Is there any sound quality improvement on CD player if I buy a new one now? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 62 Old 08-27-2015, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by One and a Half View Post
Do you own a $30,000 CD player to compare?
Heavens no! I wouldn't waste that kind of money when I can get better results by bypassing the problem area. But people who don't understand how CDDA works and have money to burn do spend that much. I don't begrudge those who have made such an investment, but prefer the more elegant solution myself.

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post #32 of 62 Old 08-27-2015, 09:36 AM
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Why are you guys talking about DAC's when the OP is using Coaxial out. The DAC that he will be using in both cases will be the same (What ever the Coaxial out is plugged into).


So it should be a very small if not unnoticeable difference. So as long that DAC is made after 1988.
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post #33 of 62 Old 08-27-2015, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Blacklightning View Post

So as long that DAC is made after 1988.
Mine was...

I'll be back later...


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post #34 of 62 Old 08-29-2015, 09:02 AM
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Laughing...
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post #35 of 62 Old 09-20-2015, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post
My CD player is the 2001 Panasonic DVD player, model DVD-S35, it c/w Toslink only.

If I upgrade to a Cambridge AZur 651C Premium CD player, would there be any noticeable improvement on CD sound quality?

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/produc...nema/azur-651c

it doesn't have to be Cambridge, I only pick Cambridge as an eg.

because the output at the rear is about the same. It has Coaxial out, and I do know there is a small difference if you listen to classic music

I only listen to soft rock though

Your entry says that you are connected via Toslink only. I guess that means another device is performing the digital to analog conversion, and you are using the Panasonic as a transport only. It seems really unlikely that using the Cambridge unit as a transport will make any difference unless the Panasonic is defective.

If both units perform the DAC function then the Cambridge will likely measure better. It likely has a newer, better performing DAC chip, equally important it should have better power sources, and better analog electronics. As to whether this better measured performance will be audible; see below.

Concerning the higher level question of substituting one component for another, there are several basic questions; among them are: Is the electrical signal the same out of each component? Using precise measuring equipment the signal out of any two pieces of equipment will found to be different, even if the difference is at a very low level, so; if the signals are different, is the rest of the system, including any room treatments up to revealing these differences? Will the material chosen for playback reveal these differences? Is the listener capable of discerning the differences even if they exist?
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post #36 of 62 Old 09-20-2015, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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the last question is definitely a No. So I'll save the $ and invest in something else
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post #37 of 62 Old 12-06-2015, 06:02 AM
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I think this begs another question: In 2015, is there any reason to use a CD player if you don't have the ability to rip to a lossless format?
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post #38 of 62 Old 12-06-2015, 07:06 AM
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For most people, no. But there remain some who treat cds as they did vinyl albums. They like to look thru their physical collections, pick out a cd, play it from beginning to end while sitting back and looking at the cover art and liner notes. These people are mostly found within the baby boomer generation, and then some collectors of any generation.

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post #39 of 62 Old 12-06-2015, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post
For most people, no. But there remain some who treat cds as they did vinyl albums. They like to look thru their physical collections, pick out a cd, play it from beginning to end while sitting back and looking at the cover art and liner notes. These people are mostly found within the baby boomer generation, and then some collectors of any generation.
Is there anything wrong with that? Many of us listen intensely to our music, not just running it for atmospheric background noise. The "cool" virtual technologies of today will be forgotten gaslight 20 years from now. Without physical backup copies of the music which you've purchased, you might not have access to some or all of that music in the future due to unanticipated legal rights conflicts, lack of consumer interest, computer cyber attacks which damage the hosting servers, or loss of data stored in your personal cloud storage.

So let's not ridicule those who collect physical media copies of music recordings.
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post #40 of 62 Old 12-06-2015, 05:04 PM
 
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Originally Posted by seatacboy View Post
Is there anything wrong with that? Many of us listen intensely to our music, not just running it for atmospheric background noise. The "cool" virtual technologies of today will be forgotten gaslight 20 years from now. Without physical backup copies of the music which you've purchased, you might not have access to some or all of that music in the future due to unanticipated legal rights conflicts, lack of consumer interest, computer cyber attacks which damage the hosting servers, or loss of data stored in your personal cloud storage.

So let's not ridicule those who collect physical media copies of music recordings.
Let alone that often it's easier to grab a disc and slide it in....while I have spent much time poring over my lp album art/liner notes, don't do that much with cd's....too damn small, and art included for a download/streaming app is even worse. I don't have a dedicated music server, either, altho have found some workarounds for streaming over my network from my computer (a laptop).
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post #41 of 62 Old 12-07-2015, 09:25 AM
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There are many excellent cd spinners from Rega, Naim, ARC, Aesthetix...etc.
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post #42 of 62 Old 12-08-2015, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbur_the_goose View Post
I think this begs another question: In 2015, is there any reason to use a CD player if you don't have the ability to rip to a lossless format?
Yes, and if my new one lasts as long as my old one, I'll be good until 2034.

