Lilmike's Picowrecker - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 239 Old 07-02-2019, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trimlock View Post
My next "big" box project is going to use the same OSB. I find its not as easy to work with as MDF, but it does glue better and it takes nails WAY better. You could practically hold it together for ever using just nails.
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Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
MDF may be cheap and it may be flat, and it may machine beautifully, but it just sucks in so many other ways.

MDF is weak. It doesn't take screws well. It doesn't always glue well. The dust is awful. Whatever you do, don't let MDF get wet, that does not end well. I've built plenty of cabs with MDF over the years, I am just not a fan.

If you can find it, the Advantech OSB is a pretty good material to work with. It is flat, it is a uniform thickness, it seems to machine pretty well, it is stiffer than Arauco, and it is void-free. It glues well with Titebond or PL, the material fails before the glued joints. I use 1 1/4" brads or 1 1/2" narrow crown staples for assembly and biscuits for alignment. Sawdust looks like sawdust too, not the powder from MDF. Only downsides? It is ugly and it is heavy. Heavy I can deal with, ugly's a challenge. Certainly not a stain-grade surface, nowhere close. I'll be coating my Advantech cabinets (some 12" ported mains) with sprayed Duratex. I can't veneer over Advantech without filling and sanding, but then I tend to fill and sand anything I veneer.
Have you guys (or anyone else) tried a roundover on this OSB? Any chunking or chipping issues?
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post #212 of 239 Old 07-02-2019, 03:50 PM
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Haven't done roundovers yet, haven't needed them.

Cuts, routed driver cutouts, biscuit slots, and bevels have all been fine, and were done with less tearout and fuzz than with Arauco.

Going to cut my baffles and sub-baffles on the CNC this weekend, we'll see how that goes. One thing's for sure, it will be a sawdust storm (no dust collection on the CNC yet), but I expect that it will cut fine once feeds, speeds, and DOC are dialed in for my machine. Still no roundovers planned for this project, but I'll see if I can cut one in some scrap to see.

So far, I like working with Advantech, but I can't get it at Home Depot. I have to buy it at a local lumberyard that's a bit more of a drive than Home Depot. I have to drive to get Arauco though, and Advantech is available closer than Arauco. I do miss the days when Arauco was $26 a sheet at Home Depot.
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post #213 of 239 Old 07-02-2019, 04:50 PM
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Just because someone will ask, here is an MDF box with driver on a scale. 106.2lbs
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post #214 of 239 Old 07-03-2019, 07:08 AM
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One more question. I've been wondering this for a while.
On the layout PDF, you only get placement numbers (and numbers for each piece where it is placed).
I can see from Audiophile75's post above of the internal folds that there are some pieces that need to be cut at an angle with a table saw.
The most obvious ones are on the baffle piece. I haven't seen anywhere that calls out these angles.
Is it more of a place the piece, then mark the angle with the piece that's already there and cut to that angle?
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post #215 of 239 Old 07-03-2019, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notfastenough View Post
Have you guys (or anyone else) tried a roundover on this OSB? Any chunking or chipping issues?
No edging profile done yet, but when I get around to it in the future I'll test it out. Although if I were to guess I imagine it would be less of an issue with this than solid wood and the edges with MDF. Cabinet grade ply would pose the least amount of issues IMO.

I'd like to try a veneer on my next one which would require a lot of filling and sanding with this stuff. Will take a lot of experimentation.
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post #216 of 239 Old 07-03-2019, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
One more question. I've been wondering this for a while.
On the layout PDF, you only get placement numbers (and numbers for each piece where it is placed).
I can see from Audiophile75's post above of the internal folds that there are some pieces that need to be cut at an angle with a table saw.
The most obvious ones are on the baffle piece. I haven't seen anywhere that calls out these angles.
Is it more of a place the piece, then mark the angle with the piece that's already there and cut to that angle?
This approach works fine. You can also pull the angles directly from the digital plans using the Sketchup software.

