Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 206 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6151 of 6850 Old 06-03-2018, 08:56 PM
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How can you tell?

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post #6152 of 6850 Old 06-03-2018, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
How can you tell?
Motherboard traces. It's like a digital fingerprint. Each manufacturer seems to have vastly different traces. This is the only one I could find that matches it. It's gotta be XBS Audio.
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post #6153 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 03:57 AM
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Motherboard traces. It's like a digital fingerprint. Each manufacturer seems to have vastly different traces. This is the only one I could find that matches it. It's gotta be XBS Audio.
Dude, you have a keen eye I've never heard of XBS Audio. What does your Sanway fp14k measure at? I feel my HS24s have a lot more to offer than being produced by my fp10k, which is why I'm in the market for another amp.

*Edit* Below is a reply I've received from Carrie from Sanway in regards to having a FP20000q:

"We do not produce FP20000Q , yet. Its power supply part is a big challenge. We do know there is other supplier provide FP20000Q. But they only add more capacitors inside and make the amplifier board longer. They are not stable on 2 ohms."

This sounds like the concern Notnyt mentioned about the power supply earlier. Does anyone know if the 220v Sanway's fp14k are more efficient than there 120v version? At $847 shipped, along with being able to use paypal, I just may order a fp14k from Sanway.

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post #6154 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 05:30 AM
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I dont know how yall are still not tripping 30 breakers. On my older sanways on sustained bass notes it would easily chip a 30. They newer ones cruise just fine with better efficiency. Maybe I can upload a track for you guys to test out on your home systems and let me know what you think..
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post #6155 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 05:56 AM
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They newer ones cruise just fine with better efficiency.
So do you have an older or newer one listed in the classifieds?

@notnyt - Cassie at Smiths said the following in response to being asked to match Sanways fp14k price:

"Sanway is normal version.could you compare difference On capacitor/power supply/heating sink?"
Would you agree with this statement in your dealings with both companys?

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post #6156 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by tential View Post
I don't see any warranty information on the Bortec Labs. Unless I missed it, I'd assume it's just like ordering from China then, only with a US based seller. You can add a warranty with Square Protection on ebay though.
It would make sense if they offered a warranty (Which I may have missed), but without a warranty offer, the only difference is one seller is in China, and one seller is in the US, ordering that unit from China, and then selling it to you.
FP14K Clone Ebay Warranty

The above link claims a 3 year warranty. Wish that was around when I bought my clones back in the day...

With the buyer protection ebay has in place, I would jump on this deal if I needed more power. Seems hard to beat for the price, assuming it performs as other FP14K clones have tested in the past.
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post #6157 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
So do you have an older or newer one listed in the classifieds?
Older i had 4 and only have one left. Still plays great but too much draws power for what i use it for..

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post #6158 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 07:31 AM
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I got Cassie at Smiths down to $820 shipped for a fp14k, but all communications have stopped when I asked what will happen if the amp arrives DOA.

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post #6159 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 08:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
So do you have an older or newer one listed in the classifieds?

@notnyt - Cassie at Smiths said the following in response to being asked to match Sanways fp14k price:

"Sanway is normal version.could you compare difference On capacitor/power supply/heating sink?"
Would you agree with this statement in your dealings with both companys?
smiths is the enhanced version, covered this. it'll put out a little more power than the sanway for a short period.
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post #6160 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 08:29 AM
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As i said a year ago in this thread:
There are two power supplies in the 20k, it's "almost" two FP14K's, the limit will be fuses / breaker / cord.

My 10k is 2-ohm stable, as is my 14k. I think the 20k would be too (it will thermal fast because of the 2x density).

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post #6161 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 09:00 AM
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The 24's need lots of power. Steve Meade put 20kW RMS on 2 24's on his YT 3 months ago. They drink power.

The Sundown and SI's use 4"VC, the SAB-24 is 5"VC about 50% more metal... both on and surrounding it. Just sayin'

A FP10k isn't enough.

A bridged FP14k is 7x the power or ~2.2x more excursion.

A bridged FP20k is 5x power or 1.9x more excursion.
Unbridged driving 4 24's is 2x power or 1.4x excursion.
*assuming nothing explodes

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post #6162 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 04:47 PM
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XBS Audio just replied to a comment on that video about the fuse values. Couldn't understand a word that was said with the broken English, but it seems like it may contain "1" or "2" 30A fuses. i.e. we are clear as mud now... LOL!

So best be ordering the 240V version because then it will be 30A 240V and not 30A 120V i.e. double the power handling of the FP14k fuse!
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post #6163 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
So best be ordering the 240V version because then it will be 30A 240V and not 30A 120V i.e. double the power handling of the FP14k fuse!
On the post above you stated the a bridged FP20k was 5x the power while a bridged FP14k was 7 time the power.

