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post #5101 of 5132 Old 12-14-2019, 04:53 PM
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Hi all,
I’m looking to build a set of 4 mini Marty’s, but wondering if I can lower (or raise) the driver cutout?
Normal dimensions would put the drivers right in the middle of the screen frame (both top and bottom).
I can’t go any bigger than 40” boxes and still have room to stack them, but also don’t want to rattle my frame unnecessarily.
TIA.




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post #5102 of 5132 Old 12-14-2019, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldcabin View Post
Hi all,
I’m looking to build a set of 4 mini Marty’s, but wondering if I can lower (or raise) the driver cutout?
Normal dimensions would put the drivers right in the middle of the screen frame (both top and bottom).
I can’t go any bigger than 40” boxes and still have room to stack them, but also don’t want to rattle my frame unnecessarily.
TIA.
I had to do this on my mini Martys, install the drivers off to one side to clear the screen frame. I didn't have to do any other modifications to the cabinet. Even though the driver is only a few inches behind the AT screen, it does not appear to rattle the frame in any way
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post #5103 of 5132 Old 12-15-2019, 09:15 AM
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Great, thanks! That’s good to hear.
Wasn’t sure if driver would need to be positioned a certain way on the back wall of the slot port.
Appreciate the help.


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post #5104 of 5132 Old 12-18-2019, 07:56 PM
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What are port back and port bottom? What are the braces for these?

This probably is a total newb question and I think I know the answer, but before I go for glue up, I want to double check.

I am building a full marty with a UM-18-22 and am using the cut list provided by this thread.

It lists parts for port bottom, port back, bottom rails and back rails.

I assume the port bottom will be glued to the bottom of the actual cabinet? The port bottom rails will sit in between the bottom and back, and the port back will sit on top of the bottom rails? I'm not sure where the 'back rails' go though? In between the back of the cabinet and the top (back) of the port? If this is the case, why are they 27.25'' ?

Please help clear up this confusion for me!

Thank you guys. Really looking forward to assembling this and messing around with it!
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post #5105 of 5132 Old 12-18-2019, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiumSound View Post
This probably is a total newb question and I think I know the answer, but before I go for glue up, I want to double check.

I am building a full marty with a UM-18-22 and am using the cut list provided by this thread.

It lists parts for port bottom, port back, bottom rails and back rails.

I assume the port bottom will be glued to the bottom of the actual cabinet? The port bottom rails will sit in between the bottom and back, and the port back will sit on top of the bottom rails? I'm not sure where the 'back rails' go though? In between the back of the cabinet and the top (back) of the port? If this is the case, why are they 27.25'' ?

Please help clear up this confusion for me!

Thank you guys. Really looking forward to assembling this and messing around with it!
Bottom rails sit on the bottom of the cabinet, and support the port bottom. The back rails run up the back of the cabinet, and support the port back. The rails form an "L" shape that supports the back and bottom, thus forming the port itself.

Here is an image of the mini-marty, in which the back rails are 23.75" the back rails are the vertical supports for the port, shown in the bottom right of the diagram.


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post #5106 of 5132 Old 12-18-2019, 11:41 PM
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[quote=Augerhandle;58976908]Bottom rails sit on the bottom of the cabinet, and support the port bottom. The back rails run up the back of the cabinet, and support the port back. The rails form an "L" shape that supports the back and bottom, thus forming the port itself.

Here is an image of the mini-marty, in which the back rails are 23.75" the back rails are the vertical supports for the port, shown in the bottom right of the diagram.

Thank you this clears it up for me!
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post #5107 of 5132 Old 12-18-2019, 11:52 PM
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One more question.

The cut list outlined in the OP of this thread only calls for one 'bottom rail' on the full marty. I cut 2 just in case, but is there any reason for only having one bottom rail and 2 vertical? Would using a second rail be detrimental? Using only one rail would lead to the cross section of the port expanding slightly part way through I imagine, I'm not sure if this is the intent?
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post #5108 of 5132 Old 12-19-2019, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiumSound View Post
One more question.