I do both. I typically "dry-build" the whole cabinet before I open up the PL to make sure that things fit together properly. That lets me fit up the panels and get all the angles cut properly.
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post #217 of 239 Old 07-05-2019, 09:18 AM
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Great idea! Thanks!
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post #218 of 239 Old 09-09-2019, 11:27 AM
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Another Alpine S-W10D2 question.
I re-read this thread and lilmike, you mention that the SWS is the model that works with these plans.
Before I cut the hole in the baffle, I want to make sure that this is the correct driver.
Which P/S parameter(s) would be the one to tell if this is the correct Alpine Type-S driver?

Here are the specs (via Sonic Electronix):
Subwoofer Series Type-S (Alpine)
Subwoofer Size 10"
Peak Power Handling 1800 watts
RMS Power Handling 600 watts
Voice Coil(s) Dual
Impedance (Per Voice Coil) 2 ohms
Frequency Response 26 - 200 Hz
Sensitivity 85 dB
Xmax (millimeters) 15 mm
Subwoofer Design Round / Circle
Main Cone Color Dark Gray
Woofer Composition Kevlar Reinforced Pulp Paper
Woofer Surround HAMR

Free-Air Resonance (Fs) 33 Hz
Equivalent Compliance (Vas) 24.3 liters
Total Speaker Q Value (Qts) .44
Electrical Q Value (Qes) .48
Electrical Resistance of Voice Coil (Re) 1.8 ohms
Mechanical Q Value (Qms) 4.43

Is this the correct one? (I hope)
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post #219 of 239 Old 09-09-2019, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
Another Alpine S-W10D2 question.
I re-read this thread and lilmike, you mention that the SWS is the model that works with these plans.
Before I cut the hole in the baffle, I want to make sure that this is the correct driver.
Which P/S parameter(s) would be the one to tell if this is the correct Alpine Type-S driver?

Here are the specs (via Sonic Electronix):
Subwoofer Series Type-S (Alpine)
Subwoofer Size 10"
Peak Power Handling 1800 watts
RMS Power Handling 600 watts
Voice Coil(s) Dual
Impedance (Per Voice Coil) 2 ohms
Frequency Response 26 - 200 Hz
Sensitivity 85 dB
Xmax (millimeters) 15 mm
Subwoofer Design Round / Circle
Main Cone Color Dark Gray
Woofer Composition Kevlar Reinforced Pulp Paper
Woofer Surround HAMR

Free-Air Resonance (Fs) 33 Hz
Equivalent Compliance (Vas) 24.3 liters
Total Speaker Q Value (Qts) .44
Electrical Q Value (Qes) .48
Electrical Resistance of Voice Coil (Re) 1.8 ohms
Mechanical Q Value (Qms) 4.43

Is this the correct one? (I hope)
I think so. According to @autox320 , his build turned out great and I believe he used the same drivers.

No personal experience though.
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post #220 of 239 Old 09-09-2019, 12:27 PM
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Right on! Thanks so much. I figured this was correct but wanted to ask specifically.
I just bought some Advantech over the weekend and made some sawdust.
Starting to dry fit everything now. Thanks again for all your work on these horn projects.
I can't wait to hear them. I've waited several years to get to the point of actually building them.
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post #221 of 239 Old 09-09-2019, 04:20 PM
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Are you guys using T-Nuts to bolt the driver down?
I'm wondering if there is even any room under the baffle to put T-Nuts.
It looks like the small piece is in the way towards the front of the cabinet.

And surely getting things positioned within a 1/16" is okay.
The fractions threw me a little.

