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post #4411 of 4714 Old 07-25-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I have a question about making PEQ filters for my dual subs through REW and exporting them into my MiniSSP 2x4 HD.
If I did my measurements in REW with my Dirac room calibration off and set my sub gain to 0 and my sub trim to 0 for the sake of the measurements to be sent to the MiniDSP would it matter if after they are sent to the MiniDSP I was to return my sub gain to -12 or -14 and turn DIRAC on?

Would that make the PEQ not relevant or accurate if at different sub gain levels?

Also, I’️m guessing that the measurements with the room correction off is best-that’️s what I did. I only measured both subs with no speakers attatched btw
I also have multiple subs, use a 2x4, and have Dirac Live room correction, so my guidelines may be useful. My approach is as follows:

1. I turn off room correction prior to the sub-only REW measurements, leave the mains off, and measure 15-300Hz.
2. I do NOT alter the sub amp gain level for the REW measurements (i.e. leave the gain settings the same as when the last Dirac Live session was conducted).
3. I use the AVR master volume to set the level of the REW measurements, with my target level for the measurement 90dB.
4. I load the resulting REW measurement into REW's EQ tool and click on the link that sets the level to what was used for the measurement sweep (it should show very close to 90dB).
5. In the EQ tool, I set the target type to "Subwoofer" and leave the other settings at default values for the first pass.
6. I then click "Match response to target" and observe the Predicted Response.
7. If the Predicted Response does not meet my expectations, I experiment with adjusting the settings until I have reached the best possible result. Remember, it is difficult to raise dips, but easy to lower peaks.
8. Upon completion, I export the results, load the filters into the 2x4, and re-measure with REW to make sure the filters have indeed produced the desired results.
9. Next, and VERY IMPORTANT, I re-run the Dirac Live calibration. Since the sub response changed when the filters were applied, the Dirac calibration for the sub channel is no longer valid.
10. Finally, I re-measure with REW to see the combined effect of the REW PEQ and the fresh Dirac Live calibration, and compare with the response prior to all this effort. Hopefully, there will be a significant improvement.
Thanks for the helpful response Jerry. I will redo the measurement with the same sub gain that I used for the Dirac measurement if that will matter.

Also, in your case, you did 90 dB target-not sure if that is a recommended aim or a arbitrary number but when I did mine I got the error message about % being above or beneath the target until I increased it to 97 dB...does this matter?

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post #4412 of 4714 Old 07-25-2019, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I have a question about making PEQ filters for my dual subs through REW and exporting them into my MiniSSP 2x4 HD.
If I did my measurements in REW with my Dirac room calibration off and set my sub gain to 0 and my sub trim to 0 for the sake of the measurements to be sent to the MiniDSP would it matter if after they are sent to the MiniDSP I was to return my sub gain to -12 or -14 and turn DIRAC on?

Would that make the PEQ not relevant or accurate if at different sub gain levels?

Also, I’️m guessing that the measurements with the room correction off is best-that’️s what I did. I only measured both subs with no speakers attatched btw
I also have multiple subs, use a 2x4, and have Dirac Live room correction, so my guidelines may be useful. My approach is as follows:

1. I turn off room correction prior to the sub-only REW measurements, leave the mains off, and measure 15-300Hz.
2. I do NOT alter the sub amp gain level for the REW measurements (i.e. leave the gain settings the same as when the last Dirac Live session was conducted).
3. I use the AVR master volume to set the level of the REW measurements, with my target level for the measurement 90dB.
4. I load the resulting REW measurement into REW's EQ tool and click on the link that sets the level to what was used for the measurement sweep (it should show very close to 90dB).
5. In the EQ tool, I set the target type to "Subwoofer" and leave the other settings at default values for the first pass.
6. I then click "Match response to target" and observe the Predicted Response.
7. If the Predicted Response does not meet my expectations, I experiment with adjusting the settings until I have reached the best possible result. Remember, it is difficult to raise dips, but easy to lower peaks.
8. Upon completion, I export the results, load the filters into the 2x4, and re-measure with REW to make sure the filters have indeed produced the desired results.
9. Next, and VERY IMPORTANT, I re-run the Dirac Live calibration. Since the sub response changed when the filters were applied, the Dirac calibration for the sub channel is no longer valid.
10. Finally, I re-measure with REW to see the combined effect of the REW PEQ and the fresh Dirac Live calibration, and compare with the response prior to all this effort. Hopefully, there will be a significant improvement.
Also, are you absolutely sure that changing the sub gains from the DIRAC measurements matter since not only is DIRaC off for the sub EQ but chances are the AVR master volume will not be the same as when running Dirac.

