Crown XLS vs Behringer iNuke -A mostly subjective comparison. - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 62 Old 02-09-2014, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Background:
Last Spring I was building a sub comprised of one of Erich’s 3cuft flat packs and the newly released Dayton Audio UM15-22 and as part of the build I needed to buy an amplifier. I wanted a stand-alone amplifier, because I could also then use it drive a pair of PA speakers for entertaining (birthday and graduation parties) and as an amp for my son’s guitar. At the time, the three amplifiers under consideration were; Behringer NU1000dsp, Crown XLS1000 and the Carvin HD1000. The Behringer had limited connection options, although that could be remedied with adaptors, and had fan noise issues. The Carvin just had very limited information, reviews and resources available online therefore I was not comfortable going that route. I bought the Crown.

Upon receiving the Crown I was very impressed with how it drove the Ultimax, but the engineer in me wanted to know more. Using the only equipment on hand, a DVM, and 60Hz test tones I measured 69 Vrms. That measurement paired with the impedance from Dayton’s datasheet, 4.5ohms at 60Hz, resulted in 1058W. Keep in mind this measurement does not take distortion into consideration. I was quite happy with the overall results of the subwoofer/amplifier pairing and using REW could see the response extended to 12Hz (room gain), but I did have significant bump in the 40Hz region. Of course this made me think of the Behringer iNuke again.

Today:
As many of you who regularly visit this forum know, rarely it is one project and done and now I’m thinking about building another subwoofer. Why……because it’s fun, it’s a sickness, bigger is better, I have more money than I know what to do with……..yes....except for the last one. Anyhow, the plan was not more than a thought really and then those nasty online retailers put the iNukes on sale and I bought one…….a Behringer nu3000dsp.

Well with the iNuke in place of the Crown I was able to totally eliminate the resonance at 40Hz and now I’m able to actually increase the volume without things vibrating all over the house like before. I was very impressed with the DSP capabilities of the iNuke and since one would have to step up to the Crown XTi 2 series at almost double the cost is something to consider. The iNuke should, if both manufacturers’ specifications are accurate and comparable, have almost twice the power of the Crown. Subjectively, the Behringer has more power, but I have no means to test it. The only load I have is the Dayton UM15-22 and I’m afraid of pushing it too hard with the iNuke as the Crown XLS1000 was already near the limits of the UM15 when driving with a constant test tone.

As mentioned earlier, I occasionally use these amplifiers to drive a pair of dual 12” PA speakers and both the Crown and the Behringer handle this task with ease. Again, the iNuke seems to have significantly more power. One thing to note though is that both of these amplifiers generate very noticeable high frequency noise (hiss) when used full range and, at least in my mind, would not be suitable in a high fidelity 2-channel or surround sound application. Looking at the specs, this makes sense as the S/N ratios are both 97-98dB as compared to my primary system’s amplifier which has an S/N ratio of 122dB. That said, I realize the amplifiers have different purposes.

I’m not sure I intended this post to get this long originally, so I’ll wrap it up with some pros and cons relative to each amplifier. One more note, I paid approximately the same price for both amplifiers, $255 for the Crown XLS1000 and $279 for the Behringer nu3000dsp, so I think it is fair to compare these two amplifiers. Well the Crown has more +’s, but it’s not that simple and in the end I’m not yet sure which I prefer……perhaps time will tell.

Behringer NU3000dsp
+DSP capabilities and software
+Easily configurable amplifier modes/configuration
+Configuration presets in amp and computer
+More power
+Price
-Silver color (why can’t they make these black)
-Limited input/output connectors
-Overly bright LEDs
-Subjective build quality
-Behringer reputation (reliability)
-Fan noise (although this can be remedied somewhat with a fan swap……but voids warranty)
-Tiny heatsinks (cause for louder fan?)

Crown XLS1000
+Build quality
+Crown reputation (reliability)
+Easily configurable amplifier modes/configuration
+Vast array of input/output connections
+LEDs preferred to above
+Absolutely no fan noise; most of the time it isn’t even spinning
+More substantial heatsinks
-Less power
-Relative price
-Color (as above)

My iNuke fan experiences:http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-amps-high-pass-filters/52124-behringer-inuke-nu1000-amp-amplifier-fan-swap-how-w-pics-3.html#post678702
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post #2 of 62 Old 02-09-2014, 12:22 PM
 
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I don't see the point of comparing the weakest amp in the Crown XLS line to the Inuke 3000 which was bench tested at close to 440 watts per channel @ 8ohms. A fair comparison would have been the Crown XLS 2500. They are nearly equals in terms of power. For dollars per watts, Behringer is by far the industry leader.
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post #3 of 62 Old 02-09-2014, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Understood and I mentioned the comparison was based on cost not power and many of the other comparison areas are still valid. Beside they are what I have on hand.
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post #4 of 62 Old 02-09-2014, 12:39 PM
 
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Ok I can understand a comparison based on cost.
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post #5 of 62 Old 02-09-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

I don't see the point of comparing the weakest amp in the Crown XLS line to the Inuke 3000 which was bench tested at close to 440 watts per channel @ 8ohms. A fair comparison would have been the Crown XLS 2500. They are nearly equals in terms of power. For dollars per watts, Behringer is by far the industry leader.

