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post #4651 of 4714 Old 11-05-2019, 07:53 AM
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Still, if you don't measure, you don't know what you have.
Some auto systems are better than others, but they can all be improved with a little (or more) tweaking.
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post #4652 of 4714 Old 11-05-2019, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneJoy View Post
If you just want dirac on two channel you can do a software update on the MiniDSP 2x4HD for $199 to the DDRC24. This should let you use the 2X4 without using REW.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post
This is what I was thinking. Any comments on this post?
This would be fine if all you want to do is provide Dirac correction to the left and right channels. However, it is not clear how you would provide the bass management in the 2x4HD to split out the low frequencies to drive the sub. I am not familiar with the 2x4HD plug-in to know if bass management is a capability. Perhaps @WayneJoy would be kind enough to respond with a description on how that could be accomplished.

And regardless of your approach, if you don’t measure the results, you are flying blind. You may be OK with that, but I like to know whether the money I am spending is being used to the best of its capabilities.
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post #4653 of 4714 Old 11-05-2019, 08:57 AM
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@AustinJerry


I have the left signal going into input 1 which goes to output one with a highpass filter at 80hz which goes to an amp and my left speaker. Output 2 gets the left input 1 signal with a low pass filter at 80hz and goes to my left sub. Input 2 gets the right signal with the same as above going to the right speaker and right sub. You could also sum the two inputs and send that signal to a single sub with whatever crossover you want.


With my system I end up with a left and right channel that plays flat from 18 hz to 20khz. I am considering doing the upgrade to dirac but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.
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post #4654 of 4714 Old 11-05-2019, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WayneJoy View Post
@AustinJerry


I have the left signal going into input 1 which goes to output one with a highpass filter at 80hz which goes to an amp and my left speaker. Output 2 gets the left input 1 signal with a low pass filter at 80hz and goes to my left sub. Input 2 gets the right signal with the same as above going to the right speaker and right sub. You could also sum the two inputs and send that signal to a single sub with whatever crossover you want.


With my system I end up with a left and right channel that plays flat from 18 hz to 20khz. I am considering doing the upgrade to dirac but I haven't pulled the trigger yet.
Thanks for clarifying.
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post #4655 of 4714 Old 11-06-2019, 08:22 AM
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Finally purchased miniDSP 2x4HD, Umik, WIFI adapter all that. But I had no idea is was direct from Hong Kong until I saw my order confirmation. Has anyone else from USA purchased direct? Any issues with receiving it? I am not worried about transit time. More so if there is any added cost receiving it or if it will be delivered to my address like any other package. Thanks.
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post #4656 of 4714 Old 11-06-2019, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bur05XP View Post
Finally purchased miniDSP 2x4HD, Umik, WIFI adapter all that. But I had no idea is was direct from Hong Kong until I saw my order confirmation. Has anyone else from USA purchased direct? Any issues with receiving it? I am not worried about transit time. More so if there is any added cost receiving it or if it will be delivered to my address like any other package. Thanks.


No issues, and showed up super fast. I was really surprised by the transit time.
Chris


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post #4657 of 4714 Old 11-06-2019, 08:29 AM
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No issues, and showed up super fast. I was really surprised by the transit time.
Chris


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Thanks, makes me feel a lot better. Definitely an 'Oh $***" moment.
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post #4658 of 4714 Old 11-06-2019, 08:31 AM
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When you connect to the MiniDSP 2x4HD _without_ having loaded the preset file on your laptop first, the software asks you to overwrite whatever is on the MiniDSP.


What if I don't know what profile was last loaded to the MiniDSP, but I do not want to erase what is currently on it? Does anyone have a solution to this?

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post #4659 of 4714 Old 11-06-2019, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fackamato View Post
When you connect to the MiniDSP 2x4HD _without_ having loaded the preset file on your laptop first, the software asks you to overwrite whatever is on the MiniDSP.


What if I don't know what profile was last loaded to the MiniDSP, but I do not want to erase what is currently on it? Does anyone have a solution to this?
Simply respond with "no" to keep what is currently in the 2x4.
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post #4660 of 4714 Old 11-06-2019, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bur05XP View Post
Finally purchased miniDSP 2x4HD, Umik, WIFI adapter all that. But I had no idea is was direct from Hong Kong until I saw my order confirmation. Has anyone else from USA purchased direct? Any issues with receiving it? I am not worried about transit time. More so if there is any added cost receiving it or if it will be delivered to my address like any other package. Thanks.
I also ordered direct...no issues at all and showed up a lot faster than I was expecting.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fackamato View Post
When you connect to the MiniDSP 2x4HD _without_ having loaded the preset file on your laptop first, the software asks you to overwrite whatever is on the MiniDSP.


What if I don't know what profile was last loaded to the MiniDSP, but I do not want to erase what is currently on it? Does anyone have a solution to this?

