Danley DTS-10 "Super Spud" DIY kit - Page 344 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #10291 of 10354 Old 10-19-2017, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mathelo View Post
Still in love with my dual system. Makes me grin every time I demo the opening scene in Hurt locker.
I was going to ask if they were in the picture, then when I looked a second time there they were in (almost) plain view!

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post #10292 of 10354 Old 10-19-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by soundemon View Post
No love for me sadly. Cleaned out, all wiring replaced, all gaskets replaced, sealed up tight and still sounds terrible. Drivers are fine so I have to conclude there's a problem with the path of the horn somewhere in an area I cant see. Anyone have any idea how one might confirm this?
Have you tried contacting Danley? They are usually pretty quick to respond. They may have some ideas for trouble shooting. Hope you get things worked out, good luck.

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post #10293 of 10354 Old 10-19-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by mcallister View Post
Have you tried contacting Danley? They are usually pretty quick to respond. They may have some ideas for trouble shooting. Hope you get things worked out, good luck.
Great idea, I've just sent them a note now. Hopefully they'll have some advice for me!

I think we're the demons.
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post #10294 of 10354 Old 10-19-2017, 07:12 PM
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I don't want to be captain obvious here but are you sure you don't have the drivers wired in phase of one another? They need to be out of phase as one pushes as the other pulls. I mistakenly wired one of mine incorrectly and the output resembled a popcorn fart. I know it can be frustrating but don't give up on it. I have three integrated into my dedicated room and love them.

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post #10295 of 10354 Old 10-20-2017, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BRAD S View Post
I don't want to be captain obvious here but are you sure you don't have the drivers wired in phase of one another? They need to be out of phase as one pushes as the other pulls. I mistakenly wired one of mine incorrectly and the output resembled a popcorn fart. I know it can be frustrating but don't give up on it. I have three integrated into my dedicated room and love them.

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Here are a couple pics of my DTS-10's.Click image for larger version

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post #10296 of 10354 Old 10-20-2017, 07:28 AM
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Damn Brad, Excellent looking room! who knew you could hide not one but 3 DTS10s!!!


I did do the battery test, making sure the drivers both move in and out at the same time, so mechanically in phase and electrically out of phase.


I did some more work on it last nite and made some progress. its very odd, by switching my EP4000 from parallel input to stereo input, the DTS sounded a ton better! I've got a bunch of EQ work to do, and level matching via test tones from my receiver is very odd as it still makes that static tone, but thru a few movie scenes and some music, it was definitely making solid bass!

I think we're the demons.
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post #10297 of 10354 Old 10-27-2017, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post
I was going to ask if they were in the picture, then when I looked a second time there they were in (almost) plain view!
I've always intended to paint them so they blend in with the wall but I've just not gotten around to it. One day ...
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post #10298 of 10354 Old 10-27-2017, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by soundemon View Post
Damn Brad, Excellent looking room! who knew you could hide not one but 3 DTS10s!!!


I did do the battery test, making sure the drivers both move in and out at the same time, so mechanically in phase and electrically out of phase.


I did some more work on it last nite and made some progress. its very odd, by switching my EP4000 from parallel input to stereo input, the DTS sounded a ton better! I've got a bunch of EQ work to do, and level matching via test tones from my receiver is very odd as it still makes that static tone, but thru a few movie scenes and some music, it was definitely making solid bass!
Good to hear you've made progress, but I'd dump the EP4000 for a real amp and report back.
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post #10299 of 10354 Old 10-27-2017, 08:26 PM
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I just bought two of DTS10... Would i need inuke3000dsp or inuke6000dsp??
Cerwin Vega CV-5000
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post #10300 of 10354 Old 02-09-2018, 09:27 AM
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Hey guys finally had to work on the equipment rack a bit and do some cable management. Bought a new rack mount ups cause the old one died a couple years ago. Long story short on that take time separating your power lines from your signal paths etc will save you lots of hum headaches in the future. Also make sure to combine like items in your chain into the same power sources. I've a dedicated sub panel etc for this reason. If anyone has hum issues I can post a separate post on what I've experienced and how to deal with it.


