The Quasar Array (8) LMS 5400 in (4) Dual Opposed Sealed Cabinets - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 440 Old 10-05-2009, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

I think it add's a nice look, but there are certainly ways as Bosso has come to show us... decorative trim rings can definately be an option, which Mike Hurd had mentioned as well, that just may be the way I think I may go...

Were can more info be found on decorative trim rings? Is it in Bosso's raven thread?
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post #32 of 440 Old 10-05-2009, 08:02 PM
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yes, I believe Bosso strictly uses trim rings and doesn't use the rubber gaskets at all...

I never thought about not using them, but I really don't have a problem not using it. I could even just paint the screws black to match so they don't stand out, but its just not classy enough for me... I'd rather have some sexy brushed stainless water jet cut to fit myself... at least something to have in the back of ones mind for a finish... nothing like a sexy finish - but seriously who could compete with B osso's over the top sexyness sub builds... that my friend is dedication
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post #33 of 440 Old 10-05-2009, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Do you guys have some examples of nice trim rings?

I am using the Black Quartz stone as laminate, so it is quite possible I could use that for a trim ring as well. But from what I used to do, or at least remember, is to use the gasket tape sold at Madisound or Parts express... So what is the big deal about using weather stripping or gasket tape for the sealing, and also use a decorative trim ring?
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post #34 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Here is a picture of one set of the Black Hole Subs, there is a stacked pair in each corner... I took a bunch more of each, including the rear of them, but I'm tired... I need to adjust the lighting in photshop as well...

I'm most likely going to be moving in mid november, so I will be looking to sell them for best offer soon. I think I'll put them on Audiogon or such and take best offer. I need to make room for the new subs.
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post #35 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 06:49 AM
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Screw the subs...Nice Halberd!
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post #36 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 09:11 AM
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Health Nut seems to have concerns that 7000w @ 2ohms for each box will not be enough... spreading that power over the 2 drivers will still be quite an impressive amount of output... X 4 boxes...

Anyone else here want to assure him that will be plenty of power here...

Just make sure you have enough voltage running to those amps and you have nothing to worry about IMO... theres going to be a huge load to feed
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post #37 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 10:28 AM
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It will be fine. With that many drivers the goal is to operate them at <30% anyway. Besides once you get up into that kind of power per driver it's unrealistic to expect any of them to handle it other than for very short bursts on dynamic parts. If you are pushing amps that big into light clipping, for extended periods of time, with heavily compressed modern music, eventually you are going to start burning coils.
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post #38 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 10:56 AM
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"Anyone else here want to assure him that will be plenty of power here... "

I wouldn't be so sure, if he actually tries to hit his stated SPL target at 5 Hz.

Noah
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post #39 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 11:20 AM
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3500w per driver is more than enough to get into dangerous excursion territory below 20hz IMHO. His enclosures will be on the large side for LMS drivers. If he needs more output after 8 drivers and that much power then he needs even more drivers...
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post #40 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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I meant to put a decorative trim ring on the Black Hole Subs, but never got around to it.

So you like the Italian Bill? I'm sure a lot of other stuff like that will show up in some pictures I will post later...

As far as amps, I'm going to start focusing on that in Mid to end of November, or once I have a clear cut way I want to power them. I have a lot on my plate thru mid-November...

By the way, one thought could be to use 8 amps bridged mono into 4 ohms per each driver...

Would like to discuss trim rings more... that is more an issue at hand...
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post #41 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 11:31 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci View Post

3500w per driver is more than enough to get into dangerous excursion territory below 20hz IMHO. His enclosures will be on the large side for LMS drivers. If he needs more output after 8 drivers and that much power then he needs even more drivers...

Oh, you mean when I add 36dB of boost on a BASSIS?
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post #42 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 02:56 PM
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"3500w per driver is more than enough to get into dangerous excursion territory below 20hz IMHO."

That reminds me - at very LF excursion levels out, at least w/constant voltage input.

For amps, how about the Marathon MA-5050 - 1200/1900/2500 W/ch at 8/4/2 ohms.

bossobass is using one in his Raven project

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000V0HVE2/...SIN=B000V0HVE2

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post #43 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv View Post

yes, I believe Bosso strictly uses trim rings and doesn't use the rubber gaskets at all...

