Lilmike's Picowrecker - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 244 Old 12-03-2016, 10:36 AM
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If size isn't an issue, I'd recommend the F-20 over the Pico.

Of course, if size isn't a concern, I'd build a LilWrecker over either of those options. I've experienced a pair of those, it was good fun.
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post #152 of 244 Old 01-17-2017, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Samps View Post
And since this is a lilmike thread, the F20 is also a very good single sub option. It might be one of the best all around bang for the buck subs you can build. I haven't built one yet. But I will.
I went in a different direction. Just finished building a microwrecker based on it being the largest lilmike sub I could transport in my hatchback. Still reading on proper settings for AVR and inuke but it already makes my old sub seem nonexistent. I went with OSB($20) as it was significantly cheaper than Birch($65) and I didn't trust my carpentry skills. It doesn't look too bad after being painted flat black and placed in the corner. For under $400 for Alpine SWS-15D4, iNuke 3000dsp, 3 sheets OSB, paint, screws, PL premium, threaded inserts, and misc connections I think I did well on price. Thanks for suggesting I check out other lilmike options. Thank you @lilmike for putting your plans on avsforum.
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post #153 of 244 Old 01-17-2017, 09:07 PM
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Sweet! How about a pic or two?

I'm considering a micro myself.
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post #154 of 244 Old 01-26-2017, 11:52 PM
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I foĺlow the lilmike topics for a while and finally have some aproval of the wife to put some in our living room.

I have space for 1 lilwrecker or 2 picos. Living room is 4 by 8 meter and 50 50 music movies use. Very capable main speakes, transmission lines 160w d'appolito 18 - 30k hz. Which would give the best result for my setup? Will use crown xls 1000 for power

Secondly the us drivers are expebsive in europe due to taxes and shipping. What is the best way to model some european drivers without having to ask here every time?

Thanks!

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post #155 of 244 Old 01-29-2017, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
The Alpine Type-R (SWR) is a decent choice, but may have a bit too much motor. As far as motor amount? Generally, I look for the ratio BL^2/Re/Sd to come in around 0.15 to 0.2 for use in tapped horns, though I have had good results with ratios up to 0.25. This driver is 0.25. The peak at 70 and the trough at 90 are almost 13 dB apart in the model.



The specs are in the owner's manual. Should be all you need.

Within the same driver "generation" I generally trust the Alpine specs. The times that I have measured things, they have been close to the published numbers. More importantly, the drivers generally perform as well as the models predict.
Thanks for this excellent write up, I am actually contemplating the same thing. I have to pay 230 euro to get 2 SWS drivers, and pay 270 (there's a sale) for the SWR drivers. At first glance I thought they would be better but they model a whole lot 'spikier' than the SWS

2 questions:
- How much of these spikes can you get out using DSP?
- If you don't use DSP and put the crossover at 80Hz, will you have issues with the spikes?

thanks!
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post #156 of 244 Old 01-29-2017, 09:12 AM
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I've not built and measured a cabinet loaded with the SWR, so I have no idea.

DSP can do a lot, but it can not address cabinet harmonics. That said, I have seen a ruler-flat neaarfield response from a Sundown-loaded PicoWrecker after DSP.

Putting the cabinet in a room will typically make an even bigger mess of the response.
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post #157 of 244 Old 02-20-2017, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Sweet! How about a pic or two?

I'm considering a micro myself.
I took a quick pic before I headed out. Still need to fine tune things. I'll be doing that when I get home using REW and a umik.
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post #158 of 244 Old 02-20-2017, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
If size isn't an issue, I'd recommend the F-20 over the Pico.

Of course, if size isn't a concern, I'd build a LilWrecker over either of those options. I've experienced a pair of those, it was good fun.
since the lilwrecker has both sides of the driver radiating into the room, does it have more output than the f20 with same driver?

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post #159 of 244 Old 02-21-2017, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by TheDiscoDuck View Post
since the lilwrecker has both sides of the driver radiating into the room, does it have more output than the f20 with same driver?
Drivers that work in the F-20 don't work well in the LilWrecker.

The LilWrecker still takes a 15" driver, just needs a driver with different parameters. The LilWrecker does get lower (and possibly louder) than an F-20 will.
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post #160 of 244 Old 06-13-2017, 11:58 AM
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Sorry if this has been answered (I looked but may have missed it), but the Alpine SWS10D2 is now replaced with a newer model, the Alpine SWS10D4. I'm going to get a Picowrecker build underway soon... should I try to find the D2, or is the D4 ok/better?
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post #161 of 244 Old 06-13-2017, 12:06 PM
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The model is the same (SWS), the D2 and D4 are just the impedance.

