My lilmike MicroWrecker (LilMike's plans in thread) - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 24 Old 01-27-2014, 02:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Let me start with the back story.

I built my home theater back in 2001 and have done a few upgrades to subwoofers since then. I started with a single 10" Titanic kit from Parts Express and added a second identical sub about 6 months later. They were good, but could not get super low, only down to around 26hz. I then built a new sub that replaced one of those 10" kits with a 12" Dayton Audio woofer in a 4 cu ft ported box I made that was tuned to 19hz. I have always wanted to get that fast, effortless bass response you hear in really good sounding commercial theaters and knew I didn’t have that, but it sounded good regardless.

Now fast forward to a few months ago. I started getting the itch to build something else and I started looking around at my options and found lilmike with the MicroWrecker Tapped Horn design which is similar to designs done by Danley Loudspeakers. I remember reading the posts by SandmanX years ago when he was making his theater and how he tried multiple subwoofers but the Danley was the one that stood out producing the best bass. I decided this was the project for me. I got the plans from him and being the mechanical designer that I am, I modeled the whole thing up in Pro-Engineer so I could get my own cut-lists as well as sheet layouts and figure out all the bracing.

I ordered an Alpine SWS-15D2 woofer and went out and bought some plywood and other supplies and went to work. I had Home Depot cut the width of the panels with their panel saw since it’s so much better than me using my table saw at home. It took me a few weeks to get it all assembled as I have other hobbies and activities that also pull at my spare time. I was going to stain the outside with a red mahogany stain and do a flat lacquer finish but after my wife saw the size of the sub, she told me I had to try to “hide” it, and that I needed to instead wrap it in the same fabric we have on the walls. Luckily I still had extra fabric and had enough to get the job done.

After getting it finished, my dad came over and helped me get it upstairs and into the theater and I quickly hooked it up to see if it worked and the beast came to life. I started by sending it some tones that started at 10hz and went up one hz at a time in 10 second intervals (downloaded from http://realtraps.com/test-cd.htm) and you could see the woofer moving, but could not hear it, then it started getting into the regime where it really starts putting out the SPL and it was amazing! Not even broken in and we were hitting over 100db. I have a jumper between the voice coil posts so that the amp sees a 4 ohm load and I am powering it with my Dayton Audio SA1000 subwoofer amp which puts out 950 watts at 4 ohms.

The only measuring equipment I have right now is a Radio Shack SPL meter which drops off substantially below 20hz, so I don't know how high the SPL really is below that, but I can feel it. Someday I will get a measuring mic and use software that will enable me to give real data, but today is not that day.

Here is a screen capture from Pro-E showing the bracing in light blue, the flare parts in gray and the main shell in brown:
Microwrecker2_zpsece2321f.jpg
And a front image:
Microwrecker3_zpsaeb67263.jpg
Here is what it looks like inside:
16_guts_zpsd89e5a4c.jpg

Here are a few finished and installed pics of it:
29_trimmed_zpsda824def.jpg
MniPlex_2014_0121_01_zps3e5019bf.jpg
MniPlex_2014_0121_09_zpscbde6dcd.jpg

Here is my as-measured in-room response (with my limited measuring ability) with the amp’s subsonic filter on and off:
MicroWrecker_post-cal_zpsd4ab8b3e.jpg

I think the room shape is causing the big dip at 36/37hz but that’s as good as I can correct it with my current amp’s limited EQ settings.

Friday night my wife and I did some listening to a bunch of different music and found it is very good for music, not just movies. We cranked up Techmaster P.E.B., Boston Pop’s 1812 Overture, Erich Kunzel’s Spielberg tribute and finished by watching the Eagles “Hell Freezes Over” concert DVD. It has a very fast response that packs a punch and goes very low and seems effortless; which was the main thing I wanted.

I applaud Mike for a great design and his willingness to share it!

Total cost to build was right around $350 (I already had the amp)

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post #2 of 24 Old 01-27-2014, 03:10 PM
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Very nice!! And it does blend well. Good job on that too!
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post #3 of 24 Old 01-27-2014, 05:11 PM
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Nice!

It looks like you are about ready to add a second one. tongue.gif

It will probably help smooth your room response significantly.

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Past Builds: 24" LMS-5400 cube, Anarchy 25Hz Tapped Horn, Danley DTS-10 kit, BFM AutoTuba, BFM THT, BFM THT-LP
Joe's LOWARHORN build, Dual LMS-5400 Ultra Endtables build
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post #4 of 24 Old 01-27-2014, 05:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Joe, I don't think I will be adding a second one unless I were to stack it on the first one and then wrap it in blue fabric (I don't have any of the burgundy left, but plenty of blue) and having it in the same corner would not help the situation!

I do have the 10" Titanic kit in the back middle of the theater still, but was contemplating taking the 12" Dayton Titanic driver out of the 4 cu ft box and making a sealed box for it to go where the 10" one is now. I don't know what I will do yet. The room may have smoother response with the little guy rocking as well, the measurements I took had that little one turned off.

