Having VERY bad luck with Warner HD-DVDs! - Page 24 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #691 of 721 Old 03-28-2019, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post
I had numerous bad Warner HD-DVDs in my collection that Warner replaced for me.
I tried to play my "I Am Legend" HD-DVD today in my HD-XA2.
It is one of those short lived "combo" flipper discs (HD-DVD on 1 side, DVD on the other).
This disc loads up, but dies within a minute of starting to play the movie on read errors.
Typical Warner crap HD-DVD product.
Of course I doubt they will provide any customer support these days on HD-DVDs.
That's a shame Rich but you might get a laugh out of this: in my darkened HT I looked at Miami Vice and there was an ugly blotch on the underside. Squinting at the disc it seemed this was the Extended cut and the other side had Theatrical, so I played the Theatrical. Only after the movie was over that I'd watched for two hours did I realize I had played the DVD version of this Combo disc!!!





A testament I suppose to my Sony pj that it upscaled well enough that the PQ didn't take me out of the movie! The next day I decided to rip the HD side with the blotch on it and it ripped with no errors so now I have to watch it again in glorious HD!


Yeah I know it's a Universal picture and not Warner, but still I didn't like that blotch. Watched 3+ hours of King Kong last night and it was awesome indeed. Some of the HD-DVDs were-and-remain spectacular.
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post #692 of 721 Old 03-30-2019, 06:15 PM
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So, I was out running errands, and also picked up my ordered 4K version of "I Am Legend" from the local Best Buy, because they had it on sale.
I guess I am happy to have upgraded my copy of this title in the process of replacing a defective Warner HD-DVD/Combo disc.
However, it still pisses me off to have gotten involved too early with Warner in the HiDef format war between Toshiba & Sony (predominantly).
Warner should pony up some $$ to support their customers who got screwed due to Warner contracting with "cinram" for HD-DVD manufacturing of Warner titles!!

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #693 of 721 Old 03-31-2019, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post
So, I was out running errands, and also picked up my ordered 4K version of "I Am Legend" from the local Best Buy, because they had it on sale.
I guess I am happy to have upgraded my copy of this title in the process of replacing a defective Warner HD-DVD/Combo disc.
However, it still pisses me off to have gotten involved too early with Warner in the HiDef format war between Toshiba & Sony (predominantly).
Warner should pony up some $$ to support their customers who got screwed due to Warner contracting with "cinram" for HD-DVD manufacturing of Warner titles!!
This is a road (very) well travelled, but a couple things:
1. I too am disappointed, though not surprised at WB's poor handling of the mfr defect issue. It seems likely they simply didn't want to deal with the issues of proof-of-purchase, though iirc they might have had a "send in your original disc sleeve showing UPC and we'll send you a BD" at one point. They should still allow that.
2. They should allow every Cinram-manufactured (white ring?) title to be in the Disc to Digital program at Walmart/Vudu. They are specifically called-out in the fine print as not part of the program.

It seems to me that 2. should be relatively easy, and not all that costly, to do for Warner vs handling physical materials and shipping discs. Or they could even allow Vudu to ship physical discs if they truly wanted to pony-up some $$ for us early adopters who had the rug pulled-out from under us.
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post #694 of 721 Old 03-31-2019, 02:19 PM
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To be fair . . Warner DID replace a number of bad HD-DVDs for me a long time ago.
Of course the replacements that gave me are still subject to the same problems as the originals.
In some cases they sent blu-ray replacements, which was preferable as my experience with Warner blu-ray reliability far exceeds the HD-DVDs.
At this stage, since optical media titles are generally purchased in 4K, I'd be happy with some sort of discount coupon that I could use on 4K replacements of bad HD-DVDs.

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post #695 of 721 Old 04-04-2019, 08:05 AM
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FWIW despite that Vudu states that their Disc to Digital program does not work with HD DVDs, one HD DVD that I tried with the iOS app did work to get me the HDX format of The Perfect Storm for $5. EDIT: Tried also "The Searchers" HD DVD and I got both SD and HDX options for purchase. This disc is still working afaict despite that it looks foggy on the backside--I suppose I could rip it for backup or spend $5 bucks and avoid that hassle.

In some cases these movies can be had from Amazon Prime Video for free, and in others the Blu-ray might be very cheap, but if the only path left is Vudu D2D well for $5 bucks it might be worth it for a good movie.

