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post #91 of 653 Old 10-20-2014, 04:26 PM
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I like the fruit in the picture.

I use my 1.25" round over bit free hand with my router and mdf stilts I had to put on it. The big is too large to go in the housing so I had to extend the legs. I have to be careful when using it but I have done it so many times that I have consistent cuts with no worries at all. Secondly the bit cuts through like butter on almost anything. MDF you hardly feel. I push at a slower rate maybe but it looks great. Wish I could have the 1.5" bit but 125 dollars is too much for me. Would get a table but that is too dear for me and I dont have the room. Maybe I should build one.

Anyways just wanted to add my useless opinion.
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post #92 of 653 Old 10-20-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I could do this. Never considered it. Have you ever seen it done? Why do you consider this optimal ?
Yeah its been done lots of times. Think about the large IWATA setups youve seen. A huge waveguide sitting on a box right?

An enclosure provides nothing for a waveguide outside of an apparatus to hold it. All the damping efforts and concern about enclosure coloration of the waveguide can be avoided all together by getting rid if the enclosure around the waveguide.

You asked about a performance ideal and thats my opinion on that front, no box needed for the waveguide.

However i was assuming you would mount it on a baffle wall since you mentioned that. This would ensure no baffle edge diffraction off the waveguide itself.

Finally i would reiterate, i think the enclosure influence on the waveguide is miniscule. My SEOS 12s share the enclosure with the woofer and measure favorably and sound fine to me.

Another thing to consider is toe-in and your baffle wall. How will you implement this? Ideally the baffle wall will accomodate the soeaker toe-in so that the speaker sits flush at proper angle to the listening position.
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post #93 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 03:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick****achi View Post
Yeah its been done lots of times. Think about the large IWATA setups youve seen. A huge waveguide sitting on a box right?

An enclosure provides nothing for a waveguide outside of an apparatus to hold it. All the damping efforts and concern about enclosure coloration of the waveguide can be avoided all together by getting rid if the enclosure around the waveguide.

You asked about a performance ideal and thats my opinion on that front, no box needed for the waveguide.

However i was assuming you would mount it on a baffle wall since you mentioned that. This would ensure no baffle edge diffraction off the waveguide itself.

Finally i would reiterate, i think the enclosure influence on the waveguide is miniscule. My SEOS 12s share the enclosure with the woofer and measure favorably and sound fine to me.

Another thing to consider is toe-in and your baffle wall. How will you implement this? Ideally the baffle wall will accomodate the soeaker toe-in so that the speaker sits flush at proper angle to the listening position.
Would there be any benefit in a Seos-15 + DNA-360 2- way design to mount the waveguide on top of the woofer box with no enclosure? I have seen the iWatta designs, and I like the look, just curious as to whether the Seos-15 would benefit from this, or is this more of a benefit for larger horns/waveguides?
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post #94 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 03:54 AM
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Hi Marty,

The only negative i see is possibility of edge diffraction off the edge of the waveguide.

For smaller waveguides the edges still see illumination and that might be detrimental. Ive never measured it directly.

mtg90 did some interesting measurement comparisons on smallish waveguides and diffraction was remarkable.

Mounted in a baffle wall or false baffle addresses the worst diffraction problems.
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post #95 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What about a false baffle or baffle plate. Talk to me.
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post #96 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 06:15 AM
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You could use one of Erich's baffles for mounting the WG, and leave the top, sides and back open. A bullnose or as suggested about, large roundover would also be good to implement.
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post #97 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 06:16 AM
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It depends on how large you're going to make it.
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post #98 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 06:18 AM
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IIRC mtg90 was having issues with diffraction off the mic stand he made. That's a thread I was going to bring up as well. I don't remember how much of that data was tainted by the stand.
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post #99 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
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You could use one of Erich's baffles for mounting the WG, and leave the top, sides and back open. A bullnose or as suggested about, large roundover would also be good to implement.
So basically I could have the baffle go up... but the box stop below the wave guide and be only woofer box with extended up baffle. Then put a nice roundy on the baffle on the top. That mean's I'd need to thicken it somehow right?

Does the roundover need to be perfect? What if I stacked up some pine or some MDF to thicken the sides/back/front of the baffle around the edges and then grinded it by hand with a lathe, or a plain old belt sander then orbital sander...

I could do a fatter roundy... fatter than my router and bits can do. Good idea or bad ?

This as opposed to just glueing on another 2" strip around the top and side of the wave guide on the outside of the box (If I make box) and filling in and sanding with body primer.

Should I inset the waveguide flush ? Worth the trouble ? I'm decent with spray and body work/sanding etc.. I could inset the waveguide flush into the baffle and fill in with body filler and sand it nice. Worth the trouble ? Would this be preferable you think ?
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post #100 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So I think I am going to do two designs. One Sealed. One Ported. I am leaning toward lilmike's thinking above I posted for the ported, with a tune in the high 40's. For Sealed, I am thinking I want to go smaller side but with still great results.

The reason? Because my theater is not done yet, and it's taking forever to even close on the land so I can start the pour so I would likely use these a year or so in my current smallish living room and the space is an issue. The sealed fit the easiest for sure, size can be smaller. I also think it would be cool to compare them, (sealed vs ported) and measure and give my opinion on them. That could be fun.

