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post #31 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 View Post


Seems like the biggest issue there is lack of separation between your mains. The way you have it set up they're like one big mono channel.

I bet if you lay the subs down on their sides and put the mains on top of them, you'll improve the soundstage.

Yeah you would think, I had reservations at first too but in practice that's not an issue. I initially had the subs on the ground and the mains were placed as far apart as they could go. Through trial and error and many different placements, the subs ended up where they are and the mains shoe horned as well. Whether you sit or stand, far off to the left or right, there is not a big shift at all in the sound. I'm not in love with my set up for music but with movies, I really enjoy so movies in purpose built theater ftw.
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post #32 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Yeah you would think, I had reservations at first too but in practice that's not an issue. I initially had the subs on the ground and the mains were placed as far apart as they could go. Through trial and error and many different placements, the subs ended up where they are and the mains shoe horned as well. Whether you sit or stand, far off to the left or right, there is not a big shift at all in the sound. I'm not in love with my set up for music but with movies, I really enjoy so movies in purpose built theater ftw.

This would be quite obvious since moving off center wont create as much seperation of the sound from any one speaker at a time. I just brought my mains inboard to fit some new subs and it is gonna have to go one way or another, its basically a single source, likely lacking decent staging, but then again, that's just in theory.

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post #33 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 01:02 PM
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post #34 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post

Which 18s are you currently using?

I think those are the four CHT 18s.
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post #35 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Correct and I have 2) dts 10s behind me as well. Those will more than likely go into hibernation but who knows maybe they will all play together in disjointed harmony.
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post #36 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post


This would be quite obvious since moving off center wont create as much seperation of the sound from any one speaker at a time. I just brought my mains inboard to fit some new subs and it is gonna have to go one way or another, its basically a single source, likely lacking decent staging, but then again, that's just in theory.

IMO, from a sound perspective, an excellent movie experience should encompass many qualities. Among them: huge sound stage/immersive, excellent dialogue intelligibility, dynamic range, accuracy, revealing but without listening fatigue, and able to play any movie without strain regardless of content.

Along the way our rooms come into play and/or the desire to keep things stealth. My end goal (with compromises in effect) is not to have any of those qualities take a severe enough hit to detract from the overall experience.
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post #37 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 01:29 PM
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Im with you on that one, just having them that close together kinda contradicts the "huge" soundstage part of your comment, but then again, that may be the best way those play in room who am I to argue against what works best for you

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post #38 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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The list of qualities is for excellent hence mine being just good
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post #39 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 02:33 PM
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I will tell you guys that even with the cinema speakers close together they still put out huge sound. They put out a bigger sound stage than most any speaker I have owned even spread far apart. The only downside I remember is that the panning from left to right or vice versa is very quick and not as noticeable when far apart, sound stage is still awesome and bigger than most.

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
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post #40 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 02:42 PM
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I assume you tried a setup with the subs between them?
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post #41 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 03:06 PM
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I've been blown away by the ability to delineate a wide, solid image from narrow speaker spreads. I'm anything but an expert, but I do enjoy reading about the physiology involved. IIRC, we utilize a three pronged psychoacoustic process to determine localization. In addition to spectral components, we use differences in intensity, and timing to form the auditory illusion. All that, plus the law of the first wavefront, allows us to form an appreciable image of the recorded event, even in a reflective indoor environment.

When stereo TV's and broadcasts first surfaced mainstream, circa '86, I clearly remember being blown away by cheap on-board speakers on each side of the TV, and the effect created merely by straight up stereo (there were exaggerated effects too). This led me to experiment with narrow spread stereo setup, and wow, the results were quite surprising.

All said, the three speakers in question are as tight as possible, but a lateral spread of image isn't out of the question.


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post #42 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

I will tell you guys that even with the cinema speakers close together they still put out huge sound. They put out a bigger sound stage than most any speaker I have owned even spread far apart. The only downside I remember is that the panning from left to right or vice versa is very quick and not as noticeable when far apart, sound stage is still awesome and bigger than most.