In other words Dirac changes the AVR levels and the master volume knob when run-do do I have to also set that the same when doing the sub measurements and EQ?
Isn’t the sub gain volume related to the AVR level as well? Ie if Dirac sets my AVR master volume at say 17.8 dB and my sub gain at -19 (which I think were mine) then do I have to set those same levels for the sub tests or does it really matter at the end of the day for what’s sent to MiniDSP.

Since I did my original sub EQ with my AVR at -20 that will make my sub gain at -19 softer then if the AVR was louder right? So that’s why I am unsure if it matters or not for the purpose of exporting the PEQ filters to MiniDSP since otherwise the master AVR volume AND the sub gain would have to be similar to Dirac calibration (which isn’t even on for the testing anyways...)

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post #4413 of 4714 Old 07-25-2019, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Thanks for the helpful response Jerry. I will redo the measurement with the same sub gain that I used for the Dirac measurement if that will matter.

Also, in your case, you did 90 dB target-not sure if that is a recommended aim or a arbitrary number but when I did mine I got the error message about % being above or beneath the target until I increased it to 97 dB...does this matter?
You should not be getting that error. As I offered previously, if you were to make your MDAT available for downloading, I would be able to get a better idea of what you are seeing.

The 90dB target is preference. The guideline is to measure at least 40dB above your noise floor. Nothing wrong with measuring at a higher level, as long as you click on the link in the EQ tool to match the measured response level.
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post #4414 of 4714 Old 07-25-2019, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Also, are you absolutely sure that changing the sub gains from the DIRAC measurements matter since not only is DIRaC off for the sub EQ but chances are the AVR master volume will not be the same as when running Dirac.

In other words Dirac changes the AVR levels and the master volume knob when run-do do I have to also set that the same when doing the sub measurements and EQ?
Isn’t the sub gain volume related to the AVR level as well? Ie if Dirac sets my AVR master volume at say 17.8 dB and my sub gain at -19 (which I think were mine) then do I have to set those same levels for the sub tests or does it really matter at the end of the day for what’s sent to MiniDSP.

Since I did my original sub EQ with my AVR at -20 that will make my sub gain at -19 softer then if the AVR was louder right? So that’s why I am unsure if it matters or not for the purpose of exporting the PEQ filters to MiniDSP since otherwise the master AVR volume AND the sub gain would have to be similar to Dirac calibration (which isn’t even on for the testing anyways...)
Wow, you have me confused now. Keep in mind that I am using a MiniDSP 88A for Dirac Live, not a NAD, so I am unfamiliar with the calibration procedure for your setup. I suspect that it is similar. When doing a Dirac calibration, there is a level-setting step at the beginning of the calibration in which the output levels of all of the mains as well as the subwoofer are matched. I can’t provide any further advice other than to make sure your combined sub level is appropriately set before you run the calibration. You need to figure out how this relates to the sub levels when doing the EQ process.
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post #4415 of 4714 Old 07-25-2019, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
Also, are you absolutely sure that changing the sub gains from the DIRAC measurements matter since not only is DIRaC off for the sub EQ but chances are the AVR master volume will not be the same as when running Dirac.

