Lab Gruppen FP14000 clone amplifiers - Page 229 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #6841 of 6975 Old 06-25-2019, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
Ty. Here in Germany the minimum is 11awg for 32A, but ~9AWG (6mm2) is more commonly used, especially for longer wire runs.
Why are you saying that stranded wire of the same gauge can carry higher current? If you're talking about the skinning effect, that is only relevant at higher frequencies OR when dealing with much thicker cable (at 60Hz it's starting to become relevant at roughly an inch of cable diameter iirc).
You're correct. You can get by with lesser gauge on a power cable due to the shorter length. I wouldn't worry about a 12awg cable that's 5' long for a power cord for one of these especially considering crest factor.
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post #6842 of 6975 Old 06-25-2019, 08:55 PM
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The more I think about it, I wonder if the fact the high current draw was due to being on a generator. It was a 45kVA WhispserWatt unit exclusive to audio, with the FP being the sub amp and a rack of QSC Powerlights on the HF/MF. 50' of 6/4 from the generator to the distro and direct to the amp from there.

Though the entire audio load should be well under 50% of the generators' capacity, perhaps the unit was struggling to regulate voltage which caused the amp to draw more current than usual. I did periodically check the generator and did not see any voltage swings on the meters, but it's possible there was something going on the meters weren't capable of displaying.

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-Griffin
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post #6843 of 6975 Old 06-25-2019, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rwy24R View Post
The more I think about it, I wonder if the fact the high current draw was due to being on a generator. It was a 45kVA WhispserWatt unit exclusive to audio, with the FP being the sub amp and a rack of QSC Powerlights on the HF/MF. 50' of 6/4 from the generator to the distro and direct to the amp from there.

Though the entire audio load should be well under 50% of the generators' capacity, perhaps the unit was struggling to regulate voltage which caused the amp to draw more current than usual. I did periodically check the generator and did not see any voltage swings on the meters, but it's possible there was something going on the meters weren't capable of displaying.

Thanks,
-Griffin

Not measured the power intake of the FP14k to spike at 25kva iirc. These sudden spikes can cause issues with a genny, which is why PFC amps are prefered for generator use (PFC basically irons out the power draw spikes).

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post #6844 of 6975 Old 06-26-2019, 08:51 PM
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What's the minimum impedance did you safely powered (long term) with your fp20k?

Just wondering if it can handle a B&C ipal21

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post #6845 of 6975 Old 06-26-2019, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JESAL View Post
What's the minimum impedance did you safely powered (long term) with your fp20k?

Just wondering if it can handle a B&C ipal21

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no
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post #6846 of 6975 Old 06-26-2019, 08:54 PM
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That was quick. Thanks Notnyt



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post #6847 of 6975 Old 06-30-2019, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JESAL View Post
What's the minimum impedance did you safely powered (long term) with your fp20k?
Just wondering if it can handle a B&C ipal21
If you have 4 IPAL's you might be able to series them, and power those with a single fp14k in stereo mode.
Not sure how "happy" the amp would be driving singles on each channel, or a pair on 1 side only...

In any case, if the clone dies, then you'll have to step it up to 2 or 4 of beefiest SpeakerPower amps you can afford.

From an excursion, cooling and cone-area perspective, you are much better off with 8 $200 B&C's and 2 fp20k's, than trying to power some silly $1200 0-ohm B&C if you want to "get loud". But that's just my opinion.

Heck a single 20k could power 8 B&C if they were all 8-ohm, paralleled down to quad 4-ohm if you had to.
The amount of power you can extract from 2RU these days is pretty nutty; yeah it's not unbreakable, but still...

16 B&C's and 2 20k's in 4RU... yes please!

Just keep in mind that the 14k needs 240V 15a and the 20k needs 240V 30a;
or double that for 120V...

If you need PFC (for say a genny) then you'll have to buy PowerSoft K/X or iTech's, or Gruppen PLM's.
iNukes, FP's and SpeakerPower doesn't have it.
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post #6848 of 6975 Old 06-30-2019, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
If you have 4 IPAL's you might be able to series them, and power those with a single fp14k in stereo mode.
Not sure how "happy" the amp would be driving singles on each channel, or a pair on 1 side only...

In any case, if the clone dies, then you'll have to step it up to 2 or 4 of beefiest SpeakerPower amps you can afford.

From an excursion, cooling and cone-area perspective, you are much better off with 8 $200 B&C's and 2 fp20k's, than trying to power some silly $1200 0-ohm B&C if you want to "get loud". But that's just my opinion.

IPAL is one of the best drivers for power density. If you don't have much space, this driver will make sure that you get the most out of it. Getting an IPAL driver and not being able to power it properly would make you lose almost all advantages over buying a cheaper driver like the DS115 (which is 400$ from where I can source it, compared to the IPAL at ~1000$; I am unaware of B&C 21" drivers available for 200$).



Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
If you need PFC (for say a genny) then you'll have to buy PowerSoft K/X or iTech's, or Gruppen PLM's.
iNukes, FP's and SpeakerPower doesn't have it.

