Compared CD player with Blu-ray Player with PS3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 14Likes
  • 3 Post By lightsout190
  • 2 Post By Graustark
  • 4 Post By smitty
  • 2 Post By Graustark
  • 2 Post By Jack D Ripper
  • 1 Post By Captain Crunch
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 8 Old 02-22-2019, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bradford, Ontario
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Compared CD player with Blu-ray Player with PS3

So I decided to do a little experiment with playing CD's. I wanted to see for sure how much of a difference the sound quality would be when playing a CD through a good quality CD player vs budget blu-ray player vs a PS3. The reason I did this was based on a post I read on another forum where the person stated that it was a waste of money to buy a CD player when his game console or blu-ray player could play them. My argument was, yes they can play them, but not like a good CD player can.



So here is what I did. I took the same same two CD's of different types of music and played the same songs in each player.



The equipment which I used is as follows:



CD Player - Cambridge Audio CD 10.
Blu-ray player - LG 4K but not UHD. It's about 6 years old and cost about $80 at the time.

Game Console - PS3, quite old but still works well.

AVR - Marantz SR5010, 7 channel with 100 watts rated per channel.

Speakers - Monitor Audio Bronze 6, only the left and right were used.



The CD player is connected to the AVR using a pair of high quality RCA analog cables. So the DAC in the CD play is doing the digital to analog conversion. The blu-ray player and PS3 are connected via HDMI so the AVR's DAC is doing the digital to analog conversion.



Now for the test: first i played an Andrea Boccelli CD in my CD player. I had the AVR set to direct playback so the sound only came in as PCM two channel on the left and right speakers. No sub was active. It sounded great. Then I took the same CD and played the same songs in my blu-ray player at the same volume. Again with the AVR set to direct. It sounded good but not like the CD player did. Then I played the same CD and songs again in the PS3. It actually sounded better than I though it would and better than the blu-ray player but not like the CD player. I repeated this with a Tracy Chapman CD in each player and the results were the same.



So I concluded that a good dedicated CD player is still far better than using a blu-ray player or game console. I actually did a video of this which I am considering posting to Youtube.
lightsout190 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 8 Old 02-22-2019, 11:19 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Some here may be impressed, some won't. The ones who won't will base their lack of enthusiasm, rightly, on the fact that you did a sighted test of three sources. As a sighted test, your conclusions have no validity (not to sound too pedantic, sorry).



There are any number of problems. First, when you know what you are listening to, your biases toward equipment (brand name, type of device, etc.) will unconsciously affect your judgment about the sound. Second, unless you level-matched the devices (CD player, AVR) within at least .5 dB of each other, you aren't making any valid comparison. This must be done with a reasonably sensitive sound level meter. We know that if one source is perceptibly louder than another, people perceive the louder source as sounding "better". Third, you've really only tested two sources: the CD player and the AVR, because you are running two sources through the AVR's DAC. Fourth, you are controlling which source gets played when, so see 1 and 3, above. Fifth, it is extremely difficult to retain an accurate memory of sound in the time it takes to switch between two different sources. Differentiating among three? Almost impossible, unless at least one of the sources is broken or very poorly designed.


Look, we've all done what you've done. And, truth be told, we all do somewhat similar things even to this day, despite what we know. But we have to understand what conclusions are supportable, and what aren't.
Ovation and DonoMan like this.
Graustark is offline  
post #3 of 8 Old 02-23-2019, 02:41 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bradford, Ontario
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Graustark View Post
Some here may be impressed, some won't. The ones who won't will base their lack of enthusiasm, rightly, on the fact that you did a sighted test of three sources. As a sighted test, your conclusions have no validity (not to sound too pedantic, sorry).



There are any number of problems. First, when you know what you are listening to, your biases toward equipment (brand name, type of device, etc.) will unconsciously affect your judgment about the sound. Second, unless you level-matched the devices (CD player, AVR) within at least .5 dB of each other, you aren't making any valid comparison. This must be done with a reasonably sensitive sound level meter. We know that if one source is perceptibly louder than another, people perceive the louder source as sounding "better". Third, you've really only tested two sources: the CD player and the AVR, because you are running two sources through the AVR's DAC. Fourth, you are controlling which source gets played when, so see 1 and 3, above. Fifth, it is extremely difficult to retain an accurate memory of sound in the time it takes to switch between two different sources. Differentiating among three? Almost impossible, unless at least one of the sources is broken or very poorly designed.


Look, we've all done what you've done. And, truth be told, we all do somewhat similar things even to this day, despite what we know. But we have to understand what conclusions are supportable, and what aren't.


I can take your comments as constructive criticism but I think I need to point a few things out. First off I did this little experiment as a spur of the moment thing on a Saturday morning while my wife was out shopping with our son. So this was not planned out. Just did this as a fun little experiment and not as a scientific calculated comparison.

I realize that to get a true unbiased comparison I would need to have a blind test. However as I pointed out I did this alone and obviously I can’t blind fold myself while doing this. Maybe one day I would get another party involved and do a blind test. Also I think I can tell the difference between sound quality with my ears unbiasedly while listening to music. I listen to the distinct sounds and individual instruments coming from the CD and not the volume in which it’s playing at. And not all were as prevalent in each player.

