Coaxials: Another DIY Group Project. - Page 58 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 688Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1711 of 1759 Old 08-10-2019, 03:15 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtg90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millbrook, IL
Posts: 2,020
Mentioned: 607 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 826 Post(s)
Liked: 1664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cam Man View Post
@Eric H and @JonfromCB ...good info from both of you. Here is an example of one tech spec that should always be included. I routinely tell a colleague friend who is deeply steeped in high performance speakers and HT in general about DIYSG products. The other day I was telling him about the new Vortex line, and the conversation shifted to my Volt-10s. He asked a very valid question of any speaker design. "Is it designed for free air or half space?" I told him I didn't know whether it was designed for in room or on wall. In this day and age where we still have the fabulous benefits of MEQ xt32 and the Editor App, I suppose I don't give it much thought. But I suspect that a lot of folks also don't use xt32, and if they don't, they need to know this detail. That's an example of what is a very basic spec about every speaker.
The Volts are designed more so for 1/2 space use with limited baffle step correction knowing most will be using them as surrounds mounted on, in or near a wall.

I voiced the Vortex designs using the tower enclosures and tried to find a balance in the bass output between both near wall and pulled away from wall placements. Along with the HF pad option found on many of the DIYSG designs the Vortex crossovers feature a MF Pad option as well which is essentially a partial BSC bypass removing about 1.5-2dB of baffle step correction from the woofer portion of the crossover. That option can be used if the speakers are placed in a corner or on a wall and helps to prevent the bass from becoming too elevated. I added that to the crossover knowing people will have different ideas on how they want to use them and didn't want to limit the design tuning towards a specific placement or use.
Cam Man, Vital, brian6751 and 5 others like this.
mtg90 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1712 of 1759 Old 08-10-2019, 03:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 147 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 924 Post(s)
Liked: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
The Volts are designed more so for 1/2 space use with limited baffle step correction knowing most will be using them as surrounds mounted on, in or near a wall.



I voiced the Vortex designs using the tower enclosures and tried to find a balance in the bass output between both near wall and pulled away from wall placements. Along with the HF pad option found on many of the DIYSG designs the Vortex crossovers feature a MF Pad option as well which is essentially a partial BSC bypass removing about 1.5-2dB of baffle step correction from the woofer portion of the crossover. That option can be used if the speakers are placed in a corner or on a wall and helps to prevent the bass from becoming too elevated. I added that to the crossover knowing people will have different ideas on how they want to use them and didn't want to limit the design tuning towards a specific placement or use.
Speaking of on wall placements, how shallow can the inside depth be on an enclosure for the 15?
J Macker likes this.

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
Red Five is online now  
post #1713 of 1759 Old 08-10-2019, 07:01 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 7,426
Mentioned: 323 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1917 Post(s)
Liked: 2764
I'll measure the depth of the two models tomorrow if I have some spare time.
Red Five likes this.

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1714 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 11:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
GrandPixel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked: 64
Also interested in depth measurements.
GrandPixel is offline  
post #1715 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 03:09 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 1
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 0
The Eminence depths are listed as 6.72" for the 15" coax and 5.63" for the 12". Just add the depth of the compression driver.
psz. is offline  
post #1716 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 03:13 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 403
What if one only wanted these for 60hz+?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
J Macker likes this.
Trimlock is online now  
post #1717 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 03:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtg90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millbrook, IL
Posts: 2,020
Mentioned: 607 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 826 Post(s)
Liked: 1664
There are smaller flatpack cabinets in the works which are better if you don't want or need the the extension and size of the towers.
mtg90 is offline  
post #1718 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 03:55 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Size comparable to the HTM’s?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trimlock is online now  
post #1719 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 03:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 221
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 137 Post(s)
Liked: 42
[QUOTE=mtg90;58410390]There are smaller flatpack cabinets in the works which are better if you don't want or need the the extension and size of the towers.[/

Do you happen to have a rough idea how deep the cabinets will be for the non tower ported version (also is there is a non tower version). That’s all that’s holding me back from hitting the buy button on the 15 version. I just prefer something around 12 inches deep or less for practically. Hoping to mount on wall or I guess find some speaker stands. Either way thanks for creating these monsters.
[email protected] is offline  
post #1720 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 04:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
GrandPixel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 302 Post(s)
Liked: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by psz. View Post
The Eminence depths are listed as 6.72" for the 15" coax and 5.63" for the 12". Just add the depth of the compression driver.


