The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 861 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25801 of 26033 Old 07-18-2019, 05:49 AM
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Shazam! 4K


Not gonna lie, it did take me quite a while to 'enjoy' its PQ. filmed in 3.4K and probably derived from a 2K DI it certainly isn't anywhere near as sharp and punchy as other super hero movies. It doesn't have that 3D-depth to it either, and a bit grainy but where this movie excels is its usage of HDR. the colours look amazing (just not contras-y and punchy if that makes sense) Emboldened yellows & reds of Shazam's suit, the HDR highlights burn your retinas and completely blaze your eyes with brightness and pop. It's chromatic excellence for sure. Just a few years ago I'd put this in tier 0 for sure, but when you've seen Aquaman, Black Panther, Avengers: IW, GOTG2, Ant-man etc. the bar is really high for 4K/HDR movies!!

Tier recommendation: 1


Edit: On a side not the sound quality of this movie was way on top of the reference list. Like 10/10 sound quality. Okay maybe not, but at least 9.7+/10. It was flawless. Bass was thunderous, the dynamic range was delivered in SPADES. So much better than any Marvel movie...
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post #25802 of 26033 Old 07-19-2019, 09:18 AM
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^^^^^^^^^

I just picked this up at Best Buy yesterday and will be watching it tonight. I bought it based on ALL THE RAVE REVIEWS I've read on the PQ/AQ. Phantom's "sidekick" on DoBlu.com had many glowing remarks on the PQ, as did HiDefDigest and Blu-ray.com. In fairness, Blu-ray.com did point out that there are some instances of noise, banding and aliasing, but that they were "few and far between" and "fleeting."

Perhaps your hatred of grain (most reviewers comments on the "grain structure") entered into your lack of enjoyment and final placement. I will be brutally honest when I review it tonight. Right now I'm thinking, based on everything I've read, that it may still be worthy of Tier 0 but closer to the bottom than the top. What I'm really excited to see is Dolby Vision's spectacular Wide Color Gamut and the striking contrast in some scenes.

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post #25803 of 26033 Old 07-19-2019, 10:09 AM
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Shazam! 4K

Tier Recommendation: Tier 1 (could be argued for low Tier 0)


I watched this last night and considering that Ralph gave it 100/100 for PQ, I expected something more akin to Aquaman or Mortal Engines. It is quite good at times - the outdoor shots of Philadelphia look AMAZING. There are some great helicopter shots of the city that just looked super detailed and right on point. The main issue I have with the PQ is the softness of the CGI and the slightly elevated blacks in the cave scenes. I'd say this is a good looking movie, and the HDR was pretty impressive. It just isn't the new PQ king.


Audio was quite good and the bass delivered in spades - it does make you wish that Marvel would do soundtracks closer to these DC bass monsters.

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post #25804 of 26033 Old 07-19-2019, 01:12 PM
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^^^^^^

Hey Fred,

I was sorry to read that you witnessed "elevated blacks" in the movie. Every review I read especially praised the "inky blacks" that gave the movie great depth. Did you watch this on your projector?

Denny
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post #25805 of 26033 Old 07-19-2019, 01:46 PM
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Titans: The Complete First Season

recommendation: Tier 1.25*

As the debut original series for the fledgling DC Universe streaming service, Titans had many eyes on it at launch. Titans now makes its home video debut this week on Blu-ray from Warner in a two-disc set that collects all eleven episodes from season one. The technical specifications won't be a shock to anyone that has purchased television programs on Blu-ray before from WB. The AVC encode holds up under demanding action, largely thanks to an impeccably-shot production with exacting cinematography. A lot of money has been sunk into this production and would fit quite comfortably on premium cable.

As DC's first foray into television unhampered by the constraints of network television, Titans takes on a gritty tone and imposing visual aesthetic. The live-action drama isn't necessarily eye candy, but certainly provides impressive clarity and strong high-definition video. Its strongest virtue is an unwavering consistency to the picture quality. The desaturated color palette avoids primary colors. Titans is the antithesis of Adam West's Batman. Titans paints in shades of black by comparison to the colorful 60's series.

The digital transfer is free of artifacts and any real problems. Inky black levels and fine shadow delineation help set the mood. Close-ups pop with real dimensionality and razor-sharp focus. Titans is not a show overly concerned with showing off elaborate levels of detail, but takes an honest approach which avoids overusing CGI elements.
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post #25806 of 26033 Old 07-19-2019, 08:13 PM
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Shazam! (UHD)

Okay, the credits are rolling and all I can think of is what Fred said in his review's tier recommendation. He said (after placing it in Tier 1), "could be argued for low Tier 0." Well, guess what? I don't agree with him. Why? Cause I'm going to argue for the MIDDLE OF TIER 0!!!

