Benefits of a dedicated CD player - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 54 Old 06-18-2016, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by kucharsk View Post
Audible yes, imaging if you will, no.

I've found that volume levels do affect things like perception of brightness and bass but have zero effect on imaging once above a volume baseline and below ear-splitting.
No question about that. The issue is whether two units playing at exactly the same level will sound any different from one another. That is exactly why level matching is so important.
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post #32 of 54 Old 06-18-2016, 10:39 PM
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Now that I have my lumin d1 & t1 I sold all my disc based media. Everything is ripped to flac and sitting on a nas. Don't think I could ever go back to cd's. Digital has never sounded so good.

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post #33 of 54 Old 06-19-2016, 02:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JA Fant View Post
OP-

if you are into 2-channel Audio, then, a dedicated CD player is the way to go.
For a more Home Theater approach, a universal spinner fits the bill.
ABSOLUTELY agreed, Fant.

Or, if funds will allow (or if someone already has a nice separate CD player available), a dedicated CD player can be added to a home theater system's stack, as well, to keep wear and tear off the video source player.
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post #34 of 54 Old 06-19-2016, 03:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JA Fant View Post
if you are into 2-channel Audio, then, a dedicated CD player is the way to go.
Not for the sonic quality reason.
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
to keep wear and tear off the video source player.
Bluray players being so cheap, I don't see why that would be a concern.
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post #35 of 54 Old 06-19-2016, 03:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
Not for the sonic quality reason
Are you saying there's no sonic differences between dedicated CD decks and DVD/Blu-ray players when playing Redbook Compact Disc? If so, I staunchly disagree (save for, perhaps, some of the higher-end Oppos when using their more premium analog outs).

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Bluray players being so cheap, I don't see why that would be a concern.
Again, in a separate, two-channel system in a separate room of a home -- as I believe Fant was alluding to -- someone would be better served with using a dedicated CD player rather than adding a cheap Blu-ray player to the rig.
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post #36 of 54 Old 06-22-2016, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Tedd View Post
Ever consider ripping your cds to hard drive? Alternative options are to repurpose an older computer or something like using an Oppo's eSATA port
and external hard drive.


The biggest upside to a computer hosting the files, is the ability to build playlists and ease of access to individual tracks.
I'm surprised this post has not gained more traction. I ripped lossless all my CD's to an old computer running JRiver. The computer is run through an inexpensive Dragonfly DAC to my integrated amp. This DAC is as least as good as the DAC in my 20 year old Pioneer Elite PD-65. The Pioneer has been unused since I completed the transition.
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post #37 of 54 Old 06-22-2016, 09:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Are you saying there's no sonic differences between dedicated CD decks and DVD/Blu-ray players when playing Redbook Compact Disc? If so, I staunchly disagree (save for, perhaps, some of the higher-end Oppos when using their more premium analog outs).
That's what I'm saying based on level matched DBTs I've witnessed as well as others who have done such test. If you have done such test that resulted in different outcome, I'm interested in reading about it.
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Again, in a separate, two-channel system in a separate room of a home -- as I believe Fant was alluding to -- someone would be better served with using a dedicated CD player rather than adding a cheap Blu-ray player to the rig.
What's wrong with using cheap Blu-ray player as stereo music source?
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post #38 of 54 Old 06-23-2016, 01:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
That's what I'm saying based on level matched DBTs I've witnessed as well as others who have done such test. If you have done such test that resulted in different outcome, I'm interested in reading about it.
What's wrong with using cheap Blu-ray player as stereo music source?
Here we go again on this forum with the "scientific evidence and testing is required..." whenever these discussions come up (I realize there is a "Science" reference in the name of this forum, before I get accused of that)...

I don't have any scientific evidence based on any rigorous testing; I've sampled dozens upon dozens of different CD players and DVD players over the years, playing back Redbook CD audio, whether in my own system, at friends' houses or at shows like AES, and I have definitely heard sonic differences with my own ears in one way or another; as for using a cheap Blu-ray player as a serious dedicated music source, well, you can very well go ahead and do that if you'd like...but I would never. There are sonic benefits, to my ears at least, in using a dedicated Compact Disc playback device (one which boasts a solid, no-nonsense DAC like the Cirrus Logic variant in my Marantz changer) when setting up a music-only system. This is my opinion, and I offered it as such to those interested in the dynamics of this thread.

I have also stated that if someone doesn't have the room or resources to separate their systems -- two-channel from home theater -- then using a good Blu-ray player for audio CD playback is a suitable substitute (though getting, again, a dedicated CD player into that system would be ideal as well IMO); in my particular case, I would trust the CD playback capabilities of my Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray player in my 5.1 rig over some cheap, off-the-shelf Blu-ray deck any day of the week (do REALLY cheap BD players even exist?).
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post #39 of 54 Old 06-23-2016, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I've sampled dozens upon dozens of different CD players and DVD players over the years, playing back Redbook CD audio, whether in my own system, at friends' houses or at shows like AES, and I have definitely heard sonic differences with my own ears in one way or another;
Nobody is arguing that. The issue isn't that you hear sonic differences, the issue is why. Those of us who have engaged in "scientific" testing know that those sonic differences in optical players result from hearing bias, not from anything in the players themselves. It is understandable that you don't know that because you have never engaged in such a test. In our bias controlled tests we were surprised to discover that the panel couldn't tell a Radio Shack portable CD player from a $3500 Audio Research player. It seems bizarre to those without such experience but it is what it is.
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post #40 of 54 Old 06-23-2016, 03:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
In our bias controlled tests we were surprised to discover that the panel couldn't tell a Radio Shack portable CD player from a $3500 Audio Research player.
I'm sorry, but I find that very difficult to believe.