And Michael, thanks for the comment!
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post #5 of 24 Old 01-27-2014, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVonhof View Post

Joe, I don't think I will be adding a second one unless I were to stack it on the first one and then wrap it in blue fabric (I don't have any of the burgundy left, but plenty of blue) and having it in the same corner would not help the situation!

Oh come on! You are in the AVS forum! You need to find a place for a twin! biggrin.gif

Either way, nice job and on a great looking build! cool.gif

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Past Builds: 24" LMS-5400 cube, Anarchy 25Hz Tapped Horn, Danley DTS-10 kit, BFM AutoTuba, BFM THT, BFM THT-LP
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post #6 of 24 Old 01-28-2014, 12:24 PM
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Can you post a cut sheet and demensions?
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post #7 of 24 Old 01-28-2014, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I will check with Mike before posting that. If he is o.k. with it, I am o.k. with it, but I don't want to do it without asking.

My cut sheet is different than Mike's is as I have the bracing in mine and he doesn't show it at all.

Stay tuned.
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post #8 of 24 Old 01-28-2014, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog01 View Post

Can you post a cut sheet and demensions?

+1

...and a modeled FR curve.

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Past Builds: 24" LMS-5400 cube, Anarchy 25Hz Tapped Horn, Danley DTS-10 kit, BFM AutoTuba, BFM THT, BFM THT-LP
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post #9 of 24 Old 01-28-2014, 02:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Here is an image showing dimensions. I have not heard back from Mike yet on the cut sheet and such.

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post #10 of 24 Old 01-28-2014, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW, I ran my modest test again and this time, had the rear sub (Titanic 10" kit running). It smoothed out the one big dip some:
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post #11 of 24 Old 01-29-2014, 08:45 AM
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I think you should stop resisting and start building. You can't have an only child.biggrin.gif

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Past Builds: 24" LMS-5400 cube, Anarchy 25Hz Tapped Horn, Danley DTS-10 kit, BFM AutoTuba, BFM THT, BFM THT-LP
Joe's LOWARHORN build, Dual LMS-5400 Ultra Endtables build
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post #12 of 24 Old 01-29-2014, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVonhof View Post

I will check with Mike before posting that. If he is o.k. with it, I am o.k. with it, but I don't want to do it without asking.

My cut sheet is different than Mike's is as I have the bracing in mine and he doesn't show it at all.

Stay tuned.

I'm happy to share what I have got, please understand that this is a work in progress. I still haven't found the "ideal" driver to use.

The design of the cabinet is by no means finished, and I still haven't completed a proper suite of measurements on the test mule.

With all that is going on in lilmike's world right now, it is not likely that there will be significant progress on this project any time soon, and I won't be able to provide the level of support that I have in the past.

And - most importantly - Excellent work! The sub looks great.

The attached file is what I sent Scott to work with (as well as anyone else that has received plans via email). It contains the instructions, cut sheet, layout, scaled plans, and the V2.4A Hornresp model loaded with the CVX 15 that I'm using in mine (10CVX154).

MicroWrecker2.4A.zip 1665k .zip file
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File Type: zip MicroWrecker2.4A.zip (1.63 MB, 741 views)
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post #13 of 24 Old 01-30-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

I'm happy to share what I have got, please understand that this is a work in progress. I still haven't found the "ideal" driver to use.

The design of the cabinet is by no means finished, and I still haven't completed a proper suite of measurements on the test mule.

With all that is going on in lilmike's world right now, it is not likely that there will be significant progress on this project any time soon, and I won't be able to provide the level of support that I have in the past.

And - most importantly - Excellent work! The sub looks great.

The attached file is what I sent Scott to work with (as well as anyone else that has received plans via email). It contains the instructions, cut sheet, layout, scaled plans, and the V2.4A Hornresp model loaded with the CVX 15 that I'm using in mine (10CVX154).

MicroWrecker2.4A.zip 1665k .zip file
In your opinion, what do you feel it lacking/missing with the CVX15 in the current design? I hope whatever is going on in your world is a good thing!
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post #14 of 24 Old 01-30-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Mitten View Post

In your opinion, what do you feel it lacking/missing with the CVX15 in the current design? I hope whatever is going on in your world is a good thing!

The CVX is not a "clean" driver, the distortion is high, particularly 2nd harmonic.

It's also a bit limited on linear throw, but it does have great mechanical clearances.

Oh - no worries, things are generally good. Just super busy with my remodel, as well as the day jobs.
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post #15 of 24 Old 01-30-2014, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

The CVX is not a "clean" driver, the distortion is high, particularly 2nd harmonic.

It's also a bit limited on linear throw, but it does have great mechanical clearances.

Oh - no worries, things are generally good. Just super busy with my remodel, as well as the day jobs.
Good to hear you're doing OK and it's just a busy thing.

