Any 21’s on the horizon with XBL^X? - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 171 Old 07-14-2008, 04:01 PM
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The Peavey Neo BWX uses a split coil.... I have pictures of a cut away in a magazine somewhere.

Ask your doctor if DIY is right for you. Side effects of DIY may include anxiety, elevated blood pressure, lightheadedness, rapid heartbeat, skeletal muscle flaccidity, euphoria, psychological dependence, insomnia, confusion, blurred vision, implusivity, uncontrolled or repeated movements.
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post #152 of 171 Old 07-14-2008, 09:07 PM
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Noah,

Of course displacement, velocity, and acceleration are all related... But what you'll find is that acousticians, Thiele, Small, Benson, and many others consider acceleration as the fundamental source for SPL.

Ilkka,

Sorry, NDAs in place... Perhaps we can talk off-line and I can get you something similar elsewhere. I would suggest the reason you haven't seen a lot of high BL XBL drivers is because in general high BL is counter-productive for subwoofer usage in homes.

Better yet, drop a line about what you'd like to see for a project, and we can go from there.
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post #153 of 171 Old 07-14-2008, 10:05 PM
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I love the way this thread has turned out, please keep the discussion of the finer points public. Finally something interesting on AVS again


Did I kill it?
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post #154 of 171 Old 08-31-2008, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanWiggins View Post

Bosso,

As far as the pole vent diameter, it's big enough to not chuff under normal operation, and I think you'll find it quiet in any operation. We optimize pole vent diameters with fluid dynamics to keep noise at least 40 dB below the acoustic output of the driver.

I gave up 4 possibly perfectly fine drivers because I did not know this at the time. My first tests of the driver were free-air, and seemed to severely suffer from tinsel-slap or rocking. The problem was greatly reduced in-box, but still present. To this day, IDK if it was simply chuffing
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post #155 of 171 Old 10-16-2008, 01:59 AM
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Still no news from sicko-21? When all the negative economy and financial news floating around, I really hope this project won't be affected by it.
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post #156 of 171 Old 10-16-2008, 05:33 AM
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See this.

Quote:


Sicko 21": This may not die on the vine but it is definitely on hold. The quotes I'm getting for production are much higher than our target price. I'd have to retail it for $3K to make the project viable and I don't think there would be enough interest at that price point. We are still working this though and I'm hopeful we can redesign a couple parts, and work over our vendors a little to get the price back down in line.

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post #157 of 171 Old 10-16-2008, 07:31 AM
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I knew this driver would be a $2000-3000 deal, people who think low cost all custom driver are smoking weed. You want huge displacement and all around great design,you will pay and pay alot.

Me I do not mind $3000 per driver as long as it produces the results when asked to, 50mm one way linear(80% or better) Xmax is A ok.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #158 of 171 Old 10-16-2008, 03:57 PM
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The real issue with a $3K price tag is being able to sell enough of them to recoup the tooling costs. Even at $1K probably a lot of them wouldn't be sold, but at $3K it would be significantly less. Whether they are worth $3K is a completely separate issue from whether you can sell them at $3K.
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post #159 of 171 Old 10-16-2008, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffstgermaine View Post

The real issue with a $3K price tag is being able to sell enough of them to recoup the tooling costs. Even at $1K probably a lot of them wouldn't be sold, but at $3K it would be significantly less. Whether they are worth $3K is a completely separate issue from whether you can sell them at $3K.

There aren't very many 21's out there so I am sure finding (and making) the hardware for such a beast must be a daunting task for anyone. Even a big name company would have to pull some serious resources to put out a steady stream of 21 inch baskets. That's not even considering any of the software to make the thing run. Wasn't there talk of the VC being 6 inches like the Acoupower? The raw materials alone...

A nice, high excursion (and home theater friendly) 21 inch woofer probably won't be around for another year or two. At least, that is what I predict.
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post #160 of 171 Old 10-16-2008, 06:52 PM
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At $3k you're approaching Jackhammer range. If anyone has modeled it in Winisd, you know it's a good sub, but you can get a lot more for less. I think at the $500-$1000 mark you're reaching the edge of the law of diminishing returns.
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post #161 of 171 Old 10-16-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by brandonnash View Post

I think at the $500-$1000 mark you're reaching the edge of the law of diminishing returns.

