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post #7021 of 7049 Old 10-29-2019, 08:25 AM
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What is your input db set to?
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post #7022 of 7049 Old 10-29-2019, 08:47 AM
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44 dB.
The switches are set as down-up-up-down.



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post #7023 of 7049 Old 10-29-2019, 10:06 AM
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hello OldCabin, I read that you have just purchased a Sanwai FP 14000, I can ask you where you bought it and at what price, I was looking for it on Alibaba and Aliexpress but it is not available ... I found appliances marked Power & Grace, Aoyue,Simbosen actually they don't give me much confidence, forgive my English, I hope it's understandable
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post #7024 of 7049 Old 10-29-2019, 11:12 AM
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Hi Cenlui,
I contacted Sanway via their website and they reached out to me via email. They are quite responsive, give it a shot!


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post #7025 of 7049 Old 10-29-2019, 11:33 AM
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thanks, do you think sanway is more reliable than other brands?
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post #7026 of 7049 Old 10-29-2019, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcabin View Post
44 dB.
The switches are set as down-up-up-down.



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Yeah that seems weird. Unless your source output is so low its not driving the inputs to amp properly.. Try some pink noise with no speakers plugged up and see how the meters respond..
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post #7027 of 7049 Old 10-31-2019, 10:46 AM
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Thanks Jason. I'm not sure how to go about taking your advice?!
Any change you can walk me through the procedure?
I've got some new cables coming that I'll try also, but still confused.
Appreciate it.
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post #7028 of 7049 Old 10-31-2019, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcabin View Post
Also, none of the lights on the front panel indicate that I’m receiving any input
They show the output level, not the input level.

A cleanbox should be enough to send the subwoofer to the moon.
I'm thinking you have damaged XLR cables and/or damaged RCA cables.

The -20db LED is about [email protected] on an unbridged 14k. So you are barely doing anything yet.
Something ain't right...

Just be careful, because once you DO get it working you could potentially send 14kW to the cone, which will definitely give it a bad hair day.

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post #7029 of 7049 Old 10-31-2019, 07:38 PM
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Agreed, something isn’t right.
I just got new rca to xlr cables today and same issue.

Correct, the output lights on the front panel aren’t indicating anything.

When using my inuke3000 with the same wiring I get expected output (only a few hundred watts per driver at best) which is enough to enjoy, but nothing like what the FP should do.

The FP is barely making audible output from the subs, but I can feel/hear them when putting my hand/ear to the driver.

Beyond frustrated and confused at this point. What am I missing?


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post #7030 of 7049 Old 11-01-2019, 07:29 AM
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Agreed, something isn’t right.
Beyond frustrated and confused at this point. What am I missing?

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Take a picture of the dip switches in the back of amp when you get the chance.
Without speakers plugged in you should be seeing signal on the green meters. So either the volume knob is all the way down or something else is awry. You can download pink noise and play from your source and if you are still not getting nothing on your meters with volume knobs wide open on amps something else is wrong either on input side or on the amp itself.

Pink Noise
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post #7031 of 7049 Old 11-01-2019, 12:58 PM
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Thanks Jason!
Success!! Turns out, as usual, I’m dense.
When testing I had been using moderate volumes, but when running wide open with no speakers plugged up I realized that it had been working all along, just needed more juice.

Looks like a have lots of calibration to do, but it’s functioning.

Appreciate the help.




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post #7032 of 7049 Old 11-02-2019, 01:31 AM
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Oldcabin, I'm happy for you that you solved the problem, also because I was convinced that Sanway was the most reliable brand ... if it didn't work, a myth collapsed me ... do you think it is the most reliable? I visited their site and was contacted shortly so I will decide which one to buy ..
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post #7033 of 7049 Old 11-02-2019, 08:08 AM
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Cenlui,
I have no idea what is considered reliable.
There is plenty of information and experience in this thread that is better than mine.
I’d say, give it shot!
Thanks.


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post #7034 of 7049 Old 11-02-2019, 09:23 PM
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To increase reliability and productivity, maybe they added stronger jumper nets around the high rise factory so that less workers fall through it this month. Oh no wait, that's Walmart and Apple... hehe!
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post #7035 of 7049 Old 11-23-2019, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
I have a FP20k and I run my 24s on Channels 1 and 3 every since I received it. A lot of magic, but no smoke in sight
Cold weather is here, so I'm back playing with toys....

Having said that, I will be running my Sinbosen 22K to only 2 channels to my twin HS24s only for a while, do you guys recall if this channel combo is good for even Power Supply distribution on the 20k/22k?

Also, since last winter has anyone determined which voltage limiter settings correspond to around 1800w @ 4ohms per ch? Driver is limited to 2k @ 4Ohms.