Nope. You need to know which MiniDSP config you last loaded or saved, no way around it.
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post #4661 of 4714 Old 11-06-2019, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Simply respond with "no" to keep what is currently in the 2x4.
Not sure about the 2x4, but on the HD the only options are "Synchronize Config" (loads the current offline config) and "Restore Config" (restores to factory defaults).
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post #4662 of 4714 Old 11-07-2019, 05:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Not sure about the 2x4, but on the HD the only options are "Synchronize Config" (loads the current offline config) and "Restore Config" (restores to factory defaults).
Yeah, this. It's unfortunate.

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post #4663 of 4714 Old 11-08-2019, 07:54 AM
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Well I purchased the standard 2x4 unbalanced. Thanks to all for their input when making my desicion.

So far I'm very impressed. I have time aligned, done phase and gain matched as suggested in jerry's guide.
I'm now playing with eq.
Couple of questions. Do I eq them individually, in pairs, or all 4 maybe a combination?
Second question. When I enter a generated rew eq file into slot 1 it copy's the formula to all slots. I have to remove the others manually. Is there a setting I'm not finding that can eliminate this from happening.
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post #4664 of 4714 Old 11-08-2019, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich 63 View Post
Well I purchased the standard 2x4 unbalanced. Thanks to all for their input when making my desicion.

So far I'm very impressed. I have time aligned, done phase and gain matched as suggested in jerry's guide.
I'm now playing with eq.
Couple of questions. Do I eq them individually, in pairs, or all 4 maybe a combination?
Second question. When I enter a generated rew eq file into slot 1 it copy's the formula to all slots. I have to remove the others manually. Is there a setting I'm not finding that can eliminate this from happening.
You want to apply PEQ to the combined sub signal. Measure all four subs with REW and use the measurement as input to the EQ tool. Generate the PEQ filters and import them on the input side of the 2x4 plug-in, not the individual outputs.

In some recent testing, I measured the combined sub response after time-aligning the subs, and compared it with no time alignment. The difference was not much, and I actually preferred the response without time time alignment. Same goes for polarity. My two rear subs show opposite polarity from the front two, but measurements show that leaving this polarity mismatch in place produces significantly better results. There is a recent discussion in the REW thread starting with the link shown below, with respected AVS member Sdurani providing very good recommendations.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...l#post58770660

I plan on updating my guides recommending that everyone measure all options before automatically implementing time alignment and polarity matching.
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post #4665 of 4714 Old 11-08-2019, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich 63 View Post
Second question. When I enter a generated rew eq file into slot 1 it copy's the formula to all slots. I have to remove the others manually. Is there a setting I'm not finding that can eliminate this from happening.
Jerry gave you a very good answer to your first question, so I will take a stab at this second one.

When you say "slot" do you mean Config or do you mean the EQ filter slots under "PEQ" (EQ1, EQ2, etc)?

When you generate the EQ filters in REW typically you end up with multiple PEQ filters. When you generate the .txt file and import it into the MiniDSP, those multiple filters will be imported into separate filter slots.

If it is importing to multiple Configs, that is not expected behavior. Before you generate the EQ in REW, did you select MiniDSP under "Equaliser" in the REW EQ panel?
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post #4666 of 4714 Old 11-08-2019, 10:21 AM
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Thanks for the reply Jerry. I did have before and after graphs for time alignment but inadvertently deleted them when cleaning up the file. They showed improved response. I'm going to run them again since it's not hard to back out.
As for my second question.
I have done a 4 sub combined measurement then had rew run eq. It produced a result that has 3 filters in the formula. When I enter this into the input side of dsp there are 6 slots. I highlite the first slot, hi_lite advanced, hit enter but end up with it adding to all 6 slots. My feeling is that the rew filter that was created is loading the same filter into each slot. Am I missing something?
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post #4667 of 4714 Old 11-08-2019, 10:29 AM
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Btw as to phase I ended up leaving all subs in matched phase. In an attempt to get comfortable with rew, I tried all kinds of different phase combos using the dsp and my sub phase controls. Measurement said leave it alone.
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post #4668 of 4714 Old 11-08-2019, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich 63 View Post
Btw as to phase I ended up leaving all subs in matched phase. In an attempt to get comfortable with rew, I tried all kinds of different phase combos using the dsp and my sub phase controls. Measurement said leave it alone.
I was talking about polarity, not phase.
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post #4669 of 4714 Old 11-08-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich 63 View Post
Thanks for the reply Jerry. I did have before and after graphs for time alignment but inadvertently deleted them when cleaning up the file. They showed improved response. I'm going to run them again since it's not hard to back out.
As for my second question.
I have done a 4 sub combined measurement then had rew run eq. It produced a result that has 3 filters in the formula. When I enter this into the input side of dsp there are 6 slots. I highlite the first slot, hi_lite advanced, hit enter but end up with it adding to all 6 slots. My feeling is that the rew filter that was created is loading the same filter into each slot. Am I missing something?
Not understanding. When I create PEQ in REW, I export the filter coefficients as a single text file, and then import the text file into the "Parametric EQ" tab on the 2x4, which applies the PEQ to all four output channels.

