The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 870 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26071 of 26106 Old 11-19-2019, 12:16 PM
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Dora and the Lost City of Gold

recommendation: Tier 0* (middle)

Paramount's new family movie has state-of-the-art picture quality on Blu-ray and competes well with the UHDs now fighting for dominance in the PQ Tiers. The live-action adventure was finished at 4K and filmed using ARRI Alexa tech. Impeccable definition and clarity bring Dora the Explorer's adventures to vibrant life.

Pin-sharp and exuding detail in the crystal-clear 1080P video, this is top-flight picture quality. I would call it absolutely flawless until a hint of banding crops up in the AVC encode, late in the movie.
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post #26072 of 26106 Old 11-20-2019, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
Dora and the Lost City of Gold

recommendation: Tier 0* (middle)

Paramount's new family movie has state-of-the-art picture quality on Blu-ray and competes well with the UHDs now fighting for dominance in the PQ Tiers. The live-action adventure was finished at 4K and filmed using ARRI Alexa tech. Impeccable definition and clarity bring Dora the Explorer's adventures to vibrant life.

Pin-sharp and exuding detail in the crystal-clear 1080P video, this is top-flight picture quality. I would call it absolutely flawless until a hint of banding crops up in the AVC encode, late in the movie.
Well that's something that would have flown right under my radar. Guess not
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post #26073 of 26106 Old 11-20-2019, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I just watched the first two episodes of Jack Ryan: Season Two on Amazon Prime and man does it look GOOD on UHD/HDR!!
I actually think it looks quite soft and has some banding issues... Not many have agreed with me but I prefer Netflix's 4K Dolby Vision over the 4K/HDR provided by Amazon by quite a wide margin.

It might just be my display, but regular HDR just doesn't look anywhere near as good as the Dolby Vision presets do.

I just finished Season 2 of Jack Ryan and it looks pretty good, but not on the same level as say Marco Polo, Altered Carbon, Lost in Space etc.

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post #26074 of 26106 Old 11-20-2019, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Okay, I'm watching the 3rd episode right now and there is a very serious case of BANDING in every scene with open blue skies. I can't recall seeing banding this bad before. Has anyone watched this series and if so, are you experiencing banding? I'm hoping there is an easy fix for this...perhaps it has something to do with the new Firmware I downloaded last night...or maybe my settings got screwed up some how.
Well there you go... I too had to try and adjust my settings... something just didn't look right.


Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^^^^

We're basically "on the same page!"

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post58636980

I slipped in The Wizard of Oz (UHD) last night when I got home from Philadelphia. So far, it looks amazing! I wouldn't say it's a contender for a top spot in Tier 0, but it's definitely Reference Quality. As I said sometime ago, if I were to simply compare it to its DVD/Blu-ray counterparts, I'd probably nominate it for the Top Ten. But in comparing it to recent UHD titles, it's not quite that good.

I will say this...so far it looks as good or better than any "catalog title release on UHD."
Indeed I was struggling to decide between 0.25 and 0.33. Spiderman's PQ absolutely surprised me. I didn't expect it to look that good, which was amazing.
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post #26075 of 26106 Old 11-20-2019, 02:35 AM
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Red Heat (4K)


So this movie got a relatively low score from AVS' Ralph Potts... I checked some other reviews and they didn't boast about it either.


Which I think is weird. I keep getting disappointed time after time because reviewers will praise old movies and give 5 star or 9+/10 PQ ratings to 4K restorations of really old movies which are filled with thick horrible grain and lots of noise. Reviewers appear to be wearing nostalgia goggles.


But with Red Heat I actually thought it looked really good. One of the best looking 1980s movies I have ever seen in fact. Most of the stuff coming out of the 80s, even with 4K remasters belong in the tier 2-3 range IMO but Red Heat had the least invasive, thin-layered amount of grain that give it an organic & 'filmic' look without ruining the image quality. The use of HDR wasn't really apparent, but lots of details to be found.


I watched this 1988 with my Mum who was 19 years old when this movie came out. Even she had to comment how good it looked :mrgreen:


Tier recommendation: 1.5
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post #26076 of 26106 Old 11-20-2019, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
I actually think it looks quite soft and has some banding issues... Not many have agreed with me but I prefer Netflix's 4K Dolby Vision over the 4K/HDR provided by Amazon by quite a wide margin.

It might just be my display, but regular HDR just doesn't look anywhere near as good as the Dolby Vision presets do.