In other words Dirac changes the AVR levels and the master volume knob when run-do do I have to also set that the same when doing the sub measurements and EQ?
Isn’️t the sub gain volume related to the AVR level as well? Ie if Dirac sets my AVR master volume at say 17.8 dB and my sub gain at -19 (which I think were mine) then do I have to set those same levels for the sub tests or does it really matter at the end of the day for what’️s sent to MiniDSP.

Since I did my original sub EQ with my AVR at -20 that will make my sub gain at -19 softer then if the AVR was louder right? So that’️s why I am unsure if it matters or not for the purpose of exporting the PEQ filters to MiniDSP since otherwise the master AVR volume AND the sub gain would have to be similar to Dirac calibration (which isn’️t even on for the testing anyways...)
Wow, you have me confused now. Keep in mind that I am using a MiniDSP 88A for Dirac Live, not a NAD, so I am unfamiliar with the calibration procedure for your setup. I suspect that it is similar. When doing a Dirac calibration, there is a level-setting step at the beginning of the calibration in which the output levels of all of the mains as well as the subwoofer are matched. I can’️t provide any further advice other than to make sure your combined sub level is appropriately set before you run the calibration. You need to figure out how this relates to the sub levels when doing the EQ process.
What I ended up doing-so far-is I made the PEQ filters for the dual subs through REW but I used 0 dB sub gain on both when designing the filters and matching target etc. I think the target level I used was 97 dB. DIRAC was off and I think I used -20 on AVR. I also measured the physical distances from subs to MLP and imported them into the MiniDSP. Then once done I imported the REW PEQ filters into the MiniDSP HD. THEN I redid DIRAC calibration with the MiniDSP in the chain. I ended up doing it at about -15 on the AVR and the subs gain was at -12. I won’t be able to remeasure for a few days but I think this is good

Also, can anyone confirm or deny that the level for subs to be calibrated and matched for MiniDSP PEQ filters through REW has to be the same for the sub gains used when doing DIRAC?

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post #4416 of 4714 Old 07-26-2019, 05:04 PM
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MiniDSP signal boost

Can anyone tell me if a miniDSP will boost the voltage on a RCA signal for LFE to a sufficient level for a pro style amp or would I still need to get something like a CleanBox as well?
Didn't have any luck with my searches finding a definitive answer and didn't want to buy the CleanBox if it's not needed, was planning on the miniDSP HD in the near future anyways.

I have a cheaper Onkyo TX-NR676 feeding a brand new Crown XLS 1002 which is bridged powering a DIY 18" Dayton RSS 460HO.

Sub plays but with gain cranked on AVR and on AMP output is very very very low, I can fart louder than this thing plays right now. I also have a hum once I get the gain on the amp over 3/4.
On the amp you can adjust the sensitivity on the incoming signal and when put that on the highest gain setting (.775 I believe) the output gets a little louder.

So, from what I can tell I need to boost the voltage on the incoming signal.

Thanks!
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post #4417 of 4714 Old 07-26-2019, 06:16 PM
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Can anyone tell me if a miniDSP will boost the voltage on a RCA signal for LFE to a sufficient level for a pro style amp or would I still need to get something like a CleanBox as well?
Didn't have any luck with my searches finding a definitive answer and didn't want to buy the CleanBox if it's not needed, was planning on the miniDSP HD in the near future anyways.

I have a cheaper Onkyo TX-NR676 feeding a brand new Crown XLS 1002 which is bridged powering a DIY 18" Dayton RSS 460HO.

Sub plays but with gain cranked on AVR and on AMP output is very very very low, I can fart louder than this thing plays right now. I also have a hum once I get the gain on the amp over 3/4.
On the amp you can adjust the sensitivity on the incoming signal and when put that on the highest gain setting (.775 I believe) the output gets a little louder.

So, from what I can tell I need to boost the voltage on the incoming signal.