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post #6164 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
XBS Audio just replied to a comment on that video about the fuse values. Couldn't understand a word that was said with the broken English, but it seems like it may contain "1" or "2" 30A fuses. i.e. we are clear as mud now... LOL!

So best be ordering the 240V version because then it will be 30A 240V and not 30A 120V i.e. double the power handling of the FP14k fuse!
So, where do you see that the 240v versions are fused at 30a?

What wall plug are they using?

You know the PLM20000Q from actual LG is still 16a at 240v, right?






They also only use 25ms for their burst power ratings

These are not exactly efficient either.

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post #6165 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 05:49 PM
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On the post above you stated the a bridged FP20k was 5x the power while a bridged FP14k was 7 time the power.
Yes.... It is simple Grade 2 math!

FP10k 1 of 4 [email protected] unbridged (1x)
FP10k 1 of 2 [email protected] bridged (2.4x)

FP20k 1 of 4 [email protected] unbridged (1.9x)
FP20k 1 of 2 [email protected] bridged (4.8x)

FP14k 1 of 2 [email protected] unbridged (2.1x)
FP14k 1 of 1 [email protected] bridged (6.7x)

and a 240V 30A fuse is 2x a 120V 30A fuse...
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post #6166 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Yes.... It is simple Grade 2 math!

FP10k 1 of 4 [email protected] unbridged (1x)
FP10k 1 of 2 [email protected] bridged (2.4x)

FP20k 1 of 4 [email protected] unbridged (1.9x)
FP20k 1 of 2 [email protected] bridged (4.8x)

FP14k 1 of 2 [email protected] unbridged (2.1x)
FP14k 1 of 1 [email protected] bridged (6.7x)

and a 240V 30A fuse is 2x a 120V 30A fuse...
You're assuming a 30a fuse at 240v. That's not the case with the real labs, and unlikely with these clone as well.

Also, you're kind of pulling power numbers out of your nethers for the fp20k.
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post #6167 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
So, where do you see that the 240v versions are fused at 30a?
What wall plug are they using?
You know the PLM20000Q from actual LG is still 16a at 240v, right?
That's what XBS Audio said in the YT comments of that video, it is there for all to read...

and that's only *IF* I understood their broken-English correctly.

That's a BIG if, because they can't seem to speak it clearly, and maybe I misunderstood what they were trying to tell us.
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post #6168 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 06:19 PM
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Also, you're kind of pulling power numbers out of your nethers for the fp20k.
Nobody knows the real bridged values for the fp20k clone.

But the Gruppen 20k does 4x [email protected] and thus 2x [email protected] bridged (so a little higher than a TRUE 4-ohms...) Still 20kW, hence it's name, and it's sort of splitting hairs.

Even if the clone could only do 3.8kW x 4 and 7.6kW x 2, that's still lots for most people...

and that's about all it probably will do based off the test in that video, and that's being optimistic at that...

and it will only do it for like 0.1-1.0 seconds anyway, and then it will drop down just like the FP14k does, nothing new to see here...

If you need more than 3.8kW x4 in 2RU then buy 2 PowerSoft X8's or at least 2 PowerSoft K20's.

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post #6169 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Nobody knows the real bridged values for the fp20k clone.
That's my point

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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

But the Gruppen 20k does 4x [email protected] and thus 2x [email protected] bridged (so a little higher than a TRUE 4-ohms...) Still 20kW, hence it's name, and it's sort of splitting hairs.
For 25ms. That's a single cycle at 40hz. It's not comparable to other numbers discussed in the thread

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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

Even if the clone could only do 3.8kW x 4 and 7.6kW x 2, that's still lots for most people...

and that's about all it probably will do based off the test in that video, and that's being optimistic at that...

and it will only do it for like 0.1-1.0 seconds anyway, and then it will drop down just like the FP14k does, nothing new to see here...
Keep in mind the 20Q has less capacitance, thus less burst potential.
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post #6170 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Keep in mind the 20Q has less capacitance, thus less burst potential.
It also has less transistors and a shared power cord / fuse and 2x the heat in the same box.

It's definitely less powerful / robust than 2 FP14k's... but it's also like: half the price and size and still better power than a fp10k (assuming it works on all 4 channels, stably...)

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post #6171 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Yes.... It is simple Grade 2 math!

FP10k 1 of 4 [email protected] unbridged (1x)
FP10k 1 of 2 [email protected] bridged (2.4x)

FP20k 1 of 4 [email protected] unbridged (1.9x)
FP20k 1 of 2 [email protected] bridged (4.8x)

FP14k 1 of 2 [email protected] unbridged (2.1x)
FP14k 1 of 1 [email protected] bridged (6.7x)

and a 240V 30A fuse is 2x a 120V 30A fuse...
Ok I see what you meant. Damn grade 1 math education

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post #6172 of 6850 Old 06-04-2018, 07:38 PM
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Since note: This is the cheapest FP20K I've seen.
Heh. That seller carries an ... interesting ... selection of items in their store.
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Heh. That seller carries an ... interesting ... selection of items in their store.
Lol I had to go look after you posted. Actually laughed out loud.

