"Official" Olive Thread Opus 4, Opus 6, Melody 2, Olive 2, Olive 4/ 4HD, 06HD - Page 33 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #961 of 3883 Old 09-06-2010, 12:46 PM
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I enabled the error logging in 4.1.3 to see if that produces something usefull. It rebooted the unit, and i started to play a classical track in the classical genre. After that the olive behaves weird and I had to reboot it myself.
Now I could save the error log zlogs.tar. but could not get info from it.

Now the Olive has disabled the power saving function again, just as it had when i tried the error logging a month ago in rel 4.1.2.

Clearly an other little bug.

Regarding the recurring 64 limitation: when you try to edit >64 tracks in one go, it will handle only the first 64 tracks (without telling you).

I agree with dotysystem about the software quality
(But my problem with the classical genre is just my problem, not Olive's)

Marc
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post #962 of 3883 Old 09-06-2010, 06:19 PM
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I am beginning to believe that Olive CANNOT fix the major software problems in the 4HD. What we have bought is a kludge of mysterious freeware, shareware and goofy Linux software that’s cheap for the manufacturer and constantly frustrating for the consumer. The patient willingness of Olive owners to try to puzzle out solutions to problems that Olive itself will not solve amazes me.

After nine months or more on the market, the Olive still has not fixed the broken iMaestro app or addressed any of the major flaws in the Maestro software interface. I won’t detail the myriad cataloging flaws in Maestro that Olive will not fix: buy a download or rip an album, then say a prayer before you look at the jumble you might see in Maestro. Waste your life away trying to correct entries in Maestro.

Then there’s the proprietary backup system that may or may not work.

Recent updates centered around internet radio, evidently a case of Sonos envy, only deflect from the major flaws in the Olive. Olive should fix what’s broken before they pile on more impaired functions.

I bought the Olive 4HD expecting a simple entry into high-quality digital music until a more refined, reasonably-priced product came along. Thus far, nothing better to which I might turn has come along, and the Olive’s functionality gets worse instead of better.

Yes, the Olive pleases with good sound reproduction. What the Olive does not do, contradicting the company’s brochure, is “deliver a music experience without compromises... with easy digital music access and elegant design.” I’ve lost confidence in the product because nothing is ever really fixed. Whenever something sensible comes along, from a company that offers service rather than san excuse-riddled holding pattern, I will gladly pay the money.
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post #963 of 3883 Old 09-07-2010, 04:39 AM
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New:
http://olive.setbb.com

A new Forum, dedicated to the Olive products.

http://olive.setbb.com

Whay a dedicated forum? Because Olive is getting to big to be just another thread in this general AVS forum. It deserves (and needs...) more!

But it only works with all of YOU!! Spread the word.

http://olive.setbb.com
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post #964 of 3883 Old 09-07-2010, 05:38 AM
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Gatomusic, what do you expect from freedb? Especially if it concerns classical music you have to edit the mess that Freedb created, but usually I don't have to enter all the information myself.

But ok, you are quite right about the bugginess of the software.
Last night I undid the changes that I had made outside of the music-database, and had still the problem with classical music.

I begin to think that it is a problem of the Olive, and not mine. I guess it is one of those infamous 64-limitations.
I wouldn't be surprised if they 'tested' the update to the classical music - search for composers - with only a few cd's.

Who has more than 64 composers and no problem playing classical music? Wolfert?
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post #965 of 3883 Old 09-08-2010, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsoft View Post

Gatomusic, what do you expect from freedb? Especially if it concerns classical music you have to edit the mess that Freedb created, but usually I don't have to enter all the information myself.

But ok, you are quite right about the bugginess of the software.
Last night I undid the changes that I had made outside of the music-database, and had still the problem with classical music.

I begin to think that it is a problem of the Olive, and not mine. I guess it is one of those infamous 64-limitations.
I wouldn't be surprised if they 'tested' the update to the classical music - search for composers - with only a few cd's.

Who has more than 64 composers and no problem playing classical music? Wolfert?

I have 109 composers and no problems.
(The only issue is that actually i have far more composers, but Olive only recognises 109....)
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post #966 of 3883 Old 09-08-2010, 05:01 AM
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If I recall correctly, the Olive does not display the composer tag in its Maestro editor. And it seems to have a problem with multiple composers per track. If you could see and edit what the composer tag contains, you could change it to what Olive expects. Currently this needs to be done pre-import?

