Vertical Marty build thread - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 115 Old 07-17-2014, 10:37 PM
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Hell yea!


So momentary red flashes of the red light, when you're very loud volumes are okay … But you don't want to see them constantly lit.

I would start by recalibrating your subs output.. Nothing wrong with running it a few decibels hot if you'd like to… 3db or so should add a little bit of extra punch, and not get into trouble.

If what I wrote doesn't make sense, just let me know and I'll clarify

Last edited by kevings; 07-18-2014 at 11:22 AM.
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post #62 of 115 Old 07-18-2014, 11:47 AM
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Inertia,

I was just looking over all of your pics again today. You did a really nice job with the belt sander, and your Duratex finish looks good/was nicely applied.

I know last night you didn't really get to enjoy the sub since you had to get some sleep, but today is Friday and we've got a nice weekend ahead of us. Make sure you get it dialed in nicely, and enjoy it.

It really did come out awesome. There is just something so kick a$$ about a big black ominous looking subwoofer, with a big mean 18 mounted front facing.

Be sure to post a pic or 2 after you get the sub put into it's permanent position.
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post #63 of 115 Old 07-18-2014, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevings View Post
Inertia,
I was just looking over all of your pics again today. You did a really nice job with the belt sander, and your Duratex finish looks good/was nicely applied.
I know last night you didn't really get to enjoy the sub since you had to get some sleep, but today is Friday and we've got a nice weekend ahead of us. Make sure you get it dialed in nicely, and enjoy it.
It really did come out awesome. There is just something so kick a$$ about a big black ominous looking subwoofer, with a big mean 18 mounted front facing.
Be sure to post a pic or 2 after you get the sub put into it's permanent position.
Thanks a lot And thanks for sticking with me.
Honestly it could have used another coat of duratex because you can see seams in the previous pictures out in the sunlight, but it's not really noticable in my room so I don't care.








Is it normal for the inuke to lose settings every time it's turned off? Does everyone just leave them on all the time? I don't find the fan all that loud at all.

I hooked up REW and ran some measurements and applied some EQ based off chaluga's Basic REW for inuke tutorial.
I ran one before adjusting anything, seen in blue
Then I applied filters in the DSP software and came up with the red line.
Then I actually ran YPAO to allow it to let it adjust levels and distances and stuff. I then used to test tones through the receiver to level match everything using the UMIK-1 and my laptop as the SPL meter. YPAO doesn't do anything to eq the subs.
I then came up with the purple line. Previously I wasn't using the HSU VTF-15H; I just wanted to measure the marty alone, but the purple includes both. I had to invert the phase on the HSU to get a smooth line. At least, I think the graphs are OK. No amount of PEQ seemed to bring down the spike at ~54hz or bring up ~43. I could keep messing with it but I don't know if it matters all that much. I'm not too keen on these graphs yet - I'd love some opinions on them.

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post #64 of 115 Old 07-18-2014, 06:24 PM
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Don't worry about 43hz. You should be able to bring down 54hz. You put a peq at 54 with -5 dB's at q of 1.5 ?

How does the Marty compare to the hsu ?
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post #65 of 115 Old 07-18-2014, 06:58 PM
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your amp isnt holding the settings because im guessing your not storing them properly. Are you adjusting settings on the amplifier itself, or are you connecting to the amp via a laptop or computer and using the inuke software?
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post #66 of 115 Old 07-18-2014, 08:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Don't worry about 43hz. You should be able to bring down 54hz. You put a peq at 54 with -5 dB's at q of 1.5 ?

How does the Marty compare to the hsu ?
I'd have to look again but I think there's already total of -12db at 54hz. That was the first filter REW produced. I didn't adjust the Q. Reading Kevin's post though makes me think I'm not actually applying anything on the amp.
As for the comparison, honestly I can't tell much of a difference :/
I will say it sounds cleaner and seems effortless overall. Playing familiar songs and movie scenes sounds mostly the same with maybe a little more impact. What I really need is to hear someone else's setup so I know what to listen for and what to expect... As far as I can tell I don't have anything setup or configured improperly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevings View Post
your amp isnt holding the settings because im guessing your not storing them properly. Are you adjusting settings on the amplifier itself, or are you connecting to the amp via a laptop or computer and using the inuke software?
Using the software. I adjust all the settings, save the Preset, and close the software, unplug the USB. All the settings are there. And it's a pain in the ass using the buttons and little menu on the amp so I'm not even going to try. If I turn the amp on and off, everything is reset, so I have to plug it back in to the laptop and reload the preset. So it just stays on. Am I missing something?