I just finished Season 2 of Jack Ryan and it looks pretty good, but not on the same level as say Marco Polo, Altered Carbon, Lost in Space etc.
I asked members on the OLED Thread who have watched Jack Ryan about the banding and everyone who responded said there was zero banding. Glad to read your post and realize I'm not seeing things!

Your comments about Netflix and Dolby Vision are giving me the desire to finally sign up for Netflix. So, are you saying there wasn't as much softness or banding on Netflix?

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post #26077 of 26106 Old 11-20-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
Well that's something that would have flown right under my radar. Guess not
The Dora movie is definitely made for children that have grown up on the cartoon. Solid family entertainment if your pre-teen children grew up with Dora the Explorer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
I actually think it looks quite soft and has some banding issues... Not many have agreed with me but I prefer Netflix's 4K Dolby Vision over the 4K/HDR provided by Amazon by quite a wide margin.

It might just be my display, but regular HDR just doesn't look anywhere near as good as the Dolby Vision presets do.

I just finished Season 2 of Jack Ryan and it looks pretty good, but not on the same level as say Marco Polo, Altered Carbon, Lost in Space etc.
I have always been more impressed by Dolby Vision content. I've heard complaints that Amazon bandwidth starves their streaming encodes, hurting PQ.

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post #26078 of 26106 Old 11-20-2019, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
The Dora movie is definitely made for children that have grown up on the cartoon. Solid family entertainment if your pre-teen children grew up with Dora the Explorer.

I have always been more impressed by Dolby Vision content. I've heard complaints that Amazon bandwidth starves their streaming encodes, hurting PQ.
I agree with you Phantom that Amazon Prime's bandwidth must indeed starve their streaming encodes, for most movies are quite soft. One of the worst is The Man in the High Castle. There are exceptions to that rule though, for Mad Dogs has be one of the most detailed and colorful movies out there, with striking clarity.

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post #26079 of 26106 Old 11-21-2019, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
I asked members on the OLED Thread who have watched Jack Ryan about the banding and everyone who responded said there was zero banding. Glad to read your post and realize I'm not seeing things!

Your comments about Netflix and Dolby Vision are giving me the desire to finally sign up for Netflix. So, are you saying there wasn't as much softness or banding on Netflix?
Yeah Netflix with 4K Dolby Vision content looks phenomenal. I don't care what any videophile says. Its not perfect and its not as good as any Tier 0 movie on 4K UHD blu-ray but I am constantly mind blown by how good many shows look.

I recently watched 'The King' and some parts of that movie looked like absolute REFERENCE. Other parts not as good which is obviously due to the limited bandwidth which is only 15-25Mb/s compared to blu-ray's 30-40Mb/s and true 4K 80-128Mb/s. (worst case is a factor of 8!)

I'll have you know I ONLY use my Netflix subscription to watch shows & Netflix produced originals in 4K/DV.

I'd say Amazon's 4K/HDR is 60-80% of true physical 4K/HDR while Netflix's 4K/DV is 80-90% of true physical 4K/HDR.
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post #26080 of 26106 Old 11-23-2019, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
Yeah Netflix with 4K Dolby Vision content looks phenomenal. I don't care what any videophile says. Its not perfect and its not as good as any Tier 0 movie on 4K UHD blu-ray but I am constantly mind blown by how good many shows look.

I recently watched 'The King' and some parts of that movie looked like absolute REFERENCE. Other parts not as good which is obviously due to the limited bandwidth which is only 15-25Mb/s compared to blu-ray's 30-40Mb/s and true 4K 80-128Mb/s. (worst case is a factor of 8!)

I'll have you know I ONLY use my Netflix subscription to watch shows & Netflix produced originals in 4K/DV.

I'd say Amazon's 4K/HDR is 60-80% of true physical 4K/HDR while Netflix's 4K/DV is 80-90% of true physical 4K/HDR.
You should know that streaming services (Netflix, Disney+, Apple TV, etc) only support 10-bit Dolby Vision. UHDs have superior 12-bit Dolby Vision when using FEL.
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post #26081 of 26106 Old 11-24-2019, 03:40 PM
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Hellboy (2004) (UHD)

recommendation: Tier 1.0*

Excellent detail and black levels. Also has some really good LFE in some scenes.