That said, Olive could probably try to improve its parsing of the composer tag. I agree with the idea of freezing the feature set until it is stable and does what it is supposed to do.

Bob
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post #967 of 3883 Old 09-08-2010, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotysystem View Post

If I recall correctly, the Olive does not display the composer tag in its Maestro editor. And it seems to have a problem with multiple composers per track. If you could see and edit what the composer tag contains, you could change it to what Olive expects. Currently this needs to be done pre-import?
Bob

Just move an album to the right genre, in this case a classical one, and presto, the album becomes a work, and a work has a title and a composer.
All that is in Maestro.

If a track has multiple composers (really?) then just enter them in the composers field. You'll end up with one extra composer, say Bach - Mendelssohn.

Marc
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post #968 of 3883 Old 09-08-2010, 06:24 AM
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The Olive top level composer sort lists all genres. Many non-classical tracks have multiple 'composers'.

Can you refer to me the page in either manual where the explanation of the Works behavior can be found?

Thanks

Bob
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post #969 of 3883 Old 09-08-2010, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfert View Post

I have 109 composers and no problems.
(The only issue is that actually i have far more composers, but Olive only recognises 109....)

Thanks!

My problem gets weirder and weirder then.
I'll tell you a story.
To get over the problem I moved a work from one genre to the other; i hoped that would reset the index or so. It did not help.
I have a 'complete' backup, made with Clonezilla, and before this I could revert back to 4.1.2 with that, just by cloning the backup back to the Olive-disk. When it started to copy partition 7 I stopped it, and huray, the Olive booted ok with rel 4.1.2 and all my music at hand. (Clone Part 7 was equal to original part 7, otherwise I could not interrupt it without making trouble). The disk did not stop spinning anymore, that 'problem' was back also.

Now i had changed something in partition 7, so i did not want to touch part 7.
I just copied part 2 and part 3. Part 5 on my clone disk was not filled or at least I could not mount it. In the Olive's disk it was OK, but apparently it was not backupped correctly, but my first restore with the complete disk did NOT fail.
(So I assume now that there is no release-dependant info in part 5.)

So, with just a restored part 2 and 3 it booted. But now it tells me it is release 4.1.1
And now the disk obeys to the energy saving...!
But what confuses me most is that the sorting of multi-cd's work is correct now. (The difference: the tracks are numbered x/33, y/25, z/29 and not xx/87, which I saw in rel 4.1.3. Could that be the problem?! 87>64)

And it all plays fine.

Hopefully it stays that way.

How on earth is this possible.

Marc
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post #970 of 3883 Old 09-08-2010, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dotysystem View Post

The Olive top level composer sort lists all genres. Many non-classical tracks have multiple 'composers'.

Can you refer to me the page in either manual where the explanation of the Works behavior can be found?

Thanks

Bob

Bob, I did not gaze at the newest manuals until now. I can't find it.
But in the (old) manual on my disk I found this:
Quote:


Please note that the classical work tab only shows for music that is sorted into the classical
genre. Here you will see all other attributes that are only relevant for classical music. There are
drop-down suggestion boxes for the composer, conductor, orchestra and chorus fields based on
the most famous of these, to allow to more quickly add such information.

Apparantly Olive tries to skip as much information as possible, wiping out some useful information in the go.
In the new manual you also won't find the key combination to load a recovery cd.

If I understand these people behind the Olive, i will report so.

Marc
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post #971 of 3883 Old 09-08-2010, 01:04 PM
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Does the iPhone app completely work for anybody? The latest update seems to help, but it still isn't usable for me. Anyone else having issues?

Thanks,

Brian
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post #972 of 3883 Old 09-08-2010, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Briangiannini View Post

Does the iPhone app completely work for anybody? The latest update seems to help, but it still isn't usable for me. Anyone else having issues?