BTW I also tried Deer Hunter HD DVD and that did NOT work (a different movie studio? who knows...) so as always YMMV.
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Last edited by Laserfan; 04-04-2019 at 09:56 AM.
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post #696 of 721 Old 04-12-2019, 12:37 PM
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Warner "I Am Legend" combo HD-DVD disc

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post
So, I was out running errands, and also picked up my ordered 4K version of "I Am Legend" from the local Best Buy, because they had it on sale.
I guess I am happy to have upgraded my copy of this title in the process of replacing a defective Warner HD-DVD/Combo disc.
However, it still pisses me off to have gotten involved too early with Warner in the HiDef format war between Toshiba & Sony (predominantly).
Warner should pony up some $$ to support their customers who got screwed due to Warner contracting with "cinram" for HD-DVD manufacturing of Warner titles!!

so - as I posted before, this HD-DVD combo disc started playing but then locked up in my HD-XA2 player. Multiple cleanings of the disc did not solve the problem. So I took it with me to our mountain cabin, where I still have a HD-A30 connected to a TV. Guess what . . this disc seems to play just fine in the A30! Now I'm wondering if my XA2 is developing a problem with its drive. Or maybe this disc just like high altitudes?

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post #697 of 721 Old 04-12-2019, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post
so - as I posted before, this HD-DVD combo disc started playing but then locked up in my HD-XA2 player. Multiple cleanings of the disc did not solve the problem. So I took it with me to our mountain cabin, where I still have a HD-A30 connected to a TV. Guess what . . this disc seems to play just fine in the A30! Now I'm wondering if my XA2 is developing a problem with its drive. Or maybe this disc just like high altitudes?
I remember starting the HD-DVD of "300" on my LG BH200 player and it started skipping some minutes in. I was able to switch playback to my XA2 and that player had no trouble with those scenes. I realize 300 is not a Warner disc but maybe it speaks to some problem certain players had difficulty with.


I watched The Matrix recently and it was perfect/awesome, but since neither Reloaded nor Revolutions would play at all (nor rip to computer) I revisited my collection again and AFAICT of my 41 Warner HD-DVDs, just 4 are bad, the Matrix two plus Blade Runner Workprint and The Shining. I had also had playback problems with Deer Hunter but was able to skip-thru them, then afterwards I found dirt on it, cleaned it up, and it ripped to PC just fine.


So the problems of this format remain a mystery. One day I'm going to figure-out how to rip them and convert for digital playback on my Apple TV 4K. Maybe then I will donate the discs and 3 players to Goodwill or something.
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post #698 of 721 Old 04-12-2019, 02:00 PM
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You can rip hd-dvds with "Passkey" - a DVDFab program. I believe they still offer a "lite" version for free.
I think I used ClownBD to convert a couple of ripped hd-dvds to blu-ray before they were available on blu-ray.

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post #699 of 721 Old 04-12-2019, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post
You can rip hd-dvds with "Passkey" - a DVDFab program. I believe they still offer a "lite" version for free.
I think I used ClownBD to convert a couple of ripped hd-dvds to blu-ray before they were available on blu-ray.
It seems that makemkv by itself can rip to a mostly operational .mkv file that includes the original audio, but at least Subtitles didn't come-along for me, and .mkv is not something Apple TV knows.


Next if I use Handbrake to make the .mkv Apple-friendly, I lose the 5.1 audio cuz ATV doesn't do Dolby Digital.


So that's why I say I have some noodling to do still re: converting to digital, although I guess I can buy an ATV app called Infuse and it might play the .mkv, which would be the easiest solution (if I can get subs working) albeit an expensive one from a size point-of-view, since makemkv just remuxes the original streams into its container w/o transcoding/compressing.
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post #700 of 721 Old 04-12-2019, 07:08 PM
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see post #11 for my conversion method if you're looking to do it.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/152-h...gital-use.html

worked everytime once I figured it out.

The player and the movies were then donated to the in-Laws' beach house ... and I moved on.
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post #701 of 721 Old 04-13-2019, 07:58 AM
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see post #11 for my conversion method if you're looking to do it.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/152-h...gital-use.html

worked everytime once I figured it out.
Many thanks for the link kcgr. Interesting that you would comment about makemkv that "subtitles wouldn't work all the time" because makemkv subs from my test disc HD-DVD Deer Hunter are not working at all, which has stopped me dead in my tracks.

I have done these before in my foggy past, using eac3to and tsmuxer and x264 and...I forget now, but it included converting the typical SDH subtitles to include just the spoken lines of actors, not [TIRES SQUEALING] and such, since we are hard of hearing but not deaf. Anyway I was hoping for a simple two-step process with makemkv/Handbrake but it seems that may not be possible. Maybe I just need to download srts as you mentioned and pull those into Handbrake. But I have not noticed any video issues with my tests--maybe somewhere since you did yours makemkv got better about that.

