Is there any sound quality improvement on CD player if I buy a new one now? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Is there any sound quality improvement on CD player if I buy a new one now?

My CD player is the 2001 Panasonic DVD player, model DVD-S35, it c/w Toslink only.

If I upgrade to a Cambridge AZur 651C Premium CD player, would there be any noticeable improvement on CD sound quality?

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/produc...nema/azur-651c

it doesn't have to be Cambridge, I only pick Cambridge as an eg.

because the output at the rear is about the same. It has Coaxial out, and I do know there is a small difference if you listen to classic music

I only listen to soft rock though
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post #2 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 05:53 AM
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There shouldn't be. DACs are a perfected technology. They should all do the conversion accurately resulting in the same analog sound. There are certainly specification differences from one DAC to another but bias controlled listening tests show no audible difference between them.
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post #3 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
There shouldn't be. DACs are a perfected technology. They should all do the conversion accurately resulting in the same analog sound. There are certainly specification differences from one DAC to another but bias controlled listening tests show no audible difference between them.
When did DACs achieve perfection?

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post #4 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raydunzl View Post
when did dacs achieve perfection?
1988.
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post #5 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 03:42 PM
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There are 2 schools of thought as to whether all CD players sound the same. In any case, for the same price, you may want to consider the Oppo 103D since it will also play SACDs and DVD-As.
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post #6 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
1988.
Can you add the Month, Date and Exact Time too????
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post #7 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 04:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class A View Post
Can you add the Month, Date and Exact Time too????
So you can compare to the version that you know?
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post #8 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post
Is there any sound quality improvement on CD player if I buy a new one now?
The short answer is, yeah, sure. As the state of the art progresses, improvements are inevitable. The hard part is discerning any real improvement from what's merely different.

You get what you pay for.  For professional advice, pay the professional rate.
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post #9 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Class A View Post
Can you add the Month, Date and Exact Time too????
Which time zone?
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post #10 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Daemon View Post
The short answer is, yeah, sure. As the state of the art progresses, improvements are inevitable. The hard part is discerning any real improvement from what's merely different.
But there isn't any difference either. The improvements have been in measurements, not in anything audible.
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post #11 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 05:18 PM
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Which time zone?
Ha! Eastern please.
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post #12 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post
My CD player is the 2001 Panasonic DVD player, model DVD-S35, it c/w Toslink only.

If I upgrade to a Cambridge AZur 651C Premium CD player, would there be any noticeable improvement on CD sound quality?

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/produc...nema/azur-651c

it doesn't have to be Cambridge, I only pick Cambridge as an eg.

because the output at the rear is about the same. It has Coaxial out, and I do know there is a small difference if you listen to classic music

I only listen to soft rock though
If there is no mechanical issues with that player, don't need blu-ray capability, stick with what you have.
If you want better sound, look for better performing speakers and acoustic space or better recorded music.
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post #13 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 05:53 PM
 
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If you're using digital output then the "SQ" of the player matters little since you're just using it as a transport essentially. Some claim to be able to discern higher quality from a dac in their Oppo when using its analog output, many don't and just cite the better quality is in features and build quality. YMMV.
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post #14 of 62 Old 08-10-2015, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
But there isn't any difference either. The improvements have been in measurements, not in anything audible.
What improvements in particular are you talking about?

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post #15 of 62 Old 08-11-2015, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Daemon View Post
What improvements in particular are you talking about?
Noise floor, lowered jitter, that sort of thing.
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post #16 of 62 Old 08-11-2015, 05:55 AM
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Depending on who you listen to, the response will vary.
I personally believe it will sound better.
I use a nice DAC in the form of the Marantz NA 11s1 connected to my Oppo 105.
Sounds a lot better than the Oppo alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post
My CD player is the 2001 Panasonic DVD player, model DVD-S35, it c/w Toslink only.

If I upgrade to a Cambridge AZur 651C Premium CD player, would there be any noticeable improvement on CD sound quality?

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/produc...nema/azur-651c

it doesn't have to be Cambridge, I only pick Cambridge as an eg.

because the output at the rear is about the same. It has Coaxial out, and I do know there is a small difference if you listen to classic music

I only listen to soft rock though
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post #17 of 62 Old 08-11-2015, 10:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petetherock View Post
Depending on who you listen to, the response will vary.
I personally believe it will sound better.
I use a nice DAC in the form of the Marantz NA 11s1 connected to my Oppo 105.
Sounds a lot better than the Oppo alone.
Depending on how you listen to, the results will vary. For example, level matched vs. unmatched.
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post #18 of 62 Old 08-11-2015, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spkr View Post
Depending on how you listen to, the results will vary. For example, level matched vs. unmatched.
Or to sum up, when comparing two DACs with a sighted comparison, most people will claim an audible difference. Those differences disappear in bias controlled, level matched comparisons. In other words, DACs that aren't defective don't affect the sound of a system. But an audiophile who expects or wants an audible difference will usually experience one unless he controls hearing bias.
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post #19 of 62 Old 08-12-2015, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
Noise floor, lowered jitter, that sort of thing.
Well noise floor has been far and beyond the needs of most listeners since 16-bit content became available! I can afford to buy retail content at the original AES / EBU bit depth, but nobody there really needs it.

Jitter is something that the industry has seemed content to maintain as their perennial hobgoblin to use as an excuse to introduce not-very-new and non-improved "solutions" (mainly PLL-based) to. Myself, I just skirt the issue by playing music from file images in computer RAM, with a well disciplined system TCXO as the time base. Have been for over a decade. PLL out, FIFO in; next issue.