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post #6174 of 6850 Old 06-05-2018, 05:36 PM
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Heh. That seller carries an ... interesting ... selection of items in their store.
All products appear to be targeted for heavy industrial use. Maybe it's my lifestyle choices, but didn't find anything out of the ordinary.
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post #6175 of 6850 Old 06-05-2018, 10:08 PM
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FWIW, a couple months ago, I bought a Sanway DP-10Q - effectively an FP10000Q with a "touch screen" and DSP - ostensibly for my bass guitar rig, but it's ridiculously overpowered for that use.

I've run a bunch of tests on it which I'll be happy to share. Should they go in this thread? Or in a new thread somewhere else?
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post #6176 of 6850 Old 06-05-2018, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SVChucko View Post
FWIW, a couple months ago, I bought a Sanway DP-10Q - effectively an FP10000Q with a "touch screen" and DSP - ostensibly for my bass guitar rig, but it's ridiculously overpowered for that use.

I've run a bunch of tests on it which I'll be happy to share. Should they go in this thread? Or in a new thread somewhere else?
This thread would be fine. Or here

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post #6177 of 6850 Old 06-05-2018, 10:24 PM
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This thread would be fine.
Thanks. The Measuring Amplifiers thread seems best.

I have a couple more posts to make before I can upload. I had to edit out the link to the other thread!
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post #6178 of 6850 Old 06-05-2018, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by SVChucko View Post
FWIW, a couple months ago, I bought a Sanway DP-10Q - effectively an FP10000Q with a "touch screen" and DSP - ostensibly for my bass guitar rig, but it's ridiculously overpowered for that use.

I've run a bunch of tests on it which I'll be happy to share. Should they go in this thread? Or in a new thread somewhere else?
Lol, both threads actually
Thanks!
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post #6179 of 6850 Old 06-16-2018, 02:47 AM
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Hi guys. Been reading with great interest lately in different clone threads, and i am pondering if one of these might be in my future.

Short backstory.

First of all, i am from Norway, so we have 220V power here.

Ok, so today i have 4x SI18HT DVC 2ohm in 2 sonosubs dual opposed as farfield subs, powered by 2x NU6K’s. 4 ohm pr channel.
Nearfield is 12x12" JBL CS1214 4ohm powered by 1 NU6K, in series/parallel for a 6ohm load pr channel.
4x Crowson MA’s powered by 1NU6K in 4ohm pr channel

So a total of 4x NU6K run in 4 and 6 ohm. I run two on each 13 amp breaker, and today that works fine.

So the question is: with the drivers i have and the power avaliable, would any of these clones be a upgrade?

I guess the limiting factor is the 13 amp breaker on 220 volts, but i think a upgrade to 16 amp could be done.

Dual Atmos Receivers - Atmos 13.1.8/DTS X 9.1.8/Auro 3D 13.1 - Denon AVCX8500H+AVRX7200WA - Klipsch+KEF - 6xSI18" - 8xJBL 12" BOSS - 4xJBL 12" w/SLAPS M12" VNF - 3x2 stacked Crowson MA - 4xBK-LFE - 6xNU6K(fan&trig mod) - Minidsp 10x10HD - Oppo UDP203 - XBox OneX - Apple TV4K - JVC RS600 Dreamscreen V2 120"- Philips 65OLED873.
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post #6180 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
So the question is: with the drivers i have and the power avaliable, would any of these clones be a upgrade?

I guess the limiting factor is the 13 amp breaker on 220 volts, but i think a upgrade to 16 amp could be done.
You could replace 2 nu6k's with 1 fp20k, but your breaker is too small for the fp20k. It needs 30a @ 240V per (it's fused at that.) You'd have to keep the power below the -4db LED x4 to prevent the [email protected] breaker from tripping. That's the most economical path.

The 14k is roughly half that A-rms, but also half the channels...

As per NotNyt the FP's are more powerful than inuke's. Especially dual 14k's or the 20k.

If you find yourself clipping the inuke's often, then the FP's will help solve that.
If you aren't clipping them, then you don't need beefier amps...

Of course with beefier amps, the breakers will be strained more, as will the subs coils. The power draw depends on how high you crank them. On 240V they go from 0.5-1A rms @ idle, all the way up to XYZ @ full power.
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Last edited by BassThatHz; 06-17-2018 at 01:36 AM.
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