Coaxials: Another DIY Group Project. - Page 48 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1411 of 1759 Old 02-14-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I give you the ReactionAudio crossover:

http://www.radianaudio.com/product/312xd-crossover/

I'm not kidding either...

One could surmise purely from this, that my actually custom XO is going to be better. I tested out the 322/12 XO from radian and it actually does a pretty decent job by itself however. Not sure why Reaction used the 312xd
I need to come over there one day and bring the volt 10lx to compare. I'm still interested in the radians but wanted something to play with so the 10lx in ported cabs was easiest at the time.

Hmmm, I will be in Robbinsville, NC this weekend, but I know I won't be in the mood when I leave Sunday.
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post #1412 of 1759 Old 02-14-2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDean View Post
I need to come over there one day and bring the volt 10lx to compare. I'm still interested in the radians but wanted something to play with so the 10lx in ported cabs was easiest at the time.

Hmmm, I will be in Robbinsville, NC this weekend, but I know I won't be in the mood when I leave Sunday.
Beautiful area! For the best tho that you couldn't make it, as I will be in KC demoing all those crazy guy's theaters.

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post #1413 of 1759 Old 02-14-2017, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by erwinfrombelgium View Post
What about a Volt 12 using the 12 CX?
Would like to see this as well

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post #1414 of 1759 Old 02-15-2017, 06:29 AM
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The 12cx was never pursued due to the inherent size difference from the 10cx. Since 90% of the builds of these speakers are for surrounds as opposed to dedicated LCR's, the size of the volt 10 was already questionable for some. A 12 would just be entirely too big. The polars on the 10 also measured better IIRC, not to mention the 10's output was ample enough that with the power you can provide to a volt 10, you are capable of reference+ at multiple meters before too much compression starts kicking in.

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post #1415 of 1759 Old 02-15-2017, 07:10 AM
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I looked at the TS parameters of the 12 at one point, ages ago... forget the details, but my impression was that it needed a pretty large box to work well, and that the 10 was a better overall compromise.
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post #1416 of 1759 Old 02-15-2017, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by RLBURNSIDE View Post
Hi guys, I've been long interested in building an Atmos system and I think it may be time to consider DIY, like Volt 10s for every single channel. I like the idea that all my speakers are beaming at me with the same performance and off-axis characteristics.

That said, for due diligence, are there affordable non-DIY coax speakers out there? I can't seem to find much. Or possibly better than Volt-10s? I have JBL LSR series in a 5.1, pro speakers, but I'm getting tired of the hassle + expense of active speakers (XLR cables + XLR pre-amp make an 11-channel Atmos setup ridiculously inefficient. Plus the hiss...don't want that).

I'm planning on going with the Yamaha 3060 for the receiver and since the Volt-10s are supposedly 95db efficient and available in low profile (for LCR) and slanted for heights, I think the power should be OK. I'm just worried that I may be going down another rabbit hole. My chief aim is good speakers that won't struggle to deliver clear dialogue at moderate volumes, while providing the point source accuracy that I believe are ideal for Atmos / DTS:X.

What do you guys think, is 11-channels of Volt-10s a crazy idea? I'll probably go with 2 channels to start and listen to them as mains for a while, then decide on whether to use them everywhere. But I also want my LCRs to be coax so they also deliver pin-point Atmos directivity.

Thanks for your insights + suggestions!
In my searches, they only coaxial speakers I found were Tannoy's and JBL's.

The Tannoy's are kinda pricey but supposedly one of the best.

JBL SCS8's and 12's are more affordable but slightly more than the Volt's.

PM me if you want more info and pricing.
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post #1417 of 1759 Old 02-15-2017, 08:28 AM
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I know quite a few people who have transitioned to the scs8's who have heard volt's and other coax designs and they all seem quite happy with them. It would be top of my list of commercial offerings to suggest to anyone.

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post #1418 of 1759 Old 02-15-2017, 10:00 AM
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I've got 7 of the volt 10 speakers in my system, 3 of the LX versions as LCR and the surrounds are the original. They sound great to me! They play loud without distortion, and I feel completely enveloped in sound. The LCRs are built into a sound bar that looks clean and unobtrusive.





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Quote:
Originally Posted by biliam1982 View Post
In my searches, they only coaxial speakers I found were Tannoy's and JBL's.

The Tannoy's are kinda pricey but supposedly one of the best.

JBL SCS8's and 12's are more affordable but slightly more than the Volt's.

PM me if you want more info and pricing.
Badman at DiyA has played with the JBL Control 328CT and seemed to like them.
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post #1420 of 1759 Old 02-15-2017, 11:10 AM
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There is also the concentric-8 kit, from DIYSG, that come with the enclosures and crossovers already assembled. http://www.diysoundgroup.com/alpha-k...centric-8.html


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post #1421 of 1759 Old 02-15-2017, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesj View Post
I looked at the TS parameters of the 12 at one point, ages ago... forget the details, but my impression was that it needed a pretty large box to work well, and that the 10 was a better overall compromise.
Compromise? Can't find that word anywhere!

