End of an Era: Best Buy Dumping Compact Discs - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 113 Old 03-06-2018, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by dnoonie View Post
Funny you should ask...

As I'm ripping 11 used CDs I just bought.

I listen to ripped CDs and flac downloads through JRiver and my OPUS #1 DAP (no streaming capability). I also listen on the big system with CDs in the OPPO player but this is likely to be short lived as I complete my whole home audio.

I've recently added whole house audio and after about a 15 year pause in collecting music I've started collecting again. Instead of 2 or 3 new albums a year it's been several dozen a month for the last 2-3 months, I'll likely slow down soon...maybe. Purchases have been new through Amazon, used through https://www.discogs.com and downloads from artists web sites, Prostudio, etc

Why not streaming? I'm often without internet so it's not practical. I use streaming to find new music, then purchase one way or another. Also before Tidal I found streaming quality unacceptable, when streaming becomes practical I'll get a DAP that supports MQA that streams and start streaming, but I'll still purchase the music I really like, 'cuase things change.

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CD's and CD players are are definitely dying among the mass public. Music streaming services like Tidal and Spotify are not the only reason for this. In fact the decline of CD's had started quite a while ago and one could even point to the Ipod as an early factor. Not to mention illegal downloading of MP3's. People started to choose continence, access to large volumes of storage and ease of obtaining music over quality. The vast majority of people would rather listen to an MP3 stored on a USB stick or iPod or smartphone bought from iTunes, etc than listen to a CD. Allot of newer cars are no longer coming with CD players and just offering USB ports and Bluetooth connectivity. Home AVR's are coming with airplay, bluetooth and built in streaming services like Spotify and Tidal. However along the true audiophiles of the world the CD and CD player will still be popular. There are still companies like Naim, Cambridge audio, Rega and ARCAM that make really high end CD players for those people. The downside is that even among audiophiles who have a huge CD collection many of them rip them and convert them to high res FLAC files where they can be stored on a hard drive and played through a high end network player.

I am guilty of falling into the simple continence of listening to streaming services as well. But I still find it much more satisfying to grab a CD off my shelf and put it in my CD player and let it play through my stereo. I think Cd's and CD player will still have a following for some time to come. Keep in mind that best buy sells what the mass market requires. So it is not surprising to see them drop CD's. When we should worry is when high end audio companies like Maratz, Cambrige and Naim stop making CD players. Then we know it's really dead.
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post #92 of 113 Old 03-06-2018, 03:51 PM
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In Japan however the story is the complete opposite. Globally 39% of music sales are physical (CD's & Vinyl) In Japan 78% are CD's & Vinyl, 2.4 Billion a year in sales. Also the number of record /CD stores totals 6,000 compared to the USA at 1,900. Looking at the overall Asian market there is still plenty of opportunity for companies to sell CD's and CD players. May not be as popular here but in other parts of the world sales are still good.
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post #93 of 113 Old 03-06-2018, 04:36 PM
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I noticed that Japan has a sort of "opposite" day on many things especially of electronic entertainment sales and use, good for them.

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post #94 of 113 Old 03-09-2018, 12:44 PM
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In Japan however the story is the complete opposite. Globally 39% of music sales are physical (CD's & Vinyl) In Japan 78% are CD's & Vinyl, 2.4 Billion a year in sales. Also the number of record /CD stores totals 6,000 compared to the USA at 1,900. Looking at the overall Asian market there is still plenty of opportunity for companies to sell CD's and CD players. May not be as popular here but in other parts of the world sales are still good.
And Japan would reissue albums on CD that have no chance of being released/reissued in the US.

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post #95 of 113 Old 03-15-2018, 01:18 PM
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Cool Man, I love the Compact Disc

I still buy tons of CD's. Lossless Digital and Streaming through my PC is what I usually use for listening to music but my preferred way is still the compact disc. I guess I just don't want to invest in a Vinyl setup. I also had a really bad experience with a long desired 12" skipping on me. I've always had a wonderful relationship with CD's. I get "most" of the album artwork and liner notes as well. I don't think CD's will vanish completely as record stores still carry tons of them. They are small, collectible, and if you treat them well they can last a very long time. I just love to look at the artwork, read the booklets, and have an active experience with music.
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post #96 of 113 Old 03-16-2018, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by GekkoSoze View Post
I loved my physical media but once you have tried spotify or other streaming services, why would you ever go back to CDs?
For the same reason people still enjoy blyray's, the same applies to CD's

You must have multiple streaming services to fill the gap where one lacks out of that favorite song/album.

Suddenly you get to the the point of paying around the same price per month anyway for multiple streaming services you could of bought a those few albums on CD for.

