The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 873 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #26161 of 26428 Old 01-11-2020, 10:48 PM
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Fantastic review, Djoberg. I think the first Conjuring might have the edge just because it was the first one and started a whole new horror franchise, arguably the best of this decade, but damn, Creation comes pretty close, and it's possibly my favorite movie in the franchise. Not so long ago I rewatched The Conjuring, and it holds up pretty well, and it's a very good film in its own right. Creation gave the same vibe.

The audio mix was great, and I imagine a proper ATMOS setup would bring the experience to another level. I watched it alone as well (like all my horror movies ), and I admit I was scared in a level only the first two Conjuring movies have done.

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post #26162 of 26428 Old 01-12-2020, 05:58 AM
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^^^^^^^

I think what made The Conjuring so unique (besides a better cast), was the fact that the "malevolent spirit" inside of Carolyn (Lili Taylor) was so freaky. Granted, in Annabelle: Creation you had that (with Janice), but not with the same effect or duration. Carolyn's possession was just as freaky (or more!) and convincing as that of Regan (Linda Blair) in The Exorcist.
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post #26163 of 26428 Old 01-12-2020, 07:51 AM
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Rambo: Last Blood

Well this title was certainly a surprise. I know it's Rambo , but I still had very low expectations for this movie.
It's PQ was phemonenal, razor-sharp & crystal clear 4K. the bright scenes / outdoor ranch shots were almost demo-worthy.
Then there's the facial detail, the scars, wrinkles pores, marks, cuts, stitches, blemishes and other imperfections found on Stallone (I don't even know what to call it, its like these skin patterns almost like a rash not uncommon especially among people near the age of Stallone) I previously haven't really seen in any form of media before. the greens of the grass, the browns of the ground and blue sky all stick out well.

Unfortunately the dark scenes didn't hold up anywhere near as well and I did see some noise in the latter half of the rather short movie.
At it's best we're talking tier 0.25 material on par with the latest X-Men or Spiderman movie.

It is ultra-punchy and vibrant at its best but with some let downs.


Tier recommendation: 0.75
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post #26164 of 26428 Old 01-12-2020, 01:55 PM
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post59044506

Granted, this a review of the 1080p version, but if you're right then the 4K release takes it up almost a whole tier.

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post #26165 of 26428 Old 01-13-2020, 07:05 PM
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I rented Ready or Not, but only watched about 30 minutes of it. I did NOT care for the movie one bit (too much profanity and some gore, along with a very sick plot) and the PQ was not very good. It had a lot of noise, weak blacks, and some of the worst color-grading ever!! In fairness, there were some scenes that were fairly sharp with pretty good details.

I didn't watch enough to give a score, but from what I saw I was thinking around 2.0.
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post #26166 of 26428 Old 01-14-2020, 04:34 PM
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King Kong (UHD....2017 Ultimate Edition)

Okay, I was browsing channels the other night (on Dish Network) and I saw that King Kong (2005 version) was on so I watched it. I've always liked this release but the PQ was insufferable at times. So, I popped in my HD-DVD version (I never did buy the Blu-ray release) and that gave it a definite boost in resolution and sharpness, but it still left much-to-be-desired. Then I went to Amazon and found a decent price for the UHD release, which I ordered and received in the mail earlier today. I just spent about an hour going over some of my favorite scenes.

What did I find? A "mixed bag," with some stellar shots and some not-so-stellar shots. The opening scenes, which were way too dark in previous releases, had very good lighting (in daytime outdoor scenes and in interior shots) courtesy of HDR. But once we got to Skull Island I was disappointed to see that the dark scenes (during the storm at night and in jungle scenes that lacked sunshine) were somewhat murky, resulting in a flat look void of details. Where there was sunshine it was much better, though there were instances of too much contrast resulting in a washed out look. And then there was the infamous "color-grading" (yellow, anyone?) that was very, very distracting, at least to my eyes.

I should mention that along with better lighting (due to HDR) the colors were also more vibrant than any previous releases. Also, there were more details and texture in close-ups of faces, though at times Naomi Watts appeared to have had her face "smoothed" by the director. Black levels were also quite good in some scenes, though as mentioned above there were some "murky shots."

I guess the bottom line is this is easily the best version I've seen, but it still doesn't compare to more UHD releases of more recent movies (like Skull Island, for example, which was absolutely mesmerizing). Because of this, it won't make the coveted Tier (Tier 0) and IMHO it won't reach the top of Tier 1 either. My vote goes for....

