Need help with cd ripping robot - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 03-14-2019, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Need help with cd ripping robot

OK, so few years back I read an article about a cd ripping robot for the DIY crowd. Approx a 1.000 - 1.500 $ expense to gather needed hardware. I have been saving my nickles and dimes and hopefully this summer the budget will be met.

The bad thing is I lost the article. I know there are various other articles out there, then one I read was so in depth both for the hardware, software and what needed to be coded that I must say I am sad not the find back to it.

So I will try to list the hardware from that article as soon as my mental hard drive's reading arm have found the right bin to look into. I am starting this project now, this the planning phase. I hope to be ready to start ripping in july or august 2019. Aiming for about 100 cd's a day. Mind you I will need to carry the cd's from the basement to my loft office every day when loading the ripper, and back down when finished. Then rinse and repeat.

The main goal is to rip 5-6.000 audio cd's into an open format. I am thinking waw or flac should be safe for future proofing? I will only do this major task once I hope. So now is the time to get the house in order and start figuring out what I need to automate the process of ripping cd's.

I will start with the ripping software first. What is the go to ripper tool these days? Waw or flac as output files.

1: I am after ripping software that will do CDDB lookup so to get the name of the band and the album name as well as the name of the songs. Some years back when I tried to manage this task manually I did use eac iirc. I am sure things has evolved and that there are newer or better tools available today?

2: I realize I might need some programming skills to make this process automated. And I think the program also will need to monitor the ripping software to make sure errors are not introduced after looking up cd in the database. Years back I've done some python programming. Small stuff only but I guess I can brush up, read up and start training. Will python be a usable choice for this project?

I will make this brief post the start of the project and if I get feedback and replies I will do my best to update and keep digging into the depth of automated robotic cd ripping.

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post #2 of 24 Old 03-19-2019, 05:27 AM
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My advice is to rip to FLAC
Nothing wrong with WAV but tagging support is a problem
http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/WAV_KB.htm

You might have a look here: https://www.dbpoweramp.com/batch-ripper.htm

dBpoweramp is an excellent ripper. It also get meta data from 4 different sources.
This one sets you back $600: http://www.acronova.com/solution/article/12/review.html

Success
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post #3 of 24 Old 03-19-2019, 05:37 AM
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Can't help with the robot, but I concur with the above, rip to flac using dbpoweramp. I also highly recommend using external hard drives to make additional copies for backup.
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post #4 of 24 Old 03-19-2019, 05:47 PM
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What about using the Bluesound Vault? It is the hard drive and automatic ripper in one box. It does cost $1200, however.
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post #5 of 24 Old 03-20-2019, 02:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry for my slow return, been tied down at work.

Vault bluesound afaik is a great tool for ripping a few cd's manually - like you open you cd covers and drop in the disc to the vault and the ripping starts. It's been a while since I last read about it, but iirc it handles both the ripping, DB lookup in regards to track names and disc name, album art and even tagging. What it does not is automatically load a new disc into the vault when one disc is completed. Totally fine if you only got a stack of a few hundreds discs. But this cd rip project is for turning 5K+ stack of discs into flac's. So a robot is the only way.



I am sure the vault is a nice unit, but I can't afford to spend most of my budget on the drive itself. Not when I for the same kind of cash can get all I need for the robot and most likely pretty close to all the hardware. I already got a handful of cd-rom drives. So i theory I could hook up 4 or even 5 drive to the pc to uppen the game and do the ripping av fast as possible.



But that also mean I must learn to control a robot, I must sketch up and build an robotic arm that can swivel around its own axis as well as pick up and drop down cd's into various drives from one or several spindles of music cd's. I think if might be able to have enough play time during spring break/easter to build the robot and do initial programming. That is almost a month away. If not I got a week and a half of work in middle of may. So that might also be a chance to get some alone time in the garage and in the loft office to do initial testing of robot arm.



Anyway thanks for the tip about the vault, I will try to stop by a shop nearby this weekend to have a look see at the vault, maybe I can get some inspiration or ideas from it at least. Or possible stretch my budget. Well realistically that will never happen my says here in the background.
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post #6 of 24 Old 03-20-2019, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roseval View Post
My advice is to rip to FLAC
Nothing wrong with WAV but tagging support is a problem
thewelltemperedcomputer_com/KB/WAV_KB.htm



You might have a look here: dbpoweramp_com/batch-ripper.htm

dBpoweramp is an excellent ripper. It also get meta data from 4 different sources.
This one sets you back $600: acronova_com/solution/article/12/review.html

Success

Thx Flac it is then. I like that it is open format too. Future proof :-)
But the best thing as you said is how flac handles the tagging. Correct tagging is essential for ease of use when creating playlists and looking for that rare release with that awesome single hit you have not played for ages.