Seriously, as I was watching this I kept thinking, "Did those guys (Snell and Fred) watch a different version of this movie or what?" Except for some SOFTNESS inside the Group Home at times, this film had amazing CLARITY, mesmerizing DETAILS, astounding DEPTH, inky BLACKS and tantalizing SHADOW DETAILS, super strong CONTRAST, and last, but certainly not least, GORGEOUS COLORS. I did NOT see any elevated blacks like Fred did, nor did I really see much of a grain structure like Snell. Fact is, I didn't see any of the anomalies (banding and aliasing) mentioned in the review on Blu-ray.com.

I would love to see others chime in after seeing this. As it is now (with only 3 of us weighing in and 2 are arguing for Tier 1) it may barely make it into Tier 0. IMHO that would be a travesty.

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (.5)

PS The Dolby Atmos mix was PURE REFERENCE all the way through!

PPS The last LONG scene at the carnival was TOP TIER 0 material...simply unbelievable in every respect!

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post #25807 of 26033 Old 07-19-2019, 08:29 PM
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Besides the review by Ralph Potts, the review below mirrors my own thoughts (on the PQ/AQ) except for his comments on banding and aliasing:

https://ultrahd.highdefdigest.com/71...ahdbluray.html

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post #25808 of 26033 Old 07-19-2019, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Shazam! (UHD)

Okay, the credits are rolling and all I can think of is what Fred said in his review's tier recommendation. He said (after placing it in Tier 1), "could be argued for low Tier 0." Well, guess what? I don't agree with him. Why? Cause I'm going to argue for the MIDDLE OF TIER 0!!!

Seriously, as I was watching this I kept thinking, "Did those guys (Snell and Fred) watch a different version of this movie or what?" Except for some SOFTNESS inside the Group Home at times, this film had amazing CLARITY, mesmerizing DETAILS, astounding DEPTH, inky BLACKS and tantalizing SHADOW DETAILS, super strong CONTRAST, and last, but certainly not least, GORGEOUS COLORS. I did NOT see any elevated blacks like Fred did, nor did I really see much of a grain structure like Snell. Fact is, I didn't see any of the anomalies (banding and aliasing) mentioned in the review on Blu-ray.com.

I would love to see others chime in after seeing this. As it is now (with only 3 of us weighing in and 2 are arguing for Tier 1) it may barely make it into Tier 0. IMHO that would be a travesty.

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (.5)

PS The Dolby Atmos mix was PURE REFERENCE all the way through!

PPS The last LONG scene at the carnival was TOP TIER 0 material...simply unbelievable in every respect!
I thought it had fantastic picture quality . One of the best Dolby Vision 4K Blu-rays I have seen on my LG OLED. Real demo material.
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post #25809 of 26033 Old 07-19-2019, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^^

Hey Fred,

I was sorry to read that you witnessed "elevated blacks" in the movie. Every review I read especially praised the "inky blacks" that gave the movie great depth. Did you watch this on your projector?

Denny
I did not see elevated blacks either !
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post #25810 of 26033 Old 07-20-2019, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post
I thought it had fantastic picture quality . One of the best Dolby Vision 4K Blu-rays I have seen on my LG OLED. Real demo material.
I would encourage you to make a placement recommendation. You've already told us how it is "one of the best Dolby Vision 4K Blu-rays you've seen," now you just need to make a precise placement. Tier 0 is the HIGHEST ranking you can give it but you can't just say "Tier 0." You have to put in parenthesis the place in that tier you think it deserves. For example, I suggested ".5," which means I believe it deserves a place in the very MIDDLE OF THE TIER. You may think it deserves a higher place (based on your comments).

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post #25811 of 26033 Old 07-21-2019, 07:11 AM
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Aparajito (Criterion)

recommendation: Tier 3.5*

Just slightly better than Pather Panchali but still in tier 3.5. Overall, black levels and details are pleasing. Contrast suffers a little with having to use lesser film elements with most of the OCN destroyed in a fire.

This is the second of the Apu Trilogy, one more to go.

I picked up 9 Criterion titles this month during the Barnes & Noble sale and also got the Transformers UHD 5 movie collection on Prime Day (can't wait to dig into these).

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I find your lack of schadenfreude disturbing.
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post #25812 of 26033 Old 07-21-2019, 07:55 AM
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The grain structure annoyed me as always, but I did too notice what was a flat out noise & banding. Didn't say any elevated black levels, they were perfect for me. The specular highlights and emboldened colours really stood out and were among the best on the format... but the grain/noise/banding/aliasing is what ultimately moved this from a 0.75 to tier 1 in my opinion.