Tier Recommendation: 1.5*

PS Thankfully the DTS:X audio quite good! Again, not as good as some recent titles, but much better than the audio mixes in former releases of this title.
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post #26167 of 26428 Old 01-14-2020, 06:01 PM
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Excellent review, Djoberg. I'm not a fan of that version of King Kong, but I also never watched it "properly" in terms of A/V. But I don't remember liking the story that much. The Skull Island isn't a great movie either, but at least is "fun".

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post #26168 of 26428 Old 01-16-2020, 03:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^^^^^^^^^

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/150-b...l#post59044506

Granted, this a review of the 1080p version, but if you're right then the 4K release takes it up almost a whole tier.
Well I certainly agreed with all the positive parts you mentioned and I actually agree with some of your complaints as well. Much of the difference can be that the on the 4K/HDR presentation, the great is even greater, and the dull is less dull.
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post #26169 of 26428 Old 01-16-2020, 03:53 AM
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After reviewing the entire Daniel Craig collection of blu-rays, of which it was a mixed ride of emotions.

I see most reviewers agree that either Skyfall > Spectre > QoS > CR

with Skyfall be a level above any of the others. Skyfall filmed with 2.8K - 5K digital cameras from Arri & Red (4K DI) while the others being filmed with 35mm. (2K DI)

BOY I cannot wait for the next 007: 'No Time to Die' - which not only is mastered with a 4K DI but is filmed the PROPER IMAX 15/70mm analog celluloid film camera! According to IMDB the IMAX MSM 9802 (same camera used by Nolan in the Dark Knight series, Interstellar & Dunkirk)

Skyfall is already very close to the top, can't wait to see how good No Time to Die looks.

Worth nothing the majority of the film is probably filmed with the Panavision Millennium XL2.
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post #26170 of 26428 Old 01-16-2020, 04:05 AM
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Anyone seen Gemini Man yet? Is it the next big thing? The 'Avatar' of 2019?

I think I've reviewed both Ang Lee's Billy Lynn's Long halftime Walk and Life of Pi. The former is currently a top 5 - top 10 disc and the latter is still top 20 IMO, being #1 when it first came out 8 years ago.

I have high hopes that Gemini Man will rival, be on par or perhaps even surpass Transformers 5: Last Knight
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post #26171 of 26428 Old 01-16-2020, 07:33 AM
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^^^^^

It seems Gemini Man is either being praised or condemned by reviewers. Those who don't like the PQ say they HATE the HFR (High Frame Rate) for it makes it look so ARTIFICIAL and gives it the dreaded "soap opera effect."

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post #26172 of 26428 Old 01-16-2020, 09:30 AM
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Anyone seen Gemini Man yet? Is it the next big thing? ...
I saw "Gemini Man" in the theater, projected at 120fps. The movie was really bad, people in the theater were laughing out loud at the bad dialogue. But I would recommend seeing it to anyone on this forum just because of the technology.

Turns out I hate HFR, at least for movies, but I've never seen anything like it. And given the disappointing box office for "Gemini Man", there may not be any more HFR theatrical releases. I think Cameron is walking back the idea of releasing Avatar 2 in HFR.

If you have the opportunity to see it in HFR, everyone here definitely should, despite the reviews.

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post #26173 of 26428 Old 01-16-2020, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^

It seems Gemini Man is either being praised or condemned by reviewers. Those who don't like the PQ say they HATE the HFR (High Frame Rate) for it makes it look so ARTIFICIAL and gives it the dreaded "soap opera effect."
Yes, plenty of discussion elsewhere so I won't duplicate. But the point about reviewers - I think there was resounding agreement on one aspect, which is the most important - it was a terrible film!
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post #26174 of 26428 Old 01-16-2020, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by meli View Post
I saw "Gemini Man" in the theater, projected at 120fps. The movie was really bad, people in the theater were laughing out loud at the bad dialogue. But I would recommend seeing it to anyone on this forum just because of the technology.

Turns out I hate HFR, at least for movies, but I've never seen anything like it. And given the disappointing box office for "Gemini Man", there may not be any more HFR theatrical releases. I think Cameron is walking back the idea of releasing Avatar 2 in HFR.