So I need to finalize two designs, one sealed (smaller) and one ported (optimal). I can do different things with each if I want. I'm having a tough time deciding and navigating between:

BigDaddy Roundovers vs say screw it and baffle wall the theater. (I'd do simple 3/4" material baffle roundovers anyways)
Open vs enclosed top / waveguide

I'm thinking roundovers on the sealed since it's going to be used without baffle wall. Leave the ported alone for now, with idea they will be placed into some type of baffle plate or wall, or that the environment will be built around them for optimal performance. Can I make a baffle wall slant? Like for the LCR plates can the entire wall toe in on the sides? (I am not sure I am explaining this)

I might try some sketchup (I suck with it).
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post #101 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martycool007 View Post
Would there be any benefit in a Seos-15 + DNA-360 2- way design to mount the waveguide on top of the woofer box with no enclosure? I have seen the iWatta designs, and I like the look, just curious as to whether the Seos-15 would benefit from this, or is this more of a benefit for larger horns/waveguides?
I considered mounting my SEOS18 on a bracket but I don't have access to a metal fabrication shop. IMO it's much easier to construct a wood box that will do the job. It doesn't have to be a closed box... mine is open to the rear and the top is removable. It's also easier to create an aesthetically pleasing appearance with wood. I wouldn't have been pleased with the appearance of SEOS/BA750,bracket and cables, fully exposed, on top of the finely finished bass bin. Some of the more exotic horns are very interesting but the SEOS is plain Jane in appearance and IMO just doesn't look good perched on top of a box. These speakers are in the living room not in a man cave or rec room
In addition, the box protects the WG/CD assembly from inadvertent knocks from cat, kids... whatever. There's extra space inside the box so plastic bags of sand can be inserted to add mass to make it even more secure from knocks and vibrations from earthquakes, passing meteorites, etc.
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post #102 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 11:00 AM
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Leaving the waveguide freestanding is the least optimal way to do it. If you want to free hand the round overs I'd say go for it......just make them as symmetrical as you can. Otherwise you can buy large mdf radius corners. Or you can do the kerf cut curved corner method. I just did that and it's pretty slick.

As far as how big to make them? Bigger is better but to keep it practical 3-4" is good. I think Geddes uses 3" radius corners. Really you want to target the 1/4 wl of the lowest frequency of interest at the minimum. For the wg that's 900-1khz so for 1khz that's just over 3".
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post #103 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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What if I did something like tack on some MDF on the outside reccessed back a bit, and sanded in a curve with some body filler ?
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post #104 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Imagine something like that ^

With quarter round stuck in there, or just filled and then sanded with body filler.
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post #105 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 12:45 PM
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I considered mounting my SEOS18 on a bracket but I don't have access to a metal fabrication shop.
I bought mine off of Ebay though Bob Crites, but they are for 1.4" CD's. He may have other sizes available too.
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post #106 of 653 Old 10-21-2014, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How about I pick up (8) closed back mids, skip the SEOS 15" and make a unity horn for top with DNA 360 in the center and four mids on the sides ?

Way too crazy ?
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post #107 of 653 Old 10-22-2014, 06:12 AM
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Not crazy, but you need mids that will work. Then you need to know how to design the mid chambers and get them positioned correctly on the horn. There's a lot to it.
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post #108 of 653 Old 10-22-2014, 06:15 AM
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Don't you already have the TDs and waveguides? Stay the course man!
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post #109 of 653 Old 10-22-2014, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't have the waveguides yet. I need to get from Erich, waiting for them to get listed on the DIYsoundgroup site.
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post #110 of 653 Old 10-22-2014, 07:51 AM
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Email him, he'll work out a way to get them to you.
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post #111 of 653 Old 10-22-2014, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Email him, he'll work out a way to get them to you.
I've done that He seems busy so I don't push it. No reason to bother him too much if I don't need them just yet. But I do need them soon.
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post #112 of 653 Old 10-27-2014, 05:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm thinking about grabbing the B stock SEOS since I'll be building it into the baffle.
Thoughts?
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post #113 of 653 Old 11-05-2014, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Ok so I grabbed the SEOS 15" and I think for the sealed I'm going to build the waveguide into the speakers like tux did, using bondo as a filler and sanding.


What I need to decide now is a volume, What you guys think is the optimal minimum volume for a sealed enclosure ?

My plan is do sealed first, then a larger ported box second. In the initial spot they are going space is a premium .
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post #114 of 653 Old 11-08-2014, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I checked and the biggest round over router bit I have is this :

http://m.ebay.com/itm/370957538978?_mwBanner=1

It's 1" radius.


Worth even bothering to go a bit bigger ?

Like this: http://m.ebay.com/itm/141449807764?nav=SEARCH

Or this:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/141450428321?nav=SEARCH

Should I just roll with what I have ?

I have 1/2" and 3/4" and 1" radius bits.
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post #115 of 653 Old 11-09-2014, 06:04 PM
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Well larger will work lower in freq. Are you mounting the waveguides in the same cab as the woofer? 1.5" will be a bit better for the waveguide but the effect for the woofer would likely be negligible.
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post #116 of 653 Old 11-10-2014, 05:03 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Well larger will work lower in freq. Are you mounting the waveguides in the same cab as the woofer? 1.5" will be a bit better for the waveguide but the effect for the woofer would likely be negligible.
Yes same cabinet
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post #117 of 653 Old 11-10-2014, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How about binding posts ? Anyone have a suggestion ?

Since it's active I'll just hard wire each driver to the back. Should I go with Speakon ? Or hard wired red/black binding posts ? Banana plugs ?
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post #118 of 653 Old 11-10-2014, 03:55 PM
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Speakon, without a doubt.
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post #119 of 653 Old 11-11-2014, 10:08 AM
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I'll never use anything but Speakon.
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post #120 of 653 Old 11-19-2014, 10:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am struggling with the aesthetic design element. I am thinking I want to go nice dyed stained wood over high gloss piano black, with curves under and points and edges on top. bad Idea? Just leave it a plain box? Or try to style it up? What you think ?
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