I don't think it is anywhere close to being deserving a 100/100 rating, as Fred commented.. We have Mortal Engines to thank for that! (and Transformers 5: Last Knight) those are the 100/100 movies
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post #25813 of 26033 Old 07-21-2019, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredxr2d2 View Post
Shazam! 4K

Tier Recommendation: Tier 1 (could be argued for low Tier 0)


I watched this last night and considering that Ralph gave it 100/100 for PQ, I expected something more akin to Aquaman or Mortal Engines. It is quite good at times - the outdoor shots of Philadelphia look AMAZING. There are some great helicopter shots of the city that just looked super detailed and right on point. The main issue I have with the PQ is the softness of the CGI and the slightly elevated blacks in the cave scenes. I'd say this is a good looking movie, and the HDR was pretty impressive. It just isn't the new PQ king.


Audio was quite good and the bass delivered in spades - it does make you wish that Marvel would do soundtracks closer to these DC bass monsters.
The sound quality was much more impressive than the image quality. The LFE track was frankly insane.
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post #25814 of 26033 Old 07-21-2019, 10:12 AM
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I only occasionally check this thread. Can someone tell me what the status is of the PQ Tier list?

Is the sticky thread named the following the most up-to-date list?: Blu-ray & UHD Picture Quality Rankings: The PQ Tiers July 2017 Last Post

Thanks. I'm sure maintaining this list is a lot of work and time consuming.
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post #25815 of 26033 Old 07-21-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
The grain structure annoyed me as always, but I did too notice what was a flat out noise & banding. Didn't say any elevated black levels, they were perfect for me. The specular highlights and emboldened colours really stood out and were among the best on the format... but the grain/noise/banding/aliasing is what ultimately moved this from a 0.75 to tier 1 in my opinion.

I don't think it is anywhere close to being deserving a 100/100 rating, as Fred commented.. We have Mortal Engines to thank for that! (and Transformers 5: Last Knight) those are the 100/100 movies
Again, I did see NOT see any of the anomalies you mentioned.

I agree with you that this title was not up there with Mortal Engines or Transformers: The Last Knight, with the latter being the all-time "King of the Hill" (it will be very hard to trump that one). Having said that, I do believe the Dolby Atmos mix on Shazom! was just as good as the audio mixes in either of those two titles.
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post #25816 of 26033 Old 07-21-2019, 07:18 PM
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A Quiet Place (UHD)

I was able to pick this up at a decent price this week so I snagged it. The credits are rolling and I didn't see any real difference between this and the 1080p version I reviewed a year ago. I will give you the link to my review.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post56472326

I gave it a 1.0 and thus....

Tier Recommendation: 1.0*
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post #25817 of 26033 Old 07-22-2019, 03:54 AM
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Alita: Battle Angel - 4K


Obviously expectations for a movie so heavily involved with James Cameron are sky high. The man who gave us Avatar, which was at the time, the very best-looking reference disk with the best CGI ever made. Does Alita over take the throne once held by Avatar? Well not really.

The CGI is some of the best I've ever seen. it rivals the likes of Transformers, Aquaman, Pacific Rim, Mortal Engines etc but is by no means the 'Avatar 2' level one might hope. I still think Alita is (despite the eyes) the best looking animated character, ever. Usually CGI looks soft and lacks the detail of a film shot, but in Alita's case, she looked more realistic / rendered with MORE detailed than the live-action faces!
Unfortunately while the image is crisp it's also pretty soft in some areas. It's as if it could have been a top 3 contender but the director left the camera slightly out of focus.

colours look awesome, there's plenty of pop, although orange hues dominate the majority of the presentation, the contrast is excellent and it's very punchy.

It's a very detailed image with a lot of punch that sadly gets let down by some (minor) softness.

But it's still superb, just not a 'PQ king'.


Tier recommendation: 0(.5)
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post #25818 of 26033 Old 07-22-2019, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^^

Hey Fred,

I was sorry to read that you witnessed "elevated blacks" in the movie. Every review I read especially praised the "inky blacks" that gave the movie great depth. Did you watch this on your projector?

Denny

I did watch this on my calibrated JVC X790. I don't watch movies on anything else!



I thought that the cave scenes in the beginning had some slightly elevated black levels, but since I use masking for the black bars, it can be hard to know if they were going for black or for a dark gray and I mistook the intentional dark gray for elevated blacks. I will say that the rest of the movie had really great contrast, so something about those cave shots looked slightly off to me (it could be the CGI).


Since other reports are coming in, I'm going to see if I have a few minutes to check out the various scenes and contrast today or tomorrow.

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post #25819 of 26033 Old 07-22-2019, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meli View Post
I only occasionally check this thread. Can someone tell me what the status is of the PQ Tier list?