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It seems bizarre to those without such experience but it is what it is.
Before we go assuming things about people we hardly know (and don't know in terms of never having even met the individual face-to-face), let's dispense with rhetoric like "to those without such experience..." I DO in fact boast experience, but in the context of this topic, I still stand by the belief (and will continue recommending to the OP) that a well-constructed dedicated Compact Disc player is the best choice when setting up a two-channel, music-listening-only system. I have heard well-mastered CDs played on $89 Panasonic non-progressive-scan-capable DVD players, via their analog outs using nice respectable interconnects (i.e. not those provided in the box), and they sounded awful and thin (agreed upon by others who engaged in the listening demo with me).

This is going to dip into "audiophile technobabble Hunger Games"-esque banter at this point (seen it all too many times), so I am going to unsubscribe from this thread and leave it, from my perspective, with this: Anyone considering a decent audio-only system which will be playing back CD media should definitely look to a well-made (no one said an esoteric boutique variant that looks more like the mother ship from Independence Day than a disc transport) CD player and not a "cheap" Blu-ray or DVD player for such tasks.
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post #41 of 54 Old 06-23-2016, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
Here we go again on this forum with the "scientific evidence and testing is required..." whenever these discussions come up (I realize there is a "Science" reference in the name of this forum, before I get accused of that)...
Why is that bad??? Would you not want to know what fact based reality is?
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I don't have any scientific evidence based on any rigorous testing;
Sorry to hear that. I was finally hoping for such evidence so this debate can end. Or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I've sampled dozens upon dozens of different CD players and DVD players over the years, playing back Redbook CD audio, whether in my own system, at friends' houses or at shows like AES, and I have definitely heard sonic differences with my own ears in one way or another;
No doubt you sampled all those players. But, no one knows, not even you, in fact was able to detect a real difference. Yes, indeed, you perceived a difference but the two are not the same.


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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
as for using a cheap Blu-ray player as a serious dedicated music source, well, you can very well go ahead and do that if you'd like...but I would never.
Yes, that is a personal choice available to all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
There are sonic benefits, to my ears at least, in using a dedicated Compact Disc playback device (one which boasts a solid, no-nonsense DAC like the Cirrus Logic variant in my Marantz changer) when setting up a music-only system. This is my opinion, and I offered it as such to those interested in the dynamics of this thread.
Thanks for expressing your opinion. We all have one.
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post #42 of 54 Old 06-23-2016, 04:20 PM
 
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Why is that bad??? Would you not want to know what fact based reality is?
I just had to chime in one last time before unsubscribing when I came across this post -- I won't even go so far as to respond to the rest of this audiophile-sanctioned poop-throwing fest, but it is absolutely hysterical to me (actually not surprising on here) that someone would be defending the merits of scientifically-oriented test results against what everyday audio (i.e. level-headed) enthusiasts hear with their own two ears and can, based on that, provide input...

Wow.

Carry on, test subjects; I'm out!
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post #43 of 54 Old 06-23-2016, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
... that someone would be defending the merits of scientifically-oriented test results against what everyday audio (i.e. level-headed) enthusiasts hear with their own two ears and can, based on that, provide input...

Wow.

Carry on, test subjects; I'm out!
No, you are grossly mistaken. They perceive something. Knowing for sure that it is not imagined is the issue. You just don't know. Thinking or believing is not knowing.
But, again, one can believe anything they want to. Easy to believe; much harder to know.
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post #44 of 54 Old 06-24-2016, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I'm sorry, but I find that very difficult to believe.
I still have the Radio Shack (Stereophile recommended by the way.) Bring your CD player and we'll have a go at it.

Quote:
Before we go assuming things about people we hardly know (and don't know in terms of never having even met the individual face-to-face), let's dispense with rhetoric like "to those without such experience..."
Hardly know? I don't know you at all. But I do know that you have never engaged in a bias controlled comparison between two optical disc players.


Quote:
I DO in fact boast experience, but in the context of this topic, I still stand by the belief (and will continue recommending to the OP) that a well-constructed dedicated Compact Disc player is the best choice when setting up a two-channel, music-listening-only system. I have heard well-mastered CDs played on $89 Panasonic non-progressive-scan-capable DVD players, via their analog outs using nice respectable interconnects (i.e. not those provided in the box), and they sounded awful and thin (agreed upon by others who engaged in the listening demo with me).
No argument. I don't suggest you don't hear what you hear. I simply understand that the difference is not in the equipment. It is much more fun to believe it is in the equipment. I understand that. I went through it too.

