Bluray BD-J delays causing HD DVD releases to be HELD BACK?! - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT: Thursday Feb 15th '07 - After this thread was posted and many, many supporters of the Hi Def formats sent letters to Warner, Warner responded with a great letter back (which is covered in this thread also) letting us know that it is not their policy to hold back any releases on either format in order to wait for the other format.

The also said they would be getting our some "thrilling" titles in April and May.

Wel, we waited eagerly, and....

SURE ENOUGH! The Matrix trilogy HAS indeed been announced for release on May 22nd!!

GREAT WORK, Everyone!!


This one really "concerns" me greatly, if true.

Over in the bluray software topic there is a new thread which seems to acknowledge that the advanced BD-J IME authoring tools are not ready for the studios yet movie releases on Bluray are possibly giving trouble and studios may be having difficulties testing and completing them, due to a lack of actual Bluray players that can play them, since none can yet handle BD-Video or BD-Live. https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=796592

But because of all the Bluray pressure on studios like Warner (when BR fans thought they were "favouring" HD DVD) and possibly New Line, it seems they are reluctant to release the HD DVD versions of big hits like the Matrix Trilogy and Harry Potter and LOTR trilogy in the US market until the Bluray version is ready.

Capping this concern was the recent explanation of apparent policy given by Warner in response to accusations of favouritism by the Bluray camp, discussed here https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5&page=1&pp=30

Are they concerned of being accused by the BD camp again of picking favourites in the "war"?

So here WE are, HD DVD owners, with hardly any releases right now because they are apparently being withheld by studios to wait until the Bluray versions are ready too!?

As you know, a french website DVD Drama published the release calendar of Warner in France, and it showed many BIG MOVIES that were HD DVD -only- such as Matrix, Harry Potter, etc. This definitely supports the notion that the Bluray versions are not ready yet, IMO.

A post in this other thread also indicates that the BD-J advanced authoring/testing tools may not be available to studios until the SECOND HALF of this year!? Certainly, it'll be months before BDJ 1.1 or 2.0 players are on the market.

Tell me what you think of THAT, folks?

EDIT: We have a little more information now. It seems that testing of the BDJ advanced functionality on some of these future releases is proving quite difficult, as there are no currently shipping players that can handle this functionality.

As a result, it appears that testing is having to be done on players that are complete yet, or aren't even built. This is supposedly slowing studios like Warner from being able to release the Bluray titles (per Grubert's thread) and - because they seem to be afraid to release HD DVD before Bluray - it seems therefore, to be a big factor causing the HD DVD titles to be delayed.

EDIT: A post by Paidgeek states that there ARE no such things as "authoring tools" for BDJ

Contact Warner Now!!

I suggest that you keep it nice:
1) We love the company and appreciate the support they have given HD DVD - but we have this problem we'd like to discuss...
2) We love buying their movies
3) We are shocked and dismayed to learn that they may be holding back "key" release titles because Bluray is not yet ready - this is not fair and could hurt the HD DVD format
4) Please release these titles on HD DVD now - the format is ready for them
5) When "advanced profile" Bluray players are ready, they can test and release their Bluray versions at that time
6) The HD DVD format needs their support today and the format can handle all their advanced content - please release the movies now!


Here's where to contact them, hit all three:

IF YOU get an ERROR page on either of the forms, just hit the "Retry" button on your browser.

Customer Service Form - http://www2.warnerbros.com/web/main/...er_service.jsp
Choose "DVD / Video" from the pulldown menu.

Fan Mail Form - http://www2.warnerbros.com/web/main/help/fan_mail.jsp
Enter "HD DVD" as the name of your favourite star.

Email Address - [email protected]

Here is the letter that supporters are sending to Warner. You can use this to contact them as it is very positive and recognizes the solid contribution they have made to date

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9634620

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK - I've also done a poll. Do you think that Warner should release the big hits on both formats NOW, regardless of whether BD-Video interactive stuff is ready?

Or do you think they should hold back the releases on BOTH formats until all the BD-J advanced IME BD-Video stuff is ALL sorted out?