Last question: Coming out of the Marantz PrePro, going through a MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced for sub eq and integration, what should I set the gain structure on the 2x4 to for Out and on the FP In? Options on in and out for the MiniDSP is 2.0V (hi sens) or 4.0V (low sens). The Marantz spec is 2.0V at 0db ref, so the input on the Mini will be 2.0V, so thoughts on output of the Mini and Input on the FP20k/22k?

I just can't recall since last winter a lot of this stuff (this is a seasonal sport for me, I need to start keeping notes, sucks gettin old)

Thanks!

Last edited by FOHTech; 11-23-2019 at 06:55 PM.
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post #7036 of 7049 Old 11-23-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by FOHTech View Post
I will be running my Sinbosen 24K
Wow, there's a FP24k now?

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post #7037 of 7049 Old 11-23-2019, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Wow, there's a FP24k now?
Typo and edited to 22k
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post #7038 of 7049 Old 11-26-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOHTech View Post
Cold weather is here, so I'm back playing with toys....

Having said that, I will be running my Sinbosen 22K to only 2 channels to my twin HS24s only for a while, do you guys recall if this channel combo is good for even Power Supply distribution on the 20k/22k?

Also, since last winter has anyone determined which voltage limiter settings correspond to around 1800w @ 4ohms per ch? Driver is limited to 2k @ 4Ohms.

Last question: Coming out of the Marantz PrePro, going through a MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced for sub eq and integration, what should I set the gain structure on the 2x4 to for Out and on the FP In? Options on in and out for the MiniDSP is 2.0V (hi sens) or 4.0V (low sens). The Marantz spec is 2.0V at 0db ref, so the input on the Mini will be 2.0V, so thoughts on output of the Mini and Input on the FP20k/22k?

I just can't recall since last winter a lot of this stuff (this is a seasonal sport for me, I need to start keeping notes, sucks gettin old)

Thanks!

Channel 1 and 3 are on separate PSUs, but this use can lead to bus pumping when putting out lots of power into low impedance loads. Bridging the channels would solve both problems. DC resistance is 2.9 Ohm on that driver, so you'll have to try if the amp is stable operating into this load bridged. I think it's unlikely that you'll run into any issues with any of the 3 scenarios. I'd start with the bridged operation and if you see the clip lights come on, try out something else.


I would not recommend setting up voltage limiters to match the driver's RMS wattage. The voltage limiters are clip limiters, which you'd set to be between like 3 and 4 times the rated RMS/AES wattage. Most modern drivers don't need a clip limiter at all. Ricci has driven alot of speakers with a bridged K20 and the better ones survive CEA bursts at over 10KW. If you want real driver protection you need to buy an amp with a True Power limiter ($$$). If you decide that you want to ignore my advice (if you wanna be overly safe), set it up to 85V RMS (120V peak on the dip switch).

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post #7039 of 7049 Old 11-27-2019, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peniku8 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by FOHTech View Post
Cold weather is here, so I'm back playing with toys....

Having said that, I will be running my Sinbosen 22K to only 2 channels to my twin HS24s only for a while, do you guys recall if this channel combo is good for even Power Supply distribution on the 20k/22k?

Also, since last winter has anyone determined which voltage limiter settings correspond to around 1800w @ 4ohms per ch? Driver is limited to 2k @ 4Ohms.

Last question: Coming out of the Marantz PrePro, going through a MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced for sub eq and integration, what should I set the gain structure on the 2x4 to for Out and on the FP In? Options on in and out for the MiniDSP is 2.0V (hi sens) or 4.0V (low sens). The Marantz spec is 2.0V at 0db ref, so the input on the Mini will be 2.0V, so thoughts on output of the Mini and Input on the FP20k/22k?

I just can't recall since last winter a lot of this stuff (this is a seasonal sport for me, I need to start keeping notes, sucks gettin old)

Thanks!

Channel 1 and 3 are on separate PSUs, but this use can lead to bus pumping when putting out lots of power into low impedance loads. Bridging the channels would solve both problems. DC resistance is 2.9 Ohm on that driver, so you'll have to try if the amp is stable operating into this load bridged. I think it's unlikely that you'll run into any issues with any of the 3 scenarios. I'd start with the bridged operation and if you see the clip lights come on, try out something else.