The cut list outlined in the OP of this thread only calls for one 'bottom rail' on the full marty. I cut 2 just in case, but is there any reason for only having one bottom rail and 2 vertical? Would using a second rail be detrimental? Using only one rail would lead to the cross section of the port expanding slightly part way through I imagine, I'm not sure if this is the intent?
Had the same issue - you want two rails. It was a typo in the cut sheet.
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post #5109 of 5132 Old 12-19-2019, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadiumSound View Post
One more question.

The cut list outlined in the OP of this thread only calls for one 'bottom rail' on the full marty. I cut 2 just in case, but is there any reason for only having one bottom rail and 2 vertical? Would using a second rail be detrimental? Using only one rail would lead to the cross section of the port expanding slightly part way through I imagine, I'm not sure if this is the intent?
Two rails. It was a typo, as Heide264 explained.

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post #5110 of 5132 Old 12-20-2019, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
Had the same issue - you want two rails. It was a typo in the cut sheet.
Thank you! Going to glue this up on monday hopefully and then start testing!
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post #5111 of 5132 Old 12-20-2019, 06:19 AM
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Thank you! Going to glue this up on monday hopefully and then start testing!
Hopefully you have a warmer workshop/garage than I do! Takes forever in my ice cube.
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post #5112 of 5132 Old 12-25-2019, 01:17 PM
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I'm hoping someone can help troubleshoot my Full Martys.
I recently built a pair using the Ultimax 18's.
They are powered from my receiver's LFE output thru a MiniDSP 2x4HD and a Behringer NX6000.

When I run REW to align and calibrate the subs, they are fine. And when I listen to music, even heavy bass music (Bassnector) they are also fine, but I just was watching my first movie with them, Star Wars Rouge One, streamed from Disney+ and I'm getting some popping from from BOTH Marty's during heavy bass scenes such as the destruction of Jeddah City by the Death Star.

I thought it might be some signals below the tuned frequency, the High Pass filter on the MiniDSP is set at 17Hz, so I bumped it up to 20Hz and I'm still hearing the popping.

Any feedback would be appreciated.

Thanks

Last edited by Brad Billman; 12-25-2019 at 09:41 PM.
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post #5113 of 5132 Old 12-25-2019, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Billman View Post

I thought it might be some signals below the tuned frequency, the High Pass filter on the MiniDSP is set at 17Hz, so I bumped it up to 20Hz and I'm still hearing the popping.



Any feedback would be appreciated.



Thanks

The popping you’re describing sounds like signal clipping, so check the gain structure.

How loud do you listen, how hot are the subs over calibration (trim level), where’s the “gain” set on the iNuke attenuator knobs, what receiver/room EQ are you using, and what’s your room size?

The miniDSP software has an RTA that displays the input and output signal levels during content. If you prefer high volumes that approach reference levels or beyond, keep your sub trim well into the negative range( -3 to -5).

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post #5114 of 5132 Old 12-26-2019, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sekosche View Post
The popping you’re describing sounds like signal clipping, so check the gain structure.

How loud do you listen, how hot are the subs over calibration (trim level), where’s the “gain” set on the iNuke attenuator knobs, what receiver/room EQ are you using, and what’s your room size?

The miniDSP software has an RTA that displays the input and output signal levels during content. If you prefer high volumes that approach reference levels or beyond, keep your sub trim well into the negative range( -3 to -5).
The gain knobs on the Behringer are set 1 click above half way. During demos and some music I've turned the receiver up to reference, but usually just for short periods (no popping noises). While watching Rouge One I was 10 to 15 dB below reference.
My room is 16.7'Wx18.5'Lx9'H

Today, I was watching the opening credit scene in Edge of Tomorrow and I'm hearing the same popping during the deep base even with the volume turned way down. The RTA on the MiniDSP is well into the negative range.

It's actually worse at lower volumes. The MiniDSP is connected directly to the Behringer using RCA to XLR hybrid cables. Does the Behringer require anything else to boost the input signal? A powered line level RCA to XLR converter, perhaps?