POLL IS HERE - https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=797764

Related Thread - HDDVD Supporters needed..... PLEASE READ
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post #2 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 01:48 PM
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Good for us cause I don't think movie studios will want to keep those HD-DVD's waiting on the shelf.....well....any longer.
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post #3 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 01:55 PM
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You could almost assume it's a ploy by the BDA to bleed the format dry until fall, which by then they hope all interest and support will have dried up. I just don't get Warner sometimes.
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post #4 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 01:56 PM
 
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Though I am neutral at this point I think holding up HD DVD releases to wait for the Blu-ray camp to get their collective behinds together is ridiculous. Let the best format rule. And if that means the format that truly has its crap together, HD DVD in this case, so be it. Maybe it is time to petition Warner and Paramount?
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post #5 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 01:58 PM
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Well this has been known for sometime that this was happening here. Warner has said that (read it somewhere here) they are holding off on releasing titles in the US until they can do dual formal releases on the same day. It sux and IMO shouldnt be happening, but since I have taken to the fact that this is happening and I just have to wait I am waiting
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post #6 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 02:03 PM
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This is not new. I beleive this is why we haven't gotten the Matrix trilogy yet, probably quite a few others too.
J
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post #7 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 02:07 PM
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This is clearly not a "war" in any sense. If it were a war, Warner would be releasing titles that are ready on HD DVD irrespective of whether there's even so much as a thought of releasing the same title on Blu-ray. They should most definitely *NOT* be developing TotalHD and other nonsense to cause customer confusion.

Holding up releases that are (apparently) ready on one format just so there isn't a "head start" or some other advantage is ridiculous. If Blu-ray is down, I see nothing wrong with kicking them (release HP series, The Matrix, etc)...
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post #8 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Warner seems afraid to upset the other camp.

I think we should encourage Warner to tell BD to stuff themselves and go ahead with the HD DVD releases that are ready regardless.

Does anyone apart from the BD fans disagree with that?
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post #9 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 02:12 PM
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The only thing that might make sense that Warner was either given a bigger piece of the BD forum pie and working with Sony, (hence the knowledge and access needed to create 'TotalHD' discs) or are intentionally trying to sustain both formats equally so they can get every studio on board and using 'TotalHD'. Or maybe they are trying to stagnate both markets so that Time Warner cable can sneak in the back door with HD on demand movies for all of their nationwide subscribers.

Personally, I hate the way they have been flipping all over the place lately. HD DVD was supposed to be their format.
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post #10 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 02:16 PM
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Quote:


Warner seems afraid to upset the other camp.

I think we should encourage Warner to tell BD to stuff themselves and go ahead with the HD DVD releases that are ready regardless.

Does anyone apart from the BD fans disagree with that?

Nope. I agree completely. There was no point in Warner supporting HD DVD in the beginning if they were intending to just wait for Blu Ray to play catch-up. HD DVD performed far beyond any expectations, and the PS3 and Blu Ray perform far below expectations... and they want to wait for Blu Ray to catch up?

They have an ulterior motive.
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post #11 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 02:21 PM
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I say email them and complain. Tell them you don't like it,and use HPGOF as a perfect example. How others have imported it, paying more than they would have here, or that if they don't hurry up you will have to import it. I know they still get the money for it either way, but maybe if they get enough complaint they will realize how much money they are leaving on the table, as they would say.

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post #12 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 02:33 PM
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Best option to put pressure is to Import and Import all these titles ...so they can see how much volume on sales they are loosing. I already got my HD DVD copy of Harry Potter 4 from UK.
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post #13 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 02:50 PM
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Warner's TotalHD need some BDA backing for it to lift off, nothing more.
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post #14 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 04:12 PM - Thread Starter
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We have a little more information now. It seems that testing of the BDJ advanced functionality on some of these future releases is proving quite difficult, as there are no currently shipping players that can handle this functionality.

