Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 207 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6181 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
You could replace 2 nu6k's with 1 fp20k, but your breaker is too small for the fp20k. It needs 30a @ 240V per (it's fused at that.) You'd have to keep the power below the -4db LED x4 to prevent the [email protected] breaker from tripping. That's the most economical path.

The 14k is roughly half that A-rms, but also half the channels...

As per NotNyt the FP's are more powerful than inuke's. Especially dual 14k's or the 20k.

If you find yourself clipping the inuke's often, then the FP's will help solve that.
If you aren't clipping them, then you don't need beefier amps...

Of course with beefier amps, the breakers will be strained more, as will the subs coils. The power draw depends on how high you crank them. On 240V they go from 0.5-1A rms @ idle, all the way up to XYZ @ full power.
you actually checked the fuse ratings or you just guessing there?
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post #6182 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 02:08 AM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
you actually checked the fuse ratings or you just guessing there?
The fp20k's are substantially different than the Gruppen PLM's.
China has managed to stuff two fp14k's into one box, minus a few caps and a few transistors.

The clone 20k's lack all the fancy PFC and current-limiting technology of the Gruppen's, the Gruppens are "smart" but the clones are basically "dumb iron beasts". They draw nearly double the current of the fp14k with the peakiest-current waveform that you've ever oscoped.

I guess I'll find out when I trip my existing 30A 120V breaker with it pushing 4 LMS-18's, that's assuming the LMS's can even handle +30A rms worth of power to find out!

I'd check the values but they soldered two fuses in parallel to the holder, and I can't remove them to rotate the fuse labels. Silly china!
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post #6183 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 02:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
The fp20k's are substantially different than the Gruppen PLM's.
China has managed to stuff two fp14k's into one box, minus a few caps and a few transistors.

The clone 20k's lack all the fancy PFC and current-limiting technology of the Gruppen's, the Gruppens are "smart" but the clones are basically "dumb iron beasts". They draw nearly double the current of the fp14k with the peakiest-current waveform that you've ever oscoped.

I guess I'll find out when I trip my existing 30A 120V breaker with it pushing 4 LMS-18's, that's assuming the LMS's can even handle +30A rms worth of power to find out!

I'd check the values but they soldered two fuses in parallel to the holder, and I can't remove them to rotate the fuse labels. Silly china!
so tl;dr version, you don't know and you're guessing.

It's possible on the 240v they're using 15a fuses, and to convert to 120 they added a second.

But again, this is an unknown.
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post #6184 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
so tl;dr version, you don't know and you're guessing.

It's possible on the 240v they're using 15a fuses, and to convert to 120 they added a second.

But again, this is an unknown.
This is what they said:


Translated to English:
The 240V uses 1 30A's (hot to hot).
The 120V uses 2 30A's (hot to neutral), soldered in parallel to the fuse holder!

Each pair of amplifier boards also has a 30A fuse protecting the set.

Sounds like 60A to me.
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post #6185 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
You could replace 2 nu6k's with 1 fp20k, but your breaker is too small for the fp20k. It needs 30a @ 240V per (it's fused at that.) You'd have to keep the power below the -4db LED x4 to prevent the [email protected] breaker from tripping. That's the most economical path.

The 14k is roughly half that A-rms, but also half the channels...

As per NotNyt the FP's are more powerful than inuke's. Especially dual 14k's or the 20k.

If you find yourself clipping the inuke's often, then the FP's will help solve that.
If you aren't clipping them, then you don't need beefier amps...

Of course with beefier amps, the breakers will be strained more, as will the subs coils. The power draw depends on how high you crank them. On 240V they go from 0.5-1A rms @ idle, all the way up to XYZ @ full power.
Understood. I agree, the FP20K would probably be the economical choise, but it would put too much strain on one breaker. I was considering maybe 2 x FP14K or 2 x FP10K. That way i could use one on each braker, and split the load. I do see the clip lights on the NU6K now and then, so i guess there’s room for improvement

So one FP14K(or10K) would replace two NU6K’s on each breaker. Still a upgrade?

