The Revolutionary New Marantz SA-10 Player - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 179 Old 06-22-2017, 02:52 PM
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Hopefully, more guys will be purchasing this spinner thus creating more reviews. For the owners, beside Audio Advisor, where did you guys audition/purchase this player?
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post #32 of 179 Old 06-24-2017, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lightsout190 View Post
I'm curious, what kind of Amp and speakers do you have it connected to?

I am using an Audio Research LS-26 preamp with a Musical Fidelity M6PRX power amplifier.

The speakers are Vandersteen Treo.
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post #33 of 179 Old 06-24-2017, 07:30 AM
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At $7k must be the only pensioner with ears like a bat


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post #34 of 179 Old 06-26-2017, 02:52 AM
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I am considering adding the SA-10 to my system. I have active speakers in which the analog source is converted to digital (24bit-96hz) in order to accomplish the DSP crossover function. Does this DSP conversion set a ceiling on on the quality of the signal no matter the quality of the original source, whether it is LP or high rez? Is this DSP function a weak link?
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post #35 of 179 Old 06-26-2017, 09:12 AM
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Nice! Interesting mix though with an American preamp and British Power amp. I am not too familiar Vandersteen speakers.

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Originally Posted by commsysman View Post
I am using an Audio Research LS-26 preamp with a Musical Fidelity M6PRX power amplifier.

The speakers are Vandersteen Treo.
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post #36 of 179 Old 06-26-2017, 03:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsout190 View Post
Nice! Interesting mix though with an American preamp and British Power amp. I am not too familiar Vandersteen speakers.

You might want to go to the Stereophile website and look at the review and tests they did on the Treo a couple of years ago. There is a lot of information there.

They have also done reviews of his Model 2 and 3 and various others over a period of many years.

Vandersteen speakers are designed and manufactured by Richard Vandersteen in California, at his factory in Hanford. He has been there for almost 40 years, and his Model 2
is the best-selling high-end speaker of all time, according to an article Stereophile did on him a few years ago.

Last edited by commsysman; 06-26-2017 at 03:26 PM.
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post #37 of 179 Old 07-02-2017, 07:26 AM
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Is the digital output only DSD or can it be changed to PCM/bitstream?
If so, what is the benefit of DSD over PCM/bitstream as the processor must decode both digital streams.

I am not sure if our new Lyngdorf processor is DSD compliant (previous Marantz was not!), although I've inquired in that forum many times.

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post #38 of 179 Old 07-04-2017, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post
I would, too. I have a McIntosh MCD301 player now, and while I don't have complaints about the sound, it has begun to bother me a bit that there's no dedicated remote; while most functions are available on the remote, open/close of the tray is not, the included remote is a generic one.

This would be a lot of money to spend for the stated reason ($7K MSRP), but the SA-10's new design approach may be worth a plunge if I can put a bit of funds aside and sell/trade in my Mac player. I have a DV8400 universal player which is the 301's predecessor. It served well for seven years as my primary CD player.
the DV8400 is still a fine player for not much money. Have you auditioned in your (NYC) area?
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post #39 of 179 Old 07-12-2017, 02:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JA Fant View Post
the DV8400 is still a fine player for not much money. Have you auditioned in your (NYC) area?
No, only read reviews (which are glowing so far) and a bit on how the SA-10 is built. Discounts are possible, of course, but do I really want to go after something like this when I'm (I hope) only a few years from retirement? An audition would probably be a dangerous thing, even with that caveat, so I should tread lightly. The SA-10 is (to me) gorgeous, nevertheless; "elegant" and "sleek" are other words that come to mind.
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post #40 of 179 Old 07-16-2017, 05:42 AM
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Originally Posted by prepress View Post
No, only read reviews (which are glowing so far) and a bit on how the SA-10 is built. Discounts are possible, of course, but do I really want to go after something like this when I'm (I hope) only a few years from retirement? An audition would probably be a dangerous thing, even with that caveat, so I should tread lightly. The SA-10 is (to me) gorgeous, nevertheless; "elegant" and "sleek" are other words that come to mind.
I am looking to get a demo of the SA-10 myself.
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post #41 of 179 Old 08-12-2017, 08:38 AM
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I am wondering how a CD can be made to sound any better. Data between existing sampling points can be added by interpolating the existing data but this does not mean higher resolution is achieved. Right?

Any clean up is basically digital procesing. Right? If audio purists frown upon the idea of using EQ, how do they accept digital processing as improved resolution or accuracy?
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post #42 of 179 Old 08-13-2017, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post
I am wondering how a CD can be made to sound any better. Data between existing sampling points can be added by interpolating the existing data but this does not mean higher resolution is achieved. Right?

