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post #61 of 199 Old 03-21-2012, 02:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Keeps gettin better. Hooked up the FP 14000 and it's belting out the bass without a hitch. Also recalibrated and did some further tweaking with subs. So far I've tested a number of movie clips but mainly focused on the Hulk since it's a torture test. So far no clank, so self noise (whatever that was supposed to sound like) and on the amp end it's just loafing along.

Next step some measurements, then bosso signal shaper
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post #62 of 199 Old 03-21-2012, 03:22 PM
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gpmbc,

I was just going to ask if you were going to use Bosso's device. I just did not see that last sentance and was off looking for the name of the unit. Come back over to post this and see you last line.

Looking forward to seeing how everything goes.

James
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post #63 of 199 Old 03-21-2012, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks James, I'm excited too. I've been steady cone hawking to make sure I'm not in the red zone. So far so good just gradually giving more to see how much abuse can be dealt so I know when to back off. Haven't found that point yet and I watched Hulk at -7 through all the worst parts. Admittedly with eq I'll probably be right back to square 1 watching for limits again.
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post #64 of 199 Old 03-21-2012, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Admittedly with eq I'll probably be right back to square 1 watching for limits again.

...Bet on it.



Awesome to hear you're finally up and running.

Bosso
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post #65 of 199 Old 03-21-2012, 05:33 PM
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Bosso,

I think you maybe pushing him close to the edge with that last post.

James
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post #66 of 199 Old 03-21-2012, 07:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass View Post


...Bet on it.

Awesome to hear you're finally up and running.

Bosso

Thanks, everything is functioning correctly! Now I gotta get handle on my room. That might be the hardest task of all.
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post #67 of 199 Old 03-21-2012, 07:48 PM
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Any final pics of the build or other progress pics?
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post #68 of 199 Old 03-21-2012, 07:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll take some tonight when I get home. They're assembled but still have a lot of finishing to go.
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post #69 of 199 Old 03-21-2012, 10:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The binding posts didn't get installed in the right location but that's an easy fix in the process of finishing which will probably end up being flat or satin black. Not sure of final location, just trying to see what response I get with different configurations.


Attachment 241302



Attachment 241303
LL
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post #70 of 199 Old 03-22-2012, 01:35 AM
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Awesome. I was wondering what was going with this build.
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post #71 of 199 Old 03-22-2012, 05:56 AM
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gpmbc,

Maybe a strange question but do you or could you expect any issues coming from the 4 back drivers sitting so close to the wall?

James
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post #72 of 199 Old 03-22-2012, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Actually yes, the wall the drivers are facing is not very robust. I'm hearing things that I thought were the drivers making noise and it's the inside of that wall. Now gotta contemplate down firing or to the back corners.
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post #73 of 199 Old 03-22-2012, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Actually yes, the wall the drivers are facing is not very robust. I'm hearing things that I thought were the drivers making noise and it's the inside of that wall. Now gotta contemplate down firing or to the back corners.

How about side fire them?

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post #74 of 199 Old 03-22-2012, 08:01 AM
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MK,

Are you talking about turning them to fire into each other?

James
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post #75 of 199 Old 03-22-2012, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

MK,

Are you talking about turning them to fire into each other?

James

Yes, Mark Seaton set up Art's room with 4 submersives like that and if they like it I thought it should be good enough for me and I am firing my subs that way as well.

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
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post #76 of 199 Old 03-22-2012, 08:10 AM
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MK,

That was just a question to make sure I understood what you were describing. I am not smart enough in this area to know if that would cause issues with 6 drivers facing each other while playing.

Do you by chance know if Mark did anything different per say when he set up Art's room like that? Thanks.

James
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post #77 of 199 Old 03-22-2012, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exojam View Post

MK,

That was just a question to make sure I understood what you were describing. I am not smart enough in this area to know if that would cause issues with 6 drivers facing each other while playing.

Do you by chance know if Mark did anything different per say when he set up Art's room like that? Thanks.

James

I am not sure that was a while ago. I know I needed to change the phase to 90 degrees on 2 of the subs and then I EQ'd using 2 filters. My LP will be different though. The 2 outer subs will have a driver facing the side walls and then there will be 2 drivers facing each other per 2 subs. This way he is not firing at that noisy wall. It will only take a minute to rotate them. Bosso fires drivers into each other when stacking his subs so it must work. I would face them for the best response but if he hears things I would just experiment. I remember dragging those 300 pound DTS-10's all over looking for the best spot, these will be nothing to move. I also moved 8 sealed 18's all over as well. I am lucky that my front stage is a great location for subs as response and coverage is concerned. You would be surprised how good just stacking them in the front corners work out.

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
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post #78 of 199 Old 03-22-2012, 08:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Lots of good info MK thanks. I'll entertain that as well.
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post #79 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 12:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Made some make shift legs (which surprisingly worked out well) to enable stacking. Also, moved the SSD 15s to the back corners. Man what a difference! Before with subs up front middle wall I couldn't feel much of anything. Now with a little boundary reinforcement it's very visceral. On certain scenes the most ever. Currently I'm running the 15s in the back with CHT 18s still up front behind the screen.
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post #80 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Attachment 242615



Attachment 242616

The 3 stack was just to see what it looked like. There are 2 boxes on opposite sides of the couch. Soon to come: painting the boxes and all the finishing stuff that comes with.
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post #81 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 12:37 AM
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Awesome build! I bet those puppies CRANK!!!
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post #82 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 07:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks! Yes they crank and my point of reference is 2) dts 10s in the same location. I keep checking for massive excursion and for the top boxes to jump off. So far the only huge excursion was the when the Hulk hits abomination after he breaks apart the cop car. The other times the cones are pretty much loafing along in comparison. Box movement is nil, there is just no movement. Being dual opposed obviously helps, but having less contact with the floor (resting on the legs) took it to another level still.
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post #83 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 07:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Thanks! Yes they crank and my point of reference is 2) dts 10s in the same location. I keep checking for massive excursion and for the top boxes to jump off. So far the only huge excursion was the when the Hulk hits abomination after he breaks apart the cop car. The other times the cones are pretty much loafing along in comparison. Box movement is nil, there is just no movement. Being dual opposed obviously helps, but having less contact with the floor (resting on the legs) took it to another level still.