This pretty much sums it up. The small hit I take is maybe from panning on some scenes. I've had several different sets of LCRs. I've experimented with phantom center for awhile where I had the subs in the middle. It never seemed to be a complete win. For what I gained in one area it diminished in another. Every different set up has had it's own advantages. This particular set up has been the most consistent across the board. It's the one where I put in a movie and push play and don't pick apart trying to understand the dialogue, or worrying about my amps clipping, or if I move to the right I'm out the sweet spot. It's my fave because I watch movies. I like to tinker but for me that's ultimately the end goal.
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post #43 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

This pretty much sums it up. The small hit I take is maybe from panning on some scenes. I've had several different sets of LCRs. I've experimented with phantom center for awhile where I had the subs in the middle. It never seemed to be a complete win. For what I gained in one area it diminished in another. Every different set up has had it's own advantages. This particular set up has been the most consistent across the board. It's the one where I put in a movie and push play and don't pick apart trying to understand the dialogue, or worrying about my amps clipping, or if I move to the right I'm out the sweet spot. It's my fave because I watch movies. I like to tinker but for me that's ultimately the end goal.

Nice and well said! I hope I get the same results with my wall o sound.
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post #44 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 06:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Thx Scott! I went today and got a color chart of some of the options/finishes available in regards to the poles. Since it's a small section I figure the poles could be a little more radical than the rest of the sub which will dominate in visibility anyways. Hopefully tommorow I will have some actual physical pieces to examine. They said they are going to try and get me a cylinder shape, another triangular, and potentially a hex.
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post #45 of 199 Old 01-26-2012, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Copper vein semi gloss

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LL
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post #46 of 199 Old 01-27-2012, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I still don't have physical samples in hand so probably won't be til next week. On another note I took in what many of you mentioned about my speakers being so close. With movies it never stuck out but for music I always felt like the image was shifted to one side. Of all the configurations I tried between floor and elevated for the subs, I never tried how I have tonight with the current speakers. I have to admit the difference is substantial for music as everything just opened up. So thx!



Attachment 235503
The top pic is current the bottom is how it was previously
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post #47 of 199 Old 01-27-2012, 08:30 PM
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well, since everybody is going to ask, why not move the speaker on the left out like the one on the right or are you kind of sitting off center to the right?

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post #48 of 199 Old 01-27-2012, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ltd02 View Post

well, since everybody is going to ask, why not move the speaker on the left out like the one on the right or are you kind of sitting off center to the right?

+1
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post #49 of 199 Old 01-27-2012, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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The speaker would be partially impeded by the screen frame. I'm still willing to try it but right now I have velvet to the left of the screen so the sound would be majorly obstructed.
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post #50 of 199 Old 01-28-2012, 09:56 AM
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---------
Do to others as you would have them do to you. Luke 6:31

Leave no man behind. U.S. Military

Above all else, do no harm. Physicians' Creed
---------


Now in audio, IMO,...above all else, when considering any system in any room, is front stage physical symmetry, and acoustical symmetry.



In all seriousness, the previous config, whereby all where tightly in a row, would seem superior to the asymmetrical approach. Even if it were in-audible, the thought of it would drive me crazy. (CDO)


Quote:


It's the one where I put in a movie and push play and don't pick apart trying to understand the dialog, or worrying about my amps clipping, or if I move to the right I'm out the sweet spot. It's my fave because I watch movies.

+1

Great point, we oftentimes get so wrapped up in the minutia, we lose track of the goal. I too absolutely love it, where upon the end credits rolling, I realize I never once analyzed, picked apart, re-played a chapter, yep that's the good stuff.

