Playing CD's again.loving it.. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 02-04-2019, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Playing CD's again.loving it..

Have not had a dedicated cd player for about 7? years. Everything on sticks, hard drives, streaming, or pc. My library is about 1000 cd's. Running a used Denon 4311CI and an Onkyo 2ch amp for fronts in a 9.4 format sounding great for music mostly, not so much a movie goer( but they sound great also). Just seemed to miss discs. Am I that old? 48btw.



Got burnt on Fleabay TWICE for an old multi-disc player. One didn't even read discs. Got a refund. Seller said just throw it away. Other one was not even the model in the listing. Shipped back and got the refund.



Going by many recommendations that I have seen on here, I looked at Accessories4less. Got this Yamaha player the other day and couldn't be happier. "Factory refurbished" with a one year warranty. Was actually $20 cheaper two days ago??. Anyway, sounds GREAT!. The old Denon 4311CI with the player sounds awesome. Just wanted to give a heads up to those looking. I am not a dumpster diver, but most on fleabay are, I guess.



https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...xchange/1.html
My first test cd. Love it.
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post #2 of 24 Old 02-04-2019, 06:35 PM
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Is the sound quality of a CD played directly better than the sound quality of a CD ripped to a lossless file such as wav or flac? Does it depend on the DAC of the CD player and the DAC of the media player in the case of files?
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post #3 of 24 Old 02-04-2019, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
Is the sound quality of a CD played directly better than the sound quality of a CD ripped to a lossless file such as wav or flac? Does it depend on the DAC of the CD player and the DAC of the media player in the case of files?

I really can't answer these. I am sure there are numerous threads regarding the comparisons. When I ripped all my cd's years ago, I used Handbrake. I don't have any intention of doing that again. They are now mp3, so a cd does sound much better. As far as the DAC, I am running the Yamaha into the Denon 4311CI via component cables. From what I have read and researched, the 4311 has an excellent DAC.



As you can tell, no audiophile here. Just know it sounds great with the 9.4 setup. The post was mainly to recommend Accessories4less to anyone looking for used/refurbished gear.
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post #4 of 24 Old 02-05-2019, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
Is the sound quality of a CD played directly better than the sound quality of a CD ripped to a lossless file such as wav or flac? Does it depend on the DAC of the CD player and the DAC of the media player in the case of files?
This is something I've been investigating of late. While this is not definitive, it may be of interest.

My sources are an Oppo 203 blu ray player and a home theater PC containing lossless rips in WMA format. The HTPC uses JRiver Media Center to play music. Both sources are configured to send BitStream to an Anthem AVM 60 processor. Source connections to the processor are both HDMI.

In comparing a CD played on the Oppo to the lossless rip played on the HTPC, I can't hear any difference. The Oppo supports playing music from a memory stick in a USB port on the back of the unit, so I thought perhaps hi-rez files might sound different. After loading some hi-rez files from HD Tracks onto a memory stick, I plugged that into the Oppo. Playing hi-rez from the Oppo or from the HTPC sounded the same.

I have not explored the analog outs from the Oppo and it's possible that this could impact sound quality.

Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #5 of 24 Old 02-06-2019, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
This is something I've been investigating of late. While this is not definitive, it may be of interest.

My sources are an Oppo 203 blu ray player and a home theater PC containing lossless rips in WMA format. The HTPC uses JRiver Media Center to play music. Both sources are configured to send BitStream to an Anthem AVM 60 processor. Source connections to the processor are both HDMI.

In comparing a CD played on the Oppo to the lossless rip played on the HTPC, I can't hear any difference. The Oppo supports playing music from a memory stick in a USB port on the back of the unit, so I thought perhaps hi-rez files might sound different. After loading some hi-rez files from HD Tracks onto a memory stick, I plugged that into the Oppo. Playing hi-rez from the Oppo or from the HTPC sounded the same.

I have not explored the analog outs from the Oppo and it's possible that this could impact sound quality.
I too use an Oppo 203 as my CD source. I have all my HD tracks purchased high rez music and CD rips on 256 gb ssd based USB stick that I plug into the front usb port. I navigate the stick via the iOS media control app. Great solution. I use HDMI to my Anthem MRX-520 which is only used for two channel with my supercharged song towers. I use the analog to my burson audio headphone amp. I also have an Oppo 95 hooked up the same way, but navigating the 95 via an android app on a kindle fire (no iOS app for the 95). I have just finished re ripping all my CDs to ALAC (apple lossless). I usually then us XLD to convert to flac because the 95 will not read ALAC.