Do you have any response comparisons?

Building the room, speakers, and subs.
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post #84 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Just seat of the pants and walls trembling at this point. For how loud I listen I have more on tap than I need. That was one thing I've always liked about the dts 10s - massive over head. I have that again. I'll have to bring out my omni mic again and see what I'm working with.
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post #85 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Just seat of the pants and walls trembling at this point. For how loud I listen I have more on tap than I need. That was one thing I've always liked about the dts 10s - massive over head. I have that again. I'll have to bring out my omni mic again and see what I'm working with.

Do you still have the DTS-10's?

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post #86 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 08:53 AM
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Id love to see your graphs of the dts-10's vs the ssd's if you still have measurements from the previous setup Overall which do you prefer and why?

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post #87 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 11:18 AM
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post #88 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 11:32 AM - Thread Starter
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I still have the DTS 10s. Lemme tell you that's a heavy one man show moving those things around. I'll have to see what graphs I had saved from OM. I never tested for outright spl, never have with any system just frequency response. Both are eq'd the same in that I just let audyssey do its thing. I know that doesn't mean that in the least that either system is close to flat.

With that being said I'm still getting familiar with the newest set up as of last night. I did run many clips trying to see what can be dished out without reaching limits and never did. Then I settled in and watched the whole scene from the dark knight where they are transporting harvey dent. Man there were some visceral moments that I've never felt before that had me caught off guard cause I'm used to experiencing it the same way. I now have to remove the glass covers that go over the bulbs for the light in my theater room. Took me awhile to find the source of that clank-never had that issue before.
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post #89 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Amp working correct, drivers functioning without a hitch, now to settle into the details. So far in comparison to the DTS 10s in terms of output I don't feel like I'm losing anything which is a huge first step.
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post #90 of 199 Old 04-04-2012, 02:22 PM
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This idea I got about 2-1/2 years ago of going vertical was to accomplish several goals that are out of the scope of multiple placements on the floor.

1) To eliminate the typical peak/null (depending on where you sit in the room) caused by the floor-to-ceiling standing wave, 2) to explore the results of facing 2 identical and identically powered drivers, 3) to be able to place serious fire power in a tiny footprint and, 4) to see if the theory of adding a 4th virtual point source (the ceiling) had any veracity.

Here are the results of my preliminary test (there have been subsequent tests, but I ain't tellin' just yet):

I picked the worst corner in my 3500 cubes room. I placed a single dual opposed 2x15" module (slightly smaller than gpmbc used to prevent bottoming in a worse-case scenario) in that corner and calibrated. The mic was placed at the LP and not moved throughout the exercise.

Sine sweep from the LP, single module:


I then stacked a 2nd module. They're 8 ohm modules, so the 2 were wired to 4 ohms into the same amp, same calibration.

Sine sweep from the LP, stacked dual module:


I then stacked 2 more modules for a stack of 4 total. About 88" high. I set the bottom module on a circular piece of 3/4" MDF that was just large enough a diameter to catch the feet of the bottom module and leveled it. I did not secure the top plate to anything, so that the column was free-standing.

I wanted to, among the other things I listed, see if dual opposed was all I've cracked it up to be in that, had the stack vibrated at all, it would have easily walked off the MDF base and BAM! Disaster!

Sine sweep, 4 modules, 2-identical amplifiers into identical loads, calibrated the same:


The difference between the 1 module and the 2 module should be +6dB. The difference between the 1 module and the 4 module should be +12dB. Instead, taking into account the difference in frequency response, the average difference was +18dB.

The null at 73 Hz, which perfectly matches my floor-to-ceiling dimension times 2, goes from -30dB to perfectly flat. The overalll FR from 1 module to 4 modules goes from (+/-) 21dB to (+/-) 8dB, all in a footprint of 2.75 square feet.

After days of playing bass-heavy movies at the systems limits... the stack did not budge 1 mm from it's original placement. Besides the fact that the test for stack stability was successful, that also means that when the floor rippled with high level ULF soundtrack pulses from the beginning of Star Trek, et al, it was strictly from the pressure wave and not the subs sending extraneous vibrations into the floor.

After placement and sine sweep measurements, I ran Audyssey:


Actually, all that was required was 2 PEQ filters to smooth the response. I personally don't much care for the way my version of Audyssey manipulates the signal, nor the huge boost it imposes on <25 Hz, so that's what I did and I shut Aud off.

The SSD drivers are well built overhungs for relatively cheap $$ (although the price has gone up about 15% since I bought them), the module size is quite small, the stack looks pretty cool and the results were very much as predicted for a pretty small penny.

here's a shot taken during the tests. The front panels were faced into the corner so we could have easy access to the terminals for wiring. [You can see the MDF base with one of the bottom modules feet right at the edge]:



Bosso
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