I never thought about not using them, but I really don't have a problem not using it. I could even just paint the screws black to match so they don't stand out, but its just not classy enough for me... I'd rather have some sexy brushed stainless water jet cut to fit myself... at least something to have in the back of ones mind for a finish... nothing like a sexy finish - but seriously who could compete with B osso's over the top sexyness sub builds... that my friend is dedication

Thanks Warp,

When using the rubber gaskets, a deeper recess is required for a flush installation. When you remove the gasket, the driver recess is much less, which gives more of the baffle to screw the driver into.

The closed cell foam gasket, when applied correctly, gives an airtight seal every time. The factory rubber gasket leaks more often that not, I just think most people don't check it critically for leaks and assume it seals properly.

Besides... a grill ring gives a much better finished look than rubber with holes in it.

I've used mic-6 aluminum because I have access to them at a very good price, but I've also used 1/2" thick MDF with a 3/8" round over (like the latest bamboo subs have). Grill rings can be made from many materials.

Here's a quick diagram, FWIW:



Bosso
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post #44 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 04:50 PM
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The Marathon is about 75 bucks cheaper compaired to Amazon at the link below if interested.

James

http://www.compuplus.com/i-MARATHON-...k=searchViewed
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post #45 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 06:09 PM
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any chance you can pop open the amp and snap a couple pics bosso?

it would be interesting to know what the internals are. the transformers and secondary capacitance are "components of interest", lol.

the big marathon appears to be a real sleeper.

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post #46 of 440 Old 10-06-2009, 06:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

any chance you can pop open the amp and snap a couple pics bosso?

it would be interesting to know what the internals are. the transformers and secondary capacitance are "components of interest", lol.

the big marathon appears to be a real sleeper.

Post 34 has some internal pictures.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...arathon&page=2
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post #47 of 440 Old 10-07-2009, 01:06 AM
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The gasket is 0.7" tall and it almost always seals without issues. Issues will occur if you're trying to seal on a surface that's not flat. For example, boxes with a texture finish. The custom TC screws are also designed to work with the gaskets because they match the height of the gasket and sit flush at the 0.7" mark. If you omit the gasket then the screws will stick up quite a bit or you can use different screws. One design consideration is that the screws are bright silver, not black so if you don't like that look you might want to consider buying some stock screws that are black.

not the best pictures, but its what i had ready




LL
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post #48 of 440 Old 10-07-2009, 04:29 AM
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As Bosso pointed out above, I also found that my Mel-X +2PR 18 Subs leaked and my 64mm (2 1/2") thick Baffel's were dead flat perfectly clean inc the Mel-X & PR18 OEM rubber Gaskets, I used 10mm OD Flat Washers, 5mm OD X 2"long Hex head bolts and 6mm Tnuts Apoxyed in place for mounting the 18" Drivers & 18" Passives,
the baffel holes were drilled using A bench Drill so were dead straight ....

I ended up using closed cell foam for an air tight seal...

Cheers....
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post #49 of 440 Old 10-07-2009, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

Post 34 has some internal pictures.

https://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...arathon&page=2

thanks exojam. that thing appears to be for real. wow.

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post #50 of 440 Old 10-07-2009, 07:42 AM
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It does look nice and will hopefully be my next purchase.

James
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post #51 of 440 Old 10-07-2009, 10:45 PM - Thread Starter
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I think Trim rings are the proper way to finish off a sub... just need to think of the best way to do it, and what material to use... I wonder if there is a way to have a removable trim ring that doesn't have to utilize the driver screws....

As I mentioned before, I'm using the Absolute Noir Caesar Stone in a special order thickness of 1/2" http://www.caesarstoneus.com/catalog...m?productId=65 I think it would be cost prohibitive to make trim rings using the Ceaser stone, just based on the labor, but maybe not... 8 trim rings might be a little pricey. Anodized aluminum? Hmmm... and how to atach it...?