However, I do have the ability to rip, I just don't do it.

Even things I download, if I expect to actually listen to it again, I'll burn it to a disc (hi-res excluded, but then I don't really have any of that anyway).

I'll be back later...


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post #43 of 62 Old 12-27-2015, 12:33 PM
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I took a break for about 8 years and missed the boat.

I had bought a Sharp Aquos 53" TV with a free blu-Ray player back then. Also picked up a Dennon 2309 receiver with hopes of getting good speakers and a good sub for music and movies.

Fast forward. I never got anything beyond the receiver. Musically I got an iPod Touch and then an iPad Air and some bluetooth speakers. Got hooked on Pandora (free) as I never had a great collection of cd's. (Too cheap)

So I got the bug as I was looking at Visio and Samsung "surround sound systems" and thought " what's wrong with me? I have this Dennon that I use for my tv sound with a throw away pair of speakers. IF I got this surround sound I would relegate my Dennon to collecting DUST. How stupid is that?

Just ordered a pair of Ascend Sierra-2's (hopefully a sub down the road) and have been doing searches on how to get the best music sound thinking that their must be an easy way to stream high quality music and also an easy way to convert my cd's to something better than mp3. I got a bit of a grip on lossless from my reading but don't understand the hardware. DAC? Oppo? Not a clue.

So excuse me for the long-winded hijack!!! Where can I go to catch up on what I need to know? HELP!
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post #44 of 62 Old 12-27-2015, 05:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by BoB/335 View Post
I took a break for about 8 years and missed the boat.

I had bought a Sharp Aquos 53" TV with a free blu-Ray player back then. Also picked up a Dennon 2309 receiver with hopes of getting good speakers and a good sub for music and movies.

Fast forward. I never got anything beyond the receiver. Musically I got an iPod Touch and then an iPad Air and some bluetooth speakers. Got hooked on Pandora (free) as I never had a great collection of cd's. (Too cheap)

So I got the bug as I was looking at Visio and Samsung "surround sound systems" and thought " what's wrong with me? I have this Dennon that I use for my tv sound with a throw away pair of speakers. IF I got this surround sound I would relegate my Dennon to collecting DUST. How stupid is that?

Just ordered a pair of Ascend Sierra-2's (hopefully a sub down the road) and have been doing searches on how to get the best music sound thinking that their must be an easy way to stream high quality music and also an easy way to convert my cd's to something better than mp3. I got a bit of a grip on lossless from my reading but don't understand the hardware. DAC? Oppo? Not a clue.

So excuse me for the long-winded hijack!!! Where can I go to catch up on what I need to know? HELP!
Bluetooth isn't a great way to go for high fidelity fwiw. Can be good, but....

I think you'll love your Sierras. I have the 1s and thinking about 2s all the time.....

If you want to rip your cds to a lossless format and you're an apple guy then use the iTunes alac format. If you're more a pc person then I would go flac using Exact Audio Copy. Are you an iphone guy? or Android?
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post #45 of 62 Old 12-27-2015, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
Bluetooth isn't a great way to go for high fidelity fwiw. Can be good, but....

I think you'll love your Sierras. I have the 1s and thinking about 2s all the time.....

If you want to rip your cds to a lossless format and you're an apple guy then use the iTunes alac format. If you're more a pc person then I would go flac using Exact Audio Copy. Are you an iphone guy? or Android?

I'm finding out that bluetooth is not the way to go. I am told that there are good wi-fi alternatives.

I still have a flip phone. (Don't laugh) I usually carry around my iPod Touch. I already have about 3000 songs on iTunes. Many from cd sources and I'm sure low bit rate mp3. ( if that's the right lingo)

IF I am understanding correctly, I can remake copies as flac file stored on my computer and then played via wi-fi with a wi-fi receiver into my Dennon???
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post #46 of 62 Old 12-27-2015, 06:55 PM
 
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I'm finding out that bluetooth is not the way to go. I am told that there are good wi-fi alternatives.