I would not recommend setting up voltage limiters to match the driver's RMS wattage. The voltage limiters are clip limiters, which you'd set to be between like 3 and 4 times the rated RMS/AES wattage. Most modern drivers don't need a clip limiter at all. Ricci has driven alot of speakers with a bridged K20 and the better ones survive CEA bursts at over 10KW. If you want real driver protection you need to buy an amp with a True Power limiter ($$$). If you decide that you want to ignore my advice (if you wanna be overly safe), set it up to 85V RMS (120V peak on the dip switch).
Thanks for that!! Appreciate the valuable response. So I got my head and memory back in the game and since my post have things up and running. I set the VPL limiter on the amp at 100V, even more conservative, and ran some tests. Im on channels 1/3 but not bridged. With that driver Im not sure it will be happy. Ill have the ither two drivers on there later this winter until then Im keeping it under control and putting 2 HT18s per channel in series for 8ohms per channel on the other two to keep the amp happier.

Put the MiniDSP in line and flattened out the curve. Ended up with a highly attenuated High Shelf above 20hz and a couple of peak filters also attenuating some peaks. Ran Interstellar after setting the 85db pink. The VPL is kicking in and tickiling in the first scene. The house is also going to shake apart or my wife is going to kick me whichever happens first lol. I backed it down some more from the AVR. When all 4 drivers are in place, Im going to ring it out and maximize the amps performance alot more. for now this works and is safe.
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post #7040 of 7049 Old 12-17-2019, 04:29 AM
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Hello,

Thank you for this thread. I wasn't aware of these clones earlier. I would like to ask whether fp14k would be suitable for 2x infinity 1260w subwoofers (12" 300w rms - 4 ohm), which will be used in 50x50x45cm boxes (around 19.5 x 19.5 x 18"; net ~3.2 cubic feet; as attached). If there is a chance to damage the subs what would you recommend instead (perhaps DSP6000Q from sinbosen or equivalent)?

Best,
Onur
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post #7041 of 7049 Old 12-17-2019, 05:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

Thank you for this thread. I wasn't aware of these clones earlier. I would like to ask whether fp14k would be suitable for 2x infinity 1260w subwoofers (12" 300w rms - 4 ohm), which will be used in 50x50x45cm boxes (around 19.5 x 19.5 x 18"; net ~3.2 cubic feet; as attached). If there is a chance to damage the subs what would you recommend instead (perhaps DSP6000Q from sinbosen or equivalent)?

Best,
Onur
Maybe an amp that can output 14kw isn't the best match for a pair of drivers that can take 600w.

Maybe look into something like an NX3000D / NU3000DSP
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post #7042 of 7049 Old 12-31-2019, 02:24 AM
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Hi All,

I have been using the sanway clone fp14+ for many years. I recently moved and also changed speakers/amps and ran into difficulty integrating the subs (a pair of Funk Audio 18, linked via minidsp).

I found with the subs on the mid/hi range quality is degraded (noisier sounding). After some troubleshooting I narrowed it down to the clone amp as even without anything hooked-up, just powering on the clone amp will cause the degradation.

Today I measured the AC line noise using the simple EnTech AC Noise Analyzer and it confirmed the finding. With the clone amp off the EnTech read ~10 units of noise. Once the clone amp is turned on the noise reading is off the chart - it didn't have a reading and showed overloaded!

Next up I installed an EP Digiplug noise filter (a parallel noise suppressor) into the same powerbar and the EnTech reading dropped to ~150, still way higher than when the clone amp is not on. (I always have the EP Digiplug installed prior to this so while it works, it's not enough.)

Now I am not sure if the noise dumped into the AC line by my clone amp is due to its aging components or it is simply like that. In any case I'm looking for solutions which include:

- getting a new clone FP14+ and hope it is less noisy
- getting a (used) real Lab FP14+ and hope it is less noisy (but worried about fan noise as my clone amp has the fan mod)
- get another amp for the sub and hope it will be less noisy (looked at speakerpower but it is not cheap and its switched-mode operation could also be noisy as well)

If anyone has the EnTech analyzer (or the equivalent Monster version) then could you try the same measurement to see what the readings are?

All ideas are welcome!
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post #7043 of 7049 Old 12-31-2019, 03:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi All,

I have been using the sanway clone fp14+ for many years. I recently moved and also changed speakers/amps and ran into difficulty integrating the subs (a pair of Funk Audio 18, linked via minidsp).

I found with the subs on the mid/hi range quality is degraded (noisier sounding). After some troubleshooting I narrowed it down to the clone amp as even without anything hooked-up, just powering on the clone amp will cause the degradation.

Today I measured the AC line noise using the simple EnTech AC Noise Analyzer and it confirmed the finding. With the clone amp off the EnTech read ~10 units of noise. Once the clone amp is turned on the noise reading is off the chart - it didn't have a reading and showed overloaded!

