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post #1 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
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At the bottom of this post is a link to an iso image of HD MPEG-2 test patterns created by AVS Forum member dr1394. This image when burned to a DVD-/+R will be recognized as an HD DVD by the Toshiba/RCA players. It is not an all-inclusive collection of the authors test patterns, but simply the patterns I was interested in to test my player and display. My primary concern was whether or not the Sony KDF-55WF655 was properly deinterlacing 1080i content, which was brought to my attention by the article "Are You Getting All the HDTV Resolution You Expected?" at the Home Theater Magazine website and the AVS Forum thread " Tested and Failed: throwing away half the Resolution by Gary Merson" discussing this. The vertical resolution pattern tests on this disc did provide the answer. Hopefully, any questions regarding these test patterns will be answered by dr1394 or someone knowledgeable in this field. These individual patterns and many more may be downloaded from his website http://www.w6rz.net

Test patterns included on the disc:

*Vertical Resolution Patterns*

Alternating black/white 1, 2, 3 and 4 pixel strips 1920x1080
Alternating black/white 1 pixel full field 1920x1080
Alternating black/white 2 pixels full field 1920x1080

*Vertical Resolution Pattern with Motion*
Alternating black/white 1, 2, 3 and 4 pixel strips with moving interlaced bar 1920x1080

*Vertical Resolution Patterns with Motion and 3:2 pulldown*
Alternating black/white 1, 2, 3 and 4 pixel strips with moving bar 1920x1080
Alternating black/white 1, 2, 3 and 4 pixel strips with moving bar, RFF flags that drop to video when bar is horizontal 1920x1080
Alternating black/white 1, 2, 3 and 4 pixel strips with moving bar, 24p video bitstream 1920x1080

*Horizontal Resolution Patterns*
20 to 35 MHz 100% bursts 1920x1080
Alternating black/white 1 pixel full field 1920x1080
Alternating black/white 2 pixels full field 1920x1080

*Color Bar Patterns*
Rec. 601 75% Color Bars with Pluge 1920x1080
Rec. 709 75% Color Bars with Pluge 1920x1080

*IRE Bar Patterns*
0 to 100 IRE Bars (10 IRE steps) 1920x1080
0 to 100 IRE Split Bars (10 IRE steps) 1920x1080

*Ramp and IRE Bar Pattern*
Level 1 to 254 Ramp and -5 to 105 IRE Bars (5 IRE steps) 1920x1080

*Y/C Delay Patterns*
Y/C Delay Bars (with Rec. 709 colors) 1920x1080
4:2:2 Y/C Delay Bars (with Rec. 709 colors) 1920x1080

The iso may be download at http://www.w6rz.net/hdtestpatterns.zip

Robert
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post #2 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 10:04 AM
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Well assuming you have the Dr.'s permission to share these. Thanks! I tried to down load patterns that Pettinen was sharing and hte image was not recognized by the Toshiba. I will gladly give these a try.

Just enjoy HD in whatever form you can (Sat, Cable, D-VHS, OTA, HD DVD, or BD).
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post #3 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 11:14 AM
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I burned the iso to a DVD-R and the A1 says "No disc" when loaded. Any suggestions? I've burned 5 - 10 firmware updates for various things onto CD the same way with success. The media is just what's different now.

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post #4 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 11:17 AM
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Thank you so much! Is there any special way (or program to use) that you have to burn these?

Also, which color bars should be used to calibrate through HDMI, 601 or 709?

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post #5 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 12:01 PM
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DR. is ok with it, he also has them to download on his website(the .ts files) as Robert mentioned

-Gary
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post #6 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 12:13 PM
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A newbie question. . .

Are these patterns only relevent for 1080 displays? I have a Panny 1366 x 768, and I'm not sure these would be meaningful on my display.

Thanks.
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post #7 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 12:23 PM
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Quote:


Is there any special way (or program to use) that you have to burn these?

Try ImgBurn 2.0

http://www.imgburn.com/index.php?act=download

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post #8 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 01:00 PM
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Thanks for the iso file. I downloaded and uncompressed it with the built in Windows XP extraction. Then used dvd decryptor to burn the iso to a dvd-r disc. No problem recognizing it on the RCA HD-DVD. Didn't have time to go through the tests, just verified that the player would recognize it.
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post #9 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 01:10 PM
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IMGburn did the trick. Thanks

If we could only get some more info as to what the patterns are suppose to look like and what it means when/how they can be different from reference. I was excited to see that the disc played perfectly with the intro credit for dr. and all.

