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post #1 of 142 Old 03-18-2010, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I just sold my entire AV123 setup (well still trying to get rid of a pair of bookselves - RS150's) and am seriously considering going acoustically transparent screen with an LCR arrangment. I am thinking a DIY approach will net me the most bang for my buck and since the speakers will be concealed the appearance isn't as critical now.

LCR's - I would love to get something going like the JTR Triple 8's and haven't seen anything in the DIY kits that resembles this. I don't have a boatload of cash so I need to be efficient with my money. I have a friend that is willing to build the cabinets so I am not worried about that. I would prefer pre-assembled crossovers but given big enough cabinets and a good layout instruction manual I could attempt crossover assembly to save money.

Any ideas for the LCR's? - PICKED ECONOWAVEGUIDE DELUXE VERSIONS!
Courtesy Zilch at AudioKarma.org
eWaveGuide Deluxe Render


Finished Product


Subwoofer - I see the current rage is the THT's so I think I would like to try one of these as well. Average cost is about $400, but I already have a spare amp channel so the cost is down to about $200.
Almost done with it!
Current Progress:

Going to base my build around BFM's Tuba HT sub so I don't think I need to or can post any pictures of the render. Once I start construction I will post a few pictures...it seems there are a million build threads for THT's so I will probably only post about it if I have questions and when I am done with it.
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post #2 of 142 Old 03-18-2010, 05:00 PM
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Too bad Mayhem's project was stalled last year. It would have been very similar to what the JTRs offer.

Im hoping someone builds a JTR or Catalyst DIY version at some point but until then we have Waveguide designs if you are interested??

Those have HUGE dynamics for low $$$$

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post #3 of 142 Old 03-18-2010, 08:57 PM
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THT cost about $400 start to finish depending on amplifier unless you have amplification on hand already. Just to be 100% safe id budget $450 for the sub so you can have a nice finish if you so choose. But just some truck bedliner or duratex rolled on looks pretty sweet IMO thats what i did haha and can be had for $400. That would be leaving you with $1050-$100 for LCR. Alot of guys with the econowave speakers are running phantom center. But you should be able to build 3 higher end econowave's for around your budget of $1050. I would talk to zilch(hopefully he jumps in here) and see if he has gotten a version of the econowave up and running using the 10" deltalite woofers. You should easily be able to squeeze out 3 with your budget using that woofer and have an amazing setup.

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post #4 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 01:10 AM - Thread Starter
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So the econowave...first time I have heard of it in that name..is essentially what Tweak City is releasing in the Pro-10.

TCA Pro-10


What sort of impact does adding a 10" woofer in the speaker add to the overall sound as opposed to the small bookshelves from Hsu for instance...



I think I want to try a THT for sure. It sound like a fairly easy build and the price is right that I could do two of them in a fairly short time and it sounds like it would easily best my previous two subs (MFW-15 x 2).

What I want is some volume without distortion from my front three. I tend to like a smooth, slightly laid back sound but don't want to suffer clean, crisp dialogue for movies.

I want to be able to crank up some Concert Blurays and also be able to hear the lyrics. Does any of that make sense?
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post #5 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 03:03 AM
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The drivers JTR uses in it's triple 8 cost over $200 each plus shipping so there no real cost savings in DIYing them.
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post #6 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post

The drivers JTR uses in it's triple 8 cost over $200 each plus shipping so there no real cost savings in DIYing them.

I guess I was assuming that someone had found a similar driver/crossover configuration that was acceptable, cheaper, and appeared the same in a cabinet the same size.

I wasn't trying to infer that JTR was making a giant margin.

Any thoughts on the eWave versus the Pro-10.

TCA is trying to sell the Pro-10 for about $350 each plus shipping. You can build an EWG for cheaper but it seems like it may require some tweaking of the crossovers from what I am reading.
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post #7 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 08:04 AM
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Ewaves are unique via the constant directivity waveguides and the minimalist crossovers used to control the compression drivers. Don't know much about the Pro-10, but it doesn't look constant directivity to me.

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post #8 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 09:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 View Post

Ewaves are unique via the constant directivity waveguides and the minimalist crossovers used to control the compression drivers. Don't know much about the Pro-10, but it doesn't look constant directivity to me.

Care to explain what constant directivity is in laymen's terms?

It seems like the EWG designs I have seen utilize several different waveguides. Perhaps they all are constant directivity?
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post #9 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! View Post

The drivers JTR uses in it's triple 8 cost over $200 each plus shipping so there no real cost savings in DIYing them.