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post #5115 of 5132 Old 12-26-2019, 12:52 PM
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What is your receiver sub level/trim set at? Normally you want that in the negatives, but depending on what the gain knob was set to when you did your room calibration, it may be in the positives.

Keep in mind each 'step' in the chain can clip - doesn't have to just be your amplifier output. The amplifier may be receiving a clipped signal.

Dumb question, but are you confident in your various connections? Are they strong and tidy?
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post #5116 of 5132 Old 12-26-2019, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
What is your receiver sub level/trim set at? Normally you want that in the negatives, but depending on what the gain knob was set to when you did your room calibration, it may be in the positives.

Keep in mind each 'step' in the chain can clip - doesn't have to just be your amplifier output. The amplifier may be receiving a clipped signal.

Dumb question, but are you confident in your various connections? Are they strong and tidy?
Yeah, I was questioning the connections as well. I swapped some of my cable around and reterminated the wire termination inside the subs that plug into the Speakon connector. None of that helped, but then I switched the crossover switch on the Behringer to Low Freq and the popping went away.

I had wanted my receiver to handle all crossover duties, so I had the crossover in the Behringer set to Full Range, but switching the amp to Low Freq only fixed the popping.
The crossover in the receiver is set to 80Hz, so I'm not sure why this worked, but it did.
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post #5117 of 5132 Old 12-27-2019, 07:00 AM
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Yeah, I was questioning the connections as well. I swapped some of my cable around and reterminated the wire termination inside the subs that plug into the Speakon connector. None of that helped, but then I switched the crossover switch on the Behringer to Low Freq and the popping went away.

I had wanted my receiver to handle all crossover duties, so I had the crossover in the Behringer set to Full Range, but switching the amp to Low Freq only fixed the popping.
The crossover in the receiver is set to 80Hz, so I'm not sure why this worked, but it did.
You never answered my main question though - what is your subwoofer trim set at from your receiver? You could be clipping the input (or output, I guess) of the miniDSP.

I mean, as long as the problem is solved with that crossover, then more power to ya. Glad its not popping anymore =)
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hi all,

i am looking to build a pair of 18" Full Marty's by GSG. this will be for music only; no h-t at my abode. i'm looking for the best quality low end, but still flat to below 20hz. while the Dayton UM18-22 seems to have the best specs, the gsg website indicates that a driver like the LaVoce SAF184.03 will have better bass quality. which is a bit confusing to me, as its resonance frequency fs is 30hz while the Dayton UM18-22's is 19.5hz.

any comments/suggestions? apologies in advance if the answer is already in this thread; i don't relish having to wade thru 171 pages to find the answer.

and as an aside, would this be a serious upgrade to my present highboy style megawoofered vmps larger subs? and anyone have any experience w/the tekton cinema subs, or the kinergetics research sw800 tower subs? these are also options i am considering.

thanks!

doug s.
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post #5119 of 5132 Old 12-27-2019, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie s. View Post
hi all,

i am looking to build a pair of 18" Full Marty's by GSG. this will be for music only; no h-t at my abode. i'm looking for the best quality low end, but still flat to below 20hz. while the Dayton UM18-22 seems to have the best specs, the gsg website indicates that a driver like the LaVoce SAF184.03 will have better bass quality. which is a bit confusing to me, as its resonance frequency fs is 30hz while the Dayton UM18-22's is 19.5hz.

any comments/suggestions? apologies in advance if the answer is already in this thread; i don't relish having to wade thru 171 pages to find the answer.

and as an aside, would this be a serious upgrade to my present highboy style megawoofered vmps larger subs? and anyone have any experience w/the tekton cinema subs, or the kinergetics research sw800 tower subs? these are also options i am considering.

thanks!

doug s.

My vote would be for the SAF, especially considering the main usage driver is music. First the UM18 will need more power to produce bass where you will need it the most for your content. Most of the bass for music content is north of 35Hz. There are obviously exceptions to this, but a PA style sub woofer will be much more efficient to drive than the UM from that point onward. If you put a lot of power into a UM18 at 50Hz it will not take too long for the end result to be smoke, where the SAF will not have a problem with that for much longer. Second is room gain, once you get below 30Hz most rooms will start adding volume, so your power input might be down 50% or more by the time you reach 20Hz for a flat response. Third the SAF does not need a Full Marty to reach its potential, the Mini Marty will do just fine. The UM18 handles better in large ported cabinets, the SAF does not require a larger ported box. I would also suggest talking to Kevin, he is very response.