I've two Danley dts-10 cabs. As some remember awhile back I had some driver failures and eventually put Alpine SWR subs in my top cabinet. It's been awesome since. So much that I think been over driving the old timer cabinet (lower one). I've noticed light noise out of it past few weeks so I investigated. Turns out yup my drivers from 2011 finally may of been toasted to many times. One has former scraping very slightly which in a horn like this becomes a defined rattle on the exit port. One driver out of whack will kill the other one since they need each other.

My cabinets are stacked and on casters to make easier for service or just move around. I've them bolted to steel tubing which is anchored and through bolted to my roof trusses. The support tubes are sound deadened outside and filled with sand inside. Tubes are supported off the wall by skate wheels as vibration isolators. The two cabs are latched together by load rated side latches which are bolted on (mcmastercarr). The cabs then back up to these support tubes with 4 bolt points located inside each hatch area by huge fender washers and locknuts. Why? cause this is a huge towering 570+ lbs right behind my dining table area


If you want to upgrade the sub to use is an Alpine SWR Dual 2 ohm (wire the 2 ohm coils in series making a 4 ohm driver). There is a newer version recently out with a W identifier. I'm using 2 of those this time around. The Danley drivers are 4 ohms each. When wired by diagram your putting in parallel (even though one sub is reverse polarity) which gives a 2 ohm total load per cabinet. When coupled with the cabinet itself and driven by an amp the load on the amp is much higher range impedance. I imagine this is part of the impedance coupling of the cabinet to free air but not an expert on it.

I notched the cabinet brace as precaution cause the Alpines like the (NLA TC LMSR driver) can potentially hit the brace having longer excursion. Notched it about 3/4 to extra inch even though only need another 1/4 to be safe. The Alpine drivers come with fancy rubber rings and jumper wire. Remove all rubber from the baskets and throw them in the garbage along with the included jumpers. The rubber doesn't seal good and the jumpers are crap they fail, come out, and just overall bad. I make my own jumpers out of bare 10 awg belden cable. Gasket tape order the roll from PE. On the driver where the face is inward (basket outward) use three layers thick of gasket tape on the face rim. On the standard facing driver use 2 layers of tape under the rim. I use new steel 10-24 machine screws to mount the drivers. The standard facing one can use shorter 1 inch, on the reverse mounted one use 2 inch. When done check your final output terminals with a fresh 9v battery and make sure the drivers are moving the same direction when touched.

Anyways here's some pics. Enjoy.



























old dts10 drivers wired parallel per diagram

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #10301 of 10354 Old 02-10-2018, 08:51 AM
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Awesome update, thanks for taking the time to share, BTW, always loved the graphics you applied to the outside!

One day I will get mine up and running... may have to retire first!

Al
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post #10302 of 10354 Old 02-10-2018, 11:43 AM
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It's crazy how well alpine subs do in home audio use lol.

Do you have a picture of that wooden piece of sexiness in its home? It's a shame there's no kits out there anymore, from what I hear that's a design that's hard to copy.

- 6 BA CR6 array center channel, QSC AD-S82 L/R, 4 jbl 8330a surr , 8 jbl 12" subs w/Inuke 6000. JVC rs420, Denon x4000, Sony x800 -
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post #10303 of 10354 Old 02-10-2018, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Al Sherwood View Post
Awesome update, thanks for taking the time to share, BTW, always loved the graphics you applied to the outside!

One day I will get mine up and running... may have to retire first!
Hey Al, no problem. Yep graphics are from https://www.eazywallz.com/ peel and stick murals. We really like how it turned out too. My lady did the grills; negative look spray paint over the mural then removed it.


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It's crazy how well alpine subs do in home audio use lol.

Do you have a picture of that wooden piece of sexiness in its home? It's a shame there's no kits out there anymore, from what I hear that's a design that's hard to copy.
These Alpines are super in this cabinet. Real power beasts, and dare I remind they sound just as good at low levels. Volume cranked can seriously slap you silly.