Last edited by Mr. Electric Wiz; 09-09-2019 at 05:32 PM.
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post #222 of 239 Old 09-09-2019, 08:07 PM
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T-nuts are extra work and for questionably dedicated aficionados,
obviously worth it
but for mounting a 50+ lb UXL 18 driver,
these 3/4" oak blocks, added with brads and PL3
holes pre-drilled and waxed,
1 1/4" kreg screws because of the washer head
no issues

that driver is only 20-ish lbs
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DIY FAN Denon X4400 , ATI A 2000 for 7.4.6 SCATMOS Sammy 82" 4K/HDR
L/R: Fusion 15 V2 , C: 88 Special , SL/SR: 88 Special(V2) , RL/RR: F-3, TF/TR: Volt 6's TM: SLX, FH: F4Q4
SUBMAXIMUS V2, ,Submaximus V3,LOWARHORNCustom Dual Driver VBSS,2 x 6000DSP
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post #223 of 239 Old 09-09-2019, 08:30 PM
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How would a UM10 perform in this enclosure?
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post #224 of 239 Old 09-10-2019, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
Are you guys using T-Nuts to bolt the driver down?
I'm wondering if there is even any room under the baffle to put T-Nuts.
It looks like the small piece is in the way towards the front of the cabinet.

And surely getting things positioned within a 1/16" is okay.
The fractions threw me a little.
I have tnuts in mine cause mounting is tight at the back holes. The extra effort makes driver removal much easier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
Another Alpine S-W10D2 question.
I re-read this thread and lilmike, you mention that the SWS is the model that works with these plans.
Before I cut the hole in the baffle, I want to make sure that this is the correct driver.
Which P/S parameter(s) would be the one to tell if this is the correct Alpine Type-S driver?

Here are the specs (via Sonic Electronix):
Subwoofer Series Type-S (Alpine)
Subwoofer Size 10"
Peak Power Handling 1800 watts
RMS Power Handling 600 watts
Voice Coil(s) Dual
Impedance (Per Voice Coil) 2 ohms
Frequency Response 26 - 200 Hz
Sensitivity 85 dB
Xmax (millimeters) 15 mm
Subwoofer Design Round / Circle
Main Cone Color Dark Gray
Woofer Composition Kevlar Reinforced Pulp Paper
Woofer Surround HAMR

Free-Air Resonance (Fs) 33 Hz
Equivalent Compliance (Vas) 24.3 liters
Total Speaker Q Value (Qts) .44
Electrical Q Value (Qes) .48
Electrical Resistance of Voice Coil (Re) 1.8 ohms
Mechanical Q Value (Qms) 4.43

Is this the correct one? (I hope)
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilmike View Post
I think so. According to @autox320 , his build turned out great and I believe he used the same drivers.

No personal experience though.
Yes the Alpine type S SWS is replaced with the Alpine S-W series (pancake underhung basket and bit more power handling). I'm using the Alpine S-W10D2 in 4 cabinets. Can't tell ya how many comments I have from those that have heard the setup. It can deliver Usually leave the 4 cabs online, but when friends or demo I'll have the other 2 wire pairs right there for quick connect. 6 is a bit much for daily listening.

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #225 of 239 Old 09-10-2019, 11:29 AM
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Thanks so much for answering my questions!
I'm putting the puzzle together now. I'm moving slowly as to not mess anything up on this first one.
This has been a long time coming. I'm building 2 right now for my home office (where I listen to most of my music).
THe sub I've been using is a crappy 10" klipsch from one of my old HT's. These two should BLOW it way.
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post #226 of 239 Old 09-10-2019, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
Thanks so much for answering my questions!
I'm putting the puzzle together now. I'm moving slowly as to not mess anything up on this first one.
This has been a long time coming. I'm building 2 right now for my home office (where I listen to most of my music).
THe sub I've been using is a crappy 10" klipsch from one of my old HT's. These two should BLOW it way.

Just find a way to have a HPF [email protected] either passive(inline cap on +) or active dsp. Then juice ie I like a ep4000 running one per channel @4ohm s about 950w RMS each. Set your main device volume to not clip the ep4000 either by measuring or look at the ep's lights. Full output for a pair should par with a couple well prepped 18's using far less wattage.