Hellboy II: The Golden Army (UHD)

recommendation: Tier 1.25*

Another good looking UHD.
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I find your lack of schadenfreude disturbing.
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post #26082 of 26106 Old 11-25-2019, 07:56 PM
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The Angry Birds Movie 2 (UHD)

I'll say it right away....this is another WINNER and easily a contender for the Top Five in the animated movie category. I was blown away by the COLORS and the TEXTURE in all the birds, landscapes, foliage, sand, etc., etc. Here are my brief comments that I posted on Ralph's site:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/187-o...l#post58873860

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (Top Five in Animation Films)

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post #26083 of 26106 Old 11-25-2019, 08:00 PM
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^^^^^^^^

I should have added that there are some shots with spectacular PHOTO-REALISM! This is true in shots of the ocean, sand, rocks, etc. If you don't want to buy this I would at least give it a rent. You owe it to your EYES to see it!!

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post #26084 of 26106 Old 11-27-2019, 03:10 PM
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Let me wish everyone here safe travels over the approaching Thanksgiving holiday. Rest up for all the UHD deals available on Black Friday.


Chuck Berry: Hail! Hail! Rock 'n' Roll

recommendation: Tier 2.75*

Shout Factory recently licensed this 1987 Universal documentary/concert for a fine collector's edition. It's a solid rendering of an older film transfer taken from the original elements. Concert portions look the best with fairly nice definition and better contrast. Some of the interviews have lesser picture quality in terms of sharpness but nothing too out of bounds. No major issues beyond some minor inconsistencies in quality.

A few years ago I would have placed this disc in Tier 2.0 without a second thought.


Road Games

recommendation: Tier 3.25*

The 1981 Australian thriller starring Stacy Keach and Jamie Lee Curtis was just put out by Scream Factory on Blu-ray. They've borrowed the same 4K transfer used on the Australian Blu-ray from a couple years ago. It's widely known the original camera negative wasn't used for the scan. Some dust and a little debris appear in the scope presentation.

Perhaps better than average picture quality for a low-budget catalog flick, reasonably strong clarity and definition clearly justify the 4K work. There's been no serious attempt at restoring the film but this is quite serviceable video. Somewhat dodgy shadow delineation here is my biggest complaint.
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post #26085 of 26106 Old 11-29-2019, 04:13 PM
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^^^^^^^

Thanks for the "Double Feature" Phantom!

I just ordered the UHD version of Tomb Raider (the 2018 movie) for under $10 (Black Friday special). I had given the 1080p version a Tier 0 (.75) ranking so I'm looking forward to an up-tick in resolution and will report back after viewing it. For whatever reason, Amazon is telling me that it may be in mid December or even mid January before I receive it.

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post #26086 of 26106 Old 11-29-2019, 05:56 PM
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^^^^^

I canceled the Amazon order and got it from Best Buy for the same price! It should be here by Thursday.

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post #26087 of 26106 Old 11-29-2019, 10:26 PM
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Amazon does that around the holidays. I really don't think Amazon likes selling physical media anymore - they want to push everyone towards their digital streaming options for both music and movies.


This is now the time to pick up UHDs - Amazon has many cheap UHDs under $10. Black Hawk Down UHD is down to $10 right now. Every self-respecting home theater enthusiast should have that release.
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post #26088 of 26106 Old 11-30-2019, 08:44 AM
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I agree!

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post58155730

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post #26089 of 26106 Old 12-01-2019, 09:53 PM
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Star Trek Into Darkness (UHD)

I know I watched this back in 2016 when I purchased my first 4K display (Sony 940D LCD/LED) but I could NOT find a review from me...or anyone else. I was absolutely blown away by the PQ/AQ on this one!! Reference Quality from beginning to end!!! In fact, it had some of the best shots I've ever seen with jaw-dropping clarity and details in the IMAX scenes!!!!

I believe one big improvement watching this on my OLED (compared to the LCD/LED) was the amazing BLACK LEVELS. Of course, this had tons of deep space scenes to highlight them and there were many interior shots inside the USS Enterprise as well. Shadow details were marvelous; contrast was "out of this world"; flesh tones were perfect; and colors were dazzling at times (an excellent example was the first scene as Kirk and Bones were running through the "Red Jungle").

The Dolby Atmos mix was most definitely one of the best I've heard. I did NOT have my dual subs or my Dolby Atmos speakers when I viewed this in 2016 and I simply couldn't believe the accuracy in the surrounds and overhead speakers, the clarity in the center channel, and last, but not least, the thunderous bass/LFE in the subs. Again, "Reference Quality" all the way through!

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (.33)

PS I almost nominated this for .25 but there were a few soft shots here and there.