Thanks

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post #10 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bakpakva View Post

Thanks for the iso file. I downloaded and uncompressed it with the built in Windows XP extraction. Then used dvd decryptor to burn the iso to a dvd-r disc. No problem recognizing it on the RCA HD-DVD. Didn't have time to go through the tests, just verified that the player would recognize it.

So it's not a straight iso burn (copy) to DVD? Because you used DVD decryptor...

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post #11 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

So it's not a straight iso burn (copy) to DVD? Because you used DVD decryptor...

larry

DVD DeCrypter is what ImgBurn was called before the MPAA lawsuit (minus the DVD ripping part)

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post #12 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

So it's not a straight iso burn (copy) to DVD? Because you used DVD decryptor...

larry

It is a straight burn, once you have the iso file. It is zipped when you download it. Just don't make the mistake of unzipping it with winRAR like I did the first time, or it will extract it into individual files. The file you want to burn is called hdtestparterns.iso. Use whatever program you are familar with. I just happen to like DVD Decrypter as I already have it on my computer (for other purposes).
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post #13 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 01:52 PM
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ImgBurn worked! First I've had a problem with my other (free) program. It is the first DVD iso I've burned with it, though. Judging from the pluge on this disc the SD DVE disc patterns get you the same brightness setting; and contrast for that matter. The ramps look the same.

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post #14 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 03:50 PM
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I wonder if the Toshiba is really playing this as Hd and not upconverting it like any other dvd file. The reason I say this is because when you navigate thru a Hd DVD there are no arrows, play icons etc, but on these "HD" patterns it has them like on a SD DVD. So Are we really getting HD patterns or the same patterns as upconverting Avia or DVE?

Just enjoy HD in whatever form you can (Sat, Cable, D-VHS, OTA, HD DVD, or BD).
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post #15 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 04:34 PM - Thread Starter
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As I mentioned in my original post, my intention was to determine whether my tv was properly deinterlacing 1080i content. All but one of the vertical resolution patterns contain alternating black/white 1 pixel strips that will test for this. If the display shows solid thin black and white strips without flashing then it is properly deinterlacing 1080i. Some of the patterns include motion and 3:2 pulldown as some displays deinterlace properly until motion is introduced over the area of those pixels. For example, my tv flashes all the alternating black/white 1 pixel strips. It is my understanding that it is taking a single 540 line field (1920x540) and doubling it (called bobbing), instead of weaving the next 540 line field with it and then scaling to the display's native resolution of 1366x768. So, my set is not properly deinterlacing 1080i content and I can't experience the full glory of HD DVD like many of you can.
I am curious to know how many of you have displays that properly deinterlace 1080i, if you would care to respond.

As far as the rest of the patterns go, I am not qualified to comment on them.

Robert
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post #16 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Spackman View Post

I wonder if the Toshiba is really playing this as Hd and not upconverting it like any other dvd file. The reason I say this is because when you navigate thru a Hd DVD there are no arrows, play icons etc, but on these "HD" patterns it has them like on a SD DVD. So Are we really getting HD patterns or the same patterns as upconverting Avia or DVE?

Jon,

Always the pessimist, huh? I'm just trying to provide easy access to something I felt might be helpful to others. Jeez! Yes, the patterns are 1920x1080 "HD".

Robert
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post #17 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Spackman View Post

I wonder if the Toshiba is really playing this as Hd and not upconverting it like any other dvd file. The reason I say this is because when you navigate thru a Hd DVD there are no arrows, play icons etc, but on these "HD" patterns it has them like on a SD DVD. So Are we really getting HD patterns or the same patterns as upconverting Avia or DVE?

That's a good question. What does the front display of the Toshiba say, DVD or HD-DVD? I'm going to play around with this tonight when I get home but, I'm no expert.

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post #18 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolltide1017 View Post

That's a good question. What does the front display of the Toshiba say, DVD or HD-DVD? I'm going to play around with this tonight when I get home but, I'm no expert.

I downloaded the file, unzipped it, opened the ISO file with nero6 and selected DVD-R and burned it. Did a quick play and the HD-A1 seen it at a HD DVD.

These tests are questionable with questionable DVD Authoring Software that created them, with no professional oscilloscope testing from this disc. I wouldn't take these tests as absolute until a professional HD DVD calibration disc is released.

...Angelo

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post #19 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 05:38 PM
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When playing the disk, it says HDDVD. I have no idea what some of these test mean, but here are my results using the RCA HD player (1.4) and the Panny E700 LCD projector (720p )set to 1080i input through HDMI.