I'd take a current pic but relatives just came in and it's a mess here. Will update the thread maybe after some cleaning. Was looking over my old invoices for these dts10's and just memories of how all of it came to be. Feel very lucky to be online at the time of release for the kits. They have been one of the best bargains on this forum. AVS is still one of the greatest forums for this kinda stuff. I learned a lot from members right here in this sub forum. Found complete audio nirvana FEB 2014 once added the diysoundgroup Tempests to the Danley dts10's. The forum addiction has slowed to about nothing, maybe 1 post per year Strange how that happened.

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."

Last edited by autox320; 02-10-2018 at 04:19 PM.
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post #10304 of 10354 Old 02-17-2018, 07:40 PM
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Looks like all the old pics are deleted or held hostage. Here's my rig, and living room theater.

Mains; diysoundgroup Fusion Tempest's
Surrounds; modded SHO10's
All powered by Behringer EPX4000's
Subs; 2 Danley DTS10's (Alpine SWR upgraded)
Each powered by it's own EP4000 running in bridge mode
Behringer BFD1124P
networked Yamaha RX-V867
networked Yamaha BD-S671
8 Terabyte QNAP NAS
Cyberpower UPS
Lenovo media center PC

PJ; Panasonic AE4000 (really like the ratio auto zoom detecting what content you watch)
Screen; 115" Elite Cinemascope 235:1

We're old school for movie storage. Used to keep up with the NAS. Then had digital disc storage carousels, but all 8 failed. Back to the old tried and true shoe boxes Sleeves are labeled and master sheets to find what number and box it's in.





folding sound deadened door keeps rack noise out of the listening room






Danley's are about 30ft away; the receiver YPAO set's them delay wise at 34.4ft; they sound like they are in your face when need to



"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #10305 of 10354 Old 02-25-2018, 05:58 AM
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Broke in the subs past week or so. Had a buddy over last night just to crank it, find the limit, and see if can blow anything up. At the price SonicElectronix has the Alpines right now pushing the new line I bought some spares.

So I've the signal chain set normally for subwoofer level 0 on the rcvr. Normally with music or movies depending on LF can boost it up to about +6 db (not you Tron). We started there at +6 on the rcvr. Different gangsta rap music tracks full tilt and no strain noises from the subs over 120 db range up to 130. Then it happened. . . for the first time since install I finally popped both rear panel breakers on the EP4000's. I've never ever been able to do that before. Reset them and tried to see if could do it again, yup less than a minute all out. To be fair the BFD was in the first red light so yes sig chain was on ragged edge of feeding the amps clipping (rcvr +6). Was just a test to see if could bottom a driver in this cab (doubted with super xmax and shorting rings) and once and for all doubt could ever make that happen with these. Just ridiculous.

Rcvr back to SW of 0 level; signal chain happiest no clipping ever at all out volume. BFD just last yellows and occasional blip of a red (Tron laser). Normally how I've it setup and measure the rcvr for clean output to feed everything before it's clipping. Just whoah on movies.

These Alpine drivers are awesome and are eating over 1000w RMS each in this cabinet. My lady leaned in while I was rolling out the rack enough to reset the amps rear breakers. "babe it's good enough, the rooms are losing things" me: "I hope so cause we'd need bigger amps" her:"only if you have a separate building"

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #10306 of 10354 Old 02-25-2018, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
Broke in the subs past week or so. Had a buddy over last night just to crank it, find the limit, and see if can blow anything up. At the price SonicElectronix has the Alpines right now pushing the new line I bought some spares.

So I've the signal chain set normally for subwoofer level 0 on the rcvr. Normally with music or movies depending on LF can boost it up to about +6 db (not you Tron). We started there at +6 on the rcvr. Different gangsta rap music tracks full tilt and no strain noises from the subs over 120 db range up to 130. Then it happened. . . for the first time since install I finally popped both rear panel breakers on the EP4000's. I've never ever been able to do that before. Reset them and tried to see if could do it again, yup less than a minute all out. To be fair the BFD was in the first red light so yes sig chain was on ragged edge of feeding the amps clipping (rcvr +6). Was just a test to see if could bottom a driver in this cab (doubted with super xmax and shorting rings) and once and for all doubt could ever make that happen with these. Just ridiculous.

Rcvr back to SW of 0 level; signal chain happiest no clipping ever at all out volume. BFD just last yellows and occasional blip of a red (Tron laser). Normally how I've it setup and measure the rcvr for clean output to feed everything before it's clipping. Just whoah on movies.

