Cinram to add 15 more Blu-ray lines to Olyphant PA production facility - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Cinram to add 15 more Blu-ray lines to Olyphant PA production facilityMore good news for Blu-ray.

=================================

Just got word that Cinram has ordered 15 more Blu-ray lines for its Olyphant, PA facility. Currently it has 2 BD lines and 98 HD DVD/DVD capable lines and the 15 oldest DVD lines would be taken out and replaced by the new Blu-ray lines. At least 2 million per line for an over $30 million investment.

I assume the new Blu-ray lines would be BD50 capable.

That may add over 2 million Blu-ray disc production capacity per week to the market.

It had 2 lines capable of Blu-ray now it will soon have 17 lines and 83 DVD lines in the building.

The lines will be capable of 24 hour operation. The two older Blu-ray lines were not the same type and each could only get around 7 sec cycle time hovering just over 50% yield.

The newer lines should get 3.5 sec to 4 sec cycle time and higher yields overall. They will not use Sony technology for royalty reasons. I assume they will come from Singulus and may be from Oerlikon design.

Installation should be relatively quick at the Olyphant site.

Cinram does Warner New Line Fox and MGM production among others.

My back of envelope calculation says 1 lines at 4 sec average cycle time 24 hours in a day is 15 discs/minute x 60 x 24 = 21,600 discs per day per machine surge capacity. 20,000 per day average surge yields were discussed as the machines could run 24 hours a day if required.

So 17 lines is 367,000 discs per day (17 x 21,600) or 2,570,000 Blu-ray discs per week out of the Cinram facility within a few months.

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post #2 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:18 PM
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Wow, that's cool, thanks for the info. I wonder how long it will take to get them started and how many total production lines there are for BDs. I hope they have enough to get Universal and Paramount up and running quickly.
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post #3 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I think the yields are averaged into the cycle time calculation of 4 sec.

I think they are hoping to get 3.5 sec per disc cycle time.

Maybe have to reduce it by 80% yield rate.

Either way its a 2 to 17 or 850% increase in their production capacity.

Just insider info , nothing formal from Cinram on this yet.

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post #4 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:22 PM
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Thanks for the news, the numbers, and the post!

Great news indeed. That's a lot of discs.

59 Blu-rays and counting...
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post #5 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:23 PM
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Very good news.. At least there is an expectation of and planning for rapid growth.
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post #6 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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The best news about it is the quick reaction to the news either from last month last week or today.

They seem to have waited for the format war to be over to pull the trigger and anticipate rapid growth.

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post #7 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:48 PM
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Metal Gear Solid 4 will have a significant effect on replication capacity when it's released, I think. Volumes are going to go up throughout the year, but we're talking a million copies pressed for the first week, and unlike most PS3 games it is reportedly going to be BD50.

The PS3 will keep the older BD25 lines busy for years though.
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Nice post, Kosty.

I did hear from an insider that Cinram was able to revamp the coat applying procedure on the bluray line, which effectively bumped the yield rate up into the 90s.

More good news for blu.

I suspect that one of the terms of Warner going blu was that production had to get ramped up.

Im hoping the person who shared this info with me will comment.

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post #9 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_P View Post

Wow, that's cool, thanks for the info. I wonder how long it will take to get them started and how many total production lines there are for BDs. I hope they have enough to get Universal and Paramount up and running quickly.

You and me both. My first Universal purchase will be like Christmas to me.

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post #10 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:52 PM
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Has production volume been an issue up to this point? I'm not arguing, I'm seriously wondering. I thought the hold back on new releases wasn't production, but the conversion of the film to digital format and all that that entails.

Thanks for the post Kosty.
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post #11 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I was also told that the new Cinram lines will use a different technology than the one Sony DADC uses for its production lines.

Wasn't specific , I assume Sony has built its own machines, but it was a question of royalties to Sony that a different Blu-ray replication technology was being used.

Thought that was curious.

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post #12 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 05:57 PM
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Thanks Kosty
Very good news indeed.

A Home Theater Enthusiast!
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post #13 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Replication capacity was among my biggest concerns for Blu-ray.

If it gets resolved and replicators get ahead of sales and planned release schedules for BD50 production, I will be a happy camper.

Maybe this was part of the Warner decision making assessment. Or if its a consequence of it, I welcome it.

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post #14 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 06:10 PM
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Yes. Cinram uses Singulus lines and the Cinram Huntsville plant will add 4 dual layer lines within the next six months as we have some open floor space for at least 6 lines. After that, it is either building another addition or moving around existing equipment. Since a Blu-line takes up about the same space as two Spaceline I or II, we will probably start with removing the existing 9 DIC DVD lines and give that space over to printing. We have 32 older Spaceline I which can go as DVD production drops. There are 10 older Spaceline II and 15 Spaceline II-E.

