SEOS-24, BMS 4594ND, Dual AE TD18H+ - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 01:51 PM - Thread Starter
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SEOS-24, BMS 4594ND, Dual AE TD18H+

There are similar builds by Chop and erwinfrombelgium, but this one will use different mid-bass drivers. I plan on using the same 450hz XO and the MTM arrangement.

The AE drivers (8ohm with black phase plug, non-apollo) have already been purchased, and I've heard the lead time from AE can be a little while, but I’m in no rush. I need to sell my current mains before I have the cash to purchase the BMS drivers anyway.

Since I already have a miniDSP 10x10 and enough amps, this will be all active, with the exception of the 6,300hz crossover for the HF driver in the BMS coax.

The 18s will be ported with a slot port, with a tune somewhere from 35-40hz. They obviously won’t be completely full range, but most of the time they’ll be crossed at 80hz anyway. However, with a ~35hz tune, they should do fairly well for most music without subs. WinISD simulations seem to show that anything over 5 cu.ft per 18 isn't beneficial, so I’m leaning towards that number for box volume for each 18.

Similar to Chop’s build, it will be modular, but with this one, even the SEOS will have its own box completely separate from the 18s. Since Baltic birch isn’t cheap, and this build will be modular without weight concerns, I’ll be using MDF with plenty of bracing and doubled up baffles.


EDIT:


Final cabinet tune ended up being 25hz. Crossover point is 450hz.

Final outside dimensions of the boxes:

Width: 25"
Height: 29.5" (tops and bottoms are doubled up on MDF (1.5" thick))
Depth: 29.25" (front baffle is 1.5" thick)

Ports: (2) 11.375" wide, by 1.5" tall, by 8.5" deep ports per box (depth includes 1.5" baffle).
































Last edited by lukeamdman; 04-01-2018 at 02:12 PM.
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post #2 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 02:31 PM
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Nice Luke, so dual 18s per speaker?
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post #3 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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post #4 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:00 PM
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When did you order & receive your AE drivers?

John is currently quoting 6 - 8 weeks lead time
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post #5 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awedio View Post
When did you order & receive your AE drivers?

John is currently quoting 6 - 8 weeks lead time
I just purchased them today. 8 weeks is fine, no rush.
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post #6 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:05 PM
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Ok.

Did you consider getting the Apollo option, even though these are mid-bass drivers ?

Wooow, 18 inch for mid-bass, f%^&ing crazies on these forum's
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post #7 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awedio View Post
Ok.

Did you consider getting the Apollo option, even though these are mid-bass drivers ?

Wooow, 18 inch for mid-bass, f%^&ing crazies on these forum's
I did, but at an extra $150 per driver....yikes.
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post #8 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:10 PM
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Yep, I hear you.

You ordered 6 AE18's?
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post #9 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Yep, I hear you.

You ordered 6 AE18's?
I'm running a phantom center, so only 4.
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post #10 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:14 PM
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Even with only 4, that's is still a lot of cone area
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post #11 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:36 PM
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Great to see this happening Luke! Will be following along.

Be sure to try different XO points. Just cause 450 worked for chop doesn't mean its optimal for you. What is your ceiling height?
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post #12 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Great to see this happening Luke! Will be following along.

Be sure to try different XO points. Just cause 450 worked for chop doesn't mean its optimal for you. What is your ceiling height?
The soffits the speakers will be under are only 7ft.

If the crossover point has to be somewhere between 450-600hz that's fine with me. I guess I won't know for sure until I take measurements.
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post #13 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 06:00 PM
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Is it 7ft at the ceiling reflection?

I'm betting a little higher XO would be beneficial for you here. Better vertical directivity match to the SEOS 24 (I'd have to look more closely at the numbers though, this is off the top of my head), and a little better power handling. Maybe 550hz with LR4 acoustic slopes. Possibly BW2 on the tweeter and LR4 on the woofer to get there. Set delay and you'll be grinning ear to ear.

Really happy to see this happen. Chop's build is great but this is how I would have done it if I were him.
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post #14 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 07:03 PM
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Another great build. Subscribed for sure.
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post #15 of 687 Old 09-03-2014, 07:31 PM
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This will be one he'll of a speaker. Nice selection of drivers.

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post #16 of 687 Old 09-04-2014, 08:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Is it 7ft at the ceiling reflection?

I'm betting a little higher XO would be beneficial for you here. Better vertical directivity match to the SEOS 24 (I'd have to look more closely at the numbers though, this is off the top of my head), and a little better power handling. Maybe 550hz with LR4 acoustic slopes. Possibly BW2 on the tweeter and LR4 on the woofer to get there. Set delay and you'll be grinning ear to ear.