As I think about the time & work of converting some 120 HD-DVDs, and indeed many Blu-rays to digital, I am thinking now to only do those movies not available already by some other $$ means (Vudu, iTunes etc).

Last edited by Laserfan; 04-13-2019 at 08:02 AM.
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post #702 of 721 Old 04-13-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
Many thanks for the link kcgr. Interesting that you would comment about makemkv that "subtitles wouldn't work all the time" because makemkv subs from my test disc HD-DVD Deer Hunter are not working at all, which has stopped me dead in my tracks.

I have done these before in my foggy past, using eac3to and tsmuxer and x264 and...I forget now, but it included converting the typical SDH subtitles to include just the spoken lines of actors, not [TIRES SQUEALING] and such, since we are hard of hearing but not deaf. Anyway I was hoping for a simple two-step process with makemkv/Handbrake but it seems that may not be possible. Maybe I just need to download srts as you mentioned and pull those into Handbrake. But I have not noticed any video issues with my tests--maybe somewhere since you did yours makemkv got better about that.

As I think about the time & work of converting some 120 HD-DVDs, and indeed many Blu-rays to digital, I am thinking now to only do those movies not available already by some other $$ means (Vudu, iTunes etc).
120 to convert ... ouch. If I didn't choose to have subtitles, the conversion would have been much faster. But, since people seem to mumble so much these days on screen, I have just gotten into the habit of using subtitles most if not all the time. I tried so many different ways of doing the conversion, but the posted method worked every time. If I didn't care about the subtitles, I prolly would have just used makemkv and called it a day.

You can always just chip away at your disc population and eventually knock them all out. Hopefully you have a reader or can get a cheap one. I grabbed an LG HD-dvd/BD-R drive off ebay for about $25. It was about 10 years old, but worked perfectly to rip then burn to BD-25.

good luck!
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post #703 of 721 Old 04-13-2019, 01:11 PM
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120 to convert ... ouch. If I didn't choose to have subtitles, the conversion would have been much faster. But, since people seem to mumble so much these days on screen, I have just gotten into the habit of using subtitles most if not all the time. I tried so many different ways of doing the conversion, but the posted method worked every time. If I didn't care about the subtitles, I prolly would have just used makemkv and called it a day.

You can always just chip away at your disc population and eventually knock them all out. Hopefully you have a reader or can get a cheap one. I grabbed an LG HD-dvd/BD-R drive off ebay for about $25. It was about 10 years old, but worked perfectly to rip then burn to BD-25.

good luck!
Thanks I have lots of readers!

I will surely post-back here if I find a shorter path to HD-DVD-plus-subtitle conversion joy.
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post #704 of 721 Old 04-22-2019, 09:51 AM
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I'm going to yank the drive out of my Toshiba HD-DVD player and hook it up to my PC to see if Makemkv can rip the movies that haven't dissolved yet.
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post #705 of 721 Old 04-22-2019, 12:32 PM
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I'm going to yank the drive out of my Toshiba HD-DVD player and hook it up to my PC to see if Makemkv can rip the movies that haven't dissolved yet.
That works; at least, it did work for several HD-DVDs that I tried recently.
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post #706 of 721 Old 04-22-2019, 06:52 PM
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I can't believe it. The Toshiba drive in my HD-DVD has an old ATAPI interface! I can't work with that.
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post #707 of 721 Old 05-06-2019, 01:02 PM
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I was never able to figure out the mysterious connector on the HD-DVD drive in my Toshiba player so I put it back in and ordered an LG GGW-H20L BH20L Blu-ray/HD-DVD drive off of eBay.

There are a couple of moderately unnerving things. First, it came from a seller in China but fortunately it only took two weeks to arrive. Second, there is no HD-DVD logo on it al all and nothing on the label that even suggests it can read HD-DVD discs.

But no matter! I plugged it into an ESATA port and it had no problem recognizing and mounting HD-DVD discs. MakeMKV is now happily copying my movies to disk where they'll be safe forever.

Last edited by scowl; 05-06-2019 at 01:23 PM. Reason: correct model number
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post #708 of 721 Old 05-07-2019, 07:46 AM
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I was never able to figure out the mysterious connector on the HD-DVD drive in my Toshiba player so I put it back in and ordered an LG GGW-H20L BH20L Blu-ray/HD-DVD drive off of eBay.

There are a couple of moderately unnerving things. First, it came from a seller in China but fortunately it only took two weeks to arrive. Second, there is no HD-DVD logo on it al all and nothing on the label that even suggests it can read HD-DVD discs.