Do you have a link to that test?

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post #6 of 62 Old 02-09-2014, 12:58 PM
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From what I've of read the nu6000 on a 30amp breaker will output 1-2kW per channel for 1-10 seconds, both channels driven at either 8 or 4 ohms; and draws 22-24amps RMS from the wall to make that number.
After 7-10 seconds the power level better drop back down to 700watts RMS otherwise the 12amp RMS circuit breaker on the back of the amp trips.
So it is able to trip a 15amp breaker under heavy conditions, but as long as you keep it to 700watts RMS it will output that for days. (or so I've read)

That's pretty good for a 4-500 dollar amp.
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post #7 of 62 Old 02-09-2014, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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post #8 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 01:34 AM
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I see reference to inukes build quality being a negative . Is this backed up with shorter lifespans then the crown , or is it to early to tell ? I have two inuke3000dsp and I would hope to get 6-8 years out of them. I don't drive them crazy. Should my expectations be lower for lifespan ?
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post #9 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 07:46 AM
 
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Too early to know. But I would not expect more than 3 years out of them.
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post #10 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

Too early to know. But I would not expect more than 3 years out of them.

That sucks!! I have two 3000DSPs
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post #11 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 09:30 AM
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"Too early to know. But I would not expect more than 3 years out of them."

?

based on what?

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #12 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 11:25 AM
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+1
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

based on what?

Noah
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post #13 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Too early to know. But I would not expect more than 3 years out of them."

?

based on what?

Internet FUD (anecdotal supposition) comes to mind.
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post #14 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolephile View Post

Too early to know. But I would not expect more than 3 years out of them.

While opinions are good things...stating them as facts is not so good. People here are sensitive (almost overly so) because they put so much passion into it. Making broad sweeping statements like that never do well.

I must be guilty because people say I am guilty because they chose to call me guilty because they refuse to see the truth. Much easier to be part of the mob..
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post #15 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 02:55 PM
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I thought the inuke series was about 3 years old. I am aware that the case is cheap looking but when I did the fan swap the parts looked ok ( but I really don't know the difference between good looking capacitors and cheapies). Which parts would be likely to go first ? Power supply ?
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post #16 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 03:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willie View Post

Internet FUD (anecdotal supposition) comes to mind.

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post #17 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 03:16 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n View Post

While opinions are good things...stating them as facts is not so good. People here are sensitive (almost overly so) because they put so much passion into it. Making broad sweeping statements like that never do well.

I typed ''too early to know'' which was followed by a speculative statement.(my opinion)
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post #18 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 03:22 PM
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To be fair, I would not be surprised at all to find out that there were plenty of field failures within 3 years on these things - in the sound reinforcement segment they are being sold for. HT usage is like displaying them behind glass in a museum, by comparison, in terms of how much of a beating they receive.
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post #19 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 03:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Too early to know. But I would not expect more than 3 years out of them."

?

based on what?

My speculative statement is based on how guys around here use their amps. Specifically when it comes to fan mods. The Inuke units are already gutted bare minimum amps when it comes to component quality in my opinion. No heatsinks etc.

Then compound this with guys altering the engineers design by using different fans from spec. Every Inuke I sold to other members who did fan mods began to have operating issues.

I love the Inuke series but I believe they are a barebones amp series where cheaper components were used to meet a ultra low price for the high wattage they produce.

Which is fine. I love their no frills design and the insane value they offer. However I feel that altering an already barebones design will shorten the amp's lifespan.
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post #20 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post

"Too early to know. But I would not expect more than 3 years out of them."

?

based on what?

+1

I can't imagine them not lasting indefinitely.

But, your point is valid regarding the fan mod. Heat kills, it's just that simple. So, if you push it hard for long periods with a fan mod you will undoubtedly shorten the life span.

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post #21 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post

To be fair, I would not be surprised at all to find out that there were plenty of field failures within 3 years on these things - in the sound reinforcement segment they are being sold for. HT usage is like displaying them behind glass in a museum, by comparison, in terms of how much of a beating they receive.

Completely agree. I highly doubt anyone here is pushing their amp the way it was meant to be used. They're not at any sort of live venue that needs huge amounts of sound. It's HT use or driving subs. You have short peaks, but mostly it's sitting their idle.

I can say though that the CrownXLS1500 that I have never seems to break a sweat. Even when I used it for parties at school, I always knew I could go louder. It was that my ears couldn't handle it lol. And that was with HT speakers. I couldn't imagine if I hooked up more sensitive speakers like a lot of the DIY speakers. If you're really worried about them lasting, I'd just pay a little extra and get the Crown XLS series (if you don't need the DSP and stuff). Then you don't have to worry about doing mods or anything.