And you know this how?
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post #10 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 05:54 PM
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"Care to explain what constant directivity is in laymen's terms?"

here are a couple:

http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpe...ges/23369.html

www.gedlee.com/downloads/directivity.pdf

the big thread on project "econowave":

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=150939

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #11 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

Care to explain what constant directivity is in laymen's terms?

It seems like the EWG designs I have seen utilize several different waveguides. Perhaps they all are constant directivity?

Ok, constant directivity is maintaining a relatively flat frequency response even when you are off-axis. The opposite is a directional speaker, such as a regular horn, which sounds entirely different off axis (the highs only exist if the speakers are pointed right at you). The advantages of this are larger sweet spot, and a more even response within this area.

If it's an 'ewave' it's pretty much gonna be constant directivity. Most of the waveguides are oblate spheroid, a shape that is very conducive to CD.

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post #12 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starkiller4299 View Post

Ok, constant directivity is maintaining a relatively flat frequency response even when you are off-axis. The opposite is a directional speaker, such as a regular horn, which sounds entirely different off axis (the highs only exist if the speakers are pointed right at you). The advantages of this are larger sweet spot, and a more even response within this area.

If it's an 'ewave' it's pretty much gonna be constant directivity. Most of the waveguides are oblate spheroid, a shape that is very conducive to CD.

That is what I was looking for! Thank you for the very clear and simple explanation.

Any change of modifying the eWave designs to put the waveguide outside the enclosure? I think that looks pretty sweet...like this:
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post #13 of 142 Old 03-20-2010, 06:36 PM
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Thats a cute lpic! lol. But yes it can. Theres several PRO variations that have the compression driver and waveguide on the exterior of the box. http://qsc.com/products/speakers/dcs/dcs.htm

List your favorite BASS movies here...http://lfemovies.pbworks.com/FrontPage
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post #14 of 142 Old 03-27-2010, 05:08 PM - Thread Starter
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I decided to bite the bullet and dive into the EconoWave Deluxe version. I will be mounting the horn on top of a 2cu. ft. enclosure for the Eminence driver down low.

The compression driver is sold out but I have some time to figure out how this all goes together.

I just wish the THT discussions would figure out the best way to go for my bass...but looks like I will be busy soon building!
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post #15 of 142 Old 03-27-2010, 05:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

Too bad Mayhem's project was stalled last year. It would have been very similar to what the JTRs offer.

Im hoping someone builds a JTR or Catalyst DIY version at some point but until then we have Waveguide designs if you are interested??

Those have HUGE dynamics for low $$$$

It did not stall. Per the voting it was headed in that direction, but Mayhem did not want to go that route. His reasoning was a moving waveguide would not be good, but the cone movement in a JTR coaxial is very small.
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post #16 of 142 Old 03-28-2010, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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What amp are people using for the THT??

MusiciansFriend has a sale going on right now...15% single item with coupon "BREAK".

Might be the right time to buy...Thanks!
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post #17 of 142 Old 03-30-2010, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

What amp are people using for the THT??

MusiciansFriend has a sale going on right now...15% single item with coupon "BREAK".

Might be the right time to buy...Thanks!

Anyone? Thanks!
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post #18 of 142 Old 04-19-2010, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Well started putting together the crossovers for my EWaveguide Deluxe LCR's!

This took me about 1-1/2 hour. Took me awhile to figure out my new butane soldering iron...cord free is nice but the fuel burns pretty quick. I am a complete amateur so don't rely on that review as your only source. $12 was the right price and plus...FIRE!

Anyway....here is where I got:

Closeup of one -


Two 50% done -


One about 90% done - (forgot about the L-Pad wire connections so three wire connections left!)


I think another 1-1/2 hour tomorrow night should finish the crossovers. Then I will check them to make sure my bogus soldering skills didn't render them completely useless ( ops: ).

I will probably start the woofer break-in process as well...plus tell my cabinet builder he needs to get to work!
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post #19 of 142 Old 04-19-2010, 10:47 PM
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Please review the Deluxe crossover construction instructions. You have instead mounted components in the "Standard" eWave configuration:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...16#post3529116

The basic design and schematic are here:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...05#post3448405

Get some solder wick (or a solder sucker) from Radio Shack to assist in correcting the erroneous connections....

.
....Crank up the SIGNAL ... cut back the noise....
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post #20 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 05:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

Please review the Deluxe crossover construction instructions. You have instead mounted components in the "Standard" eWave configuration:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...16#post3529116

The basic design and schematic are here:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...05#post3448405

Get some solder wick (or a solder sucker) from Radio Shack to assist in correcting the erroneous connections....

