Danley DIY Synergy Horn kit - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 519 Old 03-29-2011, 06:00 PM
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It also comes down to how busy the crew at Danley in NC is. I mean they cant just shut the operation down to sell a few kits. Maybe a preorder list to see how many kits they could sell.
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post #152 of 519 Old 03-29-2011, 06:01 PM
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yeah, can hardly wait to see what Tom has cooked up for us this time

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post #153 of 519 Old 03-29-2011, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kutlow View Post

Maybe a preorder list to see how many kits they could sell.

Iam wondering myself how the Danley crew is going to gauge interest on this topic
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post #154 of 519 Old 03-29-2011, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Great questions...

It might help if it we knew where the decision making process was and what the option may or may not be.

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post #155 of 519 Old 03-29-2011, 06:52 PM
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I heard from a well informed source what it will be. hahaha
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post #156 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 07:02 AM
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I have to say Iam somewhat surprised by the Danley crew even entertaining the thought of this kit.

A speaker kit of their bigger wood horn has been requested several times, specially since the intro of the DTS 10, now all of a sudden we may potentially have a real tangible product in the making. And it all started with this thread.

Its nice to see companies listening to their customers and delivering, even though the DIY market and Home Theater croud is not their usual market.
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post #157 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 07:49 AM
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I am a bit surprised that they are entertaining us as well. Consider me interested. I'd even be happy with a kit version of the SM-60x series that could be finished in a non-pro-audio look.

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post #158 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 08:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post

I am a bit surprised that they are entertaining us as well. Consider me interested. I'd even be happy with a kit version of the SM-60x series that could be finished in a non-pro-audio look.

That would be sweet.
It would be a breeze to make custom stands that go well with that from factor.

Hopefully, we will learn something soon enough.

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post #159 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post

I'd even be happy with a kit version of the SM-60x series that could be finished in a non-pro-audio look.

Change that "even be" to "be especially" for me, and +1.

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Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post

[SM60x- or similar new design] would be sweet.
It would be a breeze to make custom stands that go well with that from factor.

Hopefully, we will learn something soon enough.

Or just mount 'em in a horizontal line on the front wall. One in or near each front corner, and one above the TV/behind the screen.

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post #160 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 09:17 AM
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Depending upon what is being considered (SH-50, SM-60x), I may be interested too.
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post #161 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 09:43 AM
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All write Hi guys I registered I want it . I want it now. Who do I have kill?
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post #162 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 09:47 AM
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Yes sh50 will do. Personally I wouldn't of called it sh50. I sure these used to be diy once. Like 7 years ago. And couldn't afford it then. I would just need the plans the wood cut and the mid drivers and crossovers.I have lots of compression drivers.A flat pack would ship ship cheap. I cant see how the DIY market would cut into the pro market.
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post #163 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 12:11 PM
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Another route DSL could follow is to offer their HT level gear (SM60, etc.) at a discount in either package form (5/7 speakers) or as part of a "group buy", limited time only. This would be a wonderful solution for those with less DIY skills. It would certainly help getting the company name, and what they do, known to a much bigger audience.

I remember several SVS group buys in my own country, with many enthousiasts discovering there's more out there than our local stores. Entry fees will be somewhat higher though I'm sure. But then again high-definition audio + video have penetrated many more homes, allowing a much easier reward for the investment.

Personally I'm looking for something like the SH50's or the SM60's, with excellent stereo and HT properties, either as a kit or as part of a package or group buy.
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post #164 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 12:11 PM
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how about a 75 degree synergy horn kit good to 300hz with a suggestion/plan(s) for a woofer(s) to carry the mid-bass? ;-) this could be done with a single coax driver (low cost). if crossed in that low, folks could put the woofer(s) beside the horn for those who need a center channel under their screen without getting too much off axis combing, right? maybe a budget woofer option and a performance woofer(s) option. home rooms don't need the massive top end power found in the pro line because high frequencies attenuate with distance much faster than low frequencies.

also, what do you suggest for flattening out all the ripple in the frequency response? not to spend too much time with a competitor, but toole and co. did an enormous amount of research and concluded that flat frequency response (and smooth power response) was pretty much the single most important factor relating to subjective listener scores. you have peaks and dips all over the place, but folks report good sound. is there a way to make good sound -> better sound with some eq, or does monkeying around with e.q. mess up the goodness? i could see how adding a whole bunch of filters may be worse, particularly in the time domain, than just going raw.

...

"Let me know what you think"

the harley wavefile is very interesting.

the left/right stereo is obviously very good. something is right about that.

there was also a weird effect. the motorcycle seemed to be jumping back and forth from being in front of me to being behind me. it was giving me an audio version of vertigo. i listened to it several times and kept experiencing the same effect. something is very wrong about that.

...

"FWIW, Usually the BMS coax mf/hf crossover in that driver is more like 6-8KHz not 1700Hz."

right. 1700hz is where qsc crosses from the bms coax to their midrange horn.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #165 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 07:14 PM
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I'm very interested if we could get a pack of these badboys going. I'd love to try them out against my Triple 12's. I could stack them on a Mal-x 18" each. That would look sweet up front!!!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #166 of 519 Old 03-30-2011, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
how about a 75 degree synergy horn kit good to 300hz
Sounding a lot like a Unity Horn except it's 60 degrees

explore the music
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post #167 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antripodean View Post

Sounding a lot like a Unity Horn except it's 60 degrees

That would work well for me. I have copies of the original Unity bass bins with Lambda drivers. I made mine myself but when I modeled them (AE TD15X + 2 PR-1400s) my box came out the same as the old bass bins.