I still have a flip phone. (Don't laugh) I usually carry around my iPod Touch. I already have about 3000 songs on iTunes. Many from cd sources and I'm sure low bit rate mp3. ( if that's the right lingo)

IF I am understanding correctly, I can remake copies as flac file stored on my computer and then played via wi-fi with a wi-fi receiver into my Dennon???
I don't laugh, still fairly new to a smart phone myself after many years of flip phones thanks But they're pretty cool...I use my GalaxyS4 to manage dlna streaming to my Denon avr as dlna renderer (and in other systems in the house via Sony S5100 bluray players) using the bubbleupnp app and connecting to foobar2000 as library for music on my laptop or attached drives, especially flac I've ripped (or downloaded but most of mine is from my cd collection). There are ways to use all of this without the phone app also, but the android phone app makes it faster and portable....

The thing about archiving your cds in a lossy format is that it gives you flexibility in later making an mp3 or aac or whatever you want for it for portable devices or whatever. Storage is cheap so may as well rip to the lossless format; alac and flac just make it more compact than the .wav file.
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post #47 of 62 Old 12-27-2015, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post
I don't laugh, still fairly new to a smart phone myself after many years of flip phones thanks But they're pretty cool...I use my GalaxyS4 to manage dlna streaming to my Denon avr as dlna renderer (and in other systems in the house via Sony S5100 bluray players) using the bubbleupnp app and connecting to foobar2000 as library for music on my laptop or attached drives, especially flac I've ripped (or downloaded but most of mine is from my cd collection). There are ways to use all of this without the phone app also, but the android phone app makes it faster and portable....

The thing about archiving your cds in a lossy format is that it gives you flexibility in later making an mp3 or aac or whatever you want for it for portable devices or whatever. Storage is cheap so may as well rip to the lossless format; alac and flac just make it more compact than the .wav file.
That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that I have NO idea what you are talking about.

Dina streaming
Bubleupnp
Goodbar 2000

I'll have to see if there's. "Dummies Book" for this stuff so that I can understand this stuff.
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post #48 of 62 Old 12-27-2015, 09:25 PM
 
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That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about that I have NO idea what you are talking about.

Dina streaming
Bubleupnp
Goodbar 2000

I'll have to see if there's. "Dummies Book" for this stuff so that I can understand this stuff.
LOL. DLNA is "The Digital Living Network Alliance is THE technology alliance for connected devices and streaming media throughout the home. Discover the freedom and flexibility that DLNA and VidiPath can bring to your media consumption experience" to copy their webpage. My last two receivers can handle streaming of audio over my local network from my computer or phone. More a pc/android thing, too.

Bubbleupnp is a way to enjoy upnp/dlna enabled devices, here's the webpage for the app. I install the bubbleupnp app in my phone then I can use it to use my phone's music library, or any other enabled libarary on my network (or other devices) and play it on my phone, or cast it to my receiver or bluray players or other devices. Believe Chromecast is audio).

foobar2000 is a music management tool, sorta like iTunes but pc freeware and is way better IMO, especially if you want to move your library (iTunes ****ed up access to most of my ripped cds, mostly ripped with iTunes mind you, so got rid of that mess).

There are dummies books for lots o'stuff....I use AVS and google mostly
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post #49 of 62 Old 12-27-2015, 10:14 PM
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Thanks for the links. I'll look into all of this.

Seems like if you get all of this down with high quality copies stored that things would be easier to play.
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post #50 of 62 Old 12-27-2015, 10:34 PM
 
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Thanks for the links. I'll look into all of this.

Seems like if you get all of this down with high quality copies stored that things would be easier to play.
Its easy once you get there....took me a while. I really got into it when I realized I could stream my 1000 or so cds in the various systems in my house either thru avrs or even bluray players on the older avrs with the phone. Technology can be good. Sometimes I still just grab a handful of discs. Or even lps
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post #51 of 62 Old 12-29-2015, 01:20 PM
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My JVC boombox has a CD player...and it was made in 1988 Actually, I have 3 CD transports and they ALL SOUND DIFFERENT. This is because I am using the DAC's in each player (analog out). The NAD 5300 (1988!!!! PST) def. sounds the best for vocals and classical, while my ONYO (1999?) sounds more clinical, yet more controlled in the bass. My Marantz (1999?) sounds in between the two. YES, even my other half, and anybody that knows nothing of HiFi, can tell the diff..... BTW, I haven't used these players' digital outs yet...I will see how my Marantz AV7702 handles these players! (I know, I'm lazy)
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post #52 of 62 Old 12-29-2015, 05:02 PM
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... nobody anywhere has ever denied that non-precisely level-matched, casual listening comparisons can often yield seemingly different sound characteristics from such devices (DACs, CD players). Even more so when those comparisons are made hours or days apart.