Next up I installed an EP Digiplug noise filter (a parallel noise suppressor) into the same powerbar and the EnTech reading dropped to ~150, still way higher than when the clone amp is not on. (I always have the EP Digiplug installed prior to this so while it works, it's not enough.)

Now I am not sure if the noise dumped into the AC line by my clone amp is due to its aging components or it is simply like that. In any case I'm looking for solutions which include:

- getting a new clone FP14+ and hope it is less noisy
- getting a (used) real Lab FP14+ and hope it is less noisy (but worried about fan noise as my clone amp has the fan mod)
- get another amp for the sub and hope it will be less noisy (looked at speakerpower but it is not cheap and its switched-mode operation could also be noisy as well)

If anyone has the EnTech analyzer (or the equivalent Monster version) then could you try the same measurement to see what the readings are?

All ideas are welcome!
Run it on a separate circuit and/or use other gear with modern power supplies and proper filtering?
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post #7044 of 7049 Old 12-31-2019, 04:44 AM
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Run it on a separate circuit and/or use other gear with modern power supplies and proper filtering?
Unfortunately only got one circuit here for the audio rig. Already running it in another spoke of the circuit which quiet the noise down substantially. The EnTech measured ~50 at the other spoke of the circuit running the main rig.

The other gears have good PS and are powered via a power conditioner already but the junk dumped by the clone amp is just too much. I'll be testing another EP Digiplug in the main rig's circuit to see if it can contain it.

My clone amp is 6+ years old so perhaps it's time to move on.
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post #7045 of 7049 Old 02-08-2020, 02:59 PM
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has anyone tried or seen anything on the DSP20000q / DSP22000Q ? looks like they scaled back the power supply to fit the dsp ? should one just stick with fp20000q and minidsp?

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post #7046 of 7049 Old 02-10-2020, 03:47 PM
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i think ill just stick with the sinbosen FP20000q and minidsp. onboard dsp would make life much easier.
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post #7047 of 7049 Old 02-10-2020, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cc609cc609 View Post
I recently moved and also changed speakers/amps and ran into difficulty integrating the subs (a pair of Funk Audio 18, linked via minidsp).

I found with the subs on the mid/hi range quality is degraded (noisier sounding). After some troubleshooting I narrowed it down to the clone amp as even without anything hooked-up, just powering on the clone amp will cause the degradation.

Today I measured the AC line noise using the simple EnTech AC Noise Analyzer and it confirmed the finding. With the clone amp off the EnTech read ~10 units of noise. Once the clone amp is turned on the noise reading is off the chart - it didn't have a reading and showed overloaded!

Next up I installed an EP Digiplug noise filter (a parallel noise suppressor) into the same powerbar and the EnTech reading dropped to ~150, still way higher than when the clone amp is not on. (I always have the EP Digiplug installed prior to this so while it works, it's not enough.)

Now I am not sure if the noise dumped into the AC line by my clone amp is due to its aging components or it is simply like that.
Generally I would start with blaming whatever was changed.
It is possible that it got damaged in the move.

Did you have dedicated circuits before and now you don't?
Did you have a speaker amplifier that was immune to noise, and now you don't?

I know that miniDSP's are notorious for causing noise, some people have tried doing active fronts with them and they just can't stand the noise they inject.

I've also encountered noise from various DAC's.

I use XBS FP10k's on my mains, connected directly to Sabre Ref DACs (Motu 24AO's), and even with 108db/w/m tweeters I have to be within 2ft of it to hear the hiss from the clone circuitry.

My projector fan makes WAY more noise than the tweeters do.
Now in my new HT, which will be fan-noise free, it might become a problem, but only when no signal is playing (like mute / quite passages etc.)

In any case if you want to visualize the noise, you could buy a Kuman USB O-Scope on amazon, they are dirt cheap and rated up to a few hundred volts in 10x mode.
Then you'd be able to figure out exactly what frequencies the noise is at.

Usually in an amplifier the first thing to die are the capacitors, they can leak fluids, and as you know liquids and electricity generally don't mix well.

If your power conditioners can't filter a clone, then they won't be able to filter out an EMP/CME/lightning strike (all 3 are WAY more powerful.)
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post #7048 of 7049 Old 02-14-2020, 10:30 PM
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Generally I would start with blaming whatever was changed.
It is possible that it got damaged in the move.

...
I bought a new XBS FB14000 and that solved the problem. I suspect the caps on the old Sanway is drying up and hence not doing their job.

The XBS is quite well-built and is problem-free so far.
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Hey guys,
I have simbosen FP20000Q and 2 B&C 21SW115 subwoofers (rated 1700W RMS, 3400W program). What VPL should i set them to? Thanks
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Lab Gruppen Fp 14000 , Sanway Fp 10000q

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