Lilmike's Picowrecker - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 239 Old 10-14-2015, 09:13 AM
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This shows some of my bracing (additional piece in back not yet installed). I did not install a brace over the top. I also cut mine from scrap. I draw out the plan for the horn on one of the sides, which you should be able to see in the attached picture). I simply find some scrap and use my speed square to draw a line for the cut on the scrap. That process worked well for this project. When I did my LilWrecker I made the windowed braces from plans someone posted. It was considerable work and I don't think there was any gain from that additional work.



Windowed bracing in my LilWrecker:
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post #62 of 239 Old 10-14-2015, 12:13 PM
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Got all the panels done.

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post #63 of 239 Old 10-14-2015, 04:48 PM
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Looks great!

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"Making bass is easy, making music is the hard part!"

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post #64 of 239 Old 10-14-2015, 05:43 PM
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Thanks. Got all the bracing done today. Just need to attach the side panel. Moment of truth! I'll wait till tomorrow for a helper. It's much easier to lower it down steady with two people.

Does anyone know how the alpine bottoms out? Clank then dead, or warning noises?

I've got way more power than they need but I like to press my luck. Only an $80 driver anyways.
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post #65 of 239 Old 10-15-2015, 12:41 PM
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Don't fight gravity. Set the cabinet on its side to install the side panel.

Once the sub is ready for the side panel, I glue it up, then I roll it onto its side, sitting on a couple pieces of scrap. This makes it far easier to position the side panel, clamp it into place, pull the cabinet square, and put screws in the corners. Once I have the corners screwed down, I roll it back onto the back side and finish screwing the final side panel down.

Of course, I figured this procedure out after I really needed it when I was building the MicroWrecker.
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post #66 of 239 Old 10-24-2015, 09:40 AM
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In process photo of putting wheels on it! As mine was built for outdoor enjoyment, having to carry the thing was a PITA. All better now. Works like a hand truck.

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post #67 of 239 Old 10-24-2015, 10:56 AM
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Can one of you set it one PW on a scale with the driver loaded?
Might be interested in building one of these for outdoor use also, just curious what it weighs to load into a car.

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post #68 of 239 Old 10-24-2015, 10:57 AM
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Can one of you set it one PW on a scale with the driver loaded?
Might be interested in building one of these for outdoor use also, just curious what it weighs to load into a car.

SI HST-18 DIY Subwoofer / Sony VPLHW40ES / Onkyo TX-NR636 /
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post #69 of 239 Old 10-24-2015, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kubbie View Post
Can one of you set it one PW on a scale with the driver loaded?
Might be interested in building one of these for outdoor use also, just curious what it weighs to load into a car.
A sheet of 3/4" plywood is about 75lbs. The PW uses about 1.5 sheets. I would guess 110-120lbs total.
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post #70 of 239 Old 10-24-2015, 11:26 AM
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Mines got wet primer on it at the moment. I wouldn't want to lift it in and out of a vehicle myself. It's not super heavy but a little awkward. Two people could throw it 10 yards.

Handles might make it manageable.
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post #71 of 239 Old 10-27-2015, 06:44 PM
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From this past weekend. Doesn't look like much, but sounds great even from here. There's one eWave on the left side of the driveway and another eWave on top of the PicoWrecker on the right side of the driveway in front of the blue Mazda 3. 80w on the mains and 1000w on the Pico and we only using a fraction of that power.

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post #72 of 239 Old 10-30-2015, 10:18 AM
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Got started on my second Picowrecker last night. I scored an Alpine sws10d4 on ebay for $61 shipped!

Pics for viewing pleasures

I used Festool 4x20 dominoes to get the outside panels flush. I hadnt used the 4x20's yet and wanted to try them. They are pretty small but didnt do a bad job of making the panels flush with the edges. I will use the 5x30's in the future though as they are a little beefier for this application.


Clamp Pic1


Clamp Pic2
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post #73 of 239 Old 10-30-2015, 04:07 PM
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^ nice work!

My two should be up and running tomorrow. Just need to sort out the gasket and which screws to use for mounting. I'd like some good socket cap screws but finding them with a coarse wood thread is tougher than I thought. Might just stick with the regular stuff.
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post #74 of 239 Old 10-31-2015, 03:43 PM
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Almost ready! I'm gonna replace the screws with some black ones later. They are painted to match my basement walls. I've found this makes them blend in better.


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post #75 of 239 Old 11-02-2015, 08:11 AM
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Always wanted to build one of these. Maybe a winter project. I want to use it as a shop sub or gift it to someone later on.