It takes quite a bit of time ( 6 to 8 months ) from placing a machine order to actually having that line up-and-running so don't expect huge quantities of BD until the 2008 holiday season. It took 6 months to deliver and install 6 Spaceline II HD lines.

Sony DADC is helping Singulus with dual layer BD development so Singulus will be a step behind Sony. Singulus is a world leader in sputtering technology and is probably helping Sony in getting cycle times down. If anyone can figure out a way to avoid using embossing on the 2nd layer, Singulus can.

Kosty. We just finished the latest upgrade on the single layer lines and they are up to about 90% at 4 second cycle time in large runs. The main revisions are the water-cooled disc receivers and the new degassing setup.

I'm on vacation now but I can ask Singulus about how many machines they can assemble this year for both the Huntsville and Olyphant plants. Our 2 BD lines have not run 24/7 for more than a week yet and we were getting about 35,000 discs per day out of them at peak.

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post #15 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 06:17 PM
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Replication issues are not however fundamental to the Blu-ray technology as we now know. Largely, it is a question of ramping up with the proper resources.

With the close of the format war, independents will make the necessary investments, which they have been reluctant to make as long as it was a dicey proposition.
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post #16 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

Yes. Cinram uses Singulus lines and the Cinram Huntsville plant will add 4 dual layer lines within the next six months as we have some open floor space for at least 6 lines. After that, it is either building another addition or moving around existing equipment. Since a Blu-line takes up about the same space as two Spaceline I or II, we will probably start with removing the existing 9 DIC DVD lines and give that space over to printing. We have 32 older Spaceline I which can go as DVD production drops. There are 10 older Spaceline II and 15 Spaceline II-E.

It takes quite a bit of time ( 6 to 8 months ) from placing a machine order to actually having that line up-and-running so don't expect huge quantities of BD until the 2008 holiday season.

Sony DADC is helping Singulus with dual layer BD development so Singulus will be a step behind Sony. Singulus is a world leader in sputtering technology and is probably helping Sony in getting cycle times down. If anyone can figure out a way to avoid using embossing on the 2nd layer, Singulus can.

Kosty. We just finished the latest upgrade on the single layer lines and they are up to about 90% at 4 second cycle time in large runs. The main revisions are the water-cooled disc receivers and the new degassing setup.

I'm on vacation now but I can ask Singulus about how many machines they can assemble this year for both the Huntsville and Olyphant plants. Our 2 BD lines have not run 24/7 for more than a week yet and we were getting about 35,000 discs per day out of them at peak.

It's definitely a good sign to see that things are moving rapidly to accommodate Blu-ray to help mass adoption as the demands grow over the year.
Hopefully these new lines will be up and running before Black Friday 2008 to have Blu-ray discs on the shelves for mass consumption.

2016
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post #17 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

The best news about it is the quick reaction to the news either from last month last week or today.

They seem to have waited for the format war to be over to pull the trigger and anticipate rapid growth.

Well... duh!



I think some of the old HD DVD talking points, such as production will be quickly resolved now that the nasty war is over.

It's good to be on your side, finally! It's like Karl Rove just became pro-blu!



I kid, I kid.

I now look forward to your posts in a whole new way...

skewing those facts against DVD in favor of Blu-ray!!!

Still kidding...

seriously though...

Rock on, Kosty! Take it to those DVD SOBs!!!

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post #18 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Replication capacity was among my biggest concerns for Blu-ray.

If it gets resolved and replicators get ahead of sales and planned release schedules for BD50 production, I will be a happy camper.

Maybe this was part of the Warner decision making assessment. Or if its a consequence of it, I welcome it.

I would bet the former. I was always on the other side of that debate with you. Economies of scale/production ALWAYS follows the demand. If they could make x number with the demand of the day. When demand increases, an industry worth its salt will surely find a way to meet it.
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post #19 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 07:07 PM
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Maxpower had stated that BD50 production would be increased 600% by October of this year.

I assume that this was what he was talking about.

Now if we can get the street price of new releases down to $19.99 at brick and mortar stores we will be cookin!!!!
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post #20 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 07:12 PM
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thank god.

Studios shouldn't have to wait in a 6 month line if QC finds a problem 1 month before release.

this is great news.
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post #21 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Drag'nGT View Post

You and me both. My first Universal purchase will be like Christmas to me.

Yeah, I'm pretty stoked for the inevitable Bourne Ultimatum release.
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post #22 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

...We just finished the latest upgrade on the single layer lines and they are up to about 90% at 4 second cycle time in large runs...