Convenience aside. That's the only reason..... I would still want my backup on CD for piece of mind. (particularly when i know how to do it And no, i ain't telling...

CD's still have their place, and until every singe song is available per one streaming service, and not forced to use many for those 'unique' songs, copyright holders are scared, then long live CD
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post #97 of 113 Old 03-16-2018, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by TECH198 View Post
For the same reason people still enjoy blyray's, the same applies to CD's

You must have multiple streaming services to fill the gap where one lacks out of that favorite song/album.

Suddenly you get to the the point of paying around the same price per month anyway for multiple streaming services you could of bought a those few albums on CD for.

Convenience aside. That's the only reason..... I would still want my backup on CD for piece of mind. (particularly when i know how to do it And no, i ain't telling...

CD's still have their place, and until every singe song is available per one streaming service, and not forced to use many for those 'unique' songs, copyright holders are scared, then long live CD
Agreed!

We had pandora, but it's no longer available in NZ. My wife and I tried Spotify for a few months, but didn't like the UI or the recommended playlists and realized we had more than enough of the music we like already in our library.
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post #98 of 113 Old 06-14-2018, 11:42 AM
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Just read, for the first time since 2012, CD and vinyl sales are outpacing downloads. Interesting.
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post #99 of 113 Old 06-15-2018, 02:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff43 View Post
Just read, for the first time since 2012, CD and vinyl sales are outpacing downloads. Interesting.
Streaming is more convenient vs downloading now especially with the major streaming services offering 30-40 million songs.

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post #100 of 113 Old 06-17-2018, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff43 View Post
Just read, for the first time since 2012, CD and vinyl sales are outpacing downloads. Interesting.
One annoying trend is when a niche title gets released only on vinyl without an accompanying download or CD. I get the interest in vinyl and I respect that, but to ignore a digital format altogether seems silly to me.

Not a fan of streaming at the moment, but it appears very useful in checking out new things.
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post #101 of 113 Old 06-17-2018, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by M.L.S. View Post
One annoying trend is when a niche title gets released only on vinyl without an accompanying download or CD. I get the interest in vinyl and I respect that, but to ignore a digital format altogether seems silly to me.

Not a fan of streaming at the moment, but it appears very useful in checking out new things.

To elaborate upon your point:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/34-hdt...l#post56352438

Personally, while it would be nice to see the CD physical format remain for those who prefer it, I would be fine with having only downloads supplemented by streaming.

However, my issue is one of provenance. It's easier to find out the mixing and mastering quality of a CD than it is to ascertain the same from the available download options. So you end up blindly paying for a download without knowledge of the version quality (if there has been more than one available, in terms of different masterings or mixes). This is more so true for songs and albums that have been around for a while vs brand new releases where there's probably only been one available recording version that title.
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post #102 of 113 Old 06-18-2018, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by M.L.S. View Post
One annoying trend is when a niche title gets released only on vinyl without an accompanying download or CD. I get the interest in vinyl and I respect that, but to ignore a digital format altogether seems silly to me.

Not a fan of streaming at the moment, but it appears very useful in checking out new things.
Streaming is fine, assuming you're getting lossless sound. Alot of people are finding out for the first time what "pops and hisses" mean. I get the vinyl thing just as I get the SACD thing but the streaming quality is varied and that's the one format where you don't always know what you're getting.

By far the best bang for the buck are CD's. I suppose a true audiophile would buy vinyl then immediately record to CD and then transform the CD to digital lossless for portable use. When I was a kid I would record the vinyl to tape immediately.

For me, CD's are the best way to go as the sound quality is arguably the best, can be transferred easily to your preferred listening format and never warp or scratch. SACD's are nice when multi-channel and vinyl is nice as you know your ears are hearing everything but they are both way overpriced.

Practically speaking, specifically meaning costs, I think vinyl is absurd. SACD's I love too but I also think they're absurd unless you get them around the same prices a CD.
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post #103 of 113 Old 06-19-2018, 05:25 PM
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SACD's are nice when multi-channel and vinyl is nice as you know your ears are hearing everything but they are both way overpriced.
What do you mean with vinyl "your ears are hearing everything"? What do you think is missing on a CD? Clicks, pops, rumble? Cd's are capable of far better dynamic range and frequency response than records.
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post #104 of 113 Old 06-19-2018, 06:54 PM
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What do you mean with vinyl "your ears are hearing everything"? What do you think is missing on a CD? Clicks, pops, rumble? Cd's are capable of far better dynamic range and frequency response than records.
With analog your ears hear the entire sound wave instead of 44,100 bits of that sound wave per second in a CD digital format. Of course your ears, and ultimately your brain, can't tell the difference.
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post #105 of 113 Old 06-19-2018, 07:15 PM
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What do you mean with vinyl "your ears are hearing everything"? What do you think is missing on a CD? Clicks, pops, rumble? Cd's are capable of far better dynamic range and frequency response than records.