Most newer (high end) pro amps come with PFC. Lab's C series all have it (and probably their other new amps too) and Crown's new DCi amps too. Pretty much anything with PFC is very expensive thou. Smiths (clone manufacturer) claims that some of their amps have PFC, which may or may not be true.
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post #6849 of 6975 Old 07-04-2019, 10:15 AM
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Hi

I need your help
I've skimmed the text so far but I am a little bit confused which amp I should choose.
This two amps are in my selection:
- Sinbosen / XBS FP14000 (updaded version with 2 more caps and larger head shink)
- Gisen FP14000

Which of the two amps would you recoomend? Which one has the better build quality. I think the Sinbosen is a litte bit newer but Gisen is a well known company?
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post #6850 of 6975 Old 07-05-2019, 08:21 PM
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Just had an interesting conversation with Sanway. Basically asked if they'd send me a free sample of the new 20k amp to test it and post the results here, so people know if the amp is any good or not. They offered a 20$ rebate which I turned down since I don't really have any use for the amp atm, except that I wanna test it.
He then told me that the amp is not comparable to the 20k Sinbosen amp because their parts are much higher quality.. (Ofc they are.. *rolleyes*)
Anyways, their 20k amp is 720$ and the dsp variant is 800. It comes with a single power supply, so it'll likely output less long term power than the xbs. If anybody is feeling funny, go ahead and order the amp and post some test results please 😄

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post #6851 of 6975 Old 07-25-2019, 11:01 AM
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I have a fp 14k that is stick up in mute and temp and I have nuttting plug up to it what could be wrong
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post #6852 of 6975 Old 07-26-2019, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 113crew View Post
I have a fp 14k that is stick up in mute and temp and I have nuttting plug up to it what could be wrong
On normal labs when you have a zero load the mute lights light up.
Yours could be behaving in the same manor.
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post #6853 of 6975 Old 08-01-2019, 07:42 PM
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Fp10000q?

So I am planning on using the FP10000Q for two rooms long term. The first is my living room 20x18 very open with two UM18-22 (box design not yet decided but think living room, wife has a say). The second Room is smaller (13x12) Think Gaming/secondary movie room. Maybe two sealed 15's. I am new to home DIY, and did all kids of car stereos in my youth (in the 90's). So the wattage from these rack amps is stunning. Any concerns? One additional topic, I have a very large closet that sits between these two rooms where I will rack mount all of my gear and its air conditioned. So fan noise is less of an issue.

I have quotes from Sanway, Sinbosen, and Smith. Was about to pull the trigger with Sinbosen but thought I would ask the masses first. Any concerns with these clone amps?
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post #6854 of 6975 Old 08-07-2019, 11:46 PM
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What issues are you looking out for? Have been using the XBS FP20K for the past few months. It drives two UM18 and a PA460 (sealed; another 460 waiting to be mounted) in my HT. Other than the fan noise, it delivers the required power for the subs. No complaints.




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post #6855 of 6975 Old 08-08-2019, 09:27 PM
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I just talked to Dan at Sinbosen she said that none of there FP amps would run in 4ohm bridged. Has anyone had experience with this. I was going to run 2 dsp6000q bridged 2ch 4ohm 3000x2 it says on there site but she said none of the amps are stable at 4ohm bridged.
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post #6856 of 6975 Old 08-10-2019, 03:11 PM
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Sorry if this has been answered but has the Sinbosen DSP12000Q been tested?

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post #6857 of 6975 Old 08-10-2019, 05:50 PM
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If it has, I know nothing of it.

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post #6858 of 6975 Old 08-13-2019, 08:34 PM
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Sorry if this has been answered but has the Sinbosen DSP12000Q been tested?
I just bought a dsp12000 and a dsp 6000 will get some pic up when they come in
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post #6859 of 6975 Old 08-16-2019, 08:55 PM
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Holy FAST SHIPPING BATMAN!!!!!
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post #6860 of 6975 Old 08-16-2019, 09:07 PM
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The look of it is awesome! Hope the DSP works out great

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post #6861 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 07:29 AM
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Yeah, please be sure to detail your experience with the dsp

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post #6862 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 02:21 PM
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The look of it is awesome! Hope the DSP works out great

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Yes they look great!!
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post #6863 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 02:23 PM
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Yeah, please be sure to detail your experience with the dsp

I just tested them really quick. Did quick test with both amps just hooked up ch1&2 used the dsp was super quick to set up and use even with just touch screen. Maybe I can do a video on it when I get chance.
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post #6864 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 02:45 PM
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I just tested them really quick. Did quick test with both amps just hooked up ch1&2 used the dsp was super quick to set up and use even with just touch screen. Maybe I can do a video on it when I get chance.
Video would be great. I assume you can make adjustments via laptop using usb to connect? How low can you high-pass and eq?

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post #6865 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 05:08 PM
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Video would be great. I assume you can make adjustments via laptop using usb to connect? How low can you high-pass and eq?
I did not test with laptop yet. High pass seems to stop at 20hz on the touch interface. Dont want to fully speak on it as I have not explored fully. I will be happy to answer any questions yall may have
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post #6866 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 06:56 PM
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Video would be great. I assume you can make adjustments via laptop using usb to connect? How low can you high-pass and eq?
You can hook it up via USB and via RJ45(?) if it's the same as on my Sanway. The dsp is the same for sure

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post #6867 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 07:02 PM
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You can hook it up via USB and via RJ45(?) if it's the same as on my Sanway. The dsp is the same for sure
OK I'll ask you, how low of a hpf can you set?

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post #6868 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 07:03 PM
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Yes just hooked one up by usb 20hz was as low as hi pass would go. Even though it listed 0-20000 in manual. Attached is screen shot of the dsp on laptop
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post #6869 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 07:05 PM
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OK I'll ask you, how low of a hpf can you set?

we answered this several times
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post #6870 of 6975 Old 08-17-2019, 07:10 PM
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we answered this several times
I asked you only once and you said

Quote:
Dont want to fully speak on it as I have not explored fully

Calm down

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