I have to say I've always used that gasket tape (closed call foam tape) on all my past subwoofers as well... I guess rubber just isn't as good?
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post #52 of 440 Old 10-08-2009, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Any reason you couldn't use the rubber gasket and a layer of closed foam cell tape?
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post #53 of 440 Old 10-08-2009, 05:52 PM
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There is no reason you can't.... I have used it on all my drivers... works great and never had an issue with leaking... Remember that my point was that you had set out your measurements, and I had suggested that you add a bit more depth to your driver mount... so the driver + foam + rubber gasket is flush...

Kyle had commented on the gasket depth being .7, which was your mounting depth, now if you add closed cell foam, you are adding more to that .7... now the rubber gasket will stick out a bit from the front a touch...

Please note, It seems like you are looking for a top end look, and I was just posting my personal experience so you didn't have to just wing it and find out the hard way... just don't make your holes too small in diameter and you won't have a problem, and make your depth between .7 and 1.0 and you should have a very nice flush mounting... I would rather have the rubber gasket recessed a bit then sticking out, but thats just me...

I found this stuff works great and is cheap, and it squishes down quite a bit, but still adds to the depth - hence my suggested added depth to mount.
http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardw...atalogId=10053
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post #54 of 440 Old 10-08-2009, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

Any reason you couldn't use the rubber gasket and a layer of closed foam cell tape?

That is exactly what I did with my Mal-x subs, work's fine for me...

Cheers...
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post #55 of 440 Old 10-09-2009, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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I agree it is better to 'oversink' the driver, than the opposite, especially if you are going to mount a trim ring. The good part is that the Quartz stone material will have the driver cuttout holes polished, so it would probaly look nice, or at least fine, if the hole of the driver cutout is exposed. I was wondering if grinding it into a rounded over end would look nice (rounded over at the driver cutout vs a simple cutout).

As far as a decorative trim ring, how would you attach it so that it could be removed, if needed? I am very kind to subwoofer drivers, so I don't plan on having to have them repaired, however, I don't want to glue on a trim ring either, or so I would think...

??
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post #56 of 440 Old 10-09-2009, 12:06 AM - Thread Starter
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I found a nice new rental house... Room has 20 foot ceiling and is all open... If I don't find something better, I'll probably take it on Monday/Tuesday and move out Nov 15th. Black Hole Subs will have to be sold before move out date, so I have to work on that...

I'll have to get an electician to install some dedicated lines and probably also some 220 lines into that room. Looks like I will need to make the amp decision sooner rather than later...
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post #57 of 440 Old 10-09-2009, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut View Post

I agree it is better to 'oversink' the driver, than the opposite, especially if you are going to mount a trim ring. The good part is that the Quartz stone material will have the driver cuttout holes polished, so it would probaly look nice, or at least fine, if the hole of the driver cutout is exposed. I was wondering if grinding it into a rounded over end would look nice (rounded over at the driver cutout vs a simple cutout).

As far as a decorative trim ring, how would you attach it so that it could be removed, if needed? I am very kind to subwoofer drivers, so I don't plan on having to have them repaired, however, I don't want to glue on a trim ring either, or so I would think...

??


If it was me, I would gives a bunch of thought to the mechanism of attachment. Soon as you get things going and done, you do not want to second guess yourself- especially with the stones- not a lot of forgiveness in that stuff. Take your time-that is the fun of it. This is going to be a great build.
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post #58 of 440 Old 10-09-2009, 12:33 AM
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Might want to look at the new Peavey ampsthat are coming out. 6000 watts rms for $599 they also have ones with DSP. They only weigh 7 pounds. I can't wait for some one to test these.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/IPR6000/
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post #59 of 440 Old 10-10-2009, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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I will look into doing stone cutouts for trim rings and magnets to attach them. MDF trim rings would probably not look the part in this case, or so I would think. Anodised Aluminum might work, but not sure how I would have something like that made. Either way I was mistaken in that I had to make that decision now. I can use magnets for attachment at some point when the subs are completed. I should do that now with the Black Hole Subs.
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post #60 of 440 Old 10-10-2009, 10:19 AM - Thread Starter
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We are making the cuts today and tomorrow. I'll be taking some pictures. We are doing test runs on the CNC machine. We are making the binding post holes perfectly CNC machined so that it includes all of the detail of the inserts: the inserts will be completely flush and even have the notch and all the detail cut out ...

I decided to recess the driver so that it is a total of 0.875" recessed, instead of 0.7"
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