D2 = Dual 2 ohm coils, D4 = Dual 4 ohm coils.

Get the one that is a better fit for your amplifier, they're essentially interchangeable in this cabinet.
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post #162 of 244 Old 06-13-2017, 12:20 PM
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The D4 can't run bridged on an inuke, so keep that in mind.
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post #163 of 244 Old 06-13-2017, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samps View Post
The D4 can't run bridged on an inuke, so keep that in mind.
Sure it can, just wire the coils in series, not parallel.

An 8R load is fine on the iNukes.
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post #164 of 244 Old 06-13-2017, 03:08 PM
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Sure it can
Sorry, I recommended the Pico to him in a different thread and also recommended the 1000dsp. He seemed to be limited to a single sub. So a D4 with the 1000dsp would be underpowered IMO. With the 3000dsp I would actually prefer the D4 so you could run at 2 ohms on one channel, and use the other channel for something else.

Why haven't any new designs come out? I'm still considering the wide F20 with an 18.
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post #165 of 244 Old 06-13-2017, 03:28 PM
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Sorry, I recommended the Pico to him in a different thread and also recommended the 1000dsp. He seemed to be limited to a single sub. So a D4 with the 1000dsp would be underpowered IMO. With the 3000dsp I would actually prefer the D4 so you could run at 2 ohms on one channel, and use the other channel for something else.

Why haven't any new designs come out? I'm still considering the wide F20 with an 18.

I am definitely going with a single Pico for now. It will be the third sub in the room, alongside two R-115SWs, and I really only want it for a bit more low frequency extension. That said, I intend to amp it in place, as opposed to trying to wire it to my rack. I'd be better off with the 1000DSP and the D2, right? Am I also correct that the 1000 wouldn't need the fan mod?

I'll go the 3K route if need be, as I could always purpose it for a different build.
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post #166 of 244 Old 06-13-2017, 04:08 PM
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All of the inukes I've had needed fan mods. 1x 1kdsp, 2x 3kdsp, 1x 6kdsp.

1000dsp + D2
3000dsp with either, but D4 probably better fit

Sorry, I have no recommendation for a plate amp.
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post #167 of 244 Old 06-13-2017, 04:38 PM
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Plate amps cost more and do less. The NU1000 DSP is a fine choice, even for the D4. You're giving up maybe 2 dB by being "underpowered" on paper which, IMO is no big deal. In my experience (1K DSP and 3K DSP) fan modding is not optional on the iNuke.

You're better off with the amp near the source and long speaker wire. Pull speaker wire, not signal wire. Trust me on this. Ground loops suck. I'm re-doing the wiring in my brother's basement to eliminate the ground loop issues.

"Why haven't any new designs come out? I'm still considering the wide F20 with an 18."

Still busy building my house. I may not be very good, but I sure am slow.
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post #168 of 244 Old 06-14-2017, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
The model is the same (SWS), the D2 and D4 are just the impedance.

D2 = Dual 2 ohm coils, D4 = Dual 4 ohm coils.

Get the one that is a better fit for your amplifier, they're essentially interchangeable in this cabinet.
IIRC, from the mouth of the engineer, the D2 has a slight bit more thermal capability from a bit better heat transfer ( same gap / pole / motor ) from tighter clearances.

Ask your doctor if DIY is right for you. Side effects of DIY may include anxiety, elevated blood pressure, lightheadedness, rapid heartbeat, skeletal muscle flaccidity, euphoria, psychological dependence, insomnia, confusion, blurred vision, impulsivity, uncontrolled or repeated movements.
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post #169 of 244 Old 06-14-2017, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
Plate amps cost more and do less. The NU1000 DSP is a fine choice, even for the D4. You're giving up maybe 2 dB by being "underpowered" on paper which, IMO is no big deal. In my experience (1K DSP and 3K DSP) fan modding is not optional on the iNuke.

You're better off with the amp near the source and long speaker wire. Pull speaker wire, not signal wire. Trust me on this. Ground loops suck. I'm re-doing the wiring in my brother's basement to eliminate the ground loop issues.

"Why haven't any new designs come out? I'm still considering the wide F20 with an 18."

