My Micro-marty build - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 11 Old 10-25-2014, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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My Micro-marty build

I've had my micro-cube for about 3 months now and I would just like to relay my experience and get some feedback if anyone has any. It started out rough, but with some tweaking got much better.

My original build post is here: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...-15-build.html (I'm not sure of the etiquette of starting a new post or using the old one, apologies if I'm doing it wrong).

When I first hooked them up I ran Audyssey on my Onkyo 805, I was a disappointed with how they sounded. They definitely had a ton of subsonic response, but not much else. Some material sounded like there wasn't even a subwoofer there, for example some music sounded very flat, not the boom I was expecting. But movies had a lot of very low frequencies. I could see a lot of movement, but not a lot of thump. I knew something was wrong when one of the subs bottomed out while playing War of the Worlds (About the 23 minute mark when the ground starts to shake). The volume wasn't even that loud. I think -17, iirc. (Coincidentally, search youtube for "sub bottoms out" and you'll find someone with the same problem at the exact same point. You can hear the cop say "Clear the intersection", then "pop").

I figured I needed a subsonic filter, since I bought the non-dsp version of the Behringer inuke3000 (impulse buy at a store in town and that's what they had in stock). I bought these (http://www.amazon.com/FMOD-Crossover.../dp/B0006N41BU). They helped a bit, but not a huge improvement. I could play War of the Worlds a bit louder without bottoming out. Obviously the inuke dsp would have been much better.

I played around with different test tones and music trying to pinpoint what was wrong. I noticed that there were some odd sounds coming from the sub when there should have been just clean bass. Almost like a metallic chirping. I also noticed clicks when changing the volume on the receiver. When I disconnect the