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post #6186 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
Understood. I agree, the FP20K would probably be the economical choise, but it would put too much strain on one breaker. I was considering maybe 2 x FP14K or 2 x FP10K. That way i could use one on each braker, and split the load. I do see the clip lights on the NU6K now and then, so i guess there’s room for improvement

So one FP14K(or10K) would replace two NU6K’s on each breaker. Still a upgrade?
Then get 2 x FP20K If not, I would steer clear of the fp10k if you have serious subs; they'll clip much sooner than either the FP14k or FP20K.

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post #6187 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 02:00 PM
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Hey @Nalleh I just picked up a FP14K clone off eBay from Bortec Labs that @popalock referenced on the last page. I had been looking at them for awhile and they had that 20% off deal and I picked one up with a 3 year warranty. Got it here but the guy sent me the model with speakon outputs instead of binding posts. So he's sending me a gift and the speakon connectors. Was really pleasant to deal with which is a rarity anymore. Anywho I was gonna see if @notnyt wanted to test it to see if the numbers are similar. If not I'll still get some graphs up once I get it all connected. My FP9K couldn't do the JBL's justice. I was easily hitting the VPL limits on the low stuff. Mostly because my cabs are small like yours. I think the 14K's would be a nice upgrade from the Inukes for you too.
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post #6188 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 03:24 PM
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......My FP9K .....
Whom did you get the FP9K from and what is it powering? Mains or subs?
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post #6189 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 04:59 PM
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Dave(Bossobass), and it's powering my subs.
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post #6190 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Madaeel View Post
Hey @Nalleh I just picked up a FP14K clone off eBay from Bortec Labs that @popalock referenced on the last page. I had been looking at them for awhile and they had that 20% off deal and I picked one up with a 3 year warranty. Got it here but the guy sent me the model with speakon outputs instead of binding posts. So he's sending me a gift and the speakon connectors. Was really pleasant to deal with which is a rarity anymore. Anywho I was gonna see if @notnyt wanted to test it to see if the numbers are similar. If not I'll still get some graphs up once I get it all connected. My FP9K couldn't do the JBL's justice. I was easily hitting the VPL limits on the low stuff. Mostly because my cabs are small like yours. I think the 14K's would be a nice upgrade from the Inukes for you too.
Sure, drop me a pm.
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post #6192 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
it would put too much strain on one breaker.
Then get 2 fp14k's.
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post #6193 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 09:16 PM
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Sure, drop me a pm.
Will do. Thx man.
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post #6194 of 6850 Old 06-17-2018, 10:23 PM
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.... it's powering my subs.
What JBL's?

I would have figured it would have easily been more than enough power for JBL's and their higher sensitivity. But I guess not.
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post #6195 of 6850 Old 06-18-2018, 07:05 AM
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SI HT18 aren't rated for much power handling. You're probably fine with the NU6000.
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post #6196 of 6850 Old 06-18-2018, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post
What JBL's?

I would have figured it would have easily been more than enough power for JBL's and their higher sensitivity. But I guess not.

He's driving 16 CS1214's in 2 cabinets, 8 drivers per cab and IIRC the cabinet dimensions work out to about 1cf per driver.

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He's driving 16 CS1214's in 2 cabinets, 8 drivers per cab and IIRC the cabinet dimensions work out to about 1cf per driver.
Oh wow. So 16 drivers not that sensitive being used on the FP9000. Makes more sense. I was thinking like 2269's or something in 2/3cuft and maybe four of them or something. So ya I see the want for a 14K.

Just so I know when it comes time to choosing the correct one which is the best option to go with regarding the FP14k?

Are we saying the Bortec is the best option when getting one or still Sanway?

I cant decide on what I am going to do yet but most likely if one sub plan(24's) dont work I may just stick with sealed anyways(BC 21's) to keep things simple. I was looking at going ported but I am running out of room. So if sealed is the answer I may FINALLY just pick up one of these clones.
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post #6198 of 6850 Old 06-18-2018, 07:39 AM
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Oh wow. So 16 drivers not that sensitive being used on the FP9000. Makes more sense. I was thinking like 2269's or something in 2/3cuft and maybe four of them or something. So ya I see the want for a 14K.

Just so I know when it comes time to choosing the correct one which is the best option to go with regarding the FP14k?