I sooooo agree with this statement. I am sure many others here also agree. Four cheaper subs will more than able outperform a single "high end" subwoofer. That's why I'd rather have two to four RLp18's/Maelstrom-X's over a single TC5400 (even if I could get my hands on one). Sure it tested well and it is an overall unbeatable driver. But just one? Nah.

Although. Most of are crazy around here.

I personally think we all would rather have four LMS 5400's over four RLp18's but that would cost us an arm and a leg...and our 401k too.
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post #162 of 171 Old 10-16-2008, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matt5112 View Post

See this.

I was really hoping that I don't have to read anything like that, ever.
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post #163 of 171 Old 10-17-2008, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

I sooooo agree with this statement. I am sure many others here also agree. Four cheaper subs will more than able outperform a single "high end" subwoofer. That's why I'd rather have two to four RLp18's/Maelstrom-X's over a single TC5400 (even if I could get my hands on one). Sure it tested well and it is an overall unbeatable driver. But just one? Nah.

Although. Most of are crazy around here.

I personally think we all would rather have four LMS 5400's over four RLp18's but that would cost us an arm and a leg...and our 401k too.


The only reason I can think that one might want something with a cost like that is if you have a specific application that called for one single driver enclosure. An application that wouldn't allow multiple drivers. Can't see any other reason for one.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to be able to afford something like that. If I could, I probably would, but I can't so I won't. I like the idea of something like this. Someone should break ground and get into this so it may become attainable later on.
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post #164 of 171 Old 10-17-2008, 01:02 PM
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material costs are going up every month, and its hard for smaller companies to get good prices. Larger companies literally get a 4 to 5 time price reduction on tooling simply because volume is so high. Obviously there is not much cookie cutter stuff available for > 18" subwoofers so its a very challenging feat for a small company to get one out without perhaps some serious up-front capital. even proper drivers made overseas are very expensive now, at least twice what they were a few years ago.
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post #165 of 171 Old 10-18-2008, 10:17 AM
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I'm still working this. It isn't at the top of my priority list simply because I don't expect to sell a lot of them and I have limited resources. My money bag for doing projects is not infinitely deep so I have to pick & choose what is most likely to show fruit. If I can get the things made within our original budget I'll do it. If not, I'm not going to pull the trigger if the product has to be $3K retail. We wouldn't sell enough of them for it to make sense.

In terms of rational people buying them. I can tell you right now, whether it is $1K or $3K you will always be able to get more output/$ by purchasing multiple smaller drivers. Why? Well, there is an economy of scale. The tooling & parts that go into a standard 18" driver are already paid for. The materials are not custom, the design is not unique. The Sicko will be for people who want the best and can afford to pay for it. It will be for 5% of the buying public, not for your average guy building a home theater. If you are spending $100,000 building a home theater though, what difference does it make if you spend an extra $1K on your subwoofer? For the people with a big budget, saving a couple hundred dollars is not that big a deal.

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post #166 of 171 Old 10-18-2008, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

and our 401k too.

Might as well just throw it in for free with how stocks are performing right now

YID DIY
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post #167 of 171 Old 12-16-2008, 07:20 AM - Thread Starter
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An enthusiastic bump to continue sharing our interest in the exotic...

Larry
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post #168 of 171 Old 12-16-2008, 09:33 AM
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The latest 'buzz' on 21 inch subwoofers has been the FiCar's IB21. I've seen it brought up here and over at HTS.
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post #169 of 171 Old 12-16-2008, 12:08 PM
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With the current economy it might be a tad cheaper to produce such a product now.
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post #170 of 171 Old 05-11-2009, 02:26 AM
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Bump for interesting discussions on pages 4-5 on motor topologies.

Ask your doctor if DIY is right for you. Side effects of DIY may include anxiety, elevated blood pressure, lightheadedness, rapid heartbeat, skeletal muscle flaccidity, euphoria, psychological dependence, insomnia, confusion, blurred vision, implusivity, uncontrolled or repeated movements.
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post #171 of 171 Old 05-11-2009, 03:16 PM
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There will be talk of another 21" soon enough

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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