edit:
some of these are leftover from just playing around. They didn't seem to have much (any) effect on the graphs so I just left them

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post #67 of 115 Old 07-18-2014, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in3rtia View Post
I'd have to look again but I think there's already total of -12db at 54hz. That was the first filter REW produced. I didn't adjust the Q. Reading Kevin's post though makes me think I'm not actually applying anything on the amp.
As for the comparison, honestly I can't tell much of a difference :/
I will say it sounds cleaner and seems effortless overall. Playing familiar songs and movie scenes sounds mostly the same with maybe a little more impact. What I really need is to hear someone else's setup so I know what to listen for and what to expect... As far as I can tell I don't have anything setup or configured improperly.


Using the software. I adjust all the settings, save the Preset, and close the software, unplug the USB. All the settings are there. And it's a pain in the ass using the buttons and little menu on the amp so I'm not even going to try. If I turn the amp on and off, everything is reset, so I have to plug it back in to the laptop and reload the preset. So it just stays on. Am I missing something?


edit:
some of these are leftover from just playing around. They didn't seem to have much (any) effect on the graphs so I just left them

if you don't notice a big improvement over the hsu then you definitely don't have it setup right. will figure it out.
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post #68 of 115 Old 07-19-2014, 04:40 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
if you don't notice a big improvement over the hsu then you definitely don't have it setup right. will figure it out.
I welcome any ideas. I've sort of accepted that I don't get monster bass in my room for whatever reason. I didn't notice a ton of improvement when I went from a VTF-3 to dual VTF-15H. Same thing this time around. How can I use REW to check max performance capabilities?

One question about the amp: since I have the limiter at ~750 watts, when I see the clipping lights does that mean I'm approaching that 750 limit, or some other limit? Since many people run these subs with more wattage, Can I not worry about the light all? I barely see any lights with music but at the same volume, the tank-pounding scene in Nemo keeps the red lights fully lit...
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post #69 of 115 Old 07-19-2014, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Don't worry about 43hz. You should be able to bring down 54hz. You put a peq at 54 with -5 dB's at q of 1.5 ?

How does the Marty compare to the hsu ?
Has the OP considered that the peak at 54hz and the dip at 43hz might possibly be reflections that would require room treatments?
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post #70 of 115 Old 07-19-2014, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in3rtia View Post
I welcome any ideas. I've sort of accepted that I don't get monster bass in my room for whatever reason. I didn't notice a ton of improvement when I went from a VTF-3 to dual VTF-15H. Same thing this time around. How can I use REW to check max performance capabilities?

One question about the amp: since I have the limiter at ~750 watts, when I see the clipping lights does that mean I'm approaching that 750 limit, or some other limit? Since many people run these subs with more wattage, Can I not worry about the light all? I barely see any lights with music but at the same volume, the tank-pounding scene in Nemo keeps the red lights fully lit...
why limit the si 18 at 750. its safe to run at 1100 watts. the red light should flicker but not come on for 2 seconds straight.
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post #71 of 115 Old 07-19-2014, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
Has the OP considered that the peak at 54hz and the dip at 43hz might possibly be reflections that would require room treatments?
he's not getting any good SPL at any frequency it seems so far. need to figure out that before worrying about other stuff.
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post #72 of 115 Old 07-19-2014, 05:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
why limit the si 18 at 750. its safe to run at 1100 watts. the red light should flicker but not come on for 2 seconds straight.
That's what I didn't know. Couldn't find what wattage this thing could safely take.
But does that mean at 750 the clip light is meaningless or is it still potentially damaging?

I'm out of town all day but I'll put the limiter at 1100 when I get home tonight
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post #73 of 115 Old 07-19-2014, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in3rtia View Post
That's what I didn't know. Couldn't find what wattage this thing could safely take.
But does that mean at 750 the clip light is meaningless or is it still potentially damaging?

I'm out of town all day but I'll put the limiter at 1100 when I get home tonight
as long as your only flickering the red light a couple of times a movie your fine. during heavy bass scenes it should hit three lights often. I haven't followed your thread. don't know your room size, and other stuff.
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post #74 of 115 Old 07-19-2014, 05:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
as long as your only flickering the red light a couple of times a movie your fine. during heavy bass scenes it should hit three lights often. I haven't followed your thread. don't know your room size, and other stuff.
No worries, I can upload room layout pictures tonight
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post #75 of 115 Old 07-19-2014, 01:20 PM
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As much as I want to try, I think I need to leave the sub where it is in the garage because there's no way I can get it into my house alone. Gotta wait for my buddy to get home.
But I think I'm finally done. As I drilled the last screw in I was thinking "man I know I must have missed something..."