Any clean up is basically digital procesing. Right?

No. Upsampling cannot increase the frequency response or dynamic range (noise floor) of what's on the CD, yes. The improvement is in the analog output stage, which effects the cleanness and tone quality of the sound outputted from the player. You don't think all CD players sound the same, right? What do you think accounts for the differences? It's the DAC implementation and analog output stage that makes a particular player sound somewhat better than another -- not an increase in frequency response or 'resolution'.
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post #43 of 179 Old 08-13-2017, 11:07 AM
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This is my main concern using the analog output from a player. I need to use bass management on the AVR as I dont have full range speakers. In that case the AVR has to do A to D and then D to A. So part of the improvement made by the player may be lost. If I am using a $7000 CD player (hypothetically speaking), I need to make sure what is between the CD player and the speakers does not change what the player ouputs. Otherwise it doesnt justify the high cost of the source.

I have not done the research. Are there CD players that first do the bass management and then give the analog outputs. In that case I can send the low end from the CD player directly to the powered sub and high end to the AVR and use the direct mode of AVR. But then I cant change the sub level unless the CD player allows me to change that. You might ask why should I change the sub level. Well some songs have just too much bass and so I need a way to change the subwoofer level without having to get up every time.
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post #44 of 179 Old 08-13-2017, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post
This is my main concern using the analog output from a player. I need to use bass management on the AVR as I dont have full range speakers. In that case the AVR has to do A to D and then D to A. So part of the improvement made by the player may be lost. If I am using a $7000 CD player (hypothetically speaking), I need to make sure what is between the CD player and the speakers does not change what the player ouputs. Otherwise it doesnt justify the high cost of the source.

I have not done the research. Are there CD players that first do the bass management and then give the analog outputs. In that case I can send the low end from the CD player directly to the powered sub and high end to the AVR and use the direct mode of AVR. But then I cant change the sub level unless the CD player allows me to change that. You might ask why should I change the sub level. Well some songs have just too much bass and so I need a way to change the subwoofer level without having to get up every time.
Mupi- do you have a local Marantz dealer/retailer that has this spinner in showroom?
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post #45 of 179 Old 08-13-2017, 01:21 PM
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I am sure there is. I can only pretend to be interested in buying it :-) and then I have to buy some cable to give him some business for his time :-)
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post #46 of 179 Old 08-14-2017, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post
I need to use bass management on the AVR as I dont have full range speakers. In that case the AVR has to do A to D and then D to A. So part of the improvement made by the player may be lost.

Correct. Not worth getting the SA-10 if this is how you're going to set it up. It would only be worth getting it if you're going to connect its analog outs directly to your amp (or pre-amp) with no intermediate A/D and subsequent D/A conversion or digital processing.
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post #47 of 179 Old 08-14-2017, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post
Are there CD players that first do the bass management and then give the analog outputs.

The Oppo BDP-103/105 I think does, but only for CD playback -- not SACD (at least with DSD selected for SACD in the menu).


If you set the front speakers to small I believe it applies the bass management, i.e. crossover point, to them just the same as when playing Blu-ray movie soundtracks.
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post #48 of 179 Old 08-14-2017, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Mupi View Post
I am sure there is. I can only pretend to be interested in buying it :-) and then I have to buy some cable to give him some business for his time :-)
Let me know if you do as I am trying to find one in showroom for demo
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post #49 of 179 Old 08-15-2017, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mupi View Post
This is my main concern using the analog output from a player. I need to use bass management on the AVR as I dont have full range speakers. In that case the AVR has to do A to D and then D to A. So part of the improvement made by the player may be lost. If I am using a $7000 CD player (hypothetically speaking), I need to make sure what is between the CD player and the speakers does not change what the player ouputs. Otherwise it doesnt justify the high cost of the source.

I have not done the research. Are there CD players that first do the bass management and then give the analog outputs. In that case I can send the low end from the CD player directly to the powered sub and high end to the AVR and use the direct mode of AVR. But then I cant change the sub level unless the CD player allows me to change that. You might ask why should I change the sub level. Well some songs have just too much bass and so I need a way to change the subwoofer level without having to get up every time.
Even in direct mode the AVR may still be doing a ADC then DAC, and just not applying processing. If you are using an AVR, the Marantz, if probably a waste of money. As someone else has mentioned, a used Oppo, would make a good CD/SACD player, and just send the signal via HDMI to the AVR. Let the reciever apply base management, it's the best device for doing that.
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post #50 of 179 Old 08-15-2017, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by glangford View Post
Even in direct mode the AVR may still be doing a ADC then DAC, and just not applying processing.