PPS Next up...Star Trek Beyond!

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post #26090 of 26106 Old 12-03-2019, 07:49 PM
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Star Trek Beyond (UHD)

Another "Reference Quality" UHD Blu-ray, but just barely! I was expecting more of the same with this sequel but the PQ fell short of its predecessor due to more SOFT SHOTS and less-than-stellar BLACKS in many of the interior shots of the USS Franklin and inside caves. Add to that the lack of IMAX cameras/scenes...for the IMAX scenes in Star Trek Into Darkness were the "jewels" that brought it up to nearly the top of Tier 0.

In fairness, all of the outdoor, daytime shots were spectacular, with striking CLARITY, DETAILS, DEPTH and COLORS. Also, the various explosions that produced FIRE were dazzling, courtesy of HDR (which I should have mentioned in my review of Into Darkness).

AQ-wise, this had very accurate and precise sound throughout the fronts, surrounds, center and height channels, but the bass/LFE was somewhat disappointing in scenes where you would expect your walls to be shaking and waves of energy to be rippling across the room.

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (.9)

PS I can't wait for the day when they will make an action film with IMAX cameras (and a full screen Aspect Ratio) from beginning to end. For the life of me I can't see why they didn't have at least some scenes in IMAX like they did in Star Trek Into Darkness!

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post #26091 of 26106 Old 12-04-2019, 02:31 PM
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Filming with IMAX cameras imposes strenuous demands on filmmakers that aren't meticulous planners like Nolan, not to mention the additional expense. That is why it's not used more often.
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post #26092 of 26106 Old 12-04-2019, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
Filming with IMAX cameras imposes strenuous demands on filmmakers that aren't meticulous planners like Nolan, not to mention the additional expense. That is why it's not used more often.
Yes, I agree, and that's why we need more filmmakers that are "meticulous planners like Nolan." Regarding the "additional expense," I would like to believe a day is coming when more consumers will become "videophiles" and that filmmakers will be more than willing to up their budget to meet the demands of those who crave excellent Picture Quality (though I suspect this is a 'pipe-dream' of mine).
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post #26093 of 26106 Old 12-05-2019, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Yes, I agree, and that's why we need more filmmakers that are "meticulous planners like Nolan." Regarding the "additional expense," I would like to believe a day is coming when more consumers will become "videophiles" and that filmmakers will be more than willing to up their budget to meet the demands of those who crave excellent Picture Quality (though I suspect this is a 'pipe-dream' of mine).
It's a cumbersome, expensive technology that has somewhat limited capability, limited appeal, limited distribution (largest metropolitan areas).

3D gave it some life, but it's largely a trickle now with mainly phony IMAX.

We'll see what happens with 2020 big boys - "1917", "Godzilla vs. Kong", "Dune". Never say never.

Related:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...leased_in_IMAX
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post #26094 of 26106 Old 12-05-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Panson View Post
It's a cumbersome, expensive technology that has somewhat limited capability, limited appeal, limited distribution (largest metropolitan areas).

3D gave it some life, but it's largely a trickle now with mainly phony IMAX.

We'll see what happens with 2020 big boys - "1917", "Godzilla vs. Kong", "Dune". Never say never.

Related:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...leased_in_IMAX
Thanks Panson for the Wikipedia link!

In persuing all the FULL IMAX films, it appears all of them were either documentaries (a good percentage of these being on animals and planet earth), sporting events or music concerts. As far as PARTIAL IMAX films, I have most of them with the best IMAX scenes being in The Dark Knight Rises, Interstellar, Ghost Protocol, Star Trek Into Darkness, Mission Impossible: Fallout, Dunkirk, and last, but certainly not least, Transformers: The Last Knight. The last two mentioned had most scenes done in IMAX and I can't imagine it taking that much more "time and money" to do the whole film with IMAX cameras.

I did see that Top Gun: Maverick will be filmed entirely with IMAX-certified Sony Venice cameras.

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post #26095 of 26106 Old 12-05-2019, 02:55 PM
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^^^^^^^^^

I should have mentioned that I am really looking forward to the "Big Boys" that you mentioned!