"dB levels? - Long as can't foam my beer."
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post #227 of 239 Old 09-10-2019, 11:51 AM
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These will get ~500 watts each. I will proabably never use anything even close to this though.
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post #228 of 239 Old 09-10-2019, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig S King View Post
How would a UM10 perform in this enclosure?
I couldn't tell you but I do know that this enclosure has a fairly narrow set of drivers that it works well with.
You could pull the p/s specs from one of the known good drivers, and cross reference with the UM10 and see how close they are.
I do know that tapped horns do not like high BL (motor). At least I think I recall that from many reads through of tapped horn builds.
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post #229 of 239 Old 09-10-2019, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
You could pull the p/s specs from one of the known good drivers,
I've seen this reference a couple of times now. Do you mean T/S parameters?

Sub builds: Yet another Infinity 1260 build | Twins! | Modified V.B.S.S. build | UM12-22 builds | AV stand and sealed UM18s

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post #230 of 239 Old 09-10-2019, 05:28 PM
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I've seen this reference a couple of times now. Do you mean T/S parameters?
That's what I meant. Doh!
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post #231 of 239 Old 09-10-2019, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
That's what I meant. Doh!
No worries. Just wanted to make sure I (and others that may not understand what you were referring to) understood what you meant.

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post #232 of 239 Old 09-13-2019, 03:12 PM
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Another couple of questions.

**The front piece is marked 31 3/8" but on the cut sheet and inventory sheet, it's marked 32 1/8".
Either this is a typo, or this piece is meant to be trimmed. The larger (32 1/8") seems to fit fine, and the length is consistent with the layout as well. I'm assuming the actual size is what is on the cut sheet, and the layout is wrong?

**The baffle piece with the 9" measurement going from the inside of the small wedge shaped piece ends on the left side in a seemingly arbitrary place. If the baffle is one piece, then what is the left side of this measurment referring to? And what is the 5.672" measure referring to as well (the center of the driver hole?)?
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post #233 of 239 Old 09-16-2019, 09:57 AM
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I assumed #1 above was correct. Just a misprint on the panels sketchup file.
The second question should be fairly easy to figure out I think. There's not a lot of places that this driver can go. Side to side is easy, and front to back sems that the driver has to go between the bottom (wedge piece) and the back wall.
Finally got 2 of these dry fitted! Making major progress.. Getting excited! Thanks again for putting these plans together lilmike!

Last edited by Mr. Electric Wiz; 09-17-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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post #234 of 239 Old 09-18-2019, 01:16 PM
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Photo of my cabinets dry fitted. I have to re-do one of the baffle pieces because my pocket is in the way on one.
This has been such a fun project.
Not sure why my photo changed to being a side view.
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post #235 of 239 Old 11-06-2019, 03:16 PM
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Finally almost done with final assembly and I have a question.
Do I need to put a low pass filter on these?
I'm using the Alpine drivers.
I had thought I had read somewhere to put on a 24db @ 23Hz.
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post #236 of 239 Old 11-06-2019, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Electric Wiz View Post
Finally almost done with final assembly and I have a question.
Do I need to put a low pass filter on these?
I'm using the Alpine drivers.
I had thought I had read somewhere to put on a 24db @ 23Hz.
I have mine set fall off a cliff at 20 hz
I have never had an issue outside of my jaw hitting the ground.
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post #237 of 239 Old 11-07-2019, 06:59 AM
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Nice! Thank you!
These are taking me forever to complete. It has been a super fun project though.
Can't wait to get the cabinets finished and painted. Took me a bit to figure out that you needed to remove the 'beauty ring' on the Alpine driver so it sits flush with the baffle.
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post #238 of 239 Old 11-07-2019, 01:41 PM
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Yeah, there should be a high pass on these.

Simulations say 23 Hz at 24 dB/octave is appropriate, but real life may be a bit different, a lot depends on how you listen and how hard you push things.
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post #239 of 239 Old 11-09-2019, 07:17 AM
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Found these guys hiding in the corner of a local audio shop. Guess I'm gonna have to dust off the saw.
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