Thanks!
The 2x4HD will output 2V, which is typically plenty to drive a powered sub. However, unless you have measured your current output using a voltmeter, you don’t know for sure whether 2V is more than what you have now.
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post #4418 of 4714 Old 07-27-2019, 08:55 AM
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The 2x4HD will output 2V, which is typically plenty to drive a powered sub. However, unless you have measured your current output using a voltmeter, you don’t know for sure whether 2V is more than what you have now.
Thank you. Tried to measure, looks like I need a new meter or leads...I'll follow up.
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post #4419 of 4714 Old 08-03-2019, 12:28 PM
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Hi Guys, I'm using a minidsp wi-dg to connect my 2x4 HD to my laptop over wifi. For the first month of use it would remember the correct IP address (when I open the software it would come up with the correct IP address already displayed in the box and I could just click "connect"). Now, when I open the software it opens with an empty IP box. I can still connect, but I have to enter the IP address manually every time (kinda clunky and time consuming in a dark HT). Does anyone know how to get the software to remember the IP address again?

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Is there a reason why you need to connect your laptop and MiniDSP repeatedly?

Are you using DHCP for your laptop? MiniDSP?

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post #4421 of 4714 Old 08-03-2019, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post
Is there a reason why you need to connect your laptop and MiniDSP repeatedly?

Are you using DHCP for your laptop? MiniDSP?

Jeff
Yeah, I got the minidsp primarily for BEQ, so I connect for a few seconds every time I watch a movie to load the BEQ settings.

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post #4422 of 4714 Old 08-03-2019, 03:56 PM
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Yeah, I got the minidsp primarily for BEQ, so I connect for a few seconds every time I watch a movie to load the BEQ settings.


Can you just use a USB cable? I use a USB over ethernet cable with my balanced 2x4. it is basically always connected and easy to load the BEQ files

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is there a reason why you need to connect your laptop and minidsp repeatedly?

Are you using dhcp for your laptop? Minidsp?

Jeff
yeah, i got the minidsp primarily for beq, so i connect for a few seconds every time i watch a movie to load the beq settings.
beq?

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beq?

Bass EQ
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post #4425 of 4714 Old 08-03-2019, 04:23 PM
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I feel like I might be emerging from my uninformed state ... these are PER MOVIE correction files?

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post #4427 of 4714 Old 08-03-2019, 04:30 PM
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@lawdogx , are you using DHCP or have you assigned static IP addresses to your network devices?

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post #4428 of 4714 Old 08-03-2019, 04:49 PM
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@lawdogx , are you using DHCP or have you assigned static IP addresses to your network devices?
Now I’m feeling uninformed. If you’re asking whether I enter the exact same ip address each time the answer is yes, same one that used to show up automatically every time at minidsp software startup.

And yes, they’re per-movie correction files for filtered movies. Best bang-for-the-buck investment in HT next to REW!

Thanks for your response, I appreciate you’re trying to help!

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@lawdogx , I may not be addressing your specific question, i.e. why do you need to enter an IP address every time, but it may be peripherally related.

In the setup/menu for every networked device - specifically your MiniDSP - there is a setting to have an IP address assigned automatically by the router or or to manually assign an IP. The latter might “fix” the forgetful MiniDSP software you run on your laptop. My thinking is that if the MiniDSP is being assigned a different address, that *could* be why the laptop software doesn’t “remember” it.

Manually assign an IP address/submask/DNS server to the MiniDSP’s network settings. Just make sure it is outside the DHCP pool.