The analog of the 203 sounds really good through my burson audio headphone amp and my Sennheiser 800S headphones. It is almost indistinguishable to listening to my 95 the same way via it's two channel analog. To maximize the quality of the analog outs on the 203 there is a setting for sdif that needs to be set to maximum bit rate. I don't know why but Oppo claims this will provide the best analog out capability of the unit.

I haven't tested back to back usb vs disc spinning, but they should be indistinguishable. You are getting bit for bit the same thing either way. Disc spinning may be a bit more error prone to a 'error correction applied' rip, but I doubt it's noticeable. Plus Oppo is out of business and I won't be able to get another one, so I'm inclined to save wear and tear on the loader by doing music playback via usb and saving the mechanical disc spinning for movies. Hopefully this will help make my player last as long as possible. The only music disc I spin are SACDs.
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post #6 of 24 Old 02-06-2019, 06:06 AM
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^Well, this may be your laugh for the day. I didn't realize until reading your post that there's a USB port on the front panel of the Oppo. Time to review the Oppo doc a little more closely!

I don't know which DAC Anthem uses in the MRX 520 but Anthem confirmed that the AVM 60 uses the AKM AK4458NV. That's the same DAC used in the Oppo 203. Short of implementation differences, the analog outs from the Oppo could sound pretty similar to those of the AVM 60 but that's just a guess. I need to find time to try the Oppo analog outs for a comparison.

According to the Burson web site, at least some of their products use Sabre DACs, which seem to routinely get accolades for high end quality. Which Burson product are you using? Have you compared Oppo-to-Burson sound to Oppo-to-MRX 520 sound? If so, how did they stack up?
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Just one more upgrade and things will be perfect.
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post #7 of 24 Old 02-06-2019, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
Is the sound quality of a CD played directly better than the sound quality of a CD ripped to a lossless file such as wav or flac? Does it depend on the DAC of the CD player and the DAC of the media player in the case of files?

It's not even slightly better. But what is better is the experience of just putting a disc in the player, pressing play, and relaxing - and not being tempted to keep changing the song. A better listening experience can make things sound better to you. That subjective experience affects how we humans perceive the audio even though scientific tests would show FLAC to be exactly the same quality. (And any modern DAC is fine.)
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post #8 of 24 Old 02-06-2019, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill-99 View Post
^Well, this may be your laugh for the day. I didn't realize until reading your post that there's a USB port on the front panel of the Oppo. Time to review the Oppo doc a little more closely!

I don't know which DAC Anthem uses in the MRX 520 but Anthem confirmed that the AVM 60 uses the AKM AK4458NV. That's the same DAC used in the Oppo 203. Short of implementation differences, the analog outs from the Oppo could sound pretty similar to those of the AVM 60 but that's just a guess. I need to find time to try the Oppo analog outs for a comparison.

According to the Burson web site, at least some of their products use Sabre DACs, which seem to routinely get accolades for high end quality. Which Burson product are you using? Have you compared Oppo-to-Burson sound to Oppo-to-MRX 520 sound? If so, how did they stack up?
My understanding is the MRX 520 uses the 4458VN DAC as well. I've never hooked the Oppo up to the Anthem via analog, just hdmi so I can't really compare. The dAC is the 203 sounds very good via the analog to my headphone rig and the combination of the 203 to 520 via hdmi is also very good. Audioholics found the 203 to sound almost as good as the 205 via analog, which is a plus given the 205 has the ESS 9038 PRO dac. The Burson I"m using doesn't have a DAC its just a pure class A headphone amp. It's the Soloist MKII. So when listening to headphones I'm using the Oppo AKM 4458VN DAC. My Oppo 95 has a ESS 9018 and it's hard to tell a difference with the AKM 4458VN in my 203 via headphones. It might be a tad smoother, but that is not a blind test. Suffice it to say the analog implementation in the Oppo 203 is quite good.
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post #9 of 24 Old 02-06-2019, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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It's not even slightly better. But what is better is the experience of just putting a disc in the player, pressing play, and relaxing - and not being tempted to keep changing the song. A better listening experience can make things sound better to you. That subjective experience affects how we humans perceive the audio even though scientific tests would show FLAC to be exactly the same quality. (And any modern DAC is fine.)