Well that figures...darnit.

Looking at the picture of the deluxe crossover:



The only difference I notice is the stacked resistor, which I don't see in the schematic or the shopping list, and the jumper wire across C3, which I guess I should probably add.

I must be having a dense moment...how did I screw this up exactly?
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post #21 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 05:44 AM
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can you flip the crossovers over so we can see the quality of the solder joints, it doesn't look like they went all the way through.
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post #22 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

Anyone? Thanks!

Oaudio 500W BASH amp. Relatively cheap, good controls, works great.

www.oaudio.com

One THT will give you great bass with EQ at one listening position. To get a great FR at more than one spot, careful positioning and luck or multiple subs are some options...

JSS
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post #23 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

I must be having a dense moment...how did I screw this up exactly?

The resistors are reversed, and they and the inductor are installed in the wrong holes. I can tell immediately because the resistors should be mounted with a diagonal offset at the end where the L-pad connections are.

Read the linked instructions for building the Deluxe crossover on the Standard boards again. You'll have to de-solder those connections and re-install the components to get it right.

Mail one to me and I'll fix it as a model, if you can't get it figured out....

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post #24 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

The resistors are reversed, and they and the inductor are installed in the wrong holes. I can tell immediately because the resistors should be mounted with a diagonal offset at the end where the L-pad connections are.

Read the linked instructions for building the Deluxe crossover on the Standard boards again. You'll have to de-solder those connections and re-install the components to get it right.

Mail one to me and I'll fix it as a model, if you can't get it figured out....

Where would the fun be in that?! I am a complete noob but I want to try...I also have reading comprehension problems when there are pictures involved!

I will see if I can fix it without messing things up...I cut the leads already on the back side.

If not...it will be an expensive mistake ($120?).

Quote:
Originally Posted by stdgz View Post

can you flip the crossovers over so we can see the quality of the solder joints, it doesn't look like they went all the way through.

And in order to do that I would have to completely swallow my pride and show you what a crap job I did...I was more planning on getting components in right spot (first!) and then testing with drivers to see if the connections are solid...that way I can at least act like I know what I am doing around here.
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post #25 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

If not...it will be an expensive mistake ($120?).

Unless you are totally inept, worst case is new resistors, less than $10 total....

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post #26 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

Unless you are totally inept, worst case is new resistors, less than $10 total....

Let me have a chance to prove myself totally inept...

Why in the description did you go for 20W heat dissipation and then describe the procedure not including stacked resistors?

Bought some solder wick and a de-soldering bulb...let's have a go at it!
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post #27 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_mitch View Post

Why in the description did you go for 20W heat dissipation and then describe the procedure not including stacked resistors?

Because the necessity for additional thermal dissipation capacity is indeterminate. If the speakers will be used in high-power sound reinforcement, it'd probably be a good idea to beef it up.

Note that Wayne Parham quadruples the resistors in his Pi-Speaker crossovers for this very reason; same with JBL in their high-power SR products. I have never detected a temperature rise under normal listening conditions, but that doesn't mean it can't happen....

.
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post #28 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 07:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Is that what you were talking about? To be honest...I hadn't seen those directions before...I assumed the deluxe changed values and not layout...you know what happens when you assume.

I will wait for confirmation before continuing with the other two boards.

Thanks!
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post #29 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab View Post

Because the necessity for additional thermal dissipation capacity is indeterminate. If the speakers will be used in high-power sound reinforcement, it'd probably be a good idea to beef it up.

Note that Wayne Parham quadruples the resistors in his Pi-Speaker crossovers for this very reason; same with JBL in their high-power SR products. I have never detected a temperature rise under normal listening conditions, but that doesn't mean it can't happen....

That makes sense...these will be in an HT that is about 20x14 with little ones so I barely get to listen at reference and it is usually for short bursts before the wife comes downstairs. I was planning on stuffing the box with fiberglass so it sounds like I shouldn't expect any problems, but I should be aware of their potential.
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post #30 of 142 Old 04-20-2010, 08:06 PM
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Looks correct, though I would dress the inductor lead more to the right, away from the resistor leads. I stick the inductor label under it but readable down the center hole, and secure the inductor with a cable tie, as shown in the pic.

Unless you intend to biamp, you also need to install jumpers J1 and J2. Fetch the clipped leads from the wastebasket for this use....

.
....Crank up the SIGNAL ... cut back the noise....
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