Crazy that this needs to be repeated so often. Seriously crazy. It's as if people can't comprehend the basic argument being presented to them, i.e., if you were to take away or control for all the things that are known to generate false audible differences, then much more often than not, those very "obvious" sound differences will tend to disappear and these devices will sound the same.
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post #53 of 62 Old 12-30-2015, 06:06 AM
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... nobody anywhere has ever denied that non-precisely level-matched, casual listening comparisons can often yield seemingly different sound characteristics from such devices (DACs, CD players). Even more so when those comparisons are made hours or days apart.

Crazy that this needs to be repeated so often. Seriously crazy. It's as if people can't comprehend the basic argument being presented to them, i.e., if you were to take away or control for all the things that are known to generate false audible differences, then much more often than not, those very "obvious" sound differences will tend to disappear and these devices will sound the same.
Well, there are many who have compared players with matched levels and who do hear differences between players. Please provide proof (asked for in numerous threads, but never provided).
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post #54 of 62 Old 12-30-2015, 08:18 AM
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Well, there are many who have compared players with matched levels and who do hear differences between players. Please provide proof (asked for in numerous threads, but never provided).
Why are you requesting that from me? You're making the claim for "many who have matched levels", heard differences, etc. Those examples are very few and far between. If you could supply even a few of your claimed, "many", that would be interesting. But I doubt that you can. Particularly those who've demonstrated their steps taken to ensure that a precise enough level match was done, let alone any other steps taken to ensure a reasonable degree of rigor for their comparisons.

The bottom line for me is that the measured differences between properly functioning devices fall well below the known human hearing thresholds (established from decades of hearing research) and when someone does take the necessary time and hassle to do a proper DBT for properly working devices, they typically confirm this, i.e., no audible differences are reliably heard. When device measured differences rise above those hearing thresholds (either due to an intentional design choice or one device is no longer working properly), audible differences can be reliably heard.

You're welcome to think differently, but I think those who disagree are a bit out on a limb when considering where the greater weight of evidence lies. If you can provide a few of the claimed "many" positive test results, where test reliability has been established, then I will begin to reconsider the matter.

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post #55 of 62 Old 12-30-2015, 11:51 AM
 
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Well, there are many who have compared players with matched levels and who do hear differences between players. Please provide proof (asked for in numerous threads, but never provided).
This is using the analog sections of such players rather than all played through the same analog section?
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post #56 of 62 Old 12-30-2015, 04:58 PM
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This is using the analog sections of such players rather than all played through the same analog section?
Yes, using analog audio out (and the audio DACs of the players). Of course they will all sound the same if using digital audio out and the DACs of the preamp or AVR.
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post #57 of 62 Old 12-30-2015, 05:04 PM
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CruelInventions, this battle has been waged in thread after thread, so I'm not going to start another war in this thread. All those threads have simply stated strongly held opinions on both sides, with no actual "proof" (I haven't seen either side post details of how they did their experiments or measurements). I can tell you I did a 3-way comparison a few years back, and 2 players did sound very, very similar, but a 3rd had a different audio signature that was not at all subtle.
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post #58 of 62 Old 12-31-2015, 09:03 AM
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Happy Hopping, I did not see what the rest of your equipment was so I am not sure what and how you are connected and into what. Assuming you are not using something else as a dac and the new cd player you are thinking about as a transport, I would recommend you look at a new cd player since some of the new units out there are very good. I think someone here has said something about an oppo player which would be (in my opinion) a big step up from your Panasonic dvd player. I have an oppo 105d that I have been using for a while for all my disc playing and love it. I recently purchased off a local dealer for a good price an unopened Sony SCD XA5400ES for $850. I was told that the cd playback on the sony was on a par or better than the cd playback on the OPPO. After two weeks of back and forth evaluation I can safely say there is a difference between the two especially on cd playback but not so much on sacd. I have a large selection of cd's mostly gold cd's from mofi, dcc and others that motivated me to (within reason) to find the best cd playback I can afford. So my point is this, if you are using the internal dac's on the Panny then an upgrade to a better cd player would be a good idea, and you would likely hear the difference in sound quality. I was suprised to hear the sony was supperior in cd playback than my Oppo.

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post #59 of 62 Old 12-31-2015, 09:24 AM
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He said he is connecting with TOSLINK. The DAC and filters have no impact.

The answer to his question is a definitive "no".
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post #60 of 62 Old 12-31-2015, 03:27 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post
Yes, using analog audio out (and the audio DACs of the players). Of course they will all sound the same if using digital audio out and the DACs of the preamp or AVR.
Like I said earlier, he's not using analog outs, he's using digital so your observation may be of use only to those clinging to analog connections and reliance upon dacs in their players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JGM View Post
He said he is connecting with TOSLINK. The DAC and filters have no impact.

The answer to his question is a definitive "no".
Thanks for repeating this relevant bit.
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