As a result, it appears that testing is having to be done on players that are complete yet, or aren't even built. This is slowing studios like Warner from being able to release the Bluray titles and - because they seem to be afraid to release HD DVD before Bluray - it is therefore causing the HD DVD titles to be delayed.
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post #15 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 04:24 PM
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This is an example of the desperate attempt of BDA to force feed consumers their Bluray crap. If the titles being held up by studios were to be released today, Bluray would be dead in the water. I'm getting really fed up with this whole transition to HD disc format. My first venture into early adaptor territory. I just want more titles on HD-DVD. I want to be able to go and buy any new release on HD-DVD. Until that day somes, I want be satisfied. I almost purchased a 20gb PS3 to be able to play bluray movies, because of this pressure. I say be patient and HD-DVD will be victorious.
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post #16 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 04:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

Nope. I agree completely. There was no point in Warner supporting HD DVD in the beginning if they were intending to just wait for Blu Ray to play catch-up. HD DVD performed far beyond any expectations, and the PS3 and Blu Ray perform far below expectations... and they want to wait for Blu Ray to catch up?

They have an ulterior motive.

Actually, I can think of a very valid reason. In fact 2.

1. They may be trying to prove their neutrality to get studios to buy into the THD disk concept - not gonna happen (IMHO).

2. They may be using this to put pressure on the BDA to either deliver BD-J or lose their neutrality.

IF Warner wanted to be truly neutral, all they have to do is release both versions without IME. I am not sure they are leaving money on the table by releasing titles without IME (although I have to say I liked the IME for Harry Potter ).

While Warner may be saying they want one format, their actions seem to imply they indeed want 2!

Why create THD, if you expect it to go away
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post #17 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 04:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Contact Warner Now!!

I suggest that you keep it nice:
1) We love the company and appreciate the support they have given HD DVD
2) We love buying their movies
3) We are shocked and dismayed to learn that they may be holding back "key" release titles because Bluray is not yet ready - this is not fair and could hurt the HD DVD format
4) Please release these titles on HD DVD now - the format is ready for them
5) When "advanced profile" Bluray players are ready, they can test and release their Bluray versions at that time
6) The HD DVD format needs their support today and the format can handle all their advanced content - please release the movies now!


Here's where to contact them, hit all three:

IF YOU get an ERROR page on either of the forms, just hit the "Retry" button on your browser.

Customer Service Form - http://www2.warnerbros.com/web/main/...er_service.jsp
Choose "DVD / Video" from the pulldown menu.

Fan Mail Form - http://www2.warnerbros.com/web/main/help/fan_mail.jsp
Enter "HD DVD" as the name of your favourite star.

Email Address - [email protected]

Here's an example of the letter my brother and I have sent:

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9634620
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post #18 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not so sure, Plazman.

I think they'd generally like to release titles as soon as they are ready, but have been facing a lot of heat behind the scenes for anything that may advantage HD DVD over Bluray.

Remember how many more titles were appearing on HD DVD from Warner last year? Remember all the posts by Bluray fans that Warner was favouring HD DVD and how passionate they were getting?

I think that the BDA guys are trying hard to keep Warner in a holding pattern till Bluray is ready with these new profiles.

And furthermore, since Warner is one of the MAIN sources of HD DVD releases, it HURTS the format tremendously when there are fewer releases dropping.

It is just outrageous that this paucity of releases ends up being a result of Bluray issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Actually, I can think of a very valid reason. In fact 2.

1. They may be trying to prove their neutrality to get studios to buy into the THD disk concept - not gonna happen (IMHO).

2. They may be using this to put pressure on the BDA to either deliver BD-J or lose their neutrality.

IF Warner wanted to be truly neutral, all they have to do is release both versions without IME. I am not sure they are leaving money on the table by releasing titles without IME (although I have to say I liked the IME for Harry Potter ).

While Warner may be saying they want one format, their actions seem to imply they indeed want 2!

Why create THD, if you expect it to go away

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post #19 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 04:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I'm not so sure, Plazman.

I think they'd generally like to release titles as soon as they are ready, but have been facing a lot of heat behind the scenes for anything that may advantage HD DVD over Bluray.

Remember how many more titles were appearing on HD DVD from Warner last year? Remember all the posts by Bluray fans that Warner was favouring HD DVD and how passionate they were getting?