Starting the duratex:




Bad idea fly... he was stuck there by the time I saw him




All tex'd:




Connected the positive of one terminal to the negative the other to wire it up for 4-ohms. Obviously the remaining pos/neg will connect to the speakon.




Driver is in




And here she sits on her cart, all I can do is roller her around. No way I'm getting up the two small steps to my house alone




I gotta run to dinner now so while I go eat and wait for my friend to get home, you guys look at my previous post and check my amp settings and make sure I'm doing everything right!






Here you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_hc_eVRX-E
pfs!!!

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #76 of 115 Old 07-20-2014, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I bumped the limiter to 1000 watts and messed with REW and DSP some more.
For the amp settings, I realized that loading the PC presets didn't store themselves in the amp until I created the Amp preset. Now it saves the settings on shutdown.

Anyway here's what I got


Blue is just the marty before any EQ
Green is just the marty with EQ
Purple is with the HSU also in the mix, with a little more EQ.



With these settings. I had to mess with the Q a lot to achieve any real adjustment of the graph




This is what the room looks like, with me sitting over there with the REW setup



And from the MLP






Just for laughs I put the UMIK where I was sitting and ran another measurement. It produced this:



I assume that's because of the phase difference between the marty and the HSU... I don't really know what I can do about that.


If I crank the volume on the receiver and run another measurement will that give me a good idea of the max performance of this thing?
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post #77 of 115 Old 07-20-2014, 01:37 PM
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Take a measurement from mlp with just Marty. Don't crank test tones , it could fry your sub. Do you have hpf on ?
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post #78 of 115 Old 07-20-2014, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
Take a measurement from mlp with just Marty. Don't crank test tones , it could fry your sub. Do you have hpf on ?
See the green line in the graph above.
High pass filter at 16hz as according to ltd02's tutorial.
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post #79 of 115 Old 07-20-2014, 07:27 PM
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Can you run REW down to 5-10 on bottom? Also I thought a 3000 could easily run two of these....what's up with the clipping on one?
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post #80 of 115 Old 07-20-2014, 07:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomassiv View Post
Can you run REW down to 5-10 on bottom?
Can you elaborate on that please, I'm not sure what you mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomassiv View Post
Also I thought a 3000 could easily run two of these....what's up with the clipping on one?
I just watched War of the Worlds and had to lower the volume on the receiver to -10 from -5 and knock the gain knob back a notch on the 3000 otherwise I saw the red light a little too often. :/
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post #81 of 115 Old 07-21-2014, 08:31 AM
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Set the start point of your graph down to 5 or 10hz. I was wondering about the drop off after the filter was hit at 16hz.

Maybe someone else will chime in about the clipping. I have talked to people that have said this while running two subs but not one with the 3000. Of course it could be the levels you are listening but that would be surprising.
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post #82 of 115 Old 07-21-2014, 08:35 AM
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Makes me wonder if like you mentions earlier that the lights are showing you reaching the limiter (watts) you have set and not the overall amp capacity.
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post #83 of 115 Old 07-21-2014, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomassiv View Post
Set the start point of your graph down to 5 or 10hz. I was wondering about the drop off after the filter was hit at 16hz.

Maybe someone else will chime in about the clipping. I have talked to people that have said this while running two subs but not one with the 3000. Of course it could be the levels you are listening but that would be surprising.
Oh gotcha. I'll try to set it up today after work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomassiv View Post
Makes me wonder if like you mentions earlier that the lights are showing you reaching the limiter (watts) you have set and not the overall amp capacity.
That's what I'm hoping. I really just don't want to damage the driver
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post #84 of 115 Old 07-21-2014, 10:18 AM
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im currently running 3 si18's off of 2 inuke3kdsps....

I have the limiter set to 1100 watts. I typically watch movies at -5db. I rarely see the red lights, in fact I dont think i can recall the last time i saw them.

I usually see 2 orange lights, light up on big bass scenes.

Keep in mind though guys, that it might not be the best comparison to compare 3 drivers to 1, since each of my drivers is working much less to produce the same SPL it takes for one driver. Still though I wanted to add the above, to the discussion.

hopefully someone running 1 si18 can chime in. Im gonna PM a forum member who i know has the same setup ( 1 si18 and inuke ) and ask him to reply here.
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post #85 of 115 Old 07-21-2014, 11:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. Let me know what you find out.