Like many enthusiasts, my wife and I typically love the big, bombastic, effects laden fun ride stuff. However last weekend, like many weekends, we watched a few movies. Moneyball (outstanding btw), Killer Elite (our kind of flick), and Brotherhood. Well this Brotherhood was decent, but phenomenally relentless. It's a good thing the running time was a mere 76 minutes, because you truly need a break (obnoxious frat dicks) by the time the credits roll. All said, I never once considered the dialog/soundtrack a single time.

So, gmpc, good point.

A little closer examination of your front stage, I think of this every-time I see those type of mains. I contemplate front baffle diffraction, and how much a good felt, or acoustical foam,... could limit any detrimental effects of diffraction. Just a thought.


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post #51 of 199 Old 01-28-2012, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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You definitely have some good points. If I had to look at it being asymmetrical it would definitely bother me, but being that it's behind an AT screen - outta sight outta mind. Now all that's left is the listening aspect. With the right speaker moved 20” or so the benefit on music was very obvious. I watched several movie clips and noticed benefit as well. In transformers 2 and 3 there are certain parts where the dialogue is only coming from the right speaker, so for example when megatron says ”decepticons attack” off screen that effect is heightened more so. I'll have to measure to see if the subs took a hit but in listening to many clips nothing stuck out negatively. The mains however have been all good in all scenarios so far.
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post #52 of 199 Old 01-29-2012, 05:32 PM
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Another Bosso inspired sub. Awesome. I thought you were going to build a vertical dual opposed like Bosso's but either way awesome.

I tried to do the same a while back. Sorry for the blurry pic.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/DSC_1483.jpg
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post #53 of 199 Old 01-29-2012, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

I tried to do the same a while back. Sorry for the blurry pic.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/DSC_1483.jpg

Interesting, how was the performance? What would you do differently?

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post #54 of 199 Old 01-29-2012, 11:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrapladm View Post

Another Bosso inspired sub. Awesome. I thought you were going to build a vertical dual opposed like Bosso's but either way awesome.

I tried to do the same a while back. Sorry for the blurry pic.
http://i720.photobucket.com/albums/w...m/DSC_1483.jpg

I am building it to be vertical dual opposed. It could end up horizontal but that's not my first intention. This week I'll have that the poles that will go in between boxes for stacking.
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post #55 of 199 Old 01-30-2012, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH View Post

Interesting, how was the performance? What would you do differently?

I really liked it but honestly the only thing I could compare it to was my THT. The THT sounded better before EQ but after the dual SSD was a monster. Very calm when needed to be then slam instantly.

The only thing I would have done differently would be to live in the USA. If I lived there I would have continued with another dual opposed then another.

But since I live in Australia now I had to go with the biggest driver because of shipping. I would have ended up with eight 15's. And for a single 15 with the BP option it would have been $390 each. SO I went with 21's for now.

I figured four 21's will be the same displacement and save me some cash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

I am building it to be vertical dual opposed. It could end up horizontal but that's not my first intention. This week I'll have that the poles that will go in between boxes for stacking.

My apologizes I thought it was a horizontal dual opposed. Makes sense now.
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post #56 of 199 Old 01-30-2012, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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No biggie at a glance you're enclosures looked liked bosso's without the wood around them - nice work.
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post #57 of 199 Old 01-30-2012, 04:19 PM
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Thanks. It was my first Sono project. AND I didn't want to take anything away from Bosso's amazing works of art.
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post #58 of 199 Old 01-31-2012, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Sample piece to enable stacking of the sub boxes. There would be one in each corner. This piece is larger than what is needed so it would just be scaled down accordingly.



Attachment 235893



Attachment 235894

Close up to show nice welds. I'm thinking of having the color accentuated by heating the metal further then clear coat.
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post #59 of 199 Old 01-31-2012, 03:44 PM - Thread Starter
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post #60 of 199 Old 03-20-2012, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Finally, some progress, I wired up all the boxes, installed the drivers and hooked them up to my face audio f700. Everything works Now I have to hook up my FP 14000, recalibrate, move the subs to different locations, omni mic for measurements...oh well they work!
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