But no matter! I plugged it into an ESATA port and it had no problem recognizing and mounting HD-DVD discs. MakeMKV is now happily copying my movies to disk where they'll be safe forever.
Good work scowl. FWIW I have several of the LG drives and some have the HD-DVD logo and some do not--go figure!?!?
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post #709 of 721 Old 05-07-2019, 09:42 AM
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This drive is slightly less reliable than the drive in the Toshiba player. My copy of Forbidden Planet (one of the dreaded Warner discs) plays fine in the Toshiba, but the LG drive is giving a read error. Oh well, the Blu-ray is just $15.

As you would expect, the LG drive couldn't resurrect any of the Warner discs. Too bad MakeMKV doesn't have an option to skip over read errors.
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post #710 of 721 Old 05-07-2019, 03:04 PM
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This drive is slightly less reliable than the drive in the Toshiba player. My copy of Forbidden Planet (one of the dreaded Warner discs) plays fine in the Toshiba, but the LG drive is giving a read error. Oh well, the Blu-ray is just $15.

As you would expect, the LG drive couldn't resurrect any of the Warner discs. Too bad MakeMKV doesn't have an option to skip over read errors.
Argh, that's gotta be frustrating. I can only suggest Vudu Disc2Digital might work with those ($5 bucks) but you could also try contacting Warner Digital Customer Service. I did, to suggest to them they might ride-in on white horses to help-out HD-DVD folks like us, and while they ignored that they did offer to replace my own bad discs with digital codes! Had to jump-thru some hoops but scored big on the Matrix Trilogy (my Reloaded and Revolutions discs are bad and to this day I've never seen either movie) when they gave me a digital code for the Trilogy in 4K!

I think I have to give-up on discs and go all-digital--tired of dealing with disc storage, and with playback/player issues. But I have hundreds of HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs I'll have to convert. My project for next winter!
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post #711 of 721 Old 05-07-2019, 03:23 PM
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I think I have to give-up on discs and go all-digital--tired of dealing with disc storage, and with playback/player issues. But I have hundreds of HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs I'll have to convert. My project for next winter!
I'm having nearly as many troubles with streaming. For just one example, I purchased season 5 of The Middle from Amazon. It's streaming since it's not available on DVD. Episode 18 simply will not play. It goes 42 seconds then stops: absolutely no more data comes to my router from Amazon at that point. It's identical on my Roku 4, on my Fire TV, and my Fire Stick.

So for the past week I've been chatting with a support person who does nothing but follow a script. Of course that script orders me to reset everything over and over, switch around cables, and do everything short of rewiring my house. When that doesn't work, they always say they're passing it to their "technical team".

They've done this twice and it's more likely that Warner will replace all my HD-DVDs with Blu-rays than Amazon will fix this problem.
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post #712 of 721 Old 05-08-2019, 08:17 AM
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I'm having nearly as many troubles with streaming. For just one example, I purchased season 5 of The Middle from Amazon. It's streaming since it's not available on DVD. Episode 18 simply will not play. It goes 42 seconds then stops: absolutely no more data comes to my router from Amazon at that point. It's identical on my Roku 4, on my Fire TV, and my Fire Stick.

So for the past week I've been chatting with a support person who does nothing but follow a script. Of course that script orders me to reset everything over and over, switch around cables, and do everything short of rewiring my house. When that doesn't work, they always say they're passing it to their "technical team".

They've done this twice and it's more likely that Warner will replace all my HD-DVDs with Blu-rays than Amazon will fix this problem.
I am brand-spanking-new to streaming, having lived for many years in the country where only Satellite internet (or TV) was available, with no bandwidth for video of any kind. Now in just the last two weeks we have streamed not only Interstellar 4K (iTunes) but also a half-dozen Amazon Prime movies, with zero glitches at all except for some subtitle timing issues w/Interstellar. I've heard of lip sync issues with Amazon but not basic playback...

So I've had good luck so far, but I'm also planning to build a superNAS and try to download everything, though I'm not sure yet how ugly that might be to pull-off given all the DRM questions. And I'm having an impossible time finding anyone who's trying to do exactly what I am (convert existing discs, then download Vudu and iTunes and maybe Amazon content to store at least on the same NAS if not play-back from the same apps).

I now have not only a Fire TV Stick but lately an Apple 4K TV and of course my smart TVs have their own junk. How do normal people, that don't haunt the AV forums like you & me, deal with this stuff!!!?!!!