And what is the depth of the compression driver?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
GrandPixel is offline  
post #1721 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 04:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 147 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 924 Post(s)
Liked: 730
My quick napkin math 48"x25.5"x11" should come in close to net 5 cuft. The question is can it fit within 10.25 inches? I hope so

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
Red Five is online now  
post #1722 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 04:07 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
EndersShadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 6,244
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1282 Post(s)
Liked: 1546
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimlock View Post
What if one only wanted these for 60hz+?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The hifi circuit thread says sealed boxes....

http://www.hificircuit.com/community...ker-kits.5622/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trimlock likes this.

My Setup | Custom MiniDSP Build | FS: If its For Sale, find it all (here)
Quote: There exists, for everyone, a sentence - a series of words - that has the power to destroy you. Another sentence exists, another series of words, that could heal you. If you're lucky you will get the 2nd, but you can be certain of getting the 1st. - Philip K. Dick
EndersShadow is online now  
post #1723 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 04:31 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 403
I didn’t notice it before but the 12 (and kind of the 15) has a nasty rise at 3k.

Was this a result of the room?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trimlock is online now  
post #1724 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 04:33 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
My quick napkin math 48"x25.5"x11" should come in close to net 5 cuft. The question is can it fit within 10.25 inches? I hope so


My eyes see 6.1 internal cubic feet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trimlock is online now  
post #1725 of 1759 Old 08-11-2019, 04:56 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Red Five's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,462
Mentioned: 147 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 924 Post(s)
Liked: 730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimlock View Post
My eyes see 6.1 internal cubic feet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Subtract port volume, bracing and then the driver. It will be pretty close.

Stormbreaker | WI HT Meet Thread | The Devastator Index | Mini Devastator Build
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much (before you run out of power, excursion or structural integrity).
7.2.4 | A3070 | XLS 1502 | 3000DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen | 2x Mini Devastators
Red Five is online now  
post #1726 of 1759 Old 08-15-2019, 11:00 AM
Member
 
hum4god's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Wisconsin Dells Wisconsin
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Hi


is it decided yet what flat packs will be offered ? and when they will be available ?


i would also like to get some impressions / comparisons with the titan in a medium small room .
i am playing with both ideas and like that the titan is closer to fullrange , like the directivity control but will never play them louder then 10% of what they are capable of .


regards
malcolm
hum4god is online now  
post #1727 of 1759 Old 08-15-2019, 11:27 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Cutout size?

Hi All,
Is the cutout size the same as the Kappalite 3015?
Thanks,
mlee1 is offline  
post #1728 of 1759 Old 08-18-2019, 12:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
JonfromCB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Council Bluffs Iowa
Posts: 520
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 247 Post(s)
Liked: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimlock View Post
I didn’t notice it before but the 12 (and kind of the 15) has a nasty rise at 3k.

Was this a result of the room?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good question. Of course I haven't heard them, but it appears to be a + or - 3db speaker and wouldn't be surprised if very few would ever, or even be able to notice it with normal listening material.
JonfromCB is offline  
post #1729 of 1759 Old 08-19-2019, 02:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlee1 View Post
Hi All,
Is the cutout size the same as the Kappalite 3015?
Thanks,
The same frame is used as the KL3015CX.
mlee1 is offline  
post #1730 of 1759 Old 09-05-2019, 02:28 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Stereo pair just arrived. Will have to make some quick test CABs. The drivers are light!
mlee1 is offline  
post #1731 of 1759 Old 09-05-2019, 05:37 PM
Member
 
prozach1576's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Any update on the flat packs?
prozach1576 is offline  
post #1732 of 1759 Old 09-05-2019, 06:16 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Got em up and running in old cabs! Installed sealed 1.5 cubic feet, crossed over at 225hz to Open baffle woofers. A bit of shaping needed due to room problems. No jumpers installed on crossover board.

Comparison coming from from 5MDN38 with DE360 in H290C horn. This setup also crossed over at 225hz to open baffle bass........

After 20 min, sounds pretty good. The 3khz dosen't appear to be that troublesome. Top end is a bit rougher than DE360 installed in H290C. My room has something going on at 850hz. Maybe adding the woofer jumper on the crossover board will also bring it up there? EQ boosted that area a bit.