I think that the BDA guys are trying hard to keep Warner in a holding pattern till Bluray is ready with these new profiles.

And furthermore, since Warner is one of the MAIN sources of HD DVD releases, it HURTS the format tremendously when there are fewer releases dropping.

It is just outrageous that this paucity of releases ends up being a result of Bluray issues.

I'm curious, who within the BDA could be putting pressure on Warner? Aren't they responsible for their own business model?
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post #20 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 04:51 PM
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My opinion is they want THD to be OK'd by the BDA so they are holding things up. The Matrix was promised last summer, but somewhere along the way they decided to try a dual-format disc, and let the files sit on a computer somewhere. Meanwhile, the BD fanboys point a finger at us about the slow releases of HD DVD and WB is fueling the fire.

WB has to have another motive. You can be neutral and still release the movies you have at different times. WB is a lot like my wife. Sitting on a gold mine and wont work it.

WB needs to do what they have to do and screw BD. Probably wont happen. They obviously spent a fair amount in R&D in THD, and want to recoup it. But still, this suck.

I hate BD...
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post #21 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT:

This is the letter that has been sent to HD DVD supporters in our petition. Please feel free to use this letter to contact Warner, as it is very positive and recognizes the solid contribution they have made to the format to date:

Quote:


Dear Warner Home Video,

I am an owner of the HD DVD video format and would like to first express my true appreciation and gratitude for the wonderful support you have provided the format, in the form of fantastic releases to HD DVD. Your contribution has truly helped demonstrate what this remarkable format is capable of and has given me hours of enjoyment.

However, I am writing today to express my great concern at discussions that Warner may be holding back releases of many HD DVD movie titles. Apparently, this is due to TWO factors. One, a new policy of Warner Home Video that it would not release any HD DVDs without the matching Bluray version. Two, that problems being encountered in developing Advanced (IME) BD-Video content on the Bluray format have caused many titles to be delayed (see https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2&page=1&pp=30 ).

While I fully respect that the intentions of this new policy were GOOD, I would like to point out that, given the special circumstances occasioned by said Bluray development problems, these good intentions are actually now causing great damage to the HD DVD format.

Due to your greatly reduced volume of releases on the format, HD DVD movie sales have slowed dramatically for lack of content, and this could hurt the format badly in the ongoing "format war". As such, I would like you to know that I believe this to be a bad policy, no matter how good the intentions for it were - and implore you to reconsider this policy URGENTLY.

I do not think it is fair that the HD DVD format should be penalised for the complexities and development problems of the competing format. In fact, shouldn't it be the other way around? If HD DVD is easier and quicker to develop for, shouldn't these releases be allowed to hit the street as soon as they are ready? There is a discussion about this exact point here https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4&page=1&pp=30

In fact, very many Bluray supporters feel the same way. In an online poll here https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=797764 Bluray supporters and HD DVD supporters have both said let the movies out now, rather than later, even if it means that the Bluray versions don't have the "Advanced Interactive" features.

I am a big supporter of Warner and your films. Please do understand that I do not view Warner as the problem here but the POLICY. Won't you PLEASE reconsider this noble but misguided policy in the context of the real damage it is doing, given the realities of the state of development on the two movie formats!

HD DVD needs your releases more than any other format, for obvious reasons, and restraining the content will hurt. After all, if the starter fires his starter pistol for a foot race, does he hold one runner back because the other one hasn't put his shoes on yet?

I wish to thank you again for your excellent and valued support of the HD DVD format and for your concern, urgent consideration and prompt action on this important request.

Very sincerely yours

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post #22 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 04:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

I'm curious, who within the BDA could be putting pressure on Warner? Aren't they responsible for their own business model?

If I knew more about the politics, I'd have a clue. But I'm sure that there are incentives for Warner if they maintain a strict neutrality - who knows, BDA could even promise a better share of the pie if the format wins.