I will look into that dbpoweramp. If it is quality and meet my needs I don't mind paying. Seems like a good place to start.

Hey arcanova nimbie is an all in one solution for batch ripping! Ready made and no need to reinvent the wheel or challenge my maker skills. Seems like pretty much a plug and play solution.






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Originally Posted by Jawaburger View Post
Can't help with the robot, but I concur with the above, rip to flac using dbpoweramp. I also highly recommend using external hard drives to make additional copies for backup.

Yeah for sure a dedicated backup. I got a fileserver locally, and will set up automated backup to that server. I am actually also thinking about possible do an external dump and drop that drive at my friends house just to be safe, this master task will only be done one time.

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post #7 of 24 Old 03-20-2019, 03:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking at the Nimbie USB autoloader it seems it has the capacity to load and manage 100 cd's in each batch. Which is just perfect for what I was planning. So far it does seems like this can do everything I was planning to solve with a robot arm. I guess the ripping can be done by the autoloader without the need for a robot, and the price seems rather good too.



If you look at the price tab the cd/dvd/BD is 760 $. I will do some more reading and research this weekend. If this turns out to be what it looks to me right now the Nimbie usb autoloader is a more or less turn key solution for ripping cd's. Pair it up with software from the list at their site and it seems that's all there is needed to automate the process of ripping cd's.



acronova_com/product/auto-blu-ray-duplicator-publisher-ripper-nimbie-usb-nb21/9/review_html (replace _[underscore] with .[dot]
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post #8 of 24 Old 03-20-2019, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Btw thx for pointing me to the Nimbie autoloader @Roseval . If this is all I need I might even be able to start ripping cd's during spring break. Then I can spend the summer trying to make a robot pour me beer or make me cold beverages. Maybe that kegerator actually need to happen along with a beer-tender robot?
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post #9 of 24 Old 03-20-2019, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Back in the days when I ripped cd's most of the cd roms where not great at high speed, error correction was well be honest not without faults and even the cpu could get bogged down if multipe drives where at work at the same time. I have not ripped cd's in years and I am not up to date with what is considered to be the go to settings for ripping cd's.



I mean I see the Nimbie supports 40 x write speeds for cd's, but what about ripping and settings for the ripping software? Is there a sweetspot or rule of thumb for how quickly a rip should take place in regards to savor the best possible sound quality from the cd? Reason for asking I am trying to grasp the time needed to rip 100 cd's. If possible maybe 2 batches a day could be done and that would make huge impact on the end of this project.
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post #10 of 24 Old 03-21-2019, 12:15 PM
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to savor the best possible sound quality from the cd?
The short story is that ripping is reading the bits.
Calculate a MD5 in the process and compare this with the Accuraterip database.
If this checksum is the same, the rip is without errors.
If not, dBpoweramp will warn you.

A longer story: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/Ripping.htm


Quote:
a robot pour me beer
That's a better project
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post #11 of 24 Old 03-21-2019, 12:51 PM
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PS: 5 minutes per CD I do think a fair estimate
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post #12 of 24 Old 03-21-2019, 02:46 PM
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I would use dBpoweramp, rip to FLAC and manually do them one at a time. You can then check the results for song titles, artist, album art and whatever metadata you are interested in and edit as needed. If it takes 3-5 minutes per CD it is not time wasted because you can do other things while the rip is progressing. Once you get the rhythm you will be done before you know it.

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post #13 of 24 Old 03-22-2019, 05:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zeuspaul View Post
I would use dBpoweramp, rip to FLAC and manually do them one at a time. You can then check the results for song titles, artist, album art and whatever metadata you are interested in and edit as needed. If it takes 3-5 minutes per CD it is not time wasted because you can do other things while the rip is progressing. Once you get the rhythm you will be done before you know it.

Lets look at the math first. If we are moderate and say average rip speed is 4 minute per cd, what can I manage in an hour, 15 cd's. Then I will have to spend time messing with covers in between and loading the cd into the drive. So at best 15 cd's in an hour. Even if I put in 8 hours a day ripping cd's I will only be able to do 120 cd's a day. If I could manage to keep that up 5 days a week that will still only be 600 cd's per week. Worst case I will spend 10 weeks manually ripping cd's, chained to the chair in front of the pc for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I am not so sure I will still have a family left when completing the ripping project, if I dedicate that much time to ripping over such a long time span.



A better way will be to either tap into dbpoweramp to harvest any and all error messages and manually look up any batches that produce errors then manually redo that disc only. That way I could load up the spindle with 100 audio cd's before work and just check the logs before collecting the now ripped cd's, putting them back into their covers and carry them down to the basement. Maybe half an hour grunt work setting things up in the morning and the same in the evening. I think 1 hour of tedious labor is plenty for me.



