Sony XA5400-ES - Page 3 - AVS Forum

geekhd · 02-28-2010, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaby

It is really difficult for me to articulate the other sonic traits I hear; organic, rythmic drive, speed, I don't know. But, I can say the 5400 has stopped me from playing any other digital sources, and it has me listening to music again.

Unless confirmed not to be, it sounds like a typical placebo effect, assuming he matched level during comparison.

CharlesJ · 02-28-2010, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaby

.... To borrow from Kal Rubinson, the 5400 is a "revelation."

I would love to hear about his ability to differentiate it in a credible DBT.

CharlesJ · 02-28-2010, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekhd

Unless confirmed not to be, it sounds like a typical placebo effect, assuming he matched level during comparison.

Does he even compare them under DBT in the first place?

Kal Rubinson · 03-01-2010, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesJ

I would love to hear about his ability to differentiate it in a credible DBT.

Relevant report in March issue.

richardbk · 03-02-2010, 11:17 AM

Hey everyone, I'm not as tech savvy as most here, so let me ask what I'm sure is, to most of you, a basic question:

Will the XA5400-ES deliver its reportedly fabulous multi-channel audio quality via HDMI with my Onkyo TX SR-606 receiver (which has 4 HDMI inputs)? I'm asking because I thought I read somewhere that the 5400 has to compromise signal quality if it's not plugged into a receiver with a specific kind of HDMI capability.

Separately, what's the consensus regarding the 5400 vs. the Oppo BDP-83 SE for 2-channel playback - using Oppo's analog 2-channel option? All other components being equal, which unit offers better AQ?

Thanks!

Corybud · 03-02-2010, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardbk

Hey everyone, I'm not as tech savvy as most here, so let me ask what I'm sure is, to most of you, a basic question:

Will the XA5400-ES deliver its reportedly fabulous multi-channel audio quality via HDMI with my Onkyo TX SR-606 receiver (which has 4 HDMI inputs)? I'm asking because I thought I read somewhere that the 5400 has to compromise signal quality if it's not plugged into a receiver with a specific kind of HDMI capability.

Separately, what's the consensus regarding the 5400 vs. the Oppo BDP-83 SE for 2-channel playback - using Oppo's analog 2-channel option? All other components being equal, which unit offers better AQ?

Thanks!

Mine delevers multi channel through the hdmi to my pioneer sc-27 just fine. Cant say how the 5400 compares to Oppo as I have never listened to one. I will say the 5400 sounds excellent no matter what I put in it and listen to.

RUR · 03-02-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardbk

Hey everyone, I'm not as tech savvy as most here, so let me ask what I'm sure is, to most of you, a basic question:

Will the XA5400-ES deliver its reportedly fabulous multi-channel audio quality via HDMI with my Onkyo TX SR-606 receiver (which has 4 HDMI inputs)? I'm asking because I thought I read somewhere that the 5400 has to compromise signal quality if it's not plugged into a receiver with a specific kind of HDMI capability.

Better asked (and may already be answered) in this thread.

Quote:

Separately, what's the consensus regarding the 5400 vs. the Oppo BDP-83 SE for 2-channel playback - using Oppo's analog 2-channel option? All other components being equal, which unit offers better AQ?

Dunno about "consensus", but (to pick on Kal, once again

), see here. As he's already stated, details may be found in his column, March Stereophile.

gbaby · 03-02-2010, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesJ

I would love to hear about his ability to differentiate it in a credible DBT.

There was no double blind test conducted by me, only a comparison between the units I own, all sonys: the SCD-C555ES, SCD-XA5400ES and BDPS5000ES.
I can tell you that I sold highend equipment for 5 years in the '70s so I have a little experience with knowing sonic traits of equipment. I also know that with the 5400ES, you can get better sound from it by simply turning off the display and this trick works with the other CD players as well. For the record, if you or others are cynical regarding my ability to hear the sonic superiority of the 5400ES over the units I own, its fine with me. I'm enjoying it every day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesJ

Does he even compare them under DBT in the first place?

See answer above.

CharlesJ · 03-02-2010, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaby

...
I can tell you that I sold highend equipment for 5 years in the '70s so I have a little experience with knowing sonic traits of equipment.

That does not compute, really. Unless you can identify such sonic differences under DBT protocols, you have no idea if any component has a signature, just urban legends, period. Not much to really discuss as it becomes just a subjective guess about any differences, no matter how much subjective experience you have.
And, if any older components had such a signature, is irrelevant to modern day components.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaby

... I also know that with the 5400ES, you can get better sound from it by simply turning off the display and this trick works with the other CD players as well.