If you have the opportunity to see it in HFR, everyone here definitely should, despite the reviews.
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Yes, plenty of discussion elsewhere so I won't duplicate. But the point about reviewers - I think there was resounding agreement on one aspect, which is the most important - it was a terrible film!
Okay, my understanding is that the HFR (60fps) can only be seen on the 4K/UHD Blu-ray. On the 1080p Blu-ray release it will be seen in 24fps. I had wanted to see it with the HFR just to get my own take on it, but there's no way I'm going to buy the UHD version just to see if I like the HFR (unless it ends up in a "bargain bin" someday at Wally World ). I have way too many UHD titles now that don't have a good "Repeat Viewing Value" (they are "terrible films") and I don't want to add to that list.
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post #26175 of 26428 Old 01-16-2020, 11:03 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Okay, my understanding is that the HFR (60fps) can only be seen on the 4K/UHD Blu-ray. On the 1080p Blu-ray release it will be seen in 24fps. I had wanted to see it with the HFR just to get my own take on it, but there's no way I'm going to buy the UHD version just to see if I like the HFR (unless it ends up in a "bargain bin" someday at Wally World ). I have way too many UHD titles now that don't have a good "Repeat Viewing Value" (they are "terrible films") and I don't want to add to that list.
Or do what I did and rent the 4K UHD from Redbox for $2.50. I'm a sharpness freak and ate up the HFR it's different than 24 Hz but I love it.
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post #26176 of 26428 Old 01-17-2020, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^

It seems Gemini Man is either being praised or condemned by reviewers. Those who don't like the PQ say they HATE the HFR (High Frame Rate) for it makes it look so ARTIFICIAL and gives it the dreaded "soap opera effect."
But that's the thing.. it seems the only hate it gets is the HFR. So if you like HFR, it should be phenomenal. And besides, even if you hate HFR, if it has 'better than Transformers: LK' picture, it is a MUST SEE
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post #26177 of 26428 Old 01-17-2020, 12:35 AM
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Yes, plenty of discussion elsewhere so I won't duplicate. But the point about reviewers - I think there was resounding agreement on one aspect, which is the most important - it was a terrible film!
In this case, I don't care how about a film is if the picture quality is good enough. I could stare at LG/Samsung/Sony 8K&HDR demos all day long
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post #26178 of 26428 Old 01-17-2020, 06:23 AM
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Or do what I did and rent the 4K UHD from Redbox for $2.50. I'm a sharpness freak and ate up the HFR it's different than 24 Hz but I love it.
We have two (Redbox) locally and neither of them carry UHD Blu-rays yet. If they did, I would surely rent it.

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But that's the thing.. it seems the only hate it gets is the HFR. So if you like HFR, it should be phenomenal. And besides, even if you hate HFR, if it has 'better than Transformers: LK' picture, it is a MUST SEE
Again, I would love to see it to get my take on it. I must confess I HATE the SOE (Soap Opera Effect) so if it looks like that and I couldn't adjust to it, I'd probably turn it off.

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post #26179 of 26428 Old 01-18-2020, 01:02 PM
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Okay, it seems that I've been on a weird diet of "Humble Pie" in the last few weeks, for I've had to retract statements that I made dogmatically about certain titles. As you may have experienced, "humble pie" is very hard to swallow, yet today I managed to "gulp down my pride" and now I'm at my keyboard...ready to confess to "you all" my change of heart.

I said "dogmatically" that I would NOT be purchasing Gemini Man due to many calling it a "terrible film" and because I didn't want to add another title to my "Do not view again" shelf. I also said I hated the Soap Opera Effect and I didn't want to take a chance on not being able to adjust to that look. But I've changed my mind! Why? Because I've read enough reviews from "respectable reviewers" (Ralph Potts, doblu.com, hi-def digest, and Blu-ray.com) who say the PQ is absolutely amazing and that they were able to make the adjustment to the HFR's "artificial look" quite easily. Two of them said it is now sitting on the very top of their "Demo Pile" to show off to family and friends. And some even said the movie wasn't all that bad. This clinched it for me.

So, I will be ordering it right after I hit "SUBMIT REPLY."
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post #26180 of 26428 Old 01-18-2020, 02:51 PM
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^^^^^^^^^^

For those of you who are considering purchasing the UHD release of Gemini Man, you may be interested in reading the following article:

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/par...demonstration/

You will see that the writer of this article found the movie "distracting" because of his lifetime experience viewing movies in 24fps. This may be your experience too...or it may not. Snell referred to the movie Transformers: The Last Knight. This UHD movie, though not presented in the HFR of 60fps, actually has almost an "artificial look" due to its superior clarity and details. Another example that comes to my mind is The Hobbit: Trilogy which is only seen (so far) in 24fps on Blu-ray disc, but it too has such remarkable clarity and details that some have been distracted by it. The fact is Peter Jackson shot that trilogy in 48fps for the cinema and then the blu-ray transfer was done in 24fps. Personally, I really like the trilogy's PQ...I gave them a solid Tier 0 score and they deserve it.