Keep in mind too that I technically have two subs running; The HSU should help offload a little bit
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post #86 of 115 Old 07-21-2014, 11:22 AM
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Room size has an impact as well. I have large room and play at same level as Kev. With two sub's I flicker red on heavy scenes. Today I get my third so we will see.
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post #87 of 115 Old 07-21-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boomassiv View Post
Makes me wonder if like you mentions earlier that the lights are showing you reaching the limiter (watts) you have set and not the overall amp capacity.
good question. inertia, you could test boomassiv's theory by setting the limiter to like 1 watt, and then playing a bass heavy seen at moderate volume. if you get lots of red, than i would think boom's theory is right.

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post #88 of 115 Old 07-21-2014, 02:27 PM
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To start, this is a wonderful build. I may be alone here, but marty subs are just plain SEXY, I'm not picky either, white, black, cube, mini, vert, full, Coffee table (kev lol I can't freakin wait).
Ok Ok, on to what I see when I crank WOW or SW EP 1 Pod race scenes. I get house rattling bass and red clipping lights for a few seconds, then it calms down. I can adjust my sub gain on my old onkyo (C'MON ATMOS I'm ready!) if it's a little to hot, or back down the gain nobs on the amp (I never do though because I don't want to send different levels to the separate VC's)
update. You have exactly what I have, d2. How many channels are you using from the inuke?
It may not be advised, but I hooked one channel to each voice coil of the sub, set the limiter for each channel to a total of 1100 watts, set my HP filter as ltd02 taught us and that's about it.
The measuring I did was to play a test tone over and over, I noticed a lul in the 50hz area, so I bumped that up a few db.
I know that doesn't put the Science in AVS, but she sounds great.
When in doubt, retrace your connections. Make sure your connections didn't rattle loose, make sure your rca's to whatever you used to connect to the Inuke are solid, then from Inuke to marty.
Can you get video of your Inuke rockin the Pod Emergence from WOW? I'll get video of mine and we can compare? I'm free this evening to test and video before my kids head to bed.


Last edited by sooly1; 07-21-2014 at 04:07 PM.
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post #89 of 115 Old 07-22-2014, 07:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sooly1 View Post
To start, this is a wonderful build. I may be alone here, but marty subs are just plain SEXY, I'm not picky either, white, black, cube, mini, vert, full, Coffee table (kev lol I can't freakin wait).
Ok Ok, on to what I see when I crank WOW or SW EP 1 Pod race scenes. I get house rattling bass and red clipping lights for a few seconds, then it calms down. I can adjust my sub gain on my old onkyo (C'MON ATMOS I'm ready!) if it's a little to hot, or back down the gain nobs on the amp (I never do though because I don't want to send different levels to the separate VC's)
update. You have exactly what I have, d2. How many channels are you using from the inuke?
It may not be advised, but I hooked one channel to each voice coil of the sub, set the limiter for each channel to a total of 1100 watts, set my HP filter as ltd02 taught us and that's about it.
The measuring I did was to play a test tone over and over, I noticed a lul in the 50hz area, so I bumped that up a few db.
I know that doesn't put the Science in AVS, but she sounds great.
When in doubt, retrace your connections. Make sure your connections didn't rattle loose, make sure your rca's to whatever you used to connect to the Inuke are solid, then from Inuke to marty.
Can you get video of your Inuke rockin the Pod Emergence from WOW? I'll get video of mine and we can compare? I'm free this evening to test and video before my kids head to bed.
Sorry I didn't get a chance to check this thread last night... I can still do this some time. I also didn't get a chance to re-run REW with a 5hz starting point.

My D2 is wired for 4-ohms. I'm using one channel from the inuke, set up thusly:




My limiter is set at the 4-ohm load and for 1000 watts. I can bump it up for the sake of testing.
For comparisons sake, we'd have to make sure our subs are level matched equally at a certain volume on the AVR
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Last edited by in3rtia; 07-22-2014 at 07:40 AM.
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post #90 of 115 Old 07-22-2014, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by in3rtia View Post
Sorry I didn't get a chance to check this thread last night... I can still do this some time. I also didn't get a chance to re-run REW with a 5hz starting point.

My D2 is wired for 4-ohms. I'm using one channel from the inuke, set up thusly:




My limiter is set at the 4-ohm load and for 1000 watts. I can bump it up for the sake of testing.
For comparisons sake, we'd have to make sure our subs are level matched equally at a certain volume on the AVR




Ok I think that is wrong....anyone? 1 channel of a 3000 won't be giving the sub the juice correct? I think you are not even close to pushing that sub right wired like that. I'll let one of the more informed verify but I thing one channel at 4 ohms on that amp is only rated at 8xx watts.
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