Again, same response. No DBT, unreliable perceptions. No one really knows what sonic difference are or aren't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaby

... For the record, if you or others are cynical regarding my ability to hear the sonic superiority of the 5400ES over the units I own, its fine with me. I'm enjoying it every day.

Enjoyment is really independent of any sonic differences or benefits. And, there is nothing cynical about doubting these claims, unverified under any DBT testing. Might as well claim psychic abilities, similar.

geekhd · 03-02-2010, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaby

I can tell you that I sold highend equipment for 5 years in the '70s so I have a little experience with knowing sonic traits of equipment.

That explains why you talk about CDP the way you do. It was pre CDP era.

Corybud · 03-03-2010, 10:06 AM

For the record, if you or others are cynical regarding my ability to hear the sonic superiority of the 5400ES over the units I own, its fine with me. I'm enjoying it every day.

--------------------------------------------

I second that!

geekhd · 03-03-2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corybud

For the record, if you or others are cynical regarding my ability to hear the sonic superiority of the 5400ES over the units I own, its fine with me. I'm enjoying it every day.

--------------------------------------------

I second that!

What defines sonic superiority of CDP? In other words, what are the aspects of sound that places one CDP above another?

Corybud · 03-03-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekhd

What defines sonic superiority of CDP? In other words, what are the aspects of sound that places one CDP above another?

Maybe your questions should be directed at Kal Rubinson as you seem to respect his opinion more than any of ours.

geekhd · 03-03-2010, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corybud

Maybe your questions should be directed at Kal Rubinson as you seem to respect his opinion more than any of ours.

Why are you dodging my question? You second the post by gbaby about "sonic superiority of the 5400ES" so I asked you a related question. Lets hear it. What defines sonic superiority of CDP?

Where dose "respect his opinion more than any of ours" come from? Did you see my post indicating such thing?

gbaby · 03-03-2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corybud

Maybe your questions should be directed at Kal Rubinson as you seem to respect his opinion more than any of ours.

If I were Kal, I would not dignify these inquiries with a response.

Corybud · 03-03-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekhd

Why are you dodging my question? You second the post by gbaby about "sonic superiority of the 5400ES" so I asked you a related question. Lets hear it. What defines sonic superiority of CDP?

Where dose "respect his opinion more than any of ours" come from? Did you see my post indicating such thing?

I didn't dodge anything. The point was be cynical all you want but we will be enjoying our equipment. The respect his opinion comes from in all the posts I see from you going after anyone who talks about one cd player sounding better than another I never see you take him on.

gbaby · 03-03-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekhd

That explains why you talk about CDP the way you do. It was pre CDP era.

If you were born in the '70s, you probably would not have an appreciation for sonic traits of analog equipment. In fact, music was better sounding with vinyl than with CDs. Vinyl is just so inconvenent. However, the 5400ES approaches the sonic traits of vinyl on certain compositions.

geekhd · 03-03-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corybud

I didn't dodge anything.

Yes, you did and you still are dodging my question. By the way, it was just a plain question regarding your definition of sonic superiority.

Quote:

The point was be cynical all you want but we will be enjoying our equipment.

It's not cynicism. It's an attempt to open an objective discussion.

Quote:

The respect his opinion comes from in all the posts I see from you going after anyone who talks about one cd player sounding better than another I never see you take him on.

I haven't seen him post things like you and gbaby do about CDP. Feel free to show me if I missed any.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt by asking again, what defines sonic superiority of CDP?

geekhd · 03-03-2010, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaby

If you were born in the '70s, you probably would not have an appreciation for sonic traits of analog equipment. In fact, music was better sounding with vinyl than with CDs. Vinyl is just so inconvenent. However, the 5400ES approaches the sonic traits of vinyl on certain compositions.

I was not born in the '70s. Are you saying that if someone was born before or after the '70s, there's no way to sample the sonic traits of analog equipment?

**Mike Lang** · 03-03-2010, 05:48 PM

back on topic guys...

Corybud · 03-03-2010, 06:00 PM

I haven't seen him post things like you and gbaby do about CDP. Feel free to show me if I missed any.

-----------------------------------

See post #43 that refer to testing the 5400es. Also see post 49 and 64.

---------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt by asking again, what defines sonic superiority of CDP?

That actually is pretty funny considering that you have not given me the "benefit of the doubt" yet plus all I have seen from your side of the debate is links to other discussions on the forum that prove nothing.

I do hope you enjoy your equipment as much as I am enjoying mine.

geekhd · 03-03-2010, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corybud

See post #43 that refer to testing the 5400es. Also see post 49 and 64.