Test 1: Alt. B/W 1,2,3,4 - My top bar flickers, 2nd bar is wide and narrow, and rest ok.
Test 2: 1 pixel full- Flickering, but I do see bars and white spaces clearly
Test 3: 2 Pixel full - no flickering, but lines are thick and thin alternating
Test4: 1234 w/bar: Very weird things happen. Shadowing on the top bar, 5 trailing edges. A few trailing edges on the 2nd bar. The revolving bar is also double near the ends.
Test5: Alt B/W 1234 with moving bar- The revolving bar is doubled, but no flickering or trailing shadows.
Test 6:20-35 cycles: Not sure what to make of this. The panels are not uniform in some of the squares, the first block on row 1, and the first two blocks on row 2 have patterns to them.
Test7: Alt b/w 1 full - seems ok, no flicker
Test8 : Alt b/w 2 full- no flickering, but pattern of lines are 1 dark, followed by 2 ligher thicker bars.

On the color bar tests, I notice a thin darkblue vertical line between the green and magenta bars. Perhaps that is my pixel misalignment?

I stopped at this point. Not sure what it all means. There was a couple of times that the HDDVD player did some weird things when I used the rev and then play buttons during the revolving bar test. It would slow down then speed up playback. Stopping the player and starting over fixed it.

I also noticed jumbled bars when some of the pixel tests started, for just a brief moment, then the lines would become clear. It was like it was locking onto the signal or something. Hard to describe.

A fun disk, even though it is beyond me at the present time.
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post #20 of 130 Old 08-06-2006, 08:07 PM
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I tried the vert res tests on my Qualia 004. At 1080i/60 into the qualia via DVI through the Lumagen scalar all is fine. At 1080i/60 from the player directly to the Qualia 004 via HDMI all is fine.

At 1080p24sf out of the Lumagen some of the tests fail. I wonder if they should all pass at 1080p24sf or not? In particular Chapter 8 that states it is 1080p24 fails for me at that output resolution, but passes if I send 1080i/60 rather than 1080p24sf to the projector. Chapters 6 and 7 pass fine sending 1080p24sf or 1080i/60 output to the Qualia 004 from the Lumagen Scalar.

I see what's happening. Most of the chapters pass fine on the Lumagen in 1080i/60 or 1080p24sf mode, but some of them are detected as VIDEO and never enter film mode, including chapter 8 which claims to be 1080p24.

For the video detected chapters, the test doesn't pass at 1080p24sf (but passes at 1080i/60). Most chapters fall into film mode quickly and stay there, like chapters 6 and 7 on the disc. For some reason Chapter 8 is detected as video and stays VIDEO despite being 1080p24.

At any rate all chapters pass fine at 1080i/60 some chapters are detected as video and those don't pass when the lumagen is set to 1080p24sf, the chapters that are detected as film pass fine at 1080p24sf or 1080i/60.

For what it's worth the 1080p/24 mastered movie discs are detected as FILM by the lumagen when set to ouput 1080p24sf and they always look fine.
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post #21 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 01:35 AM
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There's a good chance that the [email protected] clip is not working as intended. HD-DVD does not allow that frame rate, and I would guess that the Ulead authoring package (I assume that was what was used to build the iso) would have re-encoded the clip. Unless I actually look at the bitstream, I can't say how it would have been re-encoded.

The 4:2:2 Y/C delay pattern is not a good one to include. It could easily lock up the decoder in the Toshiba (unless it's 4:2:2 capable, which opens up a whole new realm of possibilities).

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post #22 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo913 View Post

I downloaded the file, unzipped it, opened the ISO file with nero6 and selected DVD-R and burned it. Did a quick play and the HD-A1 seen it at a HD DVD.

These tests are questionable with questionable DVD Authoring Software that created them, with no professional oscilloscope testing from this disc. I wouldn't take these tests as absolute until a professional HD DVD calibration disc is released.

...Angelo

I understand your apprehension. However, I am a professional and I guarantee the accuracy of the original test patterns. Unfortunately, the Ulead authoring package is a wild card since it can re-encode.

I'll have to download the iso and see if I can detect clips that have been re-encoded.

Ron

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post #23 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

I understand your apprehension. However, I am a professional and I guarantee the accuracy of the original test patterns. Unfortunately, the Ulead authoring package is a wild card since it can re-encode.