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #76 of 239 Old 11-11-2015, 10:57 AM
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Help with amp choice for Picowrecker

I have already built one PicoWrecker using the Alpine SWS D2 10" and am going to build a second one starting this week using another of the same Alpine drivers. My question is regarding the amp that I still need to buy. I was originally going to use the Inuke 3000DSP, but am wondering if the 1000DSP would be enough. My current sub in the room is a Power Sound Audio SB-15 and it pretty good for the space. Will the 1000DSP with the two more efficient tapped horns be enough or do I really need the extra headroom of the 3000DSP. Other suggestions are encouraged and welcome.


Thanks


P.S. Here are a couple of build photos of my PicoWrecker as its being built.
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post #77 of 239 Old 11-11-2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brookhart995 View Post
I have already built one PicoWrecker using the Alpine SWS D2 10" and am going to build a second one starting this week using another of the same Alpine drivers. My question is regarding the amp that I still need to buy. I was originally going to use the Inuke 3000DSP, but am wondering if the 1000DSP would be enough. My current sub in the room is a Power Sound Audio SB-15 and it pretty good for the space. Will the 1000DSP with the two more efficient tapped horns be enough or do I really need the extra headroom of the 3000DSP. Other suggestions are encouraged and welcome.


Thanks


P.S. Here are a couple of build photos of my PicoWrecker as its being built.
Nice looking work!

I'd suggest that you spend the $80 and grab the 3000 DSP, there is a big difference in capability for not a lot of additional money.
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post #78 of 239 Old 11-11-2015, 01:40 PM
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I figured as much, but thought I would ask anyways. I am sure most people never regret by the MORE powerful amp. Its a great design and very easy to construct. Kudos to you lilmike!
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post #79 of 239 Old 11-11-2015, 08:36 PM
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@lilmike

Hey Mike, do you know what the max spl limitation is of the Pico with the alpine? Is it limited by excursion above or below tuning or is it the power handling? If it's excursion, would a higher HPF increase max spl? It looks like excursion is equally high above tuning which leads me to believe the 118-120 range is as good as it's gonna get. Which is amazing of course from an $80 driver.
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post #80 of 239 Old 11-12-2015, 03:32 PM
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Well, I haven't tested one to destruction, so I don't know the real-world limits.

In simulation-land, the limits of the Alpine SWS 10D2 are entirely thermal (with the recommended 4th order highpass at 22 Hz in place). At 500W RMS, excursion stays within linear limits, except for the first resonance at 30 to 42 Hz, which still remains safely within the mechanical limits. When the driver's peak rating of 1500 W RMS is applied, excursion stays within the mechanical limits.

The engineers at Alpine are smarter than I am (honest, I've met a few...), so I'd pay attention to the numbers they recommend as limits. They have tested to the limits, that's how they were defined.

Like you said, it is an $80 10" driver, so ~120 dB is not too shabby.
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post #81 of 239 Old 11-12-2015, 03:58 PM
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Awesome! Great info. I wonder how much a tapped horn helps cool a driver? Considering the driver is in open air with the flow of air running right through the hot parts.
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post #82 of 239 Old 01-27-2016, 08:39 AM
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I am wondering if the FI Q10 would possibly work in this beast?
http://www.ficaraudio.com/product/q-series-q10/
I just ordered an FI Q15 to finally make the lilwrecker, so maybe the Q10 would work for the picowrecker?
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post #83 of 239 Old 01-27-2016, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superedge88 View Post
I am wondering if the FI Q10 would possibly work in this beast?
http://www.ficaraudio.com/product/q-series-q10/
I just ordered an FI Q15 to finally make the lilwrecker, so maybe the Q10 would work for the picowrecker?
I can't answer if it will or not, but the Sundown Ev2 10 is half the price on Amazon so why not use it?

FYI though:
I believe Sundown upgraded it to an EV3 (with a slight price increase), so I'm not sure how much longer the EV2 will be available. The EV2 is still on their site, but not the EV3. I'm not sure if the EV3 has been changed to where it won't work in the Pico. lilmike will have to model it to be sure.

This is the only place I've found specs on the EV3 so far:
http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com...-e-series.html
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post #84 of 239 Old 01-27-2016, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Mitten View Post
I can't answer if it will or not, but the Sundown Ev2 10 is half the price on Amazon so why not use it?

FYI though:
I believe Sundown upgraded it to an EV3 (with a slight price increase), so I'm not sure how much longer the EV2 will be available. The EV2 is still on their site, but not the EV3. I'm not sure if the EV3 has been changed to where it won't work in the Pico. lilmike will have to model it to be sure.