That's also the reason why I am so tempted by the SM-60M. I don't need response all the way down to 80hz, the 270hz corner is fine. Plus, I don't think the mouth size is full size for a 80hz corner, but is for 270hz. I prefer to keep mouth sizes full sized.

(mouth circumference should be equal to the wavelength of the low corner for full size).

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post #168 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post

Plus, I don't think the mouth size is full size for a 80hz corner, but is for 270hz. I prefer to keep mouth sizes full sized.

What difference does it make?

Unless you have something more than 4' across, you're not going to have directivity at 80 Hz in any case.

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post #169 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 08:51 AM
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Can't say I have a good grasp on how horns work, but the below which I posted in the Subwoofers forum may be helpful to some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

That said, I still am unclear as to how this translates to a more idealized response smoothing in multiples.

A horn that is less than its ideal size has ripples in its response, and Tom has explained that this was a design choice to keep the DTS-10's size within reason.

Putting it near boundaries increases the effective size of the horn, making it closer to its ideal size and smoothing its response.

Direct radiator drivers don't "see" the air in the room at all; their motion is purely a function of the mass of the diaphragm, the stiffness of the air in the box, and the box damping.

Move the box around in the room and acoustics may change the response, but the motion of the driver is the same. [I'm a little iffy on this point; Tom? I guess this would be verified if there's no change in the impedance curve at different locations]]

OTOH a horn is an impedance transformer that couples the driver to the air in the horn and the room, so the driver does "feel" changes in it, and *does* affect the motion of the driver for a given input.

Noah
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post #170 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 08:57 AM
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"Can't say I have a good grasp on how horns work"

try to fan yourself with your hand. then try to fan your self with a magazine.

a compression driver without a horn is like your hand (extremely strong, but not at all coupled to the air). a driver mounted on a horn is like the magazine.

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post #171 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

What difference does it make?

Unless you have something more than 4' across, you're not going to have directivity at 80 Hz in any case.

Has to do with reflections. If you use a given horn below its full size corner you create a lot more mouth reflections which can lead to more horn honk, etc.

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post #172 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Can't say I have a good grasp on how horns work"

try to fan yourself with your hand. then try to fan your self with a magazine.

a compression driver without a horn is like your hand (extremely strong, but not at all coupled to the air). a driver mounted on a horn is like the magazine.

I like that analogy.

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post #173 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Can't say I have a good grasp on how horns work"

try to fan yourself with your hand. then try to fan your self with a magazine.

a compression driver without a horn is like your hand (extremely strong, but not at all coupled to the air). a driver mounted on a horn is like the magazine.

I know, but how exactly does a horn transform a hand into a magazine?

Noah
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post #174 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioJosh View Post

Has to do with reflections. If you use a given horn below its full size corner you create a lot more mouth reflections which can lead to more horn honk, etc.

I don't get it; reflections are more of an issue when dimensions become large compared to a wavelength, which would be exacerbated by a larger mouth.

Noah
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post #175 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

I know, but how exactly does a horn transform a hand into a magazine?

It cuts it off the hand and glues the magazine to the stump.

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post #176 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 12:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Seriously, I assume it provides a means to 'couple' the surrounding air to the driver via its shape and fluid properties of air.

OK, I tried.

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post #177 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 12:40 PM
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"I know, but how exactly does a horn transform a hand into a magazine?"

when you place all the molecules into a horn pattern, they are not free to scatter as they do in free air.

in free air, as soon as you move the first molecule, it is free to go anywhere and so it does.

in a horn, as soon as you move the first molecule, all it can do is move the adjacent molecule or two toward the horn mouth. then those molecules can only move the one or two next to them, again closer to the mouth. then those molecules can only move the one or two next to them, again closer to the mouth. and so on.

the result is that you end up moving a very large plane of molecules at the horn mouth.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #178 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 01:01 PM
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That's all true for a direct radiator except for the molecules near the wall.

And it's also true for a short flared tube put in front of the driver, which also has a wall, and the impedance transformation doesn't happen, or at least not at all frequencies.

Noah
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post #179 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 01:29 PM
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i'm with you on the molecules along the walls, but that is another topic.

what do you mean that impedance transformation does not occur with a short flared tube in front of the c.d.?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #180 of 519 Old 03-31-2011, 02:01 PM
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I think Wikipedia does a pretty decent job summarizing this stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia View Post


Acoustic horns convert large pressure variations with a small displacement area into a low pressure variation with a large displacement area and vice versa. It does this through the gradual, often exponential increase of the cross sectional area of the horn. The small cross-sectional area of the throat restricts the passage of air thus presenting a high impedance to the driver. This allows the driver to develop a high pressure for a given displacement. Therefore the sound waves at the throat are of high pressure and low displacement. The tapered shape of the horn allows the sound waves to gradually decompress and increase in displacement until they reach the mouth where they are of a low pressure but large displacement.

That seems to adequately explain both the basic mechanism of acoustic impedance matching, and the reason you need a horn that tapers from small to large.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horn_loudspeaker
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