Beta_12CX.pdf

Recomended up to 5.5 cu.ft (158 liter). We can do that...

I asked about this because when Dirac Unison (DRC) will be introduced, it wil be able to use all the speakers in the set to actively produce "counter sounds" against issues from other speakers. So it will work best with full range speakers. Maybe 20 Hz is a bit far fetched, but effortless down to 40 Hz would be my goal.

The 12 seems to have only slightly lower Resonance of 47 vs 49 Hz but it is 3 dB more sensitive which I presume would help down under.

Anyway, I have most of the parts for 4 big (though not 158 liter...) Atmos speakers with the 10 CX so it will heave to do. Going with passive radiators again, as my test stereo set worked out fantastic.

Building a 9.1.6 HT: DIYSG Titan LX [LCR] • Cinema 10 Max [Surrounds] • Volt 10 altered and added passive radiators [Tops] • LLT 550 liter Mal-x 18" subs [2] • XPR-5 • Marantz MM8003 [2] • NU6000 • XMC-1 [RMC-1 with Dirac Unison wanted] • PT AT6000E • 130" Seymour Center XD • Oppo 103EU
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The 10 CX have 5mm Xmax and the 12 CX only have 3.5mm. I'm not sure how much that would have an effect on the output though.


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post #1423 of 1759 Old 02-23-2017, 09:33 AM
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Has anyone heard the volt 10 with the sealed box and one with dual passive radiators? How do they compare?

I was thinking about adding 6 PRs to my sound bar, but not sure if it's worth the ~$150. Also, would having the PRs horizontally aligned instead of vertically aligned with the woofers cause any issues?




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I only have a pair with dual passive radiators. These sound superb, without subs.

A passive radiator can be about anywhere, even on the back. Like these: Klipsch Forte

But I think the box ideally has to be larger than with a sealed box.Volt 10 tips

Building a 9.1.6 HT: DIYSG Titan LX [LCR] • Cinema 10 Max [Surrounds] • Volt 10 altered and added passive radiators [Tops] • LLT 550 liter Mal-x 18" subs [2] • XPR-5 • Marantz MM8003 [2] • NU6000 • XMC-1 [RMC-1 with Dirac Unison wanted] • PT AT6000E • 130" Seymour Center XD • Oppo 103EU

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post #1425 of 1759 Old 02-23-2017, 11:28 AM
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Coaxials: Another DIY Group Project.

Most of the time I run the surround within my sub powered off because the kids are watching cartoons or just tv programs in general. I'll probably just leave it like it is, I plan to eventually get something with a waveguide for the front stage anyway.


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post #1426 of 1759 Old 04-08-2018, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Update with some good news. This group project thread was started about 4 years ago and believe it or not it never really stopped. I'm guessing about 2.5 - 3 years ago I was talking with Eminence about a really neat coaxial.

Their current models have a female threaded insert in the back of a ferrite magnet that allows for a 1" screw on compression driver to be installed on the back of their woofer. Anyone that's ever tested or compared the neo magnet Deltalites or Kappalites knows they're very well designed woofers, magnets, motors, etc. So would it be possible to use them for coaxials the same way as the ferrite models? It turns out Eminence had already been working on the idea but final designs were never really finished up. Maybe they didn't know how demand would be or were busy with other projects first, I'm not really sure.

To make a very long story short......after emails and a few conversations we decided to make this a joint project. Some will be made with custom tooled parts that lean more towards home audio for us DIY guys and they would make some other models for prosound use. So a couple new custom magnet/horn assemblies were made and Eminence used them on multiple coaxial samples over the past year. I didn't want to mention anything here until I was sure the project was going to be done. The good news is that it is going to move forward and last month I sent in a deposit for some of the parts and tooling needed on the home audio models. I asked them if it was a 100% go and if I could mention these new coaxials and they said yes.


Pictures in the next post.
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post #1427 of 1759 Old 04-08-2018, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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These are intended to be used in high end 10", 12", and 15" coaxials. This design started from the powerful Kappalite magnet assembly with some internal parts added and tapped to accept screw-on compression drivers. Lots of work inside there.

I took photos of one of the magnet/horn assemblies before it got cleaned and reinstalled on another sample. It looks a little rough because it's been used in a few samples already.












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post #1428 of 1759 Old 04-08-2018, 12:02 PM
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Those look great, Erich!

Team up the design between DIY SG and Eminence--throw some Neo in the mix to lighten it up and make the driver more compact makes it very tempting. I would ASSume, if you held your mouth right an Uber Volt 10 with neo could drop the weight of the slopped cabinet down to under 20 pounds?