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post #26096 of 26106 Old 12-05-2019, 08:07 PM
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Tomb Raider (UHD)

I'm going to take the lazy route once again and post my link to the 1080p version. The UHD release most definitely gives us an uptick in resolution. I was especially impressed with some of the vibrant colors (courtesy of Dolby Vision) in some of the London and Hong Kong scenes...they were "natural-looking" yet they also "popped!" Details and depth were also a sight to behold! Blacks levels and shadow details were also superior to the regular Blu-ray. One of my favorite scenes took place about halfway through the movie with a beautiful nighttime sky and mesmerizing details in trees, rocks and foliage. Facial details/texture were also a highlight, even in dark scenes.

If a had one gripe it would be with the CGI scenes in the latter half....some were a bit SOFT and BLURRY.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post56384230

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (.33)

PS I had given the 1080p version a .75 so the UHD buy was worth the Black Friday sale price and then some!
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post #26097 of 26106 Old 12-06-2019, 08:47 PM
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Angel Has Fallen (1080p)

For the most part, this release is "sharp as a tack" with "Reference Quality" details in almost every scene (especially in ALL outdoor daytime shots and well-lit interior shots). Facial details excel with incredible texture...wait till you see Nick Nolte and, of course, Morgan Freeman!! Flesh tones are excellent in spite of some serious color-grading (the infamous "teal" seen in many action movies). Depth is amazing at times...contrast is super-strong...and black levels are as deep as they come, with corresponding shadow details (though there were fleeting shots at nighttime that became a SOFT and NOISY).

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (.5)
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post #26098 of 26106 Old 12-07-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Star Trek Beyond (UHD)

A

PS I can't wait for the day when they will make an action film with IMAX cameras (and a full screen Aspect Ratio) from beginning to end. For the life of me I can't see why they didn't have at least some scenes in IMAX like they did in Star Trek Into Darkness!
This is what I have been waiting over a decade for! the IMAX MSM 9802 camera captures more detail & resolution than any other camera out there. The IMAX 15/70mm shots of Nolan's movies are a level above anything else IMO.

I think only Nolan uses for any significant amount of time.
Movies with IMAX 15/70mm scenes:

Dunkirk (70%)
Interstellar (50%)
The Dark Knight Rises (40%)
The Dark Knight (20%)

The rest are just single scenes I think. Like First man. That movie looked meh for 99% of the movie and then I think it had maybe 5 minute moon landing scene which COMPLETELY blew my mind. Knew it was IMAX 15/70mm. Instantly.

So it seems Nolan uses the IMAX MSM 9802 camera more and more for ever movie he makes, if we omit Inception which came after TDK and before TDK:R but didn't have any IMAX shots.

His new movie 'Tenet' I hope will be filmed in IMAX 15/70mm at least 80% of the time !

That would definitely knock Transformers: LK off it's PQ-throne.
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post #26099 of 26106 Old 12-07-2019, 10:42 AM
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According to ShotonWhat there are actually a handful of movies filmed with the IMAX MSM 9802.

https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/imax-msm-9802-camera

There's all the aforementioned Nolan movies, and a few blockbusters but I cannot remember any particular 'wow' moments in those movies? I watched them all in the cinema and not at home I think, so I cannot confirm. Has anyone seen Transformers 2, MI:GP, Star Trek:ID ? I've seen BvS and cannot remember any particular moment that stood out, PQ-wise.


Then there's the Journey to Mecca, Wild Ocean and India: Kingdom of the Tiger which are filmed entirely with the IMAX MSM 9802!

Anyone know if they even exist on 4K media?
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post #26100 of 26106 Old 12-07-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by SnellTHX View Post
According to ShotonWhat there are actually a handful of movies filmed with the IMAX MSM 9802.

https://shotonwhat.com/cameras/imax-msm-9802-camera

There's all the aforementioned Nolan movies, and a few blockbusters but I cannot remember any particular 'wow' moments in those movies? I watched them all in the cinema and not at home I think, so I cannot confirm. Has anyone seen Transformers 2, MI:GP, Star Trek:ID ? I've seen BvS and cannot remember any particular moment that stood out, PQ-wise.


Then there's the Journey to Mecca, Wild Ocean and India: Kingdom of the Tiger which are filmed entirely with the IMAX MSM 9802!

Anyone know if they even exist on 4K media?
Just look at my review of Star Trek Into Darkness from a few days ago. I was extolling the virtues of the IMAX scenes in that film! But I had no idea they were using the IMAX MSM 9802 camera. I've also seen the UHD version of Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol and there too I had no idea which IMAX camera they had used.

So, do you know anything about the IMAX Sony Venice camera...which will be used for the upcoming Top Gun: Maverick movie? The WHOLE FILM will be shot with that camera!!

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