Still busy building my house. I may not be very good, but I sure am slow.
@Samps and @lilmike , thanks for the help, guys. I'll see about that wire run and check back in

On another note, would the lilwrecker design (or any other horn) theoretically benefit from changing the horn folds from ~square angles to curves? I have access to a CNC router, which makes kerfing and rounding plywood very easy.
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post #170 of 244 Old 06-14-2017, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Deusx3 View Post
@Samps and @lilmike , thanks for the help, guys. I'll see about that wire run and check back in

On another note, would the lilwrecker design (or any other horn) theoretically benefit from changing the horn folds from ~square angles to curves? I have access to a CNC router, which makes kerfing and rounding plywood very easy.
No benefit. Consider the wavelengths are tens of feet long.
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post #171 of 244 Old 06-14-2017, 07:48 PM
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No benefit. Consider the wavelengths are tens of feet long.
While I think there *theoretically* could be a smoothing effect on the response, I realize that I'd be changing the interior volume of the unit and therefore messing with the tuning.
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post #172 of 244 Old 06-16-2017, 11:43 AM
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While I think there *theoretically* could be a smoothing effect on the response, I realize that I'd be changing the interior volume of the unit and therefore messing with the tuning.
The science is pretty clear.

Considering the frequencies in play there won't be a benefit from the extra work.

Been there and done that. Years back, I experimented with corner braces and reflectors and got a whole lot of inconclusive data for a couple day's worth of work. I use the corner bracing for strength and aesthetics now.
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post #173 of 244 Old 06-17-2017, 09:18 AM
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Would someone please provide a current link to dimensioned drawings/plans for the Pico? I attempted to access the plans via a prior link but I am not having any luck.

Thanks.
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post #174 of 244 Old 06-17-2017, 10:49 AM
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Would someone please provide a current link to dimensioned drawings/plans for the Pico? I attempted to access the plans via a prior link but I am not having any luck.

Thanks.
Just tested things, the link to the plans worked for me.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post26806953

The pictures are dead links for some reason, but the link to the plans still works.
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post #175 of 244 Old 06-17-2017, 08:36 PM
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Just tested things, the link to the plans worked for me.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...l#post26806953

The pictures are dead links for some reason, but the link to the plans still works.
Thank you.

I'll chalk it up to user error on my part.

Thanks again.
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post #176 of 244 Old 07-31-2017, 12:18 PM
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If I can get both drivers for about the same price ($85 delivered for Alpine vs $87 delivered for Sundown), is there any benefit going with one over the other? Does either one have better SQ, durability, or ease of installation? Or is it a coin toss? I've read the Alpine isn't really meant for reverse-mounting whereas the Sundown looks like may be, so that might be one thing to consider. And the Alpine has a slightly larger voice coil (2.6" vs 2.5") and a tad more excursion (15mm vs 14mm), but not sure if either of those matter at all. Any other thoughts before I pull the trigger on a few?
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post #177 of 244 Old 10-28-2017, 05:37 PM
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Why is the first segment right after the driver mount point choked down by an overhanging board ? This isn't represented by the hornresp model.

Is the intent to obtain deeper bass or is this a render error ?


Thanks
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post #178 of 244 Old 10-29-2017, 08:40 AM
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Why is the first segment right after the driver mount point choked down by an overhanging board ? This isn't represented by the hornresp model.

Is the intent to obtain deeper bass or is this a render error ?


Thanks
That's intentional. It forms a throat chamber, which is in the model (see highlights).

The reason behind the throat chamber was to make a bit more room for the driver to fit and provide an even load across the cone to mitigate against cone rocking.

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post #179 of 244 Old 10-29-2017, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jleonard71 View Post
If I can get both drivers for about the same price ($85 delivered for Alpine vs $87 delivered for Sundown), is there any benefit going with one over the other? Does either one have better SQ, durability, or ease of installation? Or is it a coin toss? I've read the Alpine isn't really meant for reverse-mounting whereas the Sundown looks like may be, so that might be one thing to consider. And the Alpine has a slightly larger voice coil (2.6" vs 2.5") and a tad more excursion (15mm vs 14mm), but not sure if either of those matter at all. Any other thoughts before I pull the trigger on a few?
Pretty much a coin flip between those two options.
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post #180 of 244 Old 10-29-2017, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
That's intentional. It forms a throat chamber, which is in the model (see highlights).

The reason behind the throat chamber was to make a bit more room for the driver to fit and provide an even load across the cone to mitigate against cone rocking.

Thx .
I'm going to try my jbl gt5-10 in the picowrecker . If it doesn't work out, I'll buy another driver . My WT3 seems to have bit the dust so until it's replacement arrives , I can't measure the real t/s parameters of the JBL
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