are a whopping three, one of them is glowing, one is disappointed that it wasn't a huge upgrade over the blu ray, and one was upset that the aspect ratio was incorrect. There are many more positive reviews than negative, and using the limited number of user reviews to enhance your position seems disingenuous..

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post #25766 of 25820 Old 06-27-2019, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rnk21 View Post
If you actually read the user reviews, of which there are a whopping three, one of them is glowing, one is disappointed that it wasn't a huge upgrade over the blu ray, and one was upset that the aspect ratio was incorrect. There are many more positive reviews than negative, and using the limited number of user reviews to enhance your position seems disingenuous..
I just did a quick google search, found the reviewer scored it way higher than the user reviews. I didn't actually read them or see it was only 3. Anyway that's besides the point. This is still the worst movie I have seen on a 4K/HDR disk.


But if you guys all thought this looked really good, then I'm curious to find out what you guys think is an example of terrible looking 4K/HDR movie.
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post #25767 of 25820 Old 06-27-2019, 11:51 AM
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Creed II - 4K


Thought this movie looked absolutely excellent. Razor sharp, good contrast, INKY perfectly deep blacks. Watching this movie and enjoying its pristine 4K/HDR imagery made me as a huge sports fan (boxing, MMA, football) wonder how long it takes until live sports events look this good. Here in Norway we only get PPVs in a highly compressed (3-5Mb/s) 720p stream. I would LOVE to watch Fury vs Wilder II (or any of the two face Joshua/Ruiz) in 4K quality like this!


Tier recommendation: 0.75
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post #25768 of 25820 Old 06-27-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
But if you guys all thought this looked really good, then I'm curious to find out what you guys think is an example of terrible looking 4K/HDR movie.
I have about 90 4K/HDR Blu-rays in my library and I can only think of one that really disappointed me. I'm speaking of The Da Vinci Code, which had a lot of softness and some murky blacks. I looked for my review on it but it nothing came up. I probably still gave it at least a Tier 2 ranking though, for it did have some excellent details at times.

Regarding some of us ranking Apollo 13 high because "it looked good for an old film," that simply isn't true (in my case). You said your friend said the film looked 20 years older than it was...I believe he said that because this is indeed what we call a "period film" (due to it taking place in April of 1970). The "ascetics" of a period film is going to look different than a "Present-Day film." It will usually have saturated colors. It will often have "grain" (which I know you really like). That may come across to some viewers as "poorer quality" but IMHO if it still has good clarity, details, depth, black levels, and flesh tones it should NOT be penalized.

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Last edited by djoberg; 06-28-2019 at 04:45 AM.
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Two days ago I finally capitulated and took possession of a new LG OLED55E8PUA. I was looking for an OLED with excellent HDR and strong black levels. This display looks great in my limited testing so far.

Blu-ray Picture Quality Tiers (updated through July 13, 2017)
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post #25770 of 25820 Old 06-28-2019, 06:18 PM
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Two days ago I finally capitulated and took possession of a new LG OLED55E8PUA. I was looking for an OLED with excellent HDR and strong black levels. This display looks great in my limited testing so far.
Good for you Phantom! You are going to LOVE it!!

LG OLED 77C8...Denon X4300H 9.2 AVR...LG UHD UBK90 (Dolby Vision BDP)...Philips UHD BDP-7501...Toshiba HD-A30...Dish Hopper 3...Roku Premiere Plus...Harmony One

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