Thanks,

Brian

The iphone app doesn't work with OS4. Olive told me it would be fixed--meaning presumably an update to the app itself--along with the software update at the end of August. They lied.
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post #973 of 3883 Old 09-10-2010, 01:02 PM
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After updating to rel 4.1.3 i discovered another old 64 limitation. The Olive can't handle more than 64 tracks in one work. It's a rather old limitation, and it did not bother me very much, until this update 4.1.3.
You normally would not come across a cd with more than 64 tracks on it, but if you merge more than one cd because they contain a single work, say an opera, then it is easily possible to get more than 64 tracks in such a composition or work.
Since rel 4.1.2. such works were played in the wrong order, and rel 4.1.3 promised to fix that. And actually you can see in Maestro that the sort order now is changed, and the cd's are played in the right order. On the screen of the Olive you can see that it displays track x/yy, where yy is the total number of tracks of the work, not the cd.
In rel 4.1.1 the problem did not exist yet, but it shows a different approach to the numbering of tracks in a work. Here on screen one can see track number x/zz, where zz is the total of tracks in the current cd.

While the solution in rel 4.1.3. is more elegant, I believe it stumbled over its old 64 tracks limitation. In my experience I could not play more than one single track from any classical work without having to reboot the Olive after that.
I managed to get rel 4.1.1. back, which shows this previous behaviour and which plays fine!

Guys, what I think is not so important. I like to have someone with 4.1.3 to try this out.
If your classical works play fine in this new release, could you confirm that your opera's or other multi-cd-works don't contain more than 64 tracks?
And, if you combine some cd's with more than 64 tracks in a work, do you have the same problem as I did?

If I'm more sure about the nature of the problem, I could tell Olive my and your findings with more certainty.

Thanks!

I have posted this also here: http://olive.setbb.com
I won't do that always, I consider to leave this forum.
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post #974 of 3883 Old 09-11-2010, 08:51 AM
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I was frustrated with Olive Opus 4's handling of Composers under Genre so I created names of Composers directly in the "Classical" heading (see screen shot 1 "Rachmaninov"). I found that I could list the composer's works. One problem I haven't been able to solve is how to get Opus to play more than one work sequentially other than creating a Playlist. I attached some screenshots in case others want to experiment with this approach. It might be useful for Operas.
LL
LL
LL
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post #975 of 3883 Old 09-11-2010, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikestez View Post

I was frustrated with Olive Opus 4's handling of Composers under Genre so I created names of Composers directly in the "Classical" heading (see screen shot 1 "Rachmaninov"). I found that I could list the composer's works. One problem I haven't been able to solve is how to get Opus to play more than one work sequentially other than creating a Playlist. I attached some screenshots in case others want to experiment with this approach. It might be useful for Operas.

???
I have the same kind of list under Classical, but no Composers there. In Classical I put all the orchestral works, for chamber music, Opera etc I have sub-genres. I delete empty genres.
But that's just normal. Nothing to 'experiment' with, I mean.

The playlists are the only way to get more than one work in a go, but that's not different for albums.

Marc
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post #976 of 3883 Old 09-21-2010, 05:03 PM
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Hasn't someone who's a Linux geek figured out how to log on to the Olive so permissions for the Music directory can be changed and music files can be copied directly from it?

It must be possible, no?
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post #977 of 3883 Old 09-29-2010, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firedog55 View Post

Hasn't someone who's a Linux geek figured out how to log on to the Olive so permissions for the Music directory can be changed and music files can be copied directly from it?

It must be possible, no?

Of course.
But what do you think, how would it come to you?
The best I can think of is an instruction like: open the case, attach the disk to your pc, add blabla to xyz, make sure etc., put the disk back, start the olive and login.

But more easily:
Open the case, attach the disk, you'll find all the music in partition 7.

Olive should make the software open source, so that others can provide updates.

Marc
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post #978 of 3883 Old 09-30-2010, 05:54 AM
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Your answer on the music directory was a little cryptic.

The question involved getting access to the songs in the Music for import and export while it is in the Olive. There should be an SSH logon and a directory permissions hack that allows the files to be viewed/accessed from another PC on the network, just like most other directories can be.

Barring that, I 'm pretty sure the music directory is defined as "not accessible".


Thanks
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post #979 of 3883 Old 09-30-2010, 07:02 PM
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Olive's got a new unit, O3HD, now. Would really like to hear some feedback on this. Only thing that really sucks is a 500GB harddrive...What were they thinking???
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post #980 of 3883 Old 10-02-2010, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firedog55 View Post

Your answer on the music directory was a little cryptic.

The question involved getting access to the songs in the Music for import and export while it is in the Olive. There should be an SSH logon and a directory permissions hack that allows the files to be viewed/accessed from another PC on the network, just like most other directories can be.

Barring that, I 'm pretty sure the music directory is defined as "not accessible".