Is the sticky thread named the following the most up-to-date list?: Blu-ray & UHD Picture Quality Rankings: The PQ Tiers July 2017 Last Post

Thanks. I'm sure maintaining this list is a lot of work and time consuming.
Just click on the link in my signature. Everything below Tier 0 is current through January of this year.
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post #25820 of 26033 Old 07-22-2019, 03:34 PM
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Anyone here give Revenge a watch? I watched it yesterday on the 900e and it was very nice. Razor sharp details. Close ups showed every line, wrinkle and crease on faces.
The colors when called upon were bold and vibrant, a stark contrast to the desert setting where a lot of the movie took place.
Blacks were deep and inky, with very good shadow detail. This would look spectacular in 4k with hdr.
Definitely a crazy movie, gory at times and twisted, yet I would highly recommend this as definite eye candy.

Even though it's not a 4k uhd disc, I would confidently rate it a solid tier 1 maybe closer to a ".75"

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post #25821 of 26033 Old 07-22-2019, 04:35 PM
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Give it a Tier recommendation, man!! That's only what's missing from your review.

As you may not recall, I've been wanting to get that movie on BD, but other things have gotten on the way. I remember your comments on the PQ and AQ.

But I suspect that movie won't be getting many reviews here, since it's very violent, explicit and gory, but I do think is a very compelling watch, at least the first time. Given the nature of the movie, I'm not sure I'd be watching it regularly, even when Matilda Lutz is smoking hot. But..yeah. I'm getting it.

Edit: we're talking about this movie:



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post #25822 of 26033 Old 07-22-2019, 09:40 PM
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I know a couple people reviewed the 1990 thriller titled Revenge years ago. I haven't seen the newer one.



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post #25823 of 26033 Old 07-22-2019, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
I know a couple people reviewed the 1990 thriller titled Revenge years ago. I haven't seen the newer one.



It's sick! Leave your brain at the door lol
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post #25824 of 26033 Old 07-23-2019, 09:13 PM
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Breakthrough (1080p)

This was a pleasant-looking film, with excellent clarity (with the exception of the underwater scenes) that had striking details at times and amazing depth. Colors were natural and vibrant...flesh tones were spot on...and black levels were deep & inky. Some softness occurred but it was fleeting and there are no other anomalies to report.

This was a true story that I had not heard about and it was truly a miracle! The cast was superb with very good acting.

Tier Recommendation: 1.0*

PS If the 4K version gives it an uptick this would most definitely end up in Tier 0 (some may even be inclined to put the 1080p release there).
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post #25825 of 26033 Old 07-23-2019, 09:24 PM
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^^^^^^

I forgot to add that the CONTRAST was very strong, with brilliant whites (most notably in the coats worn by doctors in the St. Louis Hospital).

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post #25826 of 26033 Old 07-25-2019, 12:23 PM
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Black Hawk Down (UHD)

recommendation: Tier 0* (0.5)

Excellent review, but I'm putting it just a hair lower. I though the shadow detail could have been better.


I was disappointed by the sound and anemic LFE considering the BD was demo material.



Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Black Hawk Down (UHD)

I finally got around to watching this and it was even better than I had anticipated. Snell, I feel sorry for you when it comes to "hating grain," for I had no problems whatsoever with the grain with the one or two exceptions where it became a bit much when there was DUST from bombing or trucks racing through the city.

This is most definitely "Reference Quality!" It's all about DETAILS, DETAILS and more DETAILS. I think I can say unequivocally that this title had the best details (especially "facial details and texture") I've ever seen. Here is the short review I just posted on Ralph Potts' site:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-o...l#post58155704

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (.33)

PS The Dolby Atmos mix was great, but not phenomenal in the LFE/bass department. Having said that, the highest I could turn it to (because of the WAF) was -7.5.
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post #25827 of 26033 Old 07-25-2019, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthDoxie
I was disappointed by the sound and anemic LFE considering the BD was demo material.
They're basically the same mix. The ATMOS track is a tad higher in level, but a MV adjustment solves the issue.

Edit: I deleted info not relevant to this thread

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post #25828 of 26033 Old 07-27-2019, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AmerCa View Post
They're basically the same mix. The ATMOS track is a tad higher in level, but a MV adjustment solves the issue. Here's a heat map of both tracks. You wouldn't tell which is which. (First is ATMOS, second is the LPCM 5.1)

Spoiler!


Maybe you're disappointed that they didn't updated the track?

Pretty picture, might as well post a Picasso painting, I'd probably understand it better and my ears can tell the difference I'm still disappointed the LFE is anemic. F#%&ing Irene just doesn't have the same impact:



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post #25829 of 26033 Old 07-27-2019, 09:04 AM
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I deleted my own post, since I talked about topics not really relevant to this thread.

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post #25830 of 26033 Old 07-29-2019, 10:36 AM
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Apur Sansar (Criterion)

recommendation: Tier 3.5*

The same as the other two in the Apu Trilogy despite the OCN for this one was completely destroyed in the fire.

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