I'm far more interested in more relevant stuff, such as multi-step DACs that show improvements in component tolerances in resistor ladder circuits. Right now that's the main difference between a $10,000 studio unit and what you find built into a CD player! What about those easily measurable numbers?

You get what you pay for.  For professional advice, pay the professional rate.

Last edited by Speed Daemon; 08-26-2015 at 02:07 PM. Reason: Spelling error. Oops!
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post #20 of 62 Old 08-12-2015, 12:25 AM
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I can make my Sony CD player sound different just by changing the selectable filter. So saying all CD PLAYERS SOUND THE SAME is silly, though the differences are subtle compared to say speakers. But the early CD players were not very good in my experience, saying DACS were perfected in 1988 is another WTF you talking about?
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post #21 of 62 Old 08-12-2015, 02:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Daemon View Post
Well noise floor has been far and beyond the needs of most listeners since 16-bit content became available! I can afford to buy retail content at the original AES / EBU bit depth, but nobody there really needs it.

Jitter is something that the industry has seemed content to maintain as their perennial hobgoblin to use as an excuse to introduce not-very-new and non-improved "solutions" (mainly PLL-based) to. Myself, I just skirt the issue by playing music from file images in computer RAM, with a well disciplined system TXCO as the time base. Have been for over a decade. PLL out, FIFO in; next issue.

I'm far more interested in more relevant stuff, such as multi-step DACs that show improvements in component tolerances in resistor ladder circuits. Right now that's the main difference between a $10,000 studio unit and what you find built into a CD player! What about those easily measurable numbers?
Apparently no audible difference since we don't detect them in bias controlled tests. Yes, if the noise inaudible lowering it doesn't make it more inaudible.
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post #22 of 62 Old 08-12-2015, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post
I can make my Sony CD player sound different just by changing the selectable filter. So saying all CD PLAYERS SOUND THE SAME is silly, though the differences are subtle compared to say speakers. But the early CD players were not very good in my experience, saying DACS were perfected in 1988 is another WTF you talking about?
I believe I've been saying that DACs don't have any audible effect on the system. If you manipulate the result of the conversion then that is a different issue. I would view an adjustable filter as a defect in design. The idea is to get accuracy not to create a new tone control. I think it is better to do tone manipulation with an equalizer or DSP. Early DACs predated 1988 but the answer was a bit tongue-in-cheek in response to a tongue-in-cheek question.
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post #23 of 62 Old 08-12-2015, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW View Post
Apparently no audible difference since we don't detect them in bias controlled tests.
May be, but since my joy is listening to music and not running tests, I would rather pick a DAC based on engineering evaluation, and then go and listen to some music.

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post #24 of 62 Old 08-12-2015, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Daemon View Post
May be, but since my joy is listening to music and not running tests, I would rather pick a DAC based on engineering evaluation, and then go and listen to some music.

Then that is what you should do.
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post #25 of 62 Old 08-13-2015, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by happy hopping View Post
My CD player is the 2001 Panasonic DVD player, model DVD-S35, it c/w Toslink only.

If I upgrade to a Cambridge AZur 651C Premium CD player, would there be any noticeable improvement on CD sound quality?

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/produc...nema/azur-651c

it doesn't have to be Cambridge, I only pick Cambridge as an eg.

because the output at the rear is about the same. It has Coaxial out, and I do know there is a small difference if you listen to classic music

I only listen to soft rock though
The bottom line is go and audition some if you can.

If you can hear a difference, purchase the best sounding player that fits your budget.

If you can't, purchase the cheapest you like or stick with what you have.
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post #26 of 62 Old 08-13-2015, 10:27 PM
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^That, on the surface, may appear to be sound advice (no pun intended). But exactly how you do the auditions makes all the difference in the world.

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post #27 of 62 Old 08-26-2015, 06:36 PM
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Question Basic Blu-ray player vs Dedicated CD player - is there any difference on Digital out

Hello there,

I'm looking for a CD player to feed Marantz PM6005 and KEF Q300.

My current setup is Pioneer BDP-170 for CDs and FLAC files from USB. Connected to Marantz PM6005 through coaxial.

Will I find any sonic improvement if I switch to a Marantz CD player for my Audio CDs? if yes, Is there any difference between CD5005 and CD6005 (the USB input for ipod in the later version is known to me, but not important feature for me; apart from that the inbuilt DACs are different (CD6005 uses Cirrus Logic CS4398, where as the CD5005 has CS4392) but I may take an optical/ coax out from CD player to feed in to PM6005 dac.

Please help me to decide. Thanks for your inputs.
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post #28 of 62 Old 08-26-2015, 06:42 PM
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If you're already playing FLAC files, why bother with a CD transport at all? You can spend $30,000 on a CD player and it'll sound no better than a file-based playout system.

You get what you pay for.  For professional advice, pay the professional rate.
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post #29 of 62 Old 08-26-2015, 06:52 PM
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If you are using digital outputs (toslink, coax, hdmi) then the DAC of the play is not doing anything. The DAC is only used when you are using the analog output of the player (Digital to analog converter). You only need to worry about the DAC on the Processor/Receiver.
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post #30 of 62 Old 08-27-2015, 04:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speed Daemon View Post
If you're already playing FLAC files, why bother with a CD transport at all? You can spend $30,000 on a CD player and it'll sound no better than a file-based playout system.
Do you own a $30,000 CD player to compare?
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