It should not be. The whole purpose of 'source direct' or 'analog direct' (or whatever a particular brand calls it) is to bypass all digital circuitry and just go straight to and through the amp and out to the speakers.
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post #51 of 179 Old 09-24-2017, 11:58 AM
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I am looking for some help to try and understand what place (if any) the Marantz SA-10 would have in a future system I am trying to build. I am planning to switch to a stereo-only setup and for some time now I have been thinking of a Classé preamp-amp combo to drive my B&W diamonds (currently just the 805D2s, but I am hoping to upgrade in the future to towers). So, most of my music is stored on a PC, either as standard redbook files or as high-resolution (DSD) files. I have an Oppo BD player that plays any disc or file I give it. I am trying to decide if the Marantz would be a good long-term investment or I should just stick to Classé electronics without disc-playback capabilities. For example, would anyone here buy the SA-10 over the Classé CP-800? As far as I understand the Classé has also EQ options, while the Marantz only has fixed sound-curve presets. Both of them have a good USB DAC, but for the same price I don't understand why anyone would need a high-end transport. Are there any advantages of using discs, compared to just feeding the digital files through the USB DAC (that both the Marantz and the Classé have)? Also, I have read several reviews about the SA-10 that rave about how good the sound quality is. But I have not understood if the strong point of the SA-10 is its DAC or that it can play discs of various formats, as well. Is it just convenience for those who don't use computers (but then why the USB DAC)? Anyway, I am not against the Marantz; I am just trying to understand if it is sold as an alternative to preamps like the CP-800, or simply as a disc transport. If the latter is true, would people also buy a preamp (I would find that very redundant)?
Sorry for the long-winded post and thanks in advance for any helpful advice.
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post #52 of 179 Old 09-25-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by anoutsos View Post
I am looking for some help to try and understand what place (if any) the Marantz SA-10 would have in a future system I am trying to build. I am planning to switch to a stereo-only setup and for some time now I have been thinking of a Classé preamp-amp combo to drive my B&W diamonds (currently just the 805D2s, but I am hoping to upgrade in the future to towers). So, most of my music is stored on a PC, either as standard redbook files or as high-resolution (DSD) files. I have an Oppo BD player that plays any disc or file I give it. I am trying to decide if the Marantz would be a good long-term investment or I should just stick to Classé electronics without disc-playback capabilities. For example, would anyone here buy the SA-10 over the Classé CP-800? As far as I understand the Classé has also EQ options, while the Marantz only has fixed sound-curve presets. Both of them have a good USB DAC, but for the same price I don't understand why anyone would need a high-end transport. Are there any advantages of using discs, compared to just feeding the digital files through the USB DAC (that both the Marantz and the Classé have)? Also, I have read several reviews about the SA-10 that rave about how good the sound quality is. But I have not understood if the strong point of the SA-10 is its DAC or that it can play discs of various formats, as well. Is it just convenience for those who don't use computers (but then why the USB DAC)? Anyway, I am not against the Marantz; I am just trying to understand if it is sold as an alternative to preamps like the CP-800, or simply as a disc transport. If the latter is true, would people also buy a preamp (I would find that very redundant)?
Sorry for the long-winded post and thanks in advance for any helpful advice.
Very interesting query. Classe' is a sonic match for B&W speakers. The 805 is my fave model. No need for floorstander- simply add a subwoofer and you are set.
Do you have a Marantz dealer/retailer near your locale?
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post #53 of 179 Old 09-26-2017, 04:26 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply. At the moment, I am split between what you are suggesting, i.e. go from my Marantz AV8801/MM8077 combo to the Sigma SSP/AMP5 combo, add two subwoofers and keep the 805D2s; in the future I would also replace my B&W 685 centre and rears with the 805D3s and an HTM diamond centre. Alternatively, a simpler yet more high-end setup would be to switch to pure stereo: e.g. buy the appropriate Classé preamp and amp and one of the two top-end B&W 800D3 models. It is surprising how much more cost-efficient the first system is compared to the second one. However, most of my music is stereo and it makes sense to invest more in the frontLR speakers. Do you know how much better the 800D3 would be compared to the 805D3+2xSub? The only other thing that perhaps would affect my decision is that a 4-piece system (2xspeakers+2amps) sounds a lot simpler and more `timeless` compared to a 9-piece system, which may also be more prone to faults and expensive repairs. Obviously, whatever I choose, it will probably be the last thing I buy in terms of expensive audio equipment. Oh, and of course the first system would be great for movies, whereas for the second one I would have to mix-down the high-rez soundtracks to stereo.
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post #54 of 179 Old 10-03-2017, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by anoutsos View Post
Thanks for the quick reply. At the moment, I am split between what you are suggesting, i.e. go from my Marantz AV8801/MM8077 combo to the Sigma SSP/AMP5 combo, add two subwoofers and keep the 805D2s; in the future I would also replace my B&W 685 centre and rears with the 805D3s and an HTM diamond centre. Alternatively, a simpler yet more high-end setup would be to switch to pure stereo: e.g. buy the appropriate Classé preamp and amp and one of the two top-end B&W 800D3 models. It is surprising how much more cost-efficient the first system is compared to the second one. However, most of my music is stereo and it makes sense to invest more in the frontLR speakers. Do you know how much better the 800D3 would be compared to the 805D3+2xSub? The only other thing that perhaps would affect my decision is that a 4-piece system (2xspeakers+2amps) sounds a lot simpler and more `timeless` compared to a 9-piece system, which may also be more prone to faults and expensive repairs. Obviously, whatever I choose, it will probably be the last thing I buy in terms of expensive audio equipment. Oh, and of course the first system would be great for movies, whereas for the second one I would have to mix-down the high-rez soundtracks to stereo.
anoutsos-