Thanks for remarks about the driver. I'm a very analytical person and always want to know what makes something tick. The lean six-sigma mindset I have, wants to figure out how to improve 'the system' or in this case the enclosure and/or driver.
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post #16 of 24 Old 01-30-2014, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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I was looking up information on the CVX15 and saw that it first came out in 2006. That alone does not bode well for it. Plus, it's 2X the cost of the Alpine I got which seems very good. It would be interesting to do side-by-side comparisons, but that takes somebody willing to fork out the cash and take the time to do it which is hard. And if the mounting hole and screw holes are different, you may need a different box as well which makes it even harder. The spec sheet doesn't have any information on the screw bolt pattern diameter or # of screws so it's hard to tell if it's a direct bolt-in replacement.
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post #17 of 24 Old 01-31-2014, 10:05 AM
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The CVX was refreshed significantly in 2010, so it isn't "that" old. It has a pretty basic motor design, but for what it is, it works well enough that I haven't felt the urge to replace mine.

The distortion characteristics are interesting. I'm really not sure what is causing it, it may be due to motor or suspension non-linearity, some of it may be due to the cabinet design too.

At their street price two years ago, The CVXs were a great choice for a HT tapped horn driver. Now? The Alpine Type S 15 is the value leader, and at the CVX's street price from an authorized dealer, there are plenty of other drivers that I would turn to first. I haven't had the chance to work with or test any of the other options yet though, and as I stated earlier, that's not likely for some time to come.
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post #18 of 24 Old 01-31-2014, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mitten View Post

Good to hear you're doing OK and it's just a busy thing.

Thanks for remarks about the driver. I'm a very analytical person and always want to know what makes something tick. The lean six-sigma mindset I have, wants to figure out how to improve 'the system' or in this case the enclosure and/or driver.

"I want bigger subs. Sadly, they don't fit in the room currently. So...I'm building a new room."

I meant it when I said it about 18 months ago, it just took me a little longer than I thought it would to get things underway. I'm well past the point of no return now.
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post #19 of 24 Old 01-31-2014, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post

"I want bigger subs. Sadly, they don't fit in the room currently. So...I'm building a new room."

I meant it when I said it about 18 months ago, it just took me a little longer than I thought it would to get things underway. I'm well past the point of no return now.
My brother is building me the lilwrecker. I'm leaving it the natural birch color so it can somewhat blend into my walls. If that's even possible with a beast like that. He's also building your T-6, which I'll use for music. I have some cool plans for that as far as the finish goes. I'm hoping it will match up well with my set of Fostex horns.
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post #20 of 24 Old 03-03-2014, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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BTW, I continue to be very impressed with this design. Watching movies as well as the Olympics Opening Ceremonies have been really nice with the extra bass that this puts out. It blends in well with the other speakers and is just effortless in it's sound.
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post #21 of 24 Old 07-18-2014, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
The CVX was refreshed significantly in 2010, so it isn't "that" old. It has a pretty basic motor design, but for what it is, it works well enough that I haven't felt the urge to replace mine.

The distortion characteristics are interesting. I'm really not sure what is causing it, it may be due to motor or suspension non-linearity, some of it may be due to the cabinet design too.

At their street price two years ago, The CVXs were a great choice for a HT tapped horn driver. Now? The Alpine Type S 15 is the value leader, and at the CVX's street price from an authorized dealer, there are plenty of other drivers that I would turn to first. I haven't had the chance to work with or test any of the other options yet though, and as I stated earlier, that's not likely for some time to come.
For us driver n00bs, can you be more specific as to the model of the Alpine Type S 15? There are apparently different ohm models?
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post #22 of 24 Old 07-18-2014, 03:04 PM
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Pick the impedance that is best suited to your amp, either version of the Type S 15 works.

The following is a bit oversimplified, as the system's resonances will significantly increase impedance. It does give a safe estimate of the minimum though.

Dual 2, coils in parallel for a 1 ohm load
Dual 4, coils in parallel for a 2 ohm load
Dual 2, coils in series for a 4 ohm load
Dual 4, coils in series for an 8 ohm load

I run a dual 4 CVX, with the coils in series for an 8-ohm load. I power it with my iNuke 3000 DSP bridged mono, and I have a 20 Hz highpass in place.

No issues at all for me, and I have pushed it plenty hard.
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post #23 of 24 Old 07-19-2014, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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As Mike says, it depends on your amp (and how many drivers you plan to push with it). If you are doing dual MicroWreckers with one amp, you need to see what the amp can handle and go from there. The Alpine owners manual has a really good graphic of how to hook them up and what the impedance will be (page 2 and 3 for the different drivers):
http://support.alpine-usa.com/produc...01215_D4_2.pdf

BTW, I am still over the moon with this sub. I had to manage more rattles as they annoyed me during intense scenes of "Gravity" and such (recessed can eyeball style lights).
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post #24 of 24 Old 01-27-2017, 01:41 PM
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nice build!
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