Thanks

Did you ask Olive for it?
Even if I am able to change my Olive that way, it will be undone by the next update. So Olive should contain this fix and maintain it.
If there is no update te be foreseen in the future, I might be able to change it for myself, and give instructions how you could apply the change for yourself. But I would not be able to come with an update like Olive does. That's because it is not open source, and Olive has not published the source of their efforts.

I wish they did, and I think they should.
I even think that this would boost the selling.

Marc
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post #981 of 3883 Old 10-05-2010, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maison View Post

Olive's got a new unit, O3HD, now. Would really like to hear some feedback on this. Only thing that really sucks is a 500GB harddrive...What were they thinking???

From their website, it looks identical to the 4HD except it has a cheaper DAC and smaller hard disk. Certainly not enough to justify the dramatic price drop of $1,500. In other words, Olive found that after raising the 4HD's price from $1,999 to $2,499, potential customers started looking at serious music servers from established brands such as Naim Audio and the $HD was selling less and less.

Too bad they chose the way down rather than up and did not take the cue from serious manufacturers, who have given up force-selling overpriced storage through proprietary systems that prevent users from extracting music files once stored on their servers. Look at Naim, among others: they have wisely concluded that storage should be unlimited, mostly external and left mostly to the choice of the user.

M.G.
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post #982 of 3883 Old 10-14-2010, 03:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DIGINOTE View Post

From their website, it looks identical to the 4HD except it has a cheaper DAC and smaller hard disk. Certainly not enough to justify the dramatic price drop of $1,500. In other words, Olive found that after raising the 4HD's price from $1,999 to $2,499, potential customers started looking at serious music servers from established brands such as Naim Audio and the $HD was selling less and less.

Too bad they chose the way down rather than up and did not take the cue from serious manufacturers, who have given up force-selling overpriced storage through proprietary systems that prevent users from extracting music files once stored on their servers. Look at Naim, among others: they have wisely concluded that storage should be unlimited, mostly external and left mostly to the choice of the user.

M.G.

You are right, that's called Marketing - no matter if they are right or wrong !

Olive didn't calculate a cost-based price but target a balanced price regarding supply, demand and possible sales.
If they estimated an excessive resp. 'overpriced' price, they will realise a fall in demand and as a result be forced to correct their price strategy.
That's the way rules in business are or do you think the prices for electronics are strictly cost-based ?

Mathew
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post #983 of 3883 Old 10-14-2010, 03:31 PM
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Has everyone abandoned their Olives? Or just this forum? Where's the old guard?
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post #984 of 3883 Old 10-14-2010, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmolitor View Post

Has everyone abandoned their Olives? Or just this forum? Where's the old guard?

I have abandoned my Olive. Bought a Logitech Squeezebox Touch about three weeks ago, and combined with a 4TB NAS, continue using dbPoweramp to rip CDs and outputting digital (up to 96/24 native) to a Benchmark DAC, and I am not looking back. I now freely copy and backup my files and have no fear about what will happen when I need to rely on my backup. I also enjoy a vastly superior user interface (remote control or tapping the device itself, but even more so, the web-based interface, which makes Olive's software look like the work of a retarded child). I wish this had been available three years ago when I first purchased an Olive; never would have done it.
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post #985 of 3883 Old 10-15-2010, 02:02 AM
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I won't give up on my Olive so quickly. I doubt that a NAS can hold the modification that was applied to my Olive, which gives me so much joy.
I am convinced that one day or another Olive will give back the music it took.

But I'm disappointed in this forum and http://olive.setbb.com/

marc
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post #986 of 3883 Old 10-15-2010, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimInLoganSquare View Post

I have abandoned my Olive. Bought a Logitech Squeezebox Touch about three weeks ago, and combined with a 4TB NAS, continue using dbPoweramp to rip CDs and outputting digital (up to 96/24 native) to a Benchmark DAC, and I am not looking back. I now freely copy and backup my files and have no fear about what will happen when I need to rely on my backup. I also enjoy a vastly superior user interface (remote control or tapping the device itself, but even more so, the web-based interface, which makes Olive's software look like the work of a retarded child). I wish this had been available three years ago when I first purchased an Olive; never would have done it.