Then again maybe there is no reason for Warner to be concerned at all. I am hopeful that they'll listen to appeals from their customers!
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post #23 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 05:08 PM
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Do we know this for a fact (that Warner is witholding HD DVD because of Blu-ray)? Seems like we could be jumping the gun on them without knowing the full facts. Rdjam, do you have any way to contact CJplay -- I'd bet he would have the inside track on the situation.
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post #24 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 05:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sknight1 View Post

Do we know this for a fact (that Warner is witholding HD DVD because of Blu-ray)? Seems like we could be jumping the gun on them without knowing the full facts. Rdjam, do you have any way to contact CJplay -- I'd bet he would have the inside track on the situation.

This is getting to be like the Universal ditching HD DVD to go neutral type rumor....Warner (like Universal) is a company run by mature folk
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post #25 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sknight1 View Post

Do we know this for a fact (that Warner is witholding HD DVD because of Blu-ray)? Seems like we could be jumping the gun on them without knowing the full facts. Rdjam, do you have any way to contact CJplay -- I'd bet he would have the inside track on the situation.

I wish I knew how to reach him - if anyone does, it may help.

But he probably wouldn't be allowed to comment, given the last brou-ha and how his superiors at Warner seemed to react.

In fact, I'm now wondering if the BD campaign to his bosses to get him removed from this site had anything to do with them being concerned that he might add some info to this situation... It had to come to a head at some point - I hope we're not too late to get these releases, er, released.
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post #26 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

So here WE are, HD DVD owners, with hardly any releases right now because they are apparently being withheld by studios to wait until the Bluray versions are ready TOO!?

It would be really interesting if that is the reason that Universal has very little announced

Seriously though - Warner has a lot more titles announced in February than Universal does. Perhaps you are looking in the wrong direction regarding the dearth of HD DVDs....
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post #27 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 05:53 PM
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we have 3 hd movies and bd have 18 movies for the next two weeks ,go figure who is neutral,this is bull ....
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post #28 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 06:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phloyd View Post

It would be really interesting if that is the reason that Universal has very little announced

Seriously though - Warner has a lot more titles announced in February than Universal does. Perhaps you are looking in the wrong direction regarding the dearth of HD DVDs....

Ahh, the first troll...
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post #29 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 06:10 PM
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If Warner is not releasing their content because they want Sony's blessing for Total HD, then they have just put Sony in charge of their future. Who is to say that Sony will not stall the adoption of the necessary tools for BD-J even longer in order to keep Warner from releasing on HD DVD?

Sure, Blu Ray won't see those same marquee Warner titles in the same time frame, but they don't really care as much because they also have Disney, Fox, MGM, etc. to fill in the gaps.

Warner might be getting played here over a media (TotalHD) that will flop on its face anyway, and they should proceed with extreme caution.
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post #30 of 279 Old 01-30-2007, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I think we should encourage Warner to tell BD to stuff themselves and go ahead with the HD DVD releases that are ready regardless.

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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

I think they'd generally like to release titles as soon as they are ready, but have been facing a lot of heat behind the scenes for anything that may advantage HD DVD over Bluray.

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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

If I knew more about the politics, I'd have a clue. But I'm sure that there are incentives for Warner if they maintain a strict neutrality - who knows, BDA could even promise a better share of the pie if the format wins.

Given the above statements I know you won't listen to reason. But you clearly neglect that it would be illegal for the BDA and/or any other studios to collude or threaten like this. In fact, the simplest scenario, rather than your conspiracies and such, is simply that Warner has made a business decision on their own to do it this way. So go ahead and indetify yourself as an HD DVD fanatic and tell them that you think their business logic stinks, and please do report back to all of us on how that works out for you.

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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

In fact, I'm now wondering if the BD campaign to his bosses to get him removed from this site had anything to do with them being concerned that he might add some info to this situation... It had to come to a head at some point - I hope we're not too late to get these releases, er, released.

There was no "BD campaign" to get cjplay removed. You continue to have no idea what you are talking about and this was talked about at length. Some posts were removed that might mave made it look that way, but that wasn't the case. And in fact, you should know that two parties (not solely HD DVD related) tried to help get cjplay reinstated.
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