Good imaging. To me sounds like just slightly wider dispersion than 90 by 40 degree horn above 1khz but possibly due to the point source being equal in all directions. Very close in presentation to previous setup. Dynamic, smooth and does not seem harsh. Sounds better when standing than previous setup. The stage position is pretty close to previous setup.

Of course need more time with them. Might try all active at some point but need to get some time on them.
RobertChicken likes this.
mlee1 is offline  
post #1733 of 1759 Old 09-05-2019, 10:04 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
mtg90's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Millbrook, IL
Posts: 2,020
Mentioned: 607 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 826 Post(s)
Liked: 1664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimlock View Post
I didn’t notice it before but the 12 (and kind of the 15) has a nasty rise at 3k.

Was this a result of the room?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The 12" model does have a small bump at 3k but it's still well within +-3dB and that bump flattens out past 10 degrees, I certainly wouldn't call it nasty. If I felt it caused an objectionable issue it would have been addressed but it's hardly noticeable and only when directly on axis, slightly off axis and it's basically non existent.

The 15" design doesn't have an issue at 3k, I don't know anyone could look at the graph below and say that. The frequency response from the midrange through the treble is probably close to +-1.5dB which is better then you will find on most high end speakers.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	15in coax 0-90 degrees.png
Views:	105
Size:	69.4 KB
ID:	2611588  
mtg90 is offline  
post #1734 of 1759 Old 09-07-2019, 01:20 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,290
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 403
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
The 12" model does have a small bump at 3k but it's still well within +-3dB and that bump flattens out past 10 degrees, I certainly wouldn't call it nasty. If I felt it caused an objectionable issue it would have been addressed but it's hardly noticeable and only when directly on axis, slightly off axis and it's basically non existent.



The 15" design doesn't have an issue at 3k, I don't know anyone could look at the graph below and say that. The frequency response from the midrange through the treble is probably close to +-1.5dB which is better then you will find on most high end speakers.


Maybe it was my phone playing tricks on me or something when I was viewing these.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Trimlock is online now  
post #1735 of 1759 Old 11-24-2019, 09:51 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 25
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Does anyone here happen to know what the depth of the vortex 12 is? Woofer plus the compression driver threaded on. I’m trying to determine the shallowest cabinet I can make for some in-wall and in-ceiling installations. I’d prefer a sealed enclosure for these.
catinthehat85 is offline  
post #1736 of 1759 Old 11-26-2019, 04:52 AM
Member
 
prozach1576's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Still hoping for Vortex flat packs!
prozach1576 is offline  
post #1737 of 1759 Old 11-26-2019, 09:08 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by catinthehat85 View Post
Does anyone here happen to know what the depth of the vortex 12 is? Woofer plus the compression driver threaded on. I’m trying to determine the shallowest cabinet I can make for some in-wall and in-ceiling installations. I’d prefer a sealed enclosure for these.
There is a gap when the compression driver is fully screwed in of only a few mm so if you look at the datasheets for the eminence KL3012CX-8 datasheet and the celestion compression driver. Worst case = 143mm + 55mm = 198mm or there abouts.
mlee1 is offline  
post #1738 of 1759 Old 11-26-2019, 09:18 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Canada
Posts: 67
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 32 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Quick update:

Tested the 15" in open baffle application kindof like the spatial audio old M3 style but as a 3-way with another pro 15" for bass support. Dropped the compression driver XOVER to 900hz (I don't play that loud) and 125Hz for woofers. Sounds really nice to my ears.

One thing different is the OB pattern from previous build. The OB now goes up to 900hz as compared with 300hz. More diffused sound presentation. Both sound good, just different. The drivers are very nice and do not regret my purchase.

With the coax I can get the woofer surface area and some pattern control I like, but keep the size of the speaker to reasonable as compared with a 2 way horn.
mlee1 is offline  
post #1739 of 1759 Old 11-26-2019, 11:54 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
jjcook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,110
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 484 Post(s)
Liked: 198
@mtg90 Are the T/S parameters for the Vortex 12 (LF) available?
jjcook is offline  
post #1740 of 1759 Old 11-26-2019, 12:00 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 7,426
Mentioned: 323 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1917 Post(s)
Liked: 2764
Mounting depth on the 12" with the compression driver is 6.5".
LondonBenji likes this.

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply DIY Speakers and Subs

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off