Looking forward to the specs/measurements and weight of the Uber Volts--no rest for the wicked.
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post #1429 of 1759 Old 04-08-2018, 12:26 PM
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High end 15" coax...you have my attention.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
These are intended to be used in high end 10", 12", and 15" coaxials.
This is great news, I had bought a B&C 12" coax to work on a crossover for use as Atmos speakers but hadn't gotten around to it yet. This may prove to be a more viable (and hopefully cheaper) alternative!
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post #1431 of 1759 Old 04-10-2018, 07:09 PM
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high end 15" coaxial from DIYSG! Day = made

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post #1432 of 1759 Old 04-10-2018, 07:11 PM
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@Erich H .... would this also blossom into the base of the long dreamed vortex 3way?

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post #1433 of 1759 Old 04-10-2018, 07:59 PM
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These going to be conical? horn's like BMS coaxials?

thanks!
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post #1434 of 1759 Old 04-12-2018, 10:56 AM
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What about building speakers around like infinity kappa perfect car audio components?
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post #1435 of 1759 Old 04-12-2018, 12:30 PM
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What about building speakers around like infinity kappa perfect car audio components?
Because car audio drivers are designed for, well, cars. They have lower impedance, to require less voltage, and are almost always not suitable for home usage.... or at the very least have a driver of comparable cost that would inevitably be better suited for home audio use.

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post #1436 of 1759 Old 04-14-2018, 06:07 AM
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I put some cheap coaxial car speakers in an old Kef Cresta speaker box (no crossover, straight to the amp), and surprisingly they sounded a lot better than expected, and as good as some old Kef 60s speakers I was using for tv. For surrounds I think they'd work a lot better than most would expect in smaller rooms. I compared (and measured) them to an Eminence 10CX with ASD1001 CD with generic Eminence 2.5k crossover which was certainly better, but not 14 times better which was the price difference.

If you're limited for depth (2 inches), I think they're worth a go, but I expect that most people would baulk at trying it simply because they're car speakers.

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Because car audio drivers are designed for, well, cars. They have lower impedance, to require less voltage, and are almost always not suitable for home usage.... or at the very least have a driver of comparable cost that would inevitably be better suited for home audio use.
It sounds like you have some thing against car audio. Infinity Kappa Perfects sound much, much better than most speakers costing several thousands of dollars. I do wonder what they'd sound like in a parts express cabinet enclosure. Most likely better than a cars

Also I don't care what it was designed for all speakers are are drivers and crossovers and a type of enclosure. Regardless of they are meant for they are all trying to just have a flat response.
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post #1438 of 1759 Old 04-16-2018, 03:20 AM
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Does DIYSG or perhaps Eminance make a 6” or 6.5” coax driver that could be made to work in a car? I wonder if the driver from the Volt 6 or Volt 8 or the Concentric 8 would function well in an automotive envirement such as in a door to a truck or suv? If the enclosure requirements for any of the above based speaker designs would work well in a door then I would love to give them a try.
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post #1439 of 1759 Old 04-16-2018, 05:17 AM
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They may be too heavy, and probably aren't designed with the possibility of moisture which can get inside a car door. If the cone material is paper or similar it may not last too long if that should happen. Condensation is also a possibility other than direct water leaking in.

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post #1440 of 1759 Old 04-16-2018, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Htfunguy View Post
It sounds like you have some thing against car audio. Infinity Kappa Perfects sound much, much better than most speakers costing several thousands of dollars. I do wonder what they'd sound like in a parts express cabinet enclosure. Most likely better than a cars

Also I don't care what it was designed for all speakers are are drivers and crossovers and a type of enclosure. Regardless of they are meant for they are all trying to just have a flat response.
On the contrary, I got my start in car audio and spent years in that game before I owned my own living space where I slowly transitioned into HT vs CA.

Speakers are designed with specific applications in mind. Home theater speakers are designed with a higher impedance. For a two way monitor you usually have two drivers, both rated at some higher impedance so that once you pair them via the crossover, they end up with a nominal 4 ohm (or higher) load to your amp or receiver. Car audio components on the other hand tend to shoot for lower impedance, one that could actually end up doing very bad things your your receiver if you paired them up.

You are correct that most speaker designs are meant to have a flat response. But if you don't understand how cabinet volumes, baffle step correction, and things like that work, you have some reading to do. True, you could probably toss your kappa perfects in a PE box and think that they sound just fine, my only point is there is likely a comparable setup designed for actual home theater use that will be more refined and sound better.

I did many custom installs back in the car audio days, and I assure you, while kappa perfects are some decent speakers, you don't have to try too hard to find better options out there in the HT space.
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