Mid-bass module advice - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 15 Old 12-28-2008, 03:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I've decided to order a 15" rythmik kit for my basement theater and was considering building a MBM.

I have a barely used 10" adire brahma mkI and 12" shiva mkII lying around and a Dayton 500w plate amp for power. I'm assuming that the brahma would be the better choice here, but I'm kind of lost on what size enclosure I should build for this. Does anyone have a suggestion here? Any thoughts if the 10" brahma as a MBM will play nice with the rythmik?

Thanks in advance!
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post #2 of 15 Old 12-28-2008, 04:05 PM
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Before you dig for midbass, what are you using for main LCR ?

I had the same concerns, then I lowered the XO point so my dual 8" drivers could do their job and presto !!

Kg

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post #3 of 15 Old 12-28-2008, 05:50 PM
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Would it make sense to choose a driver that had a higher Fs if you were selecting a new midbass driver? Just a question semi related to the OP.

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Originally Posted by vasyachkin
Even i, the genius, only vaguely understand what i am saying here.
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-28-2008, 06:59 PM
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Thats all well and good, but an answer may just be in the XO point if his mains are capable. We're so eager to build and add when a simple shift in XO point may give him the mid bass he's looking for.

I guess I'll wait to see what his mains are.

Kg

FYI... I went from 100hz to 90hz and now I'm at 80hz. My subs stink at reproducing 100hz, but below 80hz or even 60hz they kill. Keep turning over stones...all of them.

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post #5 of 15 Old 12-28-2008, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Before you dig for midbass, what are you using for main LCR ?
Kg


I'm using Ascend 340SE's for LCR, and HTM-200's for surrounds.

I actually bought a velodyne dls-5000r just to see if a single 15 would have enough output for my basement (around 4500 cubic feet), and I found it to be adequate..actually even too loud in some cases. Sounds like crap though in my opinion..too damn boomy! I stuffed some towels in the slot port and I liked it a lot better, although still not worth the money.
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post #6 of 15 Old 12-28-2008, 07:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommygee View Post

I'm using Ascend 340SE's for LCR, and HTM-200's for surrounds.

I actually bought a velodyne dls-5000r just to see if a single 15 would have enough output for my basement (around 4500 cubic feet), and I found it to be adequate..actually even too loud in some cases. Sounds like crap though in my opinion..too damn boomy! I stuffed some towels in the slot port and I liked it a lot better, although still not worth the money.

Well those dual 6.5 aren't going to give you the midbass you crave.Why push them and ruin the great dual mid range they can dish out.

Onward and upward. I'm new to the midbass replacement.Will this be for the LCR. I know BagEnd specifically has three inputs for this reason alone.

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post #7 of 15 Old 12-29-2008, 11:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran View Post

Well those dual 6.5 aren't going to give you the midbass you crave.Why push them and ruin the great dual mid range they can dish out.

Onward and upward. I'm new to the midbass replacement.Will this be for the LCR. I know BagEnd specifically has three inputs for this reason alone.


I was planning on placing it right by my seats, if thats what you meant.
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post #8 of 15 Old 12-30-2008, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommygee View Post

I've decided to order a 15" rythmik kit for my basement theater and was considering building a MBM.

I have a barely used 10" adire brahma mkI and 12" shiva mkII lying around and a Dayton 500w plate amp for power. I'm assuming that the brahma would be the better choice here, but I'm kind of lost on what size enclosure I should build for this. Does anyone have a suggestion here? Any thoughts if the 10" brahma as a MBM will play nice with the rythmik?

Thanks in advance!

HSU MBM-12 is the answer if you want mid-bass in the 50 hz up range. I have two of them and they do the job. At one time I had them high passed with the mains and they put out, but now with SDA's for mains they are back with the HSU 3.3's splitting the LFE bass.

Bill
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post #9 of 15 Old 12-30-2008, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHD21 View Post

Would it make sense to choose a driver that had a higher Fs if you were selecting a new midbass driver? Just a question semi related to the OP.

Anybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasyachkin
Even i, the genius, only vaguely understand what i am saying here.
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post #10 of 15 Old 12-30-2008, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHD21 View Post

Anybody?

Yes and no. fs is a number which is directly related to the weight of the moving mass (mms), the stiffness of the soft parts (Qms and Cms)...and probably other things. Maybe a transducer engineer can come in and give a more detailed explaination.

Anyway, there's a lot to consider, but generally speaking a higher fs will mean a lighter cone and also increased sensitivity...all good points. However, just because a speaker has a higher fs, does not mean it will be a good midbass. Le is an important metric to consider, and the lower the better.

That being said, of the two drivers - Brahma MkI and Shiva MkII - whichever has the lowest Le is the one I'd try first as a midbass. Reason being, the Tumult MkI vs. Tumult MkII have similar fs's, yet the MkII does a much better job at midbass duties due to it's lower Le.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

HSU MBM-12 is the answer if you want mid-bass in the 50 hz up range. I have two of them and they do the job. At one time I had them high passed with the mains and they put out, but now with SDA's for mains they are back with the HSU 3.3's splitting the LFE bass.

Bill

Boo, this is DIY. What we'll do here is copy that idea, then modify to make it better for our needs.

YID DIY
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post #11 of 15 Old 12-30-2008, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 View Post

HSU MBM-12 is the answer if you want mid-bass in the 50 hz up range. I have two of them and they do the job. At one time I had them high passed with the mains and they put out, but now with SDA's for mains they are back with the HSU 3.3's splitting the LFE bass.

Bill

You can do better for cheaper DIYing it. Hell even just a random pro audio 15" bass bin would probably be much cheaper and more capable.
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post #12 of 15 Old 12-30-2008, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LHD21 View Post

Would it make sense to choose a driver that had a higher Fs if you were selecting a new midbass driver? Just a question semi related to the OP.

Higher Fs is really only part of, or a somewhat likely coincidence of a driver which might suit the application. What works best will depend on your box size limitations, budget, and available power. While it's possible to hack together a working solution by other means, I'd recommend a multi-channel DSP EQ like the DCX2496 (less than $300 new) which offers HP, LP, EQ & delay adjustments.

Stay away from very high inductance drivers and keep your focus on the 40-120Hz range and plan for enough capability where you won't run the system past Xmax under any expected listening situation.

There are plenty of drivers in the $70-300 range which will do nicely given appropriate expectations and attention to detail in construction and setup.

As I've hashed out many times before... I strongly recommend measuring a test woofer in the potential locations prior to building. A subwoofer designed to fit in a more efficient location will almost always trump a bigger woofer in an inefficient location.

Mark Seaton
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post #13 of 15 Old 12-30-2008, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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So it sounds like I should try the shiva first. Would a higher Q be better for MBM? I plan on running the rythmik at the high dampening setting, if it makes a difference.
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post #14 of 15 Old 12-31-2008, 11:13 AM
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The high setting is just going to give you the most extension with the flattest response. Judging by the fact that you seem to prefer a lot of kick, you'll probably prefer 14hz/Low as it gives you a +3db boost in the 30hz region or somewhere above, if I remember correctly.
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-04-2009, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommygee View Post

I've decided to order a 15" rythmik kit for my basement theater and was considering building a MBM.

I have a barely used 10" adire brahma mkI and 12" shiva mkII lying around and a Dayton 500w plate amp for power. I'm assuming that the brahma would be the better choice here, but I'm kind of lost on what size enclosure I should build for this. Does anyone have a suggestion here? Any thoughts if the 10" brahma as a MBM will play nice with the rythmik?

Thanks in advance!

this is so sad. another member with no mid bass.

read about the hsu mbm and the subwoofer myths by audiopulse and you will have some idea of what you need and it's not a rythmik kit or a shiva.

take a look at jblpro.com for additional clues for driver selection and box tuning in order to achieve chest compressing mid bass.

Listen. It's All Good.
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