Really happy to see this happen. Chop's build is great but this is how I would have done it if I were him.
Ceiling reflection will be around 7'8", but I've stuffed all the floor joists with insulation, and even when the ceiling is finished it's going to be either fabric or panels of 1.5" thick OC 705.
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post #17 of 687 Old 09-04-2014, 08:34 AM
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Nice ceiling

Then just the floor would be the concern.
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post #18 of 687 Old 09-04-2014, 09:52 AM
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Now this is the build I want to see!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukeamdman View Post
There are similar builds by Chop and erwinfrombelgium, but this one will use different mid-bass drivers. I plan on using the same 450hz XO and the MTM arrangement.

The AE drivers (8ohm with black phase plug, non-apollo) have already been purchased, and I've heard the lead time from AE can be a little while, but I’m in no rush. I need to sell my current mains before I have the cash to purchase the BMS drivers anyway.

Since I already have a miniDSP 10x10 and enough amps, this will be all active, with the exception of the 6,300hz crossover for the HF driver in the BMS coax.

The 18s will be ported with a slot port, with a tune somewhere from 35-40hz. They obviously won’t be completely full range, but most of the time they’ll be crossed at 80hz anyway. However, with a ~35hz tune, they should do fairly well for most music without subs. WinISD simulations seem to show that anything over 5 cu.ft per 18 isn't beneficial, so I’m leaning towards that number for box volume for each 18.

Similar to Chop’s build, it will be modular, but with this one, even the SEOS will have its own box completely separate from the 18s. Since Baltic birch isn’t cheap, and this build will be modular without weight concerns, I’ll be using MDF with plenty of bracing and doubled up baffles.
I am using a single TD18H with my mains. Running sealed 4.25 CF right now, but may go a little smaller. Was crossing at 80hz. Lowered to 40hz am am liking what I hear. Need to do some sweeps, but waiting until Face2 gets done with measurements before I start in with too much. TD18H's are really nice drivers. You can get all the mid-bass you want.
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post #20 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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WinISD is barking at these parameters:



Anyone see the issue?
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post #21 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 10:57 AM
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Remove the data you entered into Qes, Qts, Vas, Fs and let it auto calculate those values.
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post #22 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Remove the data you entered into Qes, Qts, Vas, Fs and let it auto calculate those values.
Bingo, thanks!

What's the rule of thumb for the first port resonance? If I'm going to be crossing this most likely around 550hz, how far above 550hz should that first resonance be?

In a simulation with a 7cu.ft box, 35hz tune, and a 23.5" x 2" slot port, it's showing around 747hz.

Is that too low?



Also, how does the port velocity look? This is with 600w.
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post #23 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 05:04 PM
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Rule of thumb has been to stay one octave higher than your crossover. So for a 450hz XO I would shoot for a 900 1st port resonance. BUT this is not always possible while trying to keep ports from chuffing. My goals have made me chose what SPL I will actually be seeing and design for that. A lot of the times large woofers are hard to find a high port resonance and allow enough for air speed to keep in check.

BUT YMMV.
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post #24 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 05:16 PM
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I'd let the port velocity go up to allow for a high port resonance. Neither are very important to me personally. Also, model the port speed with a high pass on it and you'll find the port speed goes way down, allowing for smaller ports.
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post #25 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 05:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I'd let the port velocity go up to allow for a high port resonance. Neither are very important to me personally. Also, model the port speed with a high pass on it and you'll find the port speed goes way down, allowing for smaller ports.
That picture is with a BW3 28hz HPF...

You should have seen it before the filter!
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post #26 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 07:50 PM
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Ok good. Won't you cross to subs around 40hz though? Maybe even higher.
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post #27 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok good. Won't you cross to subs around 40hz though? Maybe even higher.
Yep. 90% of the time they'll be crossed at 80hz and run with the subs.
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post #28 of 687 Old 09-06-2014, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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If I shrink the port from 23.5" x 2" to 23.5" x 1.5", it raises the first port resonance from ~750hz to ~1,100hz. That will have to do.

The box at 7cu.ft is larger than I'd like, but making it any smaller requires the port to be even smaller in order to bring the resonance down, which makes the port velocity go way up. I think what I have planned above is a good balance of everything, unless one of the gurus on here see something I don't!



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post #29 of 687 Old 09-07-2014, 01:25 AM
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fwiw, the ports on this one appear to be about 28 sq inches cross sectional area, each. two drivers, two ports. they are real 20hz full rangers, so you might be able to go a little less port than that per driver since you won't be tuned quite as low.


http://www.genelec.com/products/1036a/

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post #30 of 687 Old 09-07-2014, 07:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Since the box for the SEOS will be 25" wide, here's what I'm planning for each 18:

25" wide, 28" tall, and 21.5" deep. That should be about 7.2cu.ft before the bracing, port, and the driver.

Port will be 22.75" wide (after a .75" brace down the center), 1.5" tall, and 6" deep.
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