I think for the price of Nimbie it is a no brainer. Let the process of ripping be automated, hopefully most of the ripping will be completed without errors and the few errors that will occur I can manage manually. When I looked at the Nimbie website it seems that the Nimbie USB Plus Disc Autoloader is all hardware I need to buy to do an automated ripping. The leaves me the manual labor of loading and unloading the spindles each day, and correct any errors that occur'd during the batch.
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post #14 of 24 Old 03-22-2019, 05:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roseval View Post
The short story is that ripping is reading the bits.
Calculate a MD5 in the process and compare this with the Accuraterip database.
If this checksum is the same, the rip is without errors.
If not, dBpoweramp will warn you.

A longer story: http://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/Ripping.htm



That's a better project

Hello beermate, pour me a fresh one! Hehe yes indeed. We must watch out for putting our brains to work on wrong projects, no need to create a robot for cd ripping when there are ready made solutions for that.



But a robot that can handle the tap and distinguish between lager, ales, G/T and whisky sour will surly be put to good use. I don't brew much anymore, but I still have them large kettles and if I finally make a keggerator maybe I can find back to the brew spirit. That bottling process is just too much of pain to keep repeating over and over.



Not to mention, it will be a darn good time brewing, enjoying those flac files on the stereo while sampling previous brews.
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post #15 of 24 Old 03-22-2019, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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So this little thing got an internal cd/dvd/BD rom/burner and audio cd's is dropped on the top, auto loads into the drive and when rip is completed drop out on the bottom. It even got usb 3 connection. How sweet is that.



And to think I was gonna go that robot route. So 2009. That would be like making your own lawn mover robot or vacuum robot. It is already perfect more or less so no need for old timers like me to dive into such rabbit holes.



Look at this beauty. I think we will be best friends.






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post #16 of 24 Old 03-22-2019, 06:14 AM
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Man I ripped about 2500 CDs 5-6 years ago. I did it all with EAC (for better reading support) direct to flac, then and popped covers in with mp3tag and used foobar to create a replay gain profile. Once it was done, I bought a second drive and cloned it so HDD failure wouldn't result in having to do it all again. It was largely a manual process although you don't have to 100% babysit it. You can pop in a cd and go do something and come back 15 mins later and swap disks, process and move on. I love DB Poweramp, I use it for batch conversions. But I would want to rip with EAC somehow to make sure you get the secure read from the disk.

Good luck on your project.

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post #17 of 24 Old 03-22-2019, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markmon1 View Post
Man I ripped about 2500 CDs 5-6 years ago. I did it all with EAC (for better reading support) direct to flac, then and popped covers in with mp3tag and used foobar to create a replay gain profile. Once it was done, I bought a second drive and cloned it so HDD failure wouldn't result in having to do it all again. It was largely a manual process although you don't have to 100% babysit it. You can pop in a cd and go do something and come back 15 mins later and swap disks, process and move on. I love DB Poweramp, I use it for batch conversions. But I would want to rip with EAC somehow to make sure you get the secure read from the disk.

Good luck on your project.

I salute your dedication, well done making it all the way to the end with such a large manual project. That's about 5 weeks of full 8 hours days of ripping. Well done.


I didn't think about the fact that the cd's might have different sound level, if that is what you cured with foobar. Are we talking big variations between different cd's, like large enough so that you will jump in your seat if your next song on the playlist is ripped from a cd with higher gain output? Tbh I thought most of today's players had a setting for getting about the same gain level on each song. Is this something I should consider? I mean if I could make a script that could do it for me that would work, but manually I don't think I could dedicate enough time to complete such a task.
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post #18 of 24 Old 03-22-2019, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by downslope View Post
I salute your dedication, well done making it all the way to the end with such a large manual project. That's about 5 weeks of full 8 hours days of ripping. Well done.


I didn't think about the fact that the cd's might have different sound level, if that is what you cured with foobar. Are we talking big variations between different cd's, like large enough so that you will jump in your seat if your next song on the playlist is ripped from a cd with higher gain output? Tbh I thought most of today's players had a setting for getting about the same gain level on each song. Is this something I should consider? I mean if I could make a script that could do it for me that would work, but manually I don't think I could dedicate enough time to complete such a task.
Unfortunately, yes. There can be 10-15db difference in volume from one cd to another. Replay gain solves this by scanning the files as a single album, then stores the replay gain value in the file tags. So any player that supports replay gain (probably all of them by now) will have relatively close playback volume album per album. Scanning the albums for replay gain in foobar is very fast. You could rip 10 cds and scan the replay gain for all of them in about 20 seconds. I'd say this is by far the least of your worries.
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post #19 of 24 Old 03-22-2019, 09:49 AM
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Are you using the secure setting in dbPoweramp? It also reports a secure rip. It checks against a database and if their is a difference it reports inaccurate. If not in the database which is rare it does multiple reads. Also dbPoweramp is much faster. https://dbpoweramp.com/images/dmc/fastest.gif


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Man I ripped about 2500 CDs 5-6 years ago. I did it all with EAC (for better reading support) direct to flac, then and popped covers in with mp3tag and used foobar to create a replay gain profile. Once it was done, I bought a second drive and cloned it so HDD failure wouldn't result in having to do it all again. It was largely a manual process although you don't have to 100% babysit it. You can pop in a cd and go do something and come back 15 mins later and swap disks, process and move on. I love DB Poweramp, I use it for batch conversions. But I would want to rip with EAC somehow to make sure you get the secure read from the disk.