The Bottom Line: Even if you're used to 24fps, you may find yourself liking/loving the HFR. I sure hope I do!! (Man, that "Humble Pie" isn't so bad after all!)
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post #26181 of 26428 Old 01-19-2020, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
^^^^^^^^^^

For those of you who are considering purchasing the UHD release of Gemini Man, you may be interested in reading the following article:

https://www.hometheaterforum.com/par...demonstration/

You will see that the writer of this article found the movie "distracting" because of his lifetime experience viewing movies in 24fps. This may be your experience too...or it may not. Snell referred to the movie Transformers: The Last Knight. This UHD movie, though not presented in the HFR of 60fps, actually has almost an "artificial look" due to its superior clarity and details. Another example that comes to my mind is The Hobbit: Trilogy which is only seen (so far) in 24fps on Blu-ray disc, but it too has such remarkable clarity and details that some have been distracted by it. The fact is Peter Jackson shot that trilogy in 48fps for the cinema and then the blu-ray transfer was done in 24fps. Personally, I really like the trilogy's PQ...I gave them a solid Tier 0 score and they deserve it.

The Bottom Line: Even if you're used to 24fps, you may find yourself liking/loving the HFR. I sure hope I do!! (Man, that "Humble Pie" isn't so bad after all!)
It goes far better with certain types of content. I couldn't see myself watching a drama/melodrama at that frame rate. Action? Maybe, depending on a few factors. Hollywood keeps dabbling with it because they anticipate an audience developing from gamers more used to those frame rates. Anything to keep teenagers going to the movie theaters.
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post #26182 of 26428 Old 01-20-2020, 01:09 AM
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La La Land

recommendation: Tier 1.25

Current placement. I expected more out of this one, maybe the UHD is better?
Just came here to post my review of the UHD version. I didn't see the original Blu-ray, but I think you must have been feeling generous. I would give La La Land UHD a Tier 2.5. It looked out of focus for most of the film, almost no details to be found anywhere. The colors were just...ok. There were some scenes at the end that gave it some life, but I was pretty disappointed. I have seen many 1080p Blu-rays that look much better than this.
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post #26183 of 26428 Old 01-20-2020, 01:56 AM
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Just came here to post my review of the UHD version. I didn't see the original Blu-ray, but I think you must have been feeling generous. I would give La La Land UHD a Tier 2.5. It looked out of focus for most of the film, almost no details to be found anywhere. The colors were just...ok. There were some scenes at the end that gave it some life, but I was pretty disappointed. I have seen many 1080p Blu-rays that look much better than this.
I can't remember if I posted my review or not. I vaguely remember being disappointed. The movie itself was terrible so I never made it through the entire film. I heard plenty of reviewers giving it really high scores for its picture quality, but if memory serves me right I thought it looked pretty average too.
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post #26184 of 26428 Old 01-20-2020, 09:05 AM
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It goes far better with certain types of content. I couldn't see myself watching a drama/melodrama at that frame rate. Action? Maybe, depending on a few factors. Hollywood keeps dabbling with it because they anticipate an audience developing from gamers more used to those frame rates. Anything to keep teenagers going to the movie theaters.
I hear you Phantom. Yet my reason for wanting to see this title is because of "our love" of PQ and from everything I've read the PQ is simply amazing; perhaps the best some have ever seen. And this assessment is coming from some who do NOT like the "artificial...soap opera effect." Yet they still admitted it has superior PQ. We (you, me and everyone who frequents this thread) love good PQ and I guess I feel compelled...almost obligated, to check this one out.

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post #26185 of 26428 Old 01-21-2020, 01:09 AM
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Terminator: Dark Fate

Another example of a 4.5K film sourced from a 4K DI (I'm starting to see a positive trend, most (almost every) movies I have seen lately have 4K DI) which gives it a sharp image, with great details and it looks very punchy with great depth thanks to the resolution in combination with good use of HDR / WCG. very warm amber/sepia/brown/golden/yellow tones but I thought it looked pleasant. No grains, no noise, no softness, no apparent flaws... but it isn't as sharp, as detailed, as punchy, as 3D-like and as vibrant as other top titles-

It didn't look as good as it did in the IMAX (it looked like a top reference title there) and it's best isn't as good as say, Rambo: Last Blood's best, but its worst wasn't as bad as Rambo's. while Rambo varied from 0.25 - 1.25 (average = 0.75) I thought Dark Fate's image was more consistent.