Considering how expensive HomeTheater amps are compared to Pro Amps, If I only got 3 years out of an inuke, that's still better than paying the ridiculous prices I would need to get similar power from other Home Theater Amp Brands.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post

I see reference to inukes build quality being a negative . Is this backed up with shorter lifespans then the crown , or is it to early to tell ? I have two inuke3000dsp and I would hope to get 6-8 years out of them. I don't drive them crazy. Should my expectations be lower for lifespan ?

OP here. This reference is just based on information/opinions/gossip I've gathered while researching. I've never owned Behringer or Crown equipment before, so I have no personal experience.
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post #23 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 04:19 PM
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I must admit I hadn't thought of the fan mod issue. Maybe a point there too.

full disclosure edit: fedex just now brought my NU3000DSP from the recent sale, and I fully intend to do some kind of fan mod biggrin.gif
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post #24 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antisuck View Post

I must admit I hadn't thought of the fan mod issue. Maybe a point there too.

full disclosure edit: fedex just now brought my NU3000DSP from the recent sale, and I fully intend to do some kind of fan mod biggrin.gif

My 6000DSP shipped today as well. I am looking forward to putting it through its paces. I will definitely be doing a fan mod immediately.

At these prices, they are disposable when compared to many pro amps.

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post #25 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 07:07 PM
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I keep an eye on the clipping light and make sure its just flickering a few times during a loud scene and not on for 2-3 seconds straight . The fan mod I did improved the airflow. I didn't cheap out like behinger did with a five dollar fan. I put in a.noctua that although quiet puts more air on the parts. I also tweaked the cover shield so it flows better.

I do know that its not going to last like my parasound amp. At sub 300 bucks if it lasts longer then 5 years its gravy for me. Its like bryston and there 20 year warranty . Not really a deal when you pay 5-10 k for the amp.
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post #26 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 07:36 PM - Thread Starter
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The Behringer OEM fan is a Bi-Sonic BP802512HL-03 and while loud provides 55.53 CFM. http://elcodis.com/parts/2846125/BP802512HL-03-W.html

The Noctua NF-R8 fan generates 31 CFM. I bought a Vantec Stealth fan that is 27 CFM. Both the Noctua and the Vantec are very quiet, but I'm concerned that they do not supply enough air.
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post #27 of 62 Old 02-10-2014, 09:13 PM
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Find some failures. I've not searched for them but I've heard of none on these forums, and they certainly aren't common.

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post #28 of 62 Old 02-11-2014, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey019 View Post

The Behringer OEM fan is a Bi-Sonic BP802512HL-03 and while loud provides 55.53 CFM. http://elcodis.com/parts/2846125/BP802512HL-03-W.html

The Noctua NF-R8 fan generates 31 CFM. I bought a Vantec Stealth fan that is 27 CFM. Both the Noctua and the Vantec are very quiet, but I'm concerned that they do not supply enough air.
I wouldn't be too concerned. Most PA amps are run hard with up to 1/3 rated power (average) so it needs to get rid of a lot of heat constantly. A subs amp will have some periods of high output then long periods of little to no activity so the heat generated is nowhere near as high or constant.

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post #29 of 62 Old 02-11-2014, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey019 View Post

The Behringer OEM fan is a Bi-Sonic BP802512HL-03 and while loud provides 55.53 CFM. http://elcodis.com/parts/2846125/BP802512HL-03-W.html

The Noctua NF-R8 fan generates 31 CFM. I bought a Vantec Stealth fan that is 27 CFM. Both the Noctua and the Vantec are very quiet, but I'm concerned that they do not supply enough air.

You can't just look at fan CFM. That is like looking at a speaker in an open air environment and think the measurements you get there will be the same in your house. Many times fans are also sized to create a positive pressure relative to their inlet/outlet size. This keeps dust out. You would be surprised at how little air turbulence and flow you need to greatly improve the ability of a heat-sink. If you want to...get a cheap multi-meter with a thermocouple input. Use a bit of hot glue to hold it in place near the silicon and see what the difference is. My "guess" is the fans are also somewhat sized to push more air because these amplifiers might be in a rack stacked with other amps. Therefore the ambient air temperature might be elevated significantly (+20 degrees or more) by time the outside air gets to the PA. The only way to compensate for this is to push more "air" past PA heatsinks to compensate. It is not a simple problem.

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post #30 of 62 Old 02-11-2014, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitey019 View Post

The Behringer OEM fan is a Bi-Sonic BP802512HL-03...

In my iNuke 6000 the stocks fans were NMB Tech 3110KL and were rated at 46 CFM, 4000RPM, static pressure of 66.0 Pa and a noise level of 40dB. I replaced it with another NMB fan rated at 36 CFM, 2700 RPM, static pressure of 29.0 Pa and a noise level of 26dB. This works for my situation...smile.gif
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