Quote:
This is going to dip into "audiophile technobabble Hunger Games"-esque banter at this point (seen it all too many times), so I am going to unsubscribe from this thread and leave it, from my perspective, with this: Anyone considering a decent audio-only system which will be playing back CD media should definitely look to a well-made (no one said an esoteric boutique variant that looks more like the mother ship from Independence Day than a disc transport) CD player and not a "cheap" Blu-ray or DVD player for such tasks.
Best of luck to you. I understand you don't like reading these things. No point in reading what you don't like. It isn't very entertaining.
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post #45 of 54 Old 06-24-2016, 07:31 AM
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I dont know.. but I just got a Yamaha CDC-775 CD player to hook up to the RX-A1040 for a dedicated audio player. I like my CD's...
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post #46 of 54 Old 06-24-2016, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
.... I don't suggest you don't hear what you hear. I....
I would posit that he only perceives something. The brain tells him what is most likely not there.
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post #47 of 54 Old 06-25-2016, 02:19 PM
 
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I'm sorry, but I find that very difficult to believe.
Seeing is believing.

Audio Research player


Radio Shack CD player
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post #48 of 54 Old 06-26-2016, 06:53 AM
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I'm so old school I still subscribe to the idea that the signal should remain in the digital realm until it absolutely must be converted to analog, and then only once. Over the years, this has meant my CD players used a digital connection to the receiver. The type of connection has changed, but it's always been digital.

And, when connected in that fashion, sound-wise they're all the same. Some will have better error correction, shock resistance, features like a 5-disk tray or a big jukebox-style storage area, the ability to burn as well as read, etc. But in the end it's still just 1's and 0's. Fancy players don't "polish" the bits. That's not the way it works. That's not the way any of it works.

ALL of my sources connect digitally nowadays, and that's how I like it. It allows me to concentrate my sound quality dollars on the receiver and, most importantly of all, the speakers. As others have mentioned, I don't even play actual CDs anymore. Any CD I purchase today gets plopped into a (very basic) external CD player connected to my MacBook pro and immediately ripped to FLAC. They're installation media today, nothing more. And I use my receiver's Ethernet connection for music. Anyone who believes CD jitter is a thing (I'm on the fence) should've moved that way years ago, since--as far as I've ever been able to figure out--that connection style does away with jitter completely.

There are (obviously) folks who think they hear differences big or small in every change they make. I'll wager they dedicate a significant portion of their budget to cables and power conditioners. Hell there are people who spend enormous sums on turntables, a technology that dates back to the 19th century.

So, apologies to the departed IntelliVolume, no, when connected digitally there is no sonic difference between a $5k dedicated CD player bought from a boutique shop and a $50 blu-ray player from Wal Mart.

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post #49 of 54 Old 06-30-2016, 02:25 AM
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Originally Posted by LFEer View Post
What's wrong with using cheap Blu-ray player as stereo music source?
They're a pain in the ass to operate (especially without a screen) and usually very slow. Sometimes they're noisy as well, which is not a problem with a movie but can be with music. I don't use any spinner anymore but I understand the appeal of a CD player for straight music listening.
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post #50 of 54 Old 06-30-2016, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post

No argument. I don't suggest you don't hear what you hear. I simply understand that the difference is not in the equipment. It is much more fun to believe it is in the equipment.
I don't think it's about "fun", I think it's about anxiety. The idea that you can't trust your senses is very unsettling. Cognitive biases of any sort usually make people very nervous, aggressive sometimes. You're lying to yourself, you're your own enemy, you're hiding the reality and presenting a deformed version of it to your conscience.... that is scary stuff.
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post #51 of 54 Old 06-30-2016, 10:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Darvis View Post
They're a pain in the ass to operate (especially without a screen) and usually very slow. Sometimes they're noisy as well, which is not a problem with a movie but can be with music.
You must not have tried CD in Bluray player because it's not slow when loading CD and plays without TV screen on, plus it's quiet.
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post #52 of 54 Old 07-05-2016, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelliVolume View Post
I just had to chime in one last time before unsubscribing when I came across this post -- I won't even go so far as to respond to the rest of this audiophile-sanctioned poop-throwing fest, but it is absolutely hysterical to me (actually not surprising on here) that someone would be defending the merits of scientifically-oriented test results against what everyday audio (i.e. level-headed) enthusiasts hear with their own two ears and can, based on that, provide input...

Wow.

Carry on, test subjects; I'm out!
Agreed.
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post #53 of 54 Old 07-25-2016, 02:26 PM
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@FMW , can you post a link to the study you referred to?
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post #54 of 54 Old 07-27-2016, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by MMTV99 View Post
Is there an advantage to getting a dedicated CD player?
Audibly? No. When carefully level matched using external instrumentation you would not be able to discern any difference in a blind test even if you had a million dollar playback system.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there IS no concept of "accounting for personal taste/preference". As art consumers we don't "pick" the level of bass, nor the tint/brightness of a scene's sky, any more than we pick the ending of a novel or Mona Lisa's type of smile. "High fidelity" means "high truthfulness", faithful to the original artist's intent: an unmodified, neutral, accurate copy of the original master, ideally being exact and with no discernable alterations, aka "transparency".

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