Tier recommendation: 0.75
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post #26186 of 26428 Old 01-21-2020, 08:12 PM
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^^^^^^^

Thanks Snell for the good review on Terminator: Dark Fate.

So, have you purchased a copy of the UHD release of Gemini Man yet? I'm assuming you either have or will be since you are the one who brought this up to us on this thread. I'll be curious to read your review once you do. I always respect your forthrightness and honesty when assessing the PQ of Blu-rays.

My copy arrives late tomorrow and I hope to watch it sometime on Thursday or Friday.

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post #26187 of 26428 Old 01-22-2020, 06:26 PM
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Gemini Man (UHD....60fps)

So, what do I think? Let me sum it up in THREE WORDS:

PURE EYE CANDY!!!

Is this as good as Transformers: The Last Knight which currently holds the "King of the Hill" title? I believe it is...and perhaps it's better! That's a hard call though for I'm still trying to process what I just saw. This definitely has equal or better DETAILS, DEPTH, CONTRAST, FLESH TONES, BLACK LEVELS, and CLARITY. But it's the COLORS that takes this one up a notch (courtesy of Dolby Vision); they simply "blew me away."

How did I like the HFR? I was surprised that for the majority of the film it didn't bother me nearly as much as I thought it would. Having said that, I still prefer, as of now, 24fps, but that may very well be due to "conditioning" since 24fps is all I've ever known. What I can say is I will watch this again and I will be using this for my new "Demo Disc!"

I should also mention that I slipped in the 1080p version immediately afterwards and watched quite a few scenes. Believe me when I say, "There is not real comparison as far the PQ goes...the UHD blows the 1080p 'out of the water.'" The 1080p version may very well end up in Tier 0 (for it deserves to), but it won't be at or even near the very top.

Tier Recommendation: Tier 0* (#1 or, at the very least, tied with #1)

PS Two things...the Dolby Atmos mix was awesome AND the movie wasn't as bad as many have said...it's not going to win any awards, but I thought the acting was fairly good and the chemistry between Will Smith and Mary Elizabeth Winstead was effective...and the action scenes were okay.

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post #26188 of 26428 Old 01-22-2020, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
Gemini Man (UHD....60fps)

So, what do I think? Let me sum it up in THREE WORDS:

PURE EYE CANDY!!!
Wow, you had a dramatic change of heart within the space of one page. It's commendable to have an open mind.
I'll have to check out the UHD Bluray someday to see how it compares with my memory of the 120fps 3D projection (which I really disliked, but I'm super glad I got to experience).

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post #26189 of 26428 Old 01-22-2020, 07:34 PM
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Wow, you had a dramatic change of heart within the space of one page. It's commendable to have an open mind.
I'll have to check out the UHD Bluray someday to see how it compares with my memory of the 120fps 3D projection (which I really disliked, but I'm super glad I got to experience).
My "change of heart" is due, primarily, to the awesome PQ I saw tonight! I know I had stated that I have always hated the "Soap Opera Effect," but before tonight the only time I ever saw the SOE was on satellite broadcasts; namely, on "Soap Operas" (in Full Disclosure I do NOT follow Soap Operas but every once in awhile, when I'm flipping through channels, I would spend a few minutes watching one).

I was fully expecting to be totally distracted by the SOE in Gemini Man; what I wasn't expecting was to be so blown away by the PQ that it "distracted me from the SOE!!" There are some scenes, like the daytime scenes that took place in Columbia, that were absolutely JAW-DROPPING! The COLORS popped like I've never seen before and it wasn't in an unrealistic way. I make frequent trips to the Bahamas and I've vacationed in Cabo San Lucas, Mexico...places that are known for flamboyant colors in buildings and clothing...and what I saw tonight in Gemini Man reminded me of those places with their dazzling colors.

To reiterate though, I still, as of now, prefer 24fps over the HFR of 60fps. The motion in HFR films is going to require time to adjust and appreciate. I'm just glad that it didn't take me "out of the movie" and thus I was allowed to appreciate the superior PQ instead. Again, to my eyes this was PURE EYE CANDY!!
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post #26190 of 26428 Old 01-23-2020, 05:51 AM
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^^^^^^^

Thanks Snell for the good review on Terminator: Dark Fate.

So, have you purchased a copy of the UHD release of Gemini Man yet? I'm assuming you either have or will be since you are the one who brought this up to us on this thread. I'll be curious to read your review once you do. I always respect your forthrightness and honesty when assessing the PQ of Blu-rays.

My copy arrives late tomorrow and I hope to watch it sometime on Thursday or Friday.

I haven't yet, not available here until mid february. Though I guess I'll buy from US
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