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post #5120 of 5132 Old 12-27-2019, 11:52 AM
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My vote would be for the SAF, especially considering the main usage driver is music. First the UM18 will need more power to produce bass where you will need it the most for your content. Most of the bass for music content is north of 35Hz. There are obviously exceptions to this, but a PA style sub woofer will be much more efficient to drive than the UM from that point onward. If you put a lot of power into a UM18 at 50Hz it will not take too long for the end result to be smoke, where the SAF will not have a problem with that for much longer. Second is room gain, once you get below 30Hz most rooms will start adding volume, so your power input might be down 50% or more by the time you reach 20Hz for a flat response. Third the SAF does not need a Full Marty to reach its potential, the Mini Marty will do just fine. The UM18 handles better in large ported cabinets, the SAF does not require a larger ported box. I would also suggest talking to Kevin, he is very response.
thanks for the reply. i should give kevin a call.

regarding cabinet size, i have a big space; ~26x38.8'5, and it opens up to other rooms as well. so i think i might benefit from a larger cabinet.

doug s.
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post #5121 of 5132 Old 12-27-2019, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie s. View Post
hi all,



i am looking to build a pair of 18" Full Marty's by GSG. this will be for music only; no h-t at my abode. i'm looking for the best quality low end, but still flat to below 20hz. while the Dayton UM18-22 seems to have the best specs, the gsg website indicates that a driver like the LaVoce SAF184.03 will have better bass quality. which is a bit confusing to me, as its resonance frequency fs is 30hz while the Dayton UM18-22's is 19.5hz.



any comments/suggestions? apologies in advance if the answer is already in this thread; i don't relish having to wade thru 171 pages to find the answer.



and as an aside, would this be a serious upgrade to my present highboy style megawoofered vmps larger subs? and anyone have any experience w/the tekton cinema subs, or the kinergetics research sw800 tower subs? these are also options i am considering.



thanks!



doug s.

Can you do 21” full Marty’s instead? Same volume but different dimensions. A pair of those with lavoce san214.50 would be outstanding for music.

Chris


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post #5122 of 5132 Old 12-27-2019, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie s. View Post
thanks for the reply. i should give kevin a call.

regarding cabinet size, i have a big space; ~26x38.8'5, and it opens up to other rooms as well. so i think i might benefit from a larger cabinet.

doug s.
You have a very large volume room...somewhat like mine, although I have higher ceilings...but the same open floor plan/infinite room volume. @Red Five makes a good point about room gain below 30Hz, but a room with volume of yours and mine will see very little if any room gain unless you are sitting at or near a boundary. In a room that size you need a pair of UM18 MiniMartys (or Full) driven by plenty of power. Yes there are drivers more sensitive above 50Hz at the cost of output below...especially in a large volume room. The Mini or Full Martys with the UM18 is a better choice in a large room because their output is much the same across the spectrum below 100Hz. So if you low pass them (either through bass management or other DSP) at 60Hz or so (presuming your mains are strong down to 60Hz), they and you are in an acoustically friendly location, and they are EQ'd for smooth response, you will have smooth, powerful bass down to 20Hz.

The SAF and PA460 in a VBSS or Marty will do fine if the room is of a size that room gain helps their lowest octave.

That said, GSG would also recommend the 21" driver models for your application. They are a bit more refined overall, and strong and smooth throughout the sub-100Hz range.

FWIW

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the recent info is interesting, and i appreciate all the input.

even the 21" san drivers have an fs of 30hz. my concern about the dayton um22's was the subjective rating of "good" and "average" for low bass and mid-bass quality. but i feel i would have to use eq to get the other drivers to be flat to <20hz. i presently am using a marchand outboard x-over w/o eq. i do have a deqx, but honestly, i'm not enthralled w/its complicated set-up. i'd rather not have to use it.

and yes, my set up has the mains and subs out into the room ~7' from the rear wall, and also well away from the side walls. the vmps' actually are very nice, but i'm wanting "nicer".