Help me understand where you are doing something differently.
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post #4670 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 06:23 AM
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@AustinJerry

In the guide, section 1, below: you say,

"3. In the AVR, set the subwoofer trim to zero.

4. Output the sub channel level-setting test tone. "

But, what AVR, MASTER VOLUME?

I don't think it matters here; but it does effect the EQing sequence latter on.. Can you comment?

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post #4671 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 07:22 AM
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Your AVR probably has a settings menu that allows you to change the distance and level of each of the speakers. It's THAT setting (level) for the sub that should be at zero.
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post #4672 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck666 View Post
@AustinJerry

In the guide, section 1, below: you say,

"3. In the AVR, set the subwoofer trim to zero.

4. Output the sub channel level-setting test tone. "

But, what AVR, MASTER VOLUME?

I don't think it matters here; but it does effect the EQing sequence latter on.. Can you comment?
You are correct--for the gain-matching step, the AVR master volume setting doesn't really matter, as long as the same MV setting is used for each subwoofer. However, typically when outputting AVR level-setting test tones, the AVR MV would be set to zero.

When you are generating PEQ filters in REW, there is a step "Calculate target level from response", which will adjust the target level regardless of the AVR MV level used for the measurement.
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post #4673 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 02:04 PM
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This is exactly what I've been talking about. I hate REW. Once again, for the third time on a third CPU, I've reached page 34 of AustinJerry's guide and cannot get any further. This is just f***ing ridiculous. Nothing goes as indicated as soon as I get to the REW portion of his guide. I dont see "display audio output" neither does the arrow come up for ASIO section. I'm tired of this foolishness.
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post #4674 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post
This is exactly what I've been talking about. I hate REW. Once again, for the third time on a third CPU, I've reached page 34 of AustinJerry's guide and cannot get any further. This is just f***ing ridiculous. Nothing goes as indicated as soon as I get to the REW portion of his guide. I dont see "display audio output" neither does the arrow come up for ASIO section. I'm tired of this foolishness.
Many of us are using REW without these issues. Could it be you that is not following or understanding the instructions correctly? There are people in the REW thread who would be willing to help you get started properly. You just need to give it a chance. Post screenshots of what you are seeing, and be specific about which steps are causing you problems.
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post #4675 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post
neither does the arrow come up for ASIO section.
This is often the problem, and diagnosing problems with ASIO is a crapshoot.
Make sure you have the latest version. Reboot until it loads. Don't even start REW until ASIO is showing up properly.
There was an alternative to ASIO4ALL, but I don't know if it will work any better for you (and I don't remember what it was called ).
I doubt the problem is with REW.
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post #4676 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 05:21 PM
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So I've finally gotten this to work after hours and hours (you guys dont even want to know what the issue was) but now, my REW readings are in the 40db range. Could anyone assist in what to do to get it where it's supposed to be?
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post #4677 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 05:59 PM
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So I've finally gotten this to work after hours and hours (you guys dont even want to know what the issue was) but now, my REW readings are in the 40db range. Could anyone assist in what to do to get it where it's supposed to be?
Turn up the AVR master volume.
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post #4678 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 06:07 PM
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That wasn't the issue. I dont know what I can say but there just seems like something is off and fiddling with it over and over seems to solve the issues. Anyway, seems like I'm at the correct level now. I will see what happens from here.
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post #4679 of 4714 Old 11-09-2019, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimwyn View Post
That wasn't the issue. I dont know what I can say but there just seems like something is off and fiddling with it over and over seems to solve the issues. Anyway, seems like I'm at the correct level now. I will see what happens from here.
That doesn’t sound very encouraging. Unless you understand what was wrong, you won’t make much forward progress. Unfortunately, you haven’t shared enough information for us to provide any guidance.
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post #4680 of 4714 Old 11-10-2019, 03:28 PM
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Ok, so first let me say thanks for putting up with my ignorance for such a long bit. I really appreciate that. I think I've finally gotten to the measuring part of REW but I believe there is something still off. Below are two screenshots of what i am getting.

In one, you can see that when measuring my sub range, the level recorded is 91db. I know that that 91db is the correct reading because all my other individual speakers all measure between 75 and 76db which coincidentally has been set by MCACC which has always put my speakers at 75db. My issue though, comes when using the SPL meter, when playing the test tone for the sub, the meter only registers 63db while the test registers 91db. Can anyone tell me what is the issue here? Why am I getting two different readings?

What's worse is that I used the same mic to gain match my dual subs, and when the REW meter was showing 77db is when I stopped which is why I believe the test has a measured spl of 91db. Can anyone help me?
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