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post #713 of 721 Old 05-11-2019, 04:12 PM
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So I've had good luck so far, but I'm also planning to build a superNAS and try to download everything, though I'm not sure yet how ugly that might be to pull-off given all the DRM questions. And I'm having an impossible time finding anyone who's trying to do exactly what I am (convert existing discs, then download Vudu and iTunes and maybe Amazon content to store at least on the same NAS if not play-back from the same apps).
Well, what I've done so far is read all of my HD-DVD discs and most of my Blu-ray disc onto a 4TB drive. Of course the space went very quickly and it now contains 386 titles. Now I'm recompressing some of them with HEVC (mainly the television series) which will reduce them 20%-50%. HEVC is a slow compression method so it's taking my fairly fast computer an hour to recompress just ten minutes of video. I've been doing this continuously for over a month.

Another interesting thing is comparing the HD-DVD and Blu-ray files. I had forgotten that most HD-DVDs had compressed audio. I never thought there was anything wrong with Dolby Digital Plus with a very high bitrate so it's kind of annoying to see that nearly every Blu-ray title has DTS-MA 24 bit audio which can take up around a gigabyte of space every hour. I'm tempted to compress those audio tracks with DD+ at 1.7 Mbps since I can't really hear any difference.
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post #714 of 721 Old 05-12-2019, 07:42 AM
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...DTS-MA 24 bit audio which can take up around a gigabyte of space every hour. I'm tempted to compress those audio tracks with DD+ at 1.7 Mbps since I can't really hear any difference.
I'm with ya, heck 384Kbps (almost) works for my old tired ears, but I want to try to minimize the re-encoding and just re-mux everything as-is if possible. I have 25TB to work with.
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post #715 of 721 Old 05-21-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
I'm with ya, heck 384Kbps (almost) works for my old tired ears, but I want to try to minimize the re-encoding and just re-mux everything as-is if possible. I have 25TB to work with.
After watching a bunch of HD-DVDs with compressed Dolby Digital Plus (E-AC3) audio, I've decided that I'm going to start compressing the audio of my Blu-rays when I rip them. It's ridiculous for the audio of an episode of Star Trek with mostly mono audio to take up a gigabyte of disk. DD+ with 1.7 Mbps audio sounds identical to me.
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post #716 of 721 Old 05-21-2019, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by scowl View Post
After watching a bunch of HD-DVDs with compressed Dolby Digital Plus (E-AC3) audio, I've decided that I'm going to start compressing the audio of my Blu-rays when I rip them. It's ridiculous for the audio of an episode of Star Trek with mostly mono audio to take up a gigabyte of disk. DD+ with 1.7 Mbps audio sounds identical to me.
Well I don't disagree assuming I can find a tool that can do this on-the-fly i.e. painlessly and with relatively little time involved. I'm getting dizzy trying to figure-out a plan, one where I keep original video. So far it seems Clown_BD 0.81 will do HD-DVDs best, then I might use either BD-Rebuilder or CloneBD to do the Blu-rays, which is where the huge audio is involved. What tools do you like?
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post #717 of 721 Old 05-21-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
What tools do you like?
I'm using MakeMKV to rip the HD-DVDs and Blu-rays and simple ffmpeg from the command line to compress them. The command line I'm using now is:

Code:
ffmpeg -i file.mkv -c:v libx265 -x265-params crf=17 -preset medium -c:a eac3 -ab 1700k out.mkv
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post #718 of 721 Old 05-22-2019, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by scowl View Post
I'm using MakeMKV to rip the HD-DVDs and Blu-rays and simple ffmpeg from the command line to compress them. The command line I'm using now is:

Code:
ffmpeg -i file.mkv -c:v libx265 -x265-params crf=17 -preset medium -c:a eac3 -ab 1700k out.mkv
Thanks. Having trouble w/your math. I'd said 384Kbps worked for my ears, but you are converting to 1700kbps? Izzat right? It seems to me the most comment AC3 is 640kbps?
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post #719 of 721 Old 05-22-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post
Thanks. Having trouble w/your math. I'd said 384Kbps worked for my ears, but you are converting to 1700kbps? Izzat right? It seems to me the most comment AC3 is 640kbps?
Set it to whatever you want. Old AC3 can't go past 640 Kbps but 1.7 Mbps is the standard bit rate for E-AC3 on HD-DVD. It's still a small fraction of what DTS-MA and TrueHD require.
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post #720 of 721 Old 05-22-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by scowl View Post
Set it to whatever you want. Old AC3 can't go past 640 Kbps but 1.7 Mbps is the standard bit rate for E-AC3 on HD-DVD. It's still a small fraction of what DTS-MA and TrueHD require.
Gotcha. I confused myself by forgetting you were referring only to BDs with no doubt the various outrageous e.g. "Master Audio" bitrates. I may take your lead in this vs. going full-bore un-converted, since audio takes so much less time to compress.
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