(present main speakers are piega p5 mkii ltd's.)

doug s.
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post #5124 of 5132 Old 12-28-2019, 05:19 PM
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@dougie s. ..I guess the trick is having something more than a subjective judgement of the sound. An analyzer of some kind is a useful tool, but if after EQ the analyzer says it should sound good and your ear tells you it's terrible, something is amiss. LF acoustic response is a tough nut to crack reliably. You may wish to take a look at the Harman White Papers by Todd Welti and this by HAA. https://homeacoustics.org/hello-world/
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post #5125 of 5132 Old 12-28-2019, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Heide264 View Post
You never answered my main question though - what is your subwoofer trim set at from your receiver? You could be clipping the input (or output, I guess) of the miniDSP.

I mean, as long as the problem is solved with that crossover, then more power to ya. Glad its not popping anymore =)
Sorry, my subwoofer gain is set for 0dB for all sources.
I agree with you that clipping is causing the problem. Although it is stopped by switching the amp crossover to Low Frequency, I still don't know the true source. I'm due for a new Pre/Pro in 2020, this fix will hold until then.

Thanks for your input.
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post #5126 of 5132 Old 12-30-2019, 02:30 PM
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You need to come and get my two Full Marty flat packs and pick up the SAN drivers. I'm only 7 hours from you. I have two 21" B&C 's in my HT and they are really great for HT and music. I think the San 21's would be great too.
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post #5127 of 5132 Old 01-03-2020, 09:23 PM
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Basic wiring question....

I built a mini marty with a um18 and am running it on a nx3000d bridged. I have it connected to the amp via a 4pole speakon cable. I built it last year and my memory is fuzzy on the wiring, but I was considering moving the sub and need to extend my speakon cable. So, since I'm running in bridge mode are there four physical wires inside the speakon and are they all being used? If my memory is right is seems like I had to change the internal wiring on the amp side of the speakon and that is what leads me to think I need to actual use 4 wires for the run; right?

I was going to simply extend the speakon cable I have now with a length of regular speaker wire, but would I actually need two sets of speaker wire (4 physical wires)?


Thanks

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post #5128 of 5132 Old 01-04-2020, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidinGA View Post
Basic wiring question....



I built a mini marty with a um18 and am running it on a nx3000d bridged. I have it connected to the amp via a 4pole speakon cable. I built it last year and my memory is fuzzy on the wiring, but I was considering moving the sub and need to extend my speakon cable. So, since I'm running in bridge mode are there four physical wires inside the speakon and are they all being used? If my memory is right is seems like I had to change the internal wiring on the amp side of the speakon and that is what leads me to think I need to actual use 4 wires for the run; right?



I was going to simply extend the speakon cable I have now with a length of regular speaker wire, but would I actually need two sets of speaker wire (4 physical wires)?





Thanks
Not sure what cable you have, but the amp in bridge mode requires the positive cable on +1 and the negative cable on +2 and on channel A if memory serves me. You can do whatever you want on the sub end for getting the positive and negative poles connected. With a UM bridged make sure you have the voice coils wired in series.
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post #5129 of 5132 Old 01-21-2020, 12:18 PM
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I've been running a Marty on 1 channel of my NX6000D for a while, but I never really paid any attention to the power settings. Do I need to set the "Load" to 2 or 4 ohm? It's just left empty at the moment so not sure how that impacts the amp and/or driver?
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post #5130 of 5132 Old 01-21-2020, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Bnaan View Post
I've been running a Marty on 1 channel of my NX6000D for a while, but I never really paid any attention to the power settings. Do I need to set the "Load" to 2 or 4 ohm? It's just left empty at the moment so not sure how that impacts the amp and/or driver?
Load is just used in the app to calculate the power limit based off of the peak limiter's voltage setting. It doesn't have any effect on the way the amp works.

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