Exactly, DonoMan. The usb with all the cd's going through the Denon is great, don't get me wrong. Like I said , had been years since I went through the "process" with a cd. Put in 5, hit random, go about your life around the house. What also makes it "sound" better, I believe, is that you think you got a good deal on the piece. Part of the fun is getting people to pick out a few cd's to play. They look through the collection, tell stories about certain discs and "wow you got that", if they are actually looking at something. Way better than just streaming, or me hitting enter for a track or disc on usb.
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post #10 of 24 Old 02-06-2019, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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I believe it's called human interaction. Me and girl went out for pizza at Godfathers(awesome) the other night. Maybe ten couples there on a date night younger than us(almost 50yrs old). We were the ONLY ones who did not have a phone plastered to their face. Really sad. Nobody talking, just pointing and clicking...
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post #11 of 24 Old 02-10-2019, 10:32 AM
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I've been on a tear lately with cds mostly ( some sacds and multichannel too). Not into vinyl ( maybe someday- who knows). Also have a large digital collection. Using an oppo 103 and Emotiva ERC-3.
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post #12 of 24 Old 02-10-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DonoMan View Post
It's not even slightly better. But what is better is the experience of just putting a disc in the player, pressing play, and relaxing - and not being tempted to keep changing the song. A better listening experience can make things sound better to you. That subjective experience affects how we humans perceive the audio even though scientific tests would show FLAC to be exactly the same quality. (And any modern DAC is fine.)
Not even slightly worse, either.
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post #13 of 24 Old 02-10-2019, 02:03 PM
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Exactly, DonoMan. The usb with all the cd's going through the Denon is great, don't get me wrong. Like I said , had been years since I went through the "process" with a cd. Put in 5, hit random, go about your life around the house. What also makes it "sound" better, I believe, is that you think you got a good deal on the piece. Part of the fun is getting people to pick out a few cd's to play. They look through the collection, tell stories about certain discs and "wow you got that", if they are actually looking at something. Way better than just streaming, or me hitting enter for a track or disc on usb.
This Modern Age.


I used to be able to go to someone's house and, by looking at their music collections, wall art, and bookshelves, be able to get an idea of the person.


Between streaming, Kindles and tablets, it's impossible to tell anything now. And people don't look at wall art anymore. They just look at their phones.
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post #14 of 24 Old 02-10-2019, 02:19 PM
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Have not had a dedicated cd player for about 7? years. Everything on sticks, hard drives, streaming, or pc. My library is about 1000 cd's. Running a used Denon 4311CI and an Onkyo 2ch amp for fronts in a 9.4 format sounding great for music mostly, not so much a movie goer( but they sound great also). Just seemed to miss discs. Am I that old? 48btw.



Got burnt on Fleabay TWICE for an old multi-disc player. One didn't even read discs. Got a refund. Seller said just throw it away. Other one was not even the model in the listing. Shipped back and got the refund.



Going by many recommendations that I have seen on here, I looked at Accessories4less. Got this Yamaha player the other day and couldn't be happier. "Factory refurbished" with a one year warranty. Was actually $20 cheaper two days ago??. Anyway, sounds GREAT!. The old Denon 4311CI with the player sounds awesome. Just wanted to give a heads up to those looking. I am not a dumpster diver, but most on fleabay are, I guess.



https://www.accessories4less.com/mak...xchange/1.html
My first test cd. Love it.



Thanks! for sharing and welcome back to CDs. Those cd players made in Japan still hold up well.
Unfortunately, eBay will allow anyone to sell anything...
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post #15 of 24 Old 02-11-2019, 12:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Graustark View Post
This Modern Age.


I used to be able to go to someone's house and, by looking at their music collections, wall art, and bookshelves, be able to get an idea of the person.


Between streaming, Kindles and tablets, it's impossible to tell anything now. And people don't look at wall art anymore. They just look at their phones.

Yes Graustark. I am almost 50(???) now. Have a younger coworker(late 20's) that will NOT stop bugging me about getting a 10inch tablet. Like my life is incomplete without one. "But you can watch movies on it", he says. "What the hell do you think that big ass Samsung in my living room is for". I say. "But you can watch them at lunch in your car". "Lunch is for a couple smokes, eating and relaxing" is my reply. I just don't get it.



Walk into my house and the first things you will see are a few of my prized collection..
Would this give you a little hint as to the type of person I am....lol
(BEFORE he added "RAY")

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post #16 of 24 Old 02-11-2019, 11:20 PM
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True, that.


Everywhere I see people standing around in public, they're all glued to a screen. They don't interact at all.


Depressing, actually.
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post #17 of 24 Old 02-12-2019, 08:48 AM
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Thank you OP for this thread. More will be discovering and rediscovering CD advantage. Including discs that've been gloriously remastered. That's a big deal because Masters may not be available some day.

I won't disparage youth and their listening, reading, talking, loving habits. The important thing is sustaining the Arts. Remember, too, many from this demographic have discovered vinyl. Next step could be CD.
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post #18 of 24 Old 02-12-2019, 10:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you OP for this thread. More will be discovering and rediscovering CD advantage. Including discs that've been gloriously remastered. That's a big deal because Masters may not be available some day.