As I stated, he hasn't posted the things here (internet forum where people can reply) you and gbaby posted.

Quote:

That actually is pretty funny considering that you have not given me the "benefit of the doubt" yet plus all I have seen from your side of the debate is links to other discussions on the forum that prove nothing.

I did give you the benefit of the doubt. What did I try to prove?

Quote:

I do hope you enjoy your equipment as much as I am enjoying mine.

I'm not questioning you about you enjoying your CDP. I am simply asking you about the aspect of CDP sound quality gbaby brought up which you second. What do you mean sonic superiority of Sony XA5400-ES? What makes its sonic superior?
gbaby, feel free to jump in.

By the way, try to use quote feature. It makes it easier to follow through your post.

gbaby · 03-03-2010, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekhd

What do you mean sonic superiority of Sony XA5400-ES? What makes its sonic superior?
gbaby, feel free to jump in.

By the way, try to use quote feature. It makes it easier to follow through your post.

What I mean by sonic superiority is the ability of a CDP to play music with detail and without that digital bite or sound, great stereo imaging wherein one can almost close ones eyes and hear the location of instruments within the sound stage with the music sounding organic and three dimensional. I have heard these traits from analog sources such as reel to reel tape, and I hear these same traits in the 5400. Its the only CD player I've ever really enjoyed listening to, and it has me playing music regularly again. There are other traits that are hard to articulate, but I know good sound when I hear it.

KBI · 03-03-2010, 09:30 PM

When does enjoying the music come into play?

I'm tired of all this BS.. If you hear a difference it's only in your mind.. Guess what.. I bought a 595 Sony SACD player cause I thought it would better my HD DVD player for CD play back. It didn't.. I guess I missed the placebo effect that night, cause I was convinced the Sony would better my HD DVD player..

KBI · 03-03-2010, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Corybud

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes I have heard all this before but I stand by what I said. I have 3 cd players set up with one being a cd recorder and the other being an entry level sony sacd five disc changer. Playing the same cd's on each the sony es-5400 stands out above the others. My wife and others who have listened also agree. This is not to say that the sony is better than or should even be considered a high end unit. I have never owned a high end unit to compare it to but it is the best unit I have owned to date.

I understand the need for and respect the scientific testing end of things but with all due respect have to take exception to the notion that you cannot compare 3 units side by side on the same equipment, same source material and determine the better sounding cd player.

I believe you.. Too bad others want your blood..

Corybud · 03-04-2010, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBI

I believe you.. Too bad others want your blood..

Thank You.......And with that I will have nothing further to say on the matter. I should have left it at that to begin with.

geekhd · 03-04-2010, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbaby

What I mean by sonic superiority is the ability of a CDP to play music with detail and without that digital bite or sound, great stereo imaging wherein one can almost close ones eyes and hear the location of instruments within the sound stage with the music sounding organic and three dimensional.

That's funny. I've heard that through other CDPs too and some cost more and others much less than XA-5400-ES.

Quote:

I know good sound when I hear it.

So do I.

gbaby · 03-04-2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBI

When does enjoying the music come into play?

I'm tired of all this BS.. If you hear a difference it's only in your mind.. Guess what.. I bought a 595 Sony SACD player cause I thought it would better my HD DVD player for CD play back. It didn't.. I guess I missed the placebo effect that night, cause I was convinced the Sony would better my HD DVD player..

Its not BS, and I can understand your frustration if the Sony CE-595 is any point of reference. Your audio system is only going to sound as good as its weakest link. The CE-595 is simply not a good CD player and is considered low-fi. On my system I think I can appreciate the XA-5400 because of my play back gear which consist of the following:

Infinity Composition Preludes P-FR speakers;
First Watt 2 channel Aleph J amp
Krell KAV-500 5 channel amp
Arcam AV9 Pre/pro
Blue Truth Cables from bettercables.com

While I have othe gear, it is these components I attribute to allowing me to enjoy the sound of the XA-5400ES. I feel my audio investment has finally paid off.

geekhd · 03-04-2010, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KBI

I believe you..

I believe him too because I've heard differences between CDPs. The important thing to know is what causes that difference. Do you know what causes it?

Quote:

Too bad others want your blood..

What you call "others", are merely trying to engage in an objective discussion which is what this forum is geared towards. To those subjectivists, it's like garlic to vampires. They hiss and cringe.

gbaby · 03-04-2010, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geekhd

That's funny. I've heard that through other CDPs too and some cost more and others much less than XA-5400-ES.

Was that by blind testing?

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