"capable of"

Operative words, but reality is ?

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post #106 of 113 Old 06-23-2018, 05:03 AM
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Cd's are capable of far better dynamic range and frequency response than records.

Better dynamic range -- yes, but not frequency response. Records have up to 50Khz or more. Plus, it's a natural roll off of high frequencies.


Whether one prefers CD or vinyl is of course personal preference. I listen to mostly SACDs myself.
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post #107 of 113 Old 06-23-2018, 05:07 AM
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With analog your ears hear the entire sound wave instead of 44,100 bits of that sound wave per second in a CD digital format.

You don't hear the discrete samples. They are converted into a continuous analog waveform during playback by the DAC, albeit one that's cut off sharply at 22khz.
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post #108 of 113 Old 06-26-2018, 11:10 PM
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Not so fast. Digital signals converted to analog always have steps in the waveform, and it is why digital recordings always sound different that analog. Some people say that lack of full information in digital recording gives people headache because human brain must compensate lack of information in digital signal.(?????) Higher resolutions 96, 192, or SACD formats are smother, the steps are smaller but they are there.
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post #109 of 113 Old 06-27-2018, 06:43 AM
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Some people say that lack of full information in digital recording gives people headache because human brain must compensate lack of information in digital signal.(?????)
This is the first I've heard about such headaches. I suppose a new mandate is in order for an Ibuprofen sample with every CD.
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post #110 of 113 Old 06-28-2018, 03:06 AM
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This is the first I've heard about such headaches. I suppose a new mandate is in order for an Ibuprofen sample with every CD.
First you need to come up with a way to listen to digital music without converting it to analog.

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post #111 of 113 Old 06-28-2018, 07:12 AM
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Not so fast. Digital signals converted to analog always have steps in the waveform, and it is why digital recordings always sound different that analog. Some people say that lack of full information in digital recording gives people headache because human brain must compensate lack of information in digital signal.(?????) Higher resolutions 96, 192, or SACD formats are smother, the steps are smaller but they are there.
This is a common misnomer on digital signals. You need to read the Nyquist Therom. When properly converted back to it's analog waveform there are no 'steps' in the waveform, it is the original waveform. The definition:

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Nyquist's theorem: A theorem, developed by H. Nyquist, which states that an analog signal waveform may be uniquely reconstructed, without error, from samples taken at equal time intervals. The sampling rate must be equal to, or greater than, twice the highest frequency component in the analog signal.
There are very rigorous mathemetical proofs available on line, most involving fourier transformations, if you are so inclined.

This is why CDs have a sample rate of 44.1 khz, and that CD output is brickwalled at 22 khz (1/2 the sample rate).

Higher rez music allows for higher frequency content to be a part of the reconstructed waveform. Although in theory inaudible, it may have a bearing on the perception of a sound at lower frequencies. For example a vibrating string does not put out one frequency, but a fundamental frequency f(1) as well as overtones f(2), f(3), ..., f(n) where n--> infinity (the infinite series quickly converges and the higher level the overtone, the less a factor it is). (See solution to the problem of a vibrating string.) Overtones give a sound it's character, without overtones everything would sound the same. So the argument goes that higher frequency sounds even greater than 20 kHz provide for a better 'character' of sound for the content below 20 kHz , particularly for instruments in the upper midrange to treble range, (strings, cymbals, bells, female vocalists like Julie Andrews who could sing over a broad range of octaves, etc.) The debate of the worth of higher frequency content of SACD, DVD-A, or high rez digital files rages on. I like them, I'm not sure about the sonic benefit in term of frequency response, but generally those releases are better cared for in mastering, which at times justifies the use.

None of this has anything to do with the analog waveform being notched by sampling. That doesn't happen.

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post #112 of 113 Old 07-20-2018, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post
Streaming is more convenient vs downloading now especially with the major streaming services offering 30-40 million songs.
What's the internet speed required to stream a decent high quality audio track?
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post #113 of 113 Old 07-21-2018, 01:54 AM
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What's the internet speed required to stream a decent high quality audio track?
Not much for say CD quality. A CD is 1,411 kbit/s. 96/24 would be 4,608 kbit/sec, 192/24 would be 9,216 kbit/sec. I can download a whole 96/24 album from hd tracks in a few minutes with a cable modem that maxes out at about 30 gbit/s, so I could stream it easy.

If you can stream video at home, even SD video, you can stream decent audio quality. Of more concern make sure you have a newer router if you are using wireless in the house. When I got a 4k tv and streamed 4k video, the cable co bandwidth wasn't the problem, the router wireless connection was.

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