I won't disparage youth and their listening, reading, talking, loving habits. The important thing is sustaining the Arts. Remember, too, many from this demographic have discovered vinyl. Next step could be CD.

Panson friend, I would LOVE to get back into vinyl. Just can't pull the trigger right now. Was brought up on it. I was kinda in between. I owned a few records when younger. First one was "Rock 80", wore it out! Never owned an 8 track. Had a few cassettes, mostly made my own "mix tapes". Then was there at the start of cd's. Used to belong to a couple of the clubs where you could get a box full for 1cent..lol. Nowadays it is just kinda BLAHH. When I retire in about ten years, I am going back to step 1-vinyl.
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post #19 of 24 Old 02-12-2019, 12:05 PM
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Panson friend, I would LOVE to get back into vinyl. Just can't pull the trigger right now. Was brought up on it. I was kinda in between. I owned a few records when younger. First one was "Rock 80", wore it out! Never owned an 8 track. Had a few cassettes, mostly made my own "mix tapes". Then was there at the start of cd's. Used to belong to a couple of the clubs where you could get a box full for 1cent..lol. Nowadays it is just kinda BLAHH. When I retire in about ten years, I am going back to step 1-vinyl.
I wish you well. I love retirement, and I loved vinyl for many years. Sound, feel, smell, everything. Eventually, I found storage, cleaning, and what would be serious equipment upgrade to the next level, all counterproductive. Leaving it behind became easier as life downsized and CD remastering improved.

When you re-pull the vinyl trigger, you'll probably find it easier, as in discrete collecting and listening. Enjoy.
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post #20 of 24 Old 02-13-2019, 11:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I wish you well. I love retirement, and I loved vinyl for many years. Sound, feel, smell, everything. Eventually, I found storage, cleaning, and what would be serious equipment upgrade to the next level, all counterproductive. Leaving it behind became easier as life downsized and CD remastering improved.

When you re-pull the vinyl trigger, you'll probably find it easier, as in discrete collecting and listening. Enjoy.

Thank you for the warm wishes. I was the "DJ" back in the 70's when mom and dad wanted a record loaded for the house parties. Elvis, Supremes, Tom Jones, The Carpenters....loved those days. EVERYBODY drinking and smoking, playing cards, having a good time talking and laughing. No cellphones. Maybe that is why I long for them again now that I am their age NOW. Take care, bringing back some great memories.
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post #21 of 24 Old 02-16-2019, 10:14 AM
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Playing CD's again.loving it..

I’m doing both; playing some of my 400+ CDs more often lately. And also back into Vinyl, just purchased my 2nd Turntable this week ; First one was last January
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post #22 of 24 Old 03-03-2019, 11:18 AM
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Drop a high speed DAC into the equation and use your old CD’s digital out and rediscover CD’s all over again. Unless you’re rocking an Esoteric or a dCS, those legacy DACs don’t age well.
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post #23 of 24 Old 03-03-2019, 12:11 PM
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Drop a high speed DAC into the equation and use your old CD’s digital out and rediscover CD’s all over again. Unless you’re rocking an Esoteric or a dCS, those legacy DACs don’t age well.
What amazes me about legacy DACs (and I'd like to have one or two of my old faves, though that's probably more nostalgia and curiosity than anything else) is the prices people are asking. On eBay, I see old Wadias and Thetas going for thousands, when a Topping D30 goes for pennies and will outperform any of the legacies.



Certainly, those old high-enders were built like tanks and were aesthetically stunning. A Theta DS Pro Gen Va makes for a more impressive visual presentation than the Topping, which looks like the box you keep your extra car keys in. But I notice a lot of these eBay offerings also get relisted a lot when no one wants to meet the asking price. Or the second asking price. Or the third...
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-03-2019, 12:55 PM
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For some reason I thought this thread would be about switching from records to cd's. Interesting though. I have a large collection of cd's and records too. If anything ever happened to them I would be lost. I have ripped all the cd's to lossless flac and am in the process of uploading all my music to the cloud. At least I will have that if anything bad happened to my collection, such as a catastrophic fire or something. Anyways I listen to mostly cds these days (I am 48) although I dabbled in records for a while (too much work keeping them clean). I grew up spinning records and never remember having to clean them like I do now-a-days.
I listen to my digital collection on a NUC PC and a Yggydrasil dac to my amp and speakers. Sounds great to me. I rip all my cds with eac to flac and I doubt there is a sound quality difference between that and playing them back from a spinning disc, all things being equal like the dac, etc. I find the convenience of being able to access my library from my couch without changing discs to be worth the effort to rip them. So that's my two cents.
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