I used to own the 805N. I know the 805D is much better by design. Still, you will have more flexibility w/ the monitor + sub(s) than a floorstander.
Yes, historically, I have heard the original 800 Nautilus, 802D and 801D. Picking a floorstander is more complex as it does not have movable cabinets.

At this level of performance and price, listen to as many speakers and subwoofers as possible.
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post #55 of 179 Old 10-04-2017, 02:36 AM
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JA Fant-

Thank you for the suggestion. I am not sure I can find any dealers in my area that will allow me to demo such expensive speakers/amps. However, I do like your idea about monitor + subs. The only problem is that I don't want to faff with manually blending the sub with the main speakers, so a processor would be beneficial, there. So, I have two options I am seriously considering now: (a) stay with multichannel and get the Sigma SSP/AMP5 combo, which will allow me to build a high-end surround system with monitors and subs, while maintaining respectable two-channel audio; (b) move to two-channel, i.e. sell/trade my AV8801/MM8077 and the 685 speakers, keeping only the 805D2s, and get the new Marantz SA-10/PM-10 combo (everyone is raving about its sound, at the moment). Obviously, case (b) would mean that I would have to wait until I have enough funds to upgrade my speakers, in order to have decent bass performance. On the other hand, the Marantz combo seems to me like a longterm investment: I can't see how such a system can easily become obsolete, even in 10/15 years from now (for the Sigma combo, on the other hand, I'm not so sure – already, a year or so after its introduction they are offering board upgrades and add-ons; it all sounds like flimsy corrigenda to me, also subject to higher probability of component failure).
If you were in my position, having a 50/50 ratio of movie watching/music listening, towards which direction would you go? On a different note, has anyone compared the two-channel performance of the Sigma combo to that of the Marantz?

Thanks
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post #56 of 179 Old 10-04-2017, 04:59 AM
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JA Fant-

Thank you for the suggestion. I am not sure I can find any dealers in my area that will allow me to demo such expensive speakers/amps. However, I do like your idea about monitor + subs. The only problem is that I don't want to faff with manually blending the sub with the main speakers, so a processor would be beneficial, there. So, I have two options I am seriously considering now: (a) stay with multichannel and get the Sigma SSP/AMP5 combo, which will allow me to build a high-end surround system with monitors and subs, while maintaining respectable two-channel audio; (b) move to two-channel, i.e. sell/trade my AV8801/MM8077 and the 685 speakers, keeping only the 805D2s, and get the new Marantz SA-10/PM-10 combo (everyone is raving about its sound, at the moment). Obviously, case (b) would mean that I would have to wait until I have enough funds to upgrade my speakers, in order to have decent bass performance. On the other hand, the Marantz combo seems to me like a longterm investment: I can't see how such a system can easily become obsolete, even in 10/15 years from now (for the Sigma combo, on the other hand, I'm not so sure – already, a year or so after its introduction they are offering board upgrades and add-ons; it all sounds like flimsy corrigenda to me, also subject to higher probability of component failure).
If you were in my position, having a 50/50 ratio of movie watching/music listening, towards which direction would you go? On a different note, has anyone compared the two-channel performance of the Sigma combo to that of the Marantz?