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Last edited by pepar; 08-03-2019 at 05:34 PM.
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I feel like I might be emerging from my uninformed state ... these are PER MOVIE correction files?
I like the idea of BEQ EXCEPT having to put in different filters for each movie or content you watch...seems like a pain
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post #4431 of 4714 Old 08-06-2019, 01:53 PM
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It can be pretty automated. Read the front page of the BEQ post and you'll see how to automatically get/keep the most up to date files - no need to manually input them each time. Open the miniDSP, choose one of the 4 configurations, scroll down and double click on a movie BEQ file, wait a few seconds and you're done.
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post #4432 of 4714 Old 08-06-2019, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Chirosamsung View Post
I like the idea of BEQ EXCEPT having to put in different filters for each movie or content you watch...seems like a pain
As Spidacat says, it's minimal effort to load the BEQ file and a small price to pay to make every movie you watch full-band.
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post #4433 of 4714 Old 08-06-2019, 06:00 PM
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This might be a dumb question but I'm still trying to wrap my head around REW and MiniDSP.

When you are using REW to generate EQ, if you make several predicted EQ "passes" before arriving at a good target curve, when you export the PEQ file to upload to MiniDSP, are there multiple sets of filters that will be loaded or is it just the last EQ pass? I'm not sure if I'm asking this correctly or using the correct terminology.
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post #4434 of 4714 Old 08-06-2019, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by toothboy View Post
This might be a dumb question but I'm still trying to wrap my head around REW and MiniDSP.

When you are using REW to generate EQ, if you make several predicted EQ "passes" before arriving at a good target curve, when you export the PEQ file to upload to MiniDSP, are there multiple sets of filters that will be loaded or is it just the last EQ pass? I'm not sure if I'm asking this correctly or using the correct terminology.
The last one.
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post #4435 of 4714 Old 08-06-2019, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The last one.
Thank you.

So the proposed EQ is not cumulative...with each "try" in REW you're basically going back to your original graph rather than building on each prior EQ pass?
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post #4436 of 4714 Old 08-06-2019, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Spidacat View Post
Open the miniDSP, choose one of the 4 configurations, scroll down and double click on a movie BEQ file, wait a few seconds and you're done.
Unfortunately, as I'm discovering, this only works with the HD version. That said, I am able to loopback out 1 to in 2 (as I did before to increase the delay) of my lowly miniDSP to get up to 10 filters (which, indeed, need to be loaded manually}.
Since I hadn't been using it anyway, it's back in the chain and I'm looking forward to experimenting in the future.
Thanks for the encouragement.
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post #4437 of 4714 Old 08-07-2019, 02:14 AM
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It works for the non hd model however a minority of published beqs for films do use more than 6 biquads and so you have to edit these filters yourself to make it fit. This is easy enough to do though obviously more effort than loading an existing filter.
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post #4438 of 4714 Old 08-07-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toothboy View Post
Thank you.

So the proposed EQ is not cumulative...with each "try" in REW you're basically going back to your original graph rather than building on each prior EQ pass?
Correct. If you click on the EQ Filters tab you will see the generated filters change with each pass.
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post #4439 of 4714 Old 08-13-2019, 11:43 AM
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the preferred drill seems to be
use REW and minidsp 2x4hd to EQ 4 subs individually
and then use XT32 Sub EQ > 1 Ring to rule them all . . for the "unifying" touch

what if ? and I may have the "logic" / flow / understanding incorrect

AVR sub out (no eq applied) to a 2x4hd with ddrc24 on input 2
which is routed to output 4
which is routed to a 2x4hd , all in by pass
to the 4 outputs , essentially a 4 way splitter
each to an amp for each sub
and EQ's the whole mess at 1 time

Does it have the power to do that?

also sent this to minidsp . .

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post #4440 of 4714 Old 08-13-2019, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post
the preferred drill seems to be
use REW and minidsp 2x4hd to EQ 4 subs individually
and then use XT32 Sub EQ > 1 Ring to rule them all . . for the "unifying" touch
I don’t know where you get the idea that this is the preferred approach. EQ’ing subs individually will never guarantee that the combined sub response is optimal. Since you will always be listening to a combined sub response, the preferred approach, IMO, would be to EQ the combined response, thereby providing Audyssey with the smoothest response as input. Audyssey will then provide further improvement to the combined response.
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