I'm in the same situation, except that I already had the Squeezebox before purchasing the Olive 4, and then the HD, which I both returned during the return period. The Squeezebox has actually been available for much longer than the Olive devices, though the Touch is new (and the older Duet--which is what I use--downsamples 24/96 content). For my setup, I already used dbpoweramp to rip everything to a NAS (I never got a clear answer from Olive on whether their rips where "secure", it lacks AccurateRip, and the Olive is much more black box than dbpoweramp so I had no information on questionable rips) and then transferred it to the Olive, and I only used the digital out, so I realized that I was paying $2k to have a prettier box with a worse and buggier interface. With the CustomBrowse plugin for Squeezecenter, I can sort classical tracks any which way I want (composer, conductor, soloist, orchestra, whatever), which is a boon for someone with a large classical library. I've been following this thread to see if Olive has made any progress where I might jump back in, but at this point I'll probably just go with a PS Audio solution (I already own their PerfectWave transport and they just released their streaming network Bridge solution, which is supposed to sound fantastic).
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post #987 of 3883 Old 10-15-2010, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mumsoft View Post

I won't give up on my Olive so quickly. I doubt that a NAS can hold the modification that was applied to my Olive, which gives me so much joy.

If you don't mind me asking, what's the modification you speak of?
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post #988 of 3883 Old 10-17-2010, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nottlv View Post

If you don't mind me asking, what's the modification you speak of?

I don't mind. But it's a Dutch modification after the findings of H. van der Heide.
In short, it transfers the recording location to your room. He, he, that sounds weird, doesn't it? Well, it IS.
It is in no way an electrical modification. I guess some 50 or 60 people in Holland have asked for it, and got it more or less. The mod needs to go all over the set to get the full potential.

For me, it makes all the other audiophile junk superfluous. I don't have an expensive power regulator, no expensive cables, no need for anything else.
People that have listened to my set tell me it sound like a very expensive turntable, or that they never have heard such beautiful highs, or how 3D is all sounds.
It is that, and more. It is as if you're watching the musicians.

So, if I wanted to dump the Olive, I must make sure this mod is suitable for the new gear. (Apart from the problem that I have to get the meta data back)

Marc
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post #989 of 3883 Old 10-18-2010, 05:55 AM
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Hi,

I am new here and got my 4HD 4 days ago. I am satisfied so far (cons: Iphone app crashes, database handling is sometimes very slow, Maestro is not enough professional, but these are well known issues).

Could somebody answer the folllowing questions:

1. I have downloaded some nice album from NAIM LABEL (wav 24/48, 24/44,1) that come with separate metadata files. To add the wav-s to the Olive brings chaos. Is there a simple way how to add albums with wav-s without converting to flac and editing metadata.

2. I assume the telnet connection to the box as described at rootcellarnews.c0m/AEOliveTelnet does not work anymore. Correct?

3. Unofficial software to edit the database might be expected?

Thanks.

K.
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post #990 of 3883 Old 10-18-2010, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred3000gt View Post

Right, I think I will ask them. In the mean time, I'll get a DacMagic and play through it since I guess the problem should not occur on the digital outputs.

On another topic, for the backup and following your remark, I also just tried to uncompress the first .taraa file and it seems that I was able to re-generate from the backup all the tracks in flac format! (I used 7-Zip) I got about 2000 tracks, which (more or less) matches with the number of tracks listed on my Opus. I then was able to play one this recovered tracks using a flac player (foobar2000). Actually, it seems that the .taraa links automatically the other .tar** files so that 7Zip was able uncompress everything (indeed the .taraa is 2Gb while the uncompressed files I obtain represent about 100 Gb...)

From the earlier posts I thought this was not possible because of DRM questions, this is very very good news for me... maybe I just re-discovered what everybody already knew.

Fred.

Hi guys,

Could someone please walk me through this process? I have about 136 Gb of data on my backup. Largely a mix of FLAC files and mp3s, and they backup to a couple dozen TAR files labeled something like .tarbc, .tarbd, .tarbe etc... which is, I presume, is a way of parsing data into 2Gb chunks. There is of course, 1 XML file as well. I downloaded 7-Zip, and it reads the files without problem, so I simply selected the first (.taraa) and hit extract. This turned the entire thing into one file, with the attribute 'A'. I don't think it had an extension. The file was the right size but I'm currently copying the entire collection to a drive with more room and I'll try again. Am I missing a step? Or am I just not clear with what to do once the files are 'unzipped'?

Thanks in advance for any help!

Rick.
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