These Alpine drivers are awesome and are eating over 1000w RMS each in this cabinet. My lady leaned in while I was rolling out the rack enough to reset the amps rear breakers. "babe it's good enough, the rooms are losing things" me: "I hope so cause we'd need bigger amps" her:"only if you have a separate building"
Good stuff!

Do you have a link to the alpines? I have 4 DTS-10s, two of them I’ve upgraded with alpines two are still the original drivers. I’m in the middle of a dedicated room build so everything is currently out of commission, would be a good time to swap in the alpines on the other two!

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post #10307 of 10354 Old 02-25-2018, 07:50 AM
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Good stuff!

Do you have a link to the alpines? I have 4 DTS-10s, two of them I’ve upgraded with alpines two are still the original drivers. I’m in the middle of a dedicated room build so everything is currently out of commission, would be a good time to swap in the alpines on the other two!
Not sure how much longer this pricing holds up but link to old drivers (black cone typeR) and they free upgrade you to the new W version typeR(dark grey cone). So the 12D2 is only 175 free shipping for the new W (249ea). I had an additional amount off maybe call them and see if making a purchase of multiples they'll give more off.

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...EST-MODEL.html

act quick is all I can say lol

I did ask lilmike on these newer W version and they still model well in the dts10. . . . with even more power handling than ever before. IMO no reason to need anything else in this cab. I'd personally say totally forget the old LMSR TC sounds drivers
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post #10308 of 10354 Old 02-25-2018, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by autox320 View Post
Not sure how much longer this pricing holds up but link to old drivers (black cone typeR) and they free upgrade you to the new W version typeR(dark grey cone). So the 12D2 is only 175 free shipping for the new W (249ea). I had an additional amount off maybe call them and see if making a purchase of multiples they'll give more off.

https://www.sonicelectronix.com/item...EST-MODEL.html

act quick is all I can say lol

I did ask lilmike on these newer W version and they still model well in the dts10. . . . with even more power handling than ever before. IMO no reason to need anything else in this cab. I'd personally say totally forget the old LMSR TC sounds drivers

Thanks for the link! (this site always causes me to spend money!!) Hard to pass up at that price...

Sony XBR-75Z9D, Anthem AVM 60, Sunfire Cinema Grand 7 Signature + GFA-555, - Onix RS850, RSC300, RS300, RS 250 -
Martin Logan Motion AFX (ATMOS), Sub: Danley DTS-10 + Behringer EP4000, OPPO 203
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post #10309 of 10354 Old 02-25-2018, 05:20 PM
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No problem Gents! Been a sonic customer a long time. Prices are always great and they do have excellent customer service which still goes a long ways these days. They offer SMD products as well and I highly recommend a SMD DD1 to easily setup signal chain; yes works on HT also. Helps get the signal chain right especially if using a bunch of rack amps on your gear. If the rcvr is clipping feeding your amps well. . . as they say trash in trash out

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #10310 of 10354 Old 02-28-2018, 05:45 PM
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Thought I'd throw this in for giggles. Cut apart the rattle Danley driver to see what's up with it. This is very early stage of pushing it to far you'll hear the death rattle noise. My other sub I threw away last year I never cut open but it was blown ie no output. This one still worked and starting failure was the coil getting slammed into the backplate Chipping away at the coil, former, and tape glue. Enough to where it was interfering with movement and causing scraping sounds ie rattles when moved fast at playing freqs. Over driven probably yes a lot of times.

IMO price you pay when softer active suspension and no short rings. Also if hear driver clanks make sure your HPF is on approx 11hz. Either way if enough power you can still unload the driver at certain areas. Nature of the beast.

Coil is 3" on these basically a lab15 coil and magnet on a lab12 frame and cone. Coil doesn't look fried and was handling the juice. Basically just over driven and probably unloaded at low freqs on edge of what the suspension could handle.