I'll have to download the iso and see if I can detect clips that have been re-encoded.

Ron

I working on one using Apple's DVD studio Pro 4 which accepts 24p without rencoding the video. (I know the menus, ac3, and h.264 video doesnt work yet) but atleast you can do 24p mpeg2.

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post #24 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

I understand your apprehension. However, I am a professional and I guarantee the accuracy of the original test patterns. Unfortunately, the Ulead authoring package is a wild card since it can re-encode.

I'll have to download the iso and see if I can detect clips that have been re-encoded.

Ron

Scoping the component video outs with this test disc is the best way to ensure that the test patterns are generated properly as I question the Authoring/Encoding Software used and no the Test Patterns. If you can verify this that will be great!

I did use the "Rec. 709 75% Color Bars with Pluge 1920x1080" test pattern to fine tune my HDTV's Color, Tint and Brightness (or Black Level).

Thanks...Angelo

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post #25 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 09:08 AM
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Ron (dr1394) worked closely with Scott (GetGray) to develop the GetGray Calibration disc, and during the course of the project the two of them discovered inaccuracies in the "professional" discs - inaccuracies caused mostly by encoding errors. As such the two of them worked closely to insure the utmost accuracy in Scott's calibration disc, and it is the single most valuable test disc in my collection (and I own all but Avia Pro). I have 100% faith in the accuracy of Ron's HD patterns, but as been correctly pointed out, the encoding process may or may not have introduced changes into the original patterns. I would like to hear from Ron before I put too much faith in the accuracy of this .ISO, as what good would it be to use a calibration disc which is not accurate?

Ron really knows his stuff! I personally will wait for his green light before proceeding any further.

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post #26 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RAFABAMAD View Post

As I mentioned in my original post, my intention was to determine whether my tv was properly deinterlacing 1080i content. All but one of the vertical resolution patterns contain alternating black/white 1 pixel strips that will test for this. If the display shows solid thin black and white strips without flashing then it is properly deinterlacing 1080i. Some of the patterns include motion and 3:2 pulldown as some displays deinterlace properly until motion is introduced over the area of those pixels. For example, my tv flashes all the alternating black/white 1 pixel strips. It is my understanding that it is taking a single 540 line field (1920x540) and doubling it (called bobbing), instead of weaving the next 540 line field with it and then scaling to the display's native resolution of 1366x768. So, my set is not properly deinterlacing 1080i content and I can't experience the full glory of HD DVD like many of you can.
I am curious to know how many of you have displays that properly deinterlace 1080i, if you would care to respond.

As far as the rest of the patterns go, I am not qualified to comment on them.

For resolution testing, I think the top bar will still flicker even with full res. if you do not have a 1920 x 1080 display. In other words, for a 720p display, 720 lines is the maximum so it's impossible to display 1 pixel wide increments at 1080.

With my Lumagen HDP 1:1 mapped to my 720p Panny ae900 projector, all of the 1-pixel patterns flash and all of the 2 pixel and above patterns were displayed properly.

My Lumagen also stayed in video mode for the 1080p24 film detection chapter.

Those of us with 720p/768p displays need 1280 x 720 patterns I think.

If someone could extrapolate the 20-35 mhz patterns to pixel resolutions that might give an idea of resolution performance to those of us with less than 1080p displays. As I recall, those are only horizontal resolution patterns, though.
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post #27 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

The 4:2:2 Y/C delay pattern is not a good one to include. It could easily lock up the decoder in the Toshiba (unless it's 4:2:2 capable, which opens up a whole new realm of possibilities).

Ron

I use 4:2:2 currently with the A1. This requires firmware V 1.2 or higher.
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post #28 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 03:04 PM
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For resolution testing, I think the top bar will still flicker even with full res. if you do not have a 1920 x 1080 display. In other words, for a 720p display, 720 lines is the maximum so it's impossible to display 1 pixel wide increments at 1080.

Using the 720p Optoma H79 w/Vantage HD I get no filckering.

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post #29 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Using the 720p Optoma H79 w/Vantage HD I get no filckering.

Hmm. Don't know why uzun would pass using his Lumagen while mine would fail as the only difference should be our display resolutions. You are seeing alternating black/white horizontal lines in the top box without flickering?

I'll have to play with it some more.
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post #30 of 130 Old 08-07-2006, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomHuffman View Post

Using the 720p Optoma H79 w/Vantage HD I get no filckering.

Not sure how you got 1 pixel 1080 without flicker on a 720 projector, but I am happy for you.
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