Thanks

I have been in your situation before. The best advice that I received was to visit dealers/retailers and listen to the gear of interest to me.
I pass along the same advice as it has never steered me into the wrong direction. Classe' or Marantz will be a sonic match for B&W speakers.
Use caution if considering Classe' as the company is calling it quits- could be a problem in the future for service/parts?
Find out as much as you can from current Classe' owners and users about options.
Keep me posted on which way you go
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post #57 of 179 Old 10-04-2017, 12:29 PM
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Is Classé really calling it quits? I thought that they were just discontinuing their Delta range; the Sigma range should continue to be developed, right?
Anyway, I've just discovered a potential showstopper for the Marantz: I have the OPPO BDP-93 and, apparently, it is not possible to output high-resolution audio from the OPPO, via the connections that Marantz supports (coax/toslink). So, I would either have to use the OPPO's analogue outs (not great) or settle for 48kHz audio via the toslink/coax. You would probably say, "yes, what do you expect? The SA-10 is not a processor; it's just a player", but I am not sure I am willing to sacrifice both multichannel _and_ high-resolution blu-ray audio, by purchasing the Marantz combo. (If I had the Oppo 105, that of course would have been a different game via its analogue outputs.) For music, I think the Marantz is a no-brainer, but to be honest the Marantz would have to be so much better than the Sigma SSP/AMP5 for music, as to justify sacrificing the multichannel/high-rez movie experience. Having said all that, I still think that the Marantz is a simple, analog system that would last a lifetime, while the Sigma feels a bit more susceptible to future format changes, etc. And, call me prejudiced, but "Made in Japan" sounds better to my ears than "Made in China" (well ... "Assembled in China"), in terms of reliability.
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post #58 of 179 Old 10-04-2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anoutsos View Post
Is Classé really calling it quits? I thought that they were just discontinuing their Delta range; the Sigma range should continue to be developed, right?
Anyway, I've just discovered a potential showstopper for the Marantz: I have the OPPO BDP-93 and, apparently, it is not possible to output high-resolution audio from the OPPO, via the connections that Marantz supports (coax/toslink). So, I would either have to use the OPPO's analogue outs (not great) or settle for 48kHz audio via the toslink/coax. You would probably say, "yes, what do you expect? The SA-10 is not a processor; it's just a player", but I am not sure I am willing to sacrifice both multichannel _and_ high-resolution blu-ray audio, by purchasing the Marantz combo. (If I had the Oppo 105, that of course would have been a different game via its analogue outputs.) For music, I think the Marantz is a no-brainer, but to be honest the Marantz would have to be so much better than the Sigma SSP/AMP5 for music, as to justify sacrificing the multichannel/high-rez movie experience. Having said all that, I still think that the Marantz is a simple, analog system that would last a lifetime, while the Sigma feels a bit more susceptible to future format changes, etc. And, call me prejudiced, but "Made in Japan" sounds better to my ears than "Made in China" (well ... "Assembled in China"), in terms of reliability.

Junk-sourcing to china, like too many other Audio companies, killed Classe' IMO.
Main operation in Canada is closing for Classe' The press has not reported any further findings or products that will be affected?

I do not buy Audio sourced to china knowingly (some companies are operating secretly). It is bad enough the items we are forced to buy from china (clothes, computers, phones...etc.).
Oppo has many, many followers. In part, their products are made in china. Oddly, their customer service has been noted to be excellent.

Marantz, like Sony Yamaha and Pioneer, is sourced in Japan. Especially the top-tier Audiophile gear, so no worries.
The SA-10 does appear to be a modern player- CD/SACD and USB input for digital files. I am anxious to see and hear this model at a dealer/retailer.
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post #59 of 179 Old 10-05-2017, 07:05 AM
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The large toroidal transformers that you find in current Classe amps are made by Rotel at their factory. Hardly junk. Rotel has an excellent reputation. On the Classe line they are closing October 6. They will sell off what is left of their current stock. All warranties will be handled by B&W New England. No upgrades strictly repair.
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post #60 of 179 Old 10-08-2017, 08:35 AM
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The large toroidal transformers that you find in current Classe amps are made by Rotel at their factory. Hardly junk. Rotel has an excellent reputation. On the Classe line they are closing October 6. They will sell off what is left of their current stock. All warranties will be handled by B&W New England. No upgrades strictly repair.
Thanks! for sharing- Class A
yes, it is junk for the newer Rotel/NAD products compared to the older made in England gear.
This goes back easily 10 years (2007) if not longer.
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