This is the only place I've found specs on the EV3 so far:
http://store.soundsolutionsaudio.com...-e-series.html
I was liking the extreme power handling (3x as much as the sundown driver) of the FI Q10.
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post #85 of 239 Old 02-19-2016, 12:50 PM
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Thank you all for the great thread!

Brand new to the world of homebrew subs and have been reading and re-reading these threads for weeks.

Taking the plunge and have an Alpine on the way. Does anyone have thoughts or opinions on negatives to using a plate amp for one of these? I would rather not have another amp in my limited AV cabinet space and like the idea of a plate amp like a bash 300s. Being new and not having first hand experience I am open to other suggestions for on board amp as well. The sub will be a good ways away from my other equipment. Have a power plug right where I want it and I can easily fish a cable to this position too. Does the amp take up enough internal volume to make a difference?

Hope to be making saw dust in the next few days.

Thank you all for any thoughts you can share!

Eric
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post #86 of 239 Old 02-19-2016, 01:37 PM
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Awesome! Good luck with your build!

Though I have owned plenty over the years, and still have a few in service here and there, I tend to avoid using plate amps any more.

I tend to use more than one sub in my systems, even the "small" system in my home will have a pair of subs once it is completed. When I can buy a decent amp like the iNuke 3000DSP, that makes LOTS more power, has twice the available channels, and comes with an extremely useful integrated DSP for less than the cost of two modest plate amps, it just doesn't make sense to consider the plate amps. I've never put a plate amp into a horn, tapped or otherwise. I've always just mounted the amp in a separate cabinet. If someone wanted to put it into the cabinet, I anticipate that it could be done, provided sufficient care was taken to keep things sealed up as the respective design intended without blocking too much of the internal path. In the case of the Pico, putting a plate amp into the cabinet might be a challenge, as the throat-end (larger portion) of the horn fold is on the inside of the cabinet.

Once the plate amp is installed, ground loops can be a problem, as can issues with the signal wires picking up interference over the long runs. I've struggled with all of these things over the years. For me, pro amps are just a better fit.
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post #87 of 239 Old 02-19-2016, 03:53 PM
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You will need to make sure the high pass filter is appropriate for the amount of voltage in the pico. IIRC the HPF is best around 22-23hz and some plate amps are around 18-20hz. It's probably fine with the lower power of the plate amp, but worth looking into.

IMO there isn't a good place for a plate amp in the pico cab.
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post #88 of 239 Old 02-19-2016, 04:33 PM
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A quick look at the plans suggests that a cutout through the side might work, it needs to hit the last portion of the flare before the driver.

If you measure from the bottom corner near the mouth, the bottom of the cutout needs to be 12 inches up from the bottom, and the side needs to be 12 inches in from the mouth side. Make the cutout no larger than the recommended 10" high and 6.25" wide, and make sure the long dimension of the cutout is aligned with the long dimension of the side panel.



There is barely enough room to fit the BASH 300 into that portion of the horn, but the amp and mounting screws need to be 100% sealed.
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post #89 of 239 Old 02-20-2016, 09:24 AM
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Wow! Thank you for the rapid and detailed response! Never thought I'd have Lilmike doing test measurements.... This forum is awesome. Looks like iNuke it will be. Plus that gives me the excuse to build number two and retire my Klipsch ported sub to the living room.

The Sub arrives later in the week. Gotta love amazon and gift cards. Weekend is shot with kids games so hopeful to get plywood sometime next week. Now, how do I explain the amp to my wife...........

Thanks again and will share my adventure soon.

Eric
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post #90 of 239 Old 06-13-2016, 11:33 AM
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Quick update.

Have it all done. Made a few minor errors on the inside. Caught them and had to redo a few things. Nothing major but I should measure more and cut less....... Worried my bracing may not be up to snuff as I look back at these. Also made a big old sticky mess filling the gap between the baffle and the bottom with spray foam. Should have scrounged up some insulation. Used Restore Deck paint from Home Depot. It turned out better than I thought it would but it does show scuff marks easily. Seems to be normal for the paint. Odd for a deck paint but oh well, you live and learn.

Those back bolts are tricky with big fat fingers.

I ran it very gingerly on a 25 year old JVC receiver. Sound out, no magic smoke release. A little birdy let me know an iNuke 3000 dsp is showing up for fathers day. Will try to post something back in a week or two as work allows.

THANK YOU LilMike!!

Eric
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