Good luck on your project.
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The math was a little different for me in my 500 CD ripping project. I already spend about an hour a day on my computer. During the project I still spent about the same amount of time so the net increase in computer time was about zero. Most of that hour was spent reading AVS and other sites while the CDs were ripping. The small amount of time loading the CDs didn't increase my computer time as I would spend a little less time reading posts. I don't disagree with your math, just that it doesn't take into consideration multitasking.


If I had 5000 CDs I would have had a different perspective. The autoloader looks like a good option. I would worry about reliability. I have no idea about the quality of autoloaders. I know I would not feel comfortable feeding 5000 CDs into my CD/Blu-ray drive.


Best of luck.


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Lets look at the math first. If we are moderate and say average rip speed is 4 minute per cd, what can I manage in an hour, 15 cd's. Then I will have to spend time messing with covers in between and loading the cd into the drive. So at best 15 cd's in an hour. Even if I put in 8 hours a day ripping cd's I will only be able to do 120 cd's a day. If I could manage to keep that up 5 days a week that will still only be 600 cd's per week. Worst case I will spend 10 weeks manually ripping cd's, chained to the chair in front of the pc for 8 hours a day 5 days a week. I am not so sure I will still have a family left when completing the ripping project, if I dedicate that much time to ripping over such a long time span.



A better way will be to either tap into dbpoweramp to harvest any and all error messages and manually look up any batches that produce errors then manually redo that disc only. That way I could load up the spindle with 100 audio cd's before work and just check the logs before collecting the now ripped cd's, putting them back into their covers and carry them down to the basement. Maybe half an hour grunt work setting things up in the morning and the same in the evening. I think 1 hour of tedious labor is plenty for me.



I think for the price of Nimbie it is a no brainer. Let the process of ripping be automated, hopefully most of the ripping will be completed without errors and the few errors that will occur I can manage manually. When I looked at the Nimbie website it seems that the Nimbie USB Plus Disc Autoloader is all hardware I need to buy to do an automated ripping. The leaves me the manual labor of loading and unloading the spindles each day, and correct any errors that occur'd during the batch.

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post #21 of 24 Old 03-22-2019, 02:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Unfortunately, yes. There can be 10-15db difference in volume from one cd to another. Replay gain solves this by scanning the files as a single album, then stores the replay gain value in the file tags. So any player that supports replay gain (probably all of them by now) will have relatively close playback volume album per album. Scanning the albums for replay gain in foobar is very fast. You could rip 10 cds and scan the replay gain for all of them in about 20 seconds. I'd say this is by far the least of your worries.

Well 10-15 db sudden gain that will most likely make you jump sky high in the sofa or wake up the rest of the house if played on the stereo late at night. So regain will be needed.



I think this must be a task for a creative bash script in linux. First focus on the ripping and then run a bash script to do the regain for all music at once.
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post #22 of 24 Old 03-24-2019, 09:59 PM
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I was reading a thread about the hk-dmc 1000 hard drive music server. It rips
The CD to a built in hard drive in about 4 minutes.

Anyway, One gentleman who had a pretty large CD collection tasked one of
His kids to rip the CD's for $$$ per CD. He said his child was pretty motivated
And commented that it beat the heck out of mowing the yard for a few $$$.

I thought that was a pretty clever idea... ;-)

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post #23 of 24 Old 03-25-2019, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by downslope View Post
I think this must be a task for a creative bash script in linux. First focus on the ripping and then run a bash script to do the regain for all music at once.
dBpoweramp will do so on the fly

https://www.dbpoweramp.com/help/Code...htm#ReplayGain
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post #24 of 24 Old 03-27-2019, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Great even ReGain can be handled by dbpoweramp, I like alot. Even one less thing to focus at. Is there anything dbpoweramp does not do? Does is cook and clean too? and if so can I marry it?


What does people think of dbpoweramp vs say EAC (exact audio copy)? I remember back in the days EAC was the go to solution for ripping due to their fault and error corrections and anti-jitter. But it was a slow process iirc

Last edited by downslope; 03-27-2019 at 10:59 PM.
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