Maybe dumb question: After the discs (be it CD, DVD, HD DVD or BD) are replicated how do you till if each one meets specs (or doesn't doesn't meet specs) and must be discarded?
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post #23 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
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Maybe dumb question: After the discs (be it CD, DVD, HD DVD or BD) are replicated how do you till if each one meets specs (or doesn't doesn't meet specs) and must be discarded?

A signal test is run on the stamper to ensure it is good to go.

Another battery of tests are run on both the clear substrate ( thickness and uniformity ) and the finished disc ( data comparison and defect inspection ) at the machine and via test equipment.

The parts that are left go to printing and the tops are inspected with an imaging camera. The bottom side isn't looked at again after replication but is viewed by QA inspectors and they flip through the discs and inspect them visually. No further inspection is done on the discs after the printing stage so fingerprints and scratches ( from the printing equipment and disc handling at manual pack lines ) are very common defects that happen during the packing process.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dildatonr View Post

thank god.

Studios shouldn't have to wait in a 6 month line if QC finds a problem 1 month before release.

this is great news.

Between production capacity and BluFocus helping with quality control it looks like the only remaining choke point is mastering & transfer. Well at least that last one isn't format specific.

$20 discs please and don't forget the extras.

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post #25 of 232 Old 02-19-2008, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

Yes. Cinram uses Singulus lines and the Cinram Huntsville plant will add 4 dual layer lines within the next six months as we have some open floor space for at least 6 lines. After that, it is either building another addition or moving around existing equipment. Since a Blu-line takes up about the same space as two Spaceline I or II, we will probably start with removing the existing 9 DIC DVD lines and give that space over to printing. We have 32 older Spaceline I which can go as DVD production drops. There are 10 older Spaceline II and 15 Spaceline II-E.

It takes quite a bit of time ( 6 to 8 months ) from placing a machine order to actually having that line up-and-running so don't expect huge quantities of BD until the 2008 holiday season. It took 6 months to deliver and install 6 Spaceline II HD lines.

Sony DADC is helping Singulus with dual layer BD development so Singulus will be a step behind Sony. Singulus is a world leader in sputtering technology and is probably helping Sony in getting cycle times down. If anyone can figure out a way to avoid using embossing on the 2nd layer, Singulus can.

Kosty. We just finished the latest upgrade on the single layer lines and they are up to about 90% at 4 second cycle time in large runs. The main revisions are the water-cooled disc receivers and the new degassing setup.

I'm on vacation now but I can ask Singulus about how many machines they can assemble this year for both the Huntsville and Olyphant plants. Our 2 BD lines have not run 24/7 for more than a week yet and we were getting about 35,000 discs per day out of them at peak.

I hope this will answer all the speculation that BD production is a viable process. I also expect Sony DADC to ramp up production and expand disk production capacity at their plants as well.

I guess 'science fiction' can become reality!

Or was BD ever 'science fiction' to begin with.
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post #26 of 232 Old 02-20-2008, 05:53 AM
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I hope this will answer all the speculation that BD production is a viable process. I also expect Sony DADC to ramp up production and expand disk production capacity at their plants as well.

I guess 'science fiction' can become reality!

Or was BD ever 'science fiction' to begin with.

So was LD, CD and DVD. Only HD DVD, Video CD and CD Video weren't.
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post #27 of 232 Old 02-20-2008, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

A signal test is run on the stamper to ensure it is good to go.

Another battery of tests are run on both the clear substrate ( thickness and uniformity ) and the finished disc ( data comparison and defect inspection ) at the machine and via test equipment.

The parts that are left go to printing and the tops are inspected with an imaging camera. The bottom side isn't looked at again after replication but is viewed by QA inspectors and they flip through the discs and inspect them visually. No further inspection is done on the discs after the printing stage so fingerprints and scratches ( from the printing equipment and disc handling at manual pack lines ) are very common defects that happen during the packing process.

Thanks
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post #28 of 232 Old 02-20-2008, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phansson View Post

Maxpower had stated that BD50 production would be increased 600% by October of this year.

I read that too - great news.
All of the top selling titles have been BD50's anyway (Harry Potter, 300, Casino Royale, etc.) so I don't think anyone has cause for alarm the way things are shaping up.
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post #29 of 232 Old 02-20-2008, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

so fingerprints and scratches ( from the printing equipment and disc handling at manual pack lines ) are very common defects that happen during the packing process.

Wow really?

you mean they do not wear a clean suit or at least gloves????

Do NOT let the magic smoke out because it is impossible to put the magic smoke back in!!!!
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post #30 of 232 Old 02-20-2008, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
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Wow really?

you mean they do not wear a clean suit or at least gloves????

Apparently not, I found oily (actually more like a gob of grease...) smudge marks on one of my brand new discs (Ghost Rider). Cleaned it off and it worked fine though. (I will never get back those 2 hours wasted though )
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