Are we saying the Bortec is the best option when getting one or still Sanway?

I cant decide on what I am going to do yet but most likely if one sub plan(24's) dont work I may just stick with sealed anyways(BC 21's) to keep things simple. I was looking at going ported but I am running out of room. So if sealed is the answer I may FINALLY just pick up one of these clones.
It seems as Bortec Labs offers a warranty of some kind and you have the benefit of Paypal buyer's protection. Sanway also offer Paypal as an option, but if something ever happens to the amp, you'd be required to do some troubleshooting along with replacing the defective part yourself. Also, Bortec is a bit more expensive than Sanway, XBS, and Smiths.

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post #6199 of 6850 Old 06-18-2018, 08:07 AM
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The question is, does the Bortec measure like the smith's or the Sanway?

Madaeel,
How the hell are you, I have not seen you around. We need to GTG again, those are good times. I did not even know about the JBL.

I ran my sealed system off both a Inuke 6k and a FP14k. The inuke would light up red pretty easily where the clone would trip my 20 amp breaker, so not even close. Clone kills it.
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post #6200 of 6850 Old 06-18-2018, 09:34 AM
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The bortec's haven't yet been measured.

Smith has more rms and sanway has more burst as per NotNyt.
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Yah that's why I asked notnyt if he minded testing one. I figure for $1k with a 3 year warranty even if the numbers aren't as good it's still a pretty good deal. Might just give(or sell) it to my brother, but I wanted to see how one measured before I even hook it up. I'm gonna pm em later and hope to ship it out tomorrow to him.

What's going on @MKtheater ? I'm always on just don't post much is all. I would like to hear those RE's....

@chrapladm yah they'd prolly be fine but the cabs are small because of space restrictions. Well that and I'm using a SEQSS to boost the low end. No way a 9K can handle that, but it was my only "extra" amp I had till I get this Bortec tested, or I might still go Speakerpower.
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Madaeel,
Good to see you here. The FP14k I had were great, flat to 3hz and lots of power. The ported XXX18 are amazing considering I only have 2 and I had 12 SI 18HTs. More low end for sure!

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post #6203 of 6850 Old 06-18-2018, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
The bortec's haven't yet been measured.

Smith has more rms and sanway has more burst as per NotNyt.
The burst difference is negligible, though.
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post #6204 of 6850 Old 06-19-2018, 02:42 AM
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Thanks for the input guys. I guess i have some thinking to do.

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post #6205 of 6850 Old 06-19-2018, 08:02 AM
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The burst difference is negligible, though.
Smiths definitely more efficient.
I used to pop breakers all the time with the Sanways.. Had to upgrade to 40amp.
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post #6206 of 6850 Old 06-19-2018, 09:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Smiths definitely more efficient.
I used to pop breakers all the time with the Sanways.. Had to upgrade to 40amp.
The old sanways were less efficient. The new ones are improved, but iirc, the smiths are better.
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post #6207 of 6850 Old 06-19-2018, 10:29 AM
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The old sanways were less efficient. The new ones are improved, but iirc, the smiths are better.
I know you have since moved on to SP, which do you prefer sonic-ally? Sometimes watts/amps doesn't tell the full story..
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post #6208 of 6850 Old 06-19-2018, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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I know you have since moved on to SP, which do you prefer sonic-ally? Sometimes watts/amps doesn't tell the full story..
Only used em as bass duty, and they sounded the same that way. The smiths is the better amp.
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Too bad you don't have a 240v setup rig. XBS seems like a real player

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post #6210 of 6850 Old 06-19-2018, 05:49 PM
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My SurgeX is rated for 20A rms, and that's what I'm gonna try and push through it with all 4 channels of the fp20k.
Then I'll be able to better ascertain what its true output potential is and efficiency.

Based on what I've seen thus far I think it should be able to do 1000w rms x4 without too much problems, maybe more... we'll see!

I may have to scale the test down to 1 channel on each power supply @ 8ohms to not exceed my SurgeX or all 4 LMS-18's, and even THAT will probably still be enough to overwhelm the subs/SurgeX. I really need my 1200A Fluke analyzer fixed. First World problems! LOL
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