In the end, as I mentioned this was more for fun than anything else, and I decided to share my experience with doing this. This is a community forum for people to come together and share opinions, knowledge, experiences and asks questions. I belong to allot of forms on a number of different topics, and I don’t believe anyone’s posts or experiences that they wish to share regardless of how correct or incorrect they may be should be made to feel insignificant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
lightsout190 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 8 Old 02-23-2019, 03:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
smitty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 2,700
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 747 Post(s)
Liked: 986
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsout190 View Post
In the end, as I mentioned this was more for fun than anything else, and I decided to share my experience with doing this. This is a community forum for people to come together and share opinions, knowledge, experiences and asks questions. I belong to allot of forms on a number of different topics, and I don’t believe anyone’s posts or experiences that they wish to share regardless of how correct or incorrect they may be should be made to feel insignificant.
Good for you! You did something that was for fun, and you enjoyed the test, and you decided what sounded best to you. It's a hobby and if you enjoy the music and it makes you happy, that's what it's all about.

There are too many folks in the world who are know-it-alls and seem to take delight in sucking the joy out of everyone else's experience -- in this area and others as well.
smitty is offline  
post #5 of 8 Old 02-23-2019, 08:14 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 121
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by lightsout190 View Post
I can take your comments as constructive criticism but I think I need to point a few things out. First off I did this little experiment as a spur of the moment thing on a Saturday morning while my wife was out shopping with our son. So this was not planned out. Just did this as a fun little experiment and not as a scientific calculated comparison.

I realize that to get a true unbiased comparison I would need to have a blind test. However as I pointed out I did this alone and obviously I can’t blind fold myself while doing this. Maybe one day I would get another party involved and do a blind test. Also I think I can tell the difference between sound quality with my ears unbiasedly while listening to music. I listen to the distinct sounds and individual instruments coming from the CD and not the volume in which it’s playing at. And not all were as prevalent in each player.

In the end, as I mentioned this was more for fun than anything else, and I decided to share my experience with doing this. This is a community forum for people to come together and share opinions, knowledge, experiences and asks questions. I belong to allot of forms on a number of different topics, and I don’t believe anyone’s posts or experiences that they wish to share regardless of how correct or incorrect they may be should be made to feel insignificant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey, I didn't mean to imply you were representing this as a scientific test. I understand this was an informal sighted test. And, obviously, you are under no requirement to produce a scientifically valid test.


And we all have fun this way. My point is that, if you weren't aware of it (and I don't know if you are or not), what you did was not a valid test. It was for fun, I realize that, and more power to you. Basically, what I was warning you against, was the idea of posting it on YouTube. Not because there aren't all sorts of posts on YouTube, but because I think you might get massive pushback once it was posted.



But the important point was that your conclusion was invalid. And from your response, I don't think you understand what a valid double-blind test is.


So have at it. I wasn't trying to embarrass you. I was saying you invite huge criticism if you post it on YouTube and, more importantly, you can't have any faith in the conclusions you've reached so far.
Ovation and DonoMan like this.
Graustark is offline  
post #6 of 8 Old 02-24-2019, 06:45 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bradford, Ontario
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Ok fair enough


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
lightsout190 is offline  
post #7 of 8 Old 03-01-2019, 07:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Jack D Ripper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Burpelson Air Force Base
Posts: 1,445
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 542
Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty View Post
Good for you! You did something that was for fun, and you enjoyed the test, and you decided what sounded best to you. It's a hobby and if you enjoy the music and it makes you happy, that's what it's all about.

There are too many folks in the world who are know-it-alls and seem to take delight in sucking the joy out of everyone else's experience -- in this area and others as well.
They are not trying to suck the joy out of everything. They are (rightly) objecting to people making factual claims without proper evidence. If I told you I could run 100 mph and refused to be involved in any proper testing, what would you say? If you complained that what I said was BS, I could tell you that you are sucking the joy out of everything.

With audio, people routinely make claims of being able to do something that no human has ever properly demonstrated the ability to do. It should not be surprising when some other people point that out, just as people would point out the same idea regarding me running 100 mph.

Of course, when someone tries to do a test of something (which is commendable), then it is right and proper to discuss whether or not the test was adequate for what it was supposed to test. Suppose my friend tells you that he saw me run 100 mph, would that convince you? Would you complain to people who raised objections, pointing out the fact that just watching someone is not the same as actually measuring speed? Do you suck the joy out of other things? Or do you let people say unsupported things and encourage them to do so? Or in other words, do you have any regard for the truth, or do you like it when people make claims that are not properly supported?
Ovation and DonoMan like this.

God willing, we will prevail in peace and freedom from fear and in true health through the purity and essence of our natural fluids. God bless you all.
Jack D Ripper is offline  
post #8 of 8 Old 03-25-2019, 01:00 PM
Senior Member
 
Captain Crunch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Taylors SC
Posts: 283
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Very cool and interesting and thank you for taking the time to post your findings.
lightsout190 likes this.

SVS system 3X SCS-01s L-R & C, / 2X sbs-01s surrounds / 20-39pci sub.. AVR Pioneer - VSX-831
Captain Crunch is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply CD Players & Dedicated Music Transports

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off