Alpines have lots of tech and would bet never have this issue. They can just choke out my ep4000's if they ever get out of hand. Then again if you don't listen to recommended power levels and go to 11 maybe consider updating drivers I'll be sure to post an Alpine SWR failure if I have one. They get no mercy from me. If few beers into some demo with friends and I didn't check the LF of the track, the amps will let me know







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"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #10311 of 10354 Old 03-02-2018, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
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Hi guys

I can probably answer a few of the things you have brought up to Brandon and Josh but not all of them at this point in time given the early state of the project.

I suppose the most common thing people know about horns is that they produce a higher SPL for a given radiator excursion by placing additional acoustic load on the drivers radiator or radiators in this case as there are two.
This load is presented as a higher pressure and there has been mention of throat distortion and velocity limits in the throat.
Here is the old thumb rule for calculating this;

http://books.google.com/books?id=b_w...age&q=&f=false
Seems like an excellent book, gonna order one. Thanks for the link.
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post #10312 of 10354 Old 03-02-2018, 06:59 PM
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Seems like an excellent book, gonna order one. Thanks for the link.
Very in depth book indeed. I could only find it on ebook not hard copy by ISBN. Tom Danley has been generous to offer input and provide details to horn theory and operation. There are some great posts in this thread alone.

few beers in here so a quick ramble
In a gist from my understanding horns achieve surrounding atmosphere loading using a horn path to couple to free air. This keeps cone movement to a minimum putting load on the drivers allowing larger spl/watt. Benefit of tapped horn is tapping the speaker at location of the horn path to couple back and front of the speaker cone/cones. Basically doubling surface area. 12" driver becomes 24" etc within a bandwidth of operation. Very neat piece of kit. Tom is the man enough said. The synergy horns doing this technique with full range drivers and crossover delays etc is just genius to me. Without coupling to atmo your just limited to driver suspension over cabinet space with given power it can take. Atmo loading keeps things in check and allows thinking completely out of the box ability.

play on!
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"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #10313 of 10354 Old 05-24-2018, 01:47 PM
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Very in depth book indeed. I could only find it on ebook not hard copy by ISBN. Tom Danley has been generous to offer input and provide details to horn theory and operation. There are some great posts in this thread alone.

few beers in here so a quick ramble
In a gist from my understanding horns achieve surrounding atmosphere loading using a horn path to couple to free air. This keeps cone movement to a minimum putting load on the drivers allowing larger spl/watt. Benefit of tapped horn is tapping the speaker at location of the horn path to couple back and front of the speaker cone/cones. Basically doubling surface area. 12" driver becomes 24" etc within a bandwidth of operation. Very neat piece of kit. Tom is the man enough said. The synergy horns doing this technique with full range drivers and crossover delays etc is just genius to me. Without coupling to atmo your just limited to driver suspension over cabinet space with given power it can take. Atmo loading keeps things in check and allows thinking completely out of the box ability.

play on!

autox320 your posts have been very informative, you have me wanting to buy the Alpine drivers just to try them out and see if they are better than the stock!


I've been re-reading through this thread to catch up on things, I installed my Danley years ago and haven't had to mess with it since, it has worked great. Now I'm upgrading to a modern receiver to do Atmos and this one will support a .2 out


Is anybody else using their Danley in combination with another sub(s) on a receiver or processor that has 2 separate sub outs? If so, how are you EQ'ing them? Do you let Audyssey do it all or do you run it through another processor like a DCX10?

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post #10314 of 10354 Old 05-24-2018, 08:35 PM
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Benefit of tapped horn is tapping the speaker at location of the horn path to couple back and front of the speaker cone/cones. Basically doubling surface area. 12" driver becomes 24" etc within a bandwidth of operation.
Note that "within a bandwidth of operation", it's a very narrow BW to fill in the TH/TL's natural 3rd harmonic dip and only with the drivers at the proper line offset and actually reduces output below this point as it moves out-of-phase, so if one only needs a couple of octaves, then an offset driver [tapped] TL can be a better choice overall.

Yes, but just so there's no confusion, doubling cone area [Sd] = 2^0.5 [~1.4142] x diameter, so for a 12" driver [~10" eff. dia.], [2] = 14.14" dia. = ~17" driver [if such exists].

For 24", [4] 12" [~20" eff. dia.] will get you close, so with [2] 12" in a TH, we get nearly a single 24" over a narrow BW and what makes this sub so 'brutal' in the mid-bass.

GM

Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
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post #10315 of 10354 Old 05-25-2018, 05:32 AM
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autox320 your posts have been very informative, you have me wanting to buy the Alpine drivers just to try them out and see if they are better than the stock!

I've been re-reading through this thread to catch up on things, I installed my Danley years ago and haven't had to mess with it since, it has worked great. Now I'm upgrading to a modern receiver to do Atmos and this one will support a .2 out


Is anybody else using their Danley in combination with another sub(s) on a receiver or processor that has 2 separate sub outs? If so, how are you EQ'ing them? Do you let Audyssey do it all or do you run it through another processor like a DCX10?
Welcome, and for sure I'd say the Alpines are the winner to me. I bought a spare set just in case but not found anything yet they can't handle. They are super stiff new so break in awhile. Going for it, don't be afraid to hammer on them

My receiver has dual LF outs which feed HPF [email protected] using custom filters, into both channels of a BFD1124 and 2 ep4000's in bridge. Never needed to add or mix another sub in with my setup. If I had anything else it would just drown in bass with two dts10s. I guess for low level if turned down output on another sub could mix at low levels possibly. I messed some with it but just not needed IMO. Bass shakers on my chairs aren't needed either for all out scenes. Usually if it's just me and the lady watching something moderate levels, we only turn on one sub



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Note that "within a bandwidth of operation", it's a very narrow BW to fill in the TH/TL's natural 3rd harmonic dip and only with the drivers at the proper line offset and actually reduces output below this point as it moves out-of-phase, so if one only needs a couple of octaves, then an offset driver [tapped] TL can be a better choice overall.

Yes, but just so there's no confusion, doubling cone area [Sd] = 2^0.5 [~1.4142] x diameter, so for a 12" driver [~10" eff. dia.], [2] = 14.14" dia. = ~17" driver [if such exists].

For 24", [4] 12" [~20" eff. dia.] will get you close, so with [2] 12" in a TH, we get nearly a single 24" over a narrow BW and what makes this sub so 'brutal' in the mid-bass.

GM
For sure GM, I was just generalizing to keep it simple. Ya know when mentioning area for output and size matters, it brings back memories. I still remember when kicker first introduced the solo square subs. It took a bit for the comp rules to catch up on why they were beating out their circular brothers. People forgot simple area geometry.

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #10316 of 10354 Old 06-01-2018, 11:55 AM
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autox you said you went with 2 ohm Alpines wired in series, is that right? Were the stock drivers 2 ohm so you did an exact replace?

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post #10317 of 10354 Old 06-01-2018, 07:28 PM
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autox you said you went with 2 ohm Alpines wired in series, is that right? Were the stock drivers 2 ohm so you did an exact replace?
2 x 12D2 (dual 2ohm version) alpines. Wire the drivers dual coils in series making 2x 4 ohm drivers, then when wired they are parallel bringing total load for one cabinet to 2 ohm.

Yes measured the Danley drivers at 4ohm each and wired they are 2 ohm parallel stock setup total load. Once the horn is in bandwidth the load impedance on the amp is much higher.

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post #10318 of 10354 Old 06-01-2018, 08:08 PM
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Make sure I'm reading you right -

Stock setup is 4ohm speakers wired in parallel so its a 2ohm load

Alpine is 2ohm speakers wired in series for a 4ohm load

?

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post #10319 of 10354 Old 06-01-2018, 08:11 PM
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Make sure I'm reading you right -

Stock setup is 4ohm speakers wired in parallel so its a 2ohm load

Alpine is 2ohm speakers wired in series for a 4ohm load

?
Alpines are dual voice coils per sub so your adding the two 2ohm+2ohm making a single 4ohm driver = to a danley driver, then wire both subs as normal when couple and mount the two drivers in the cabinet; end result is 2ohm measured at the terminals.

No worries there's never enough questions to not get confused with this stuff.

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post #10320 of 10354 Old 06-01-2018, 08:16 PM
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ok now I think I get you - I didn't notice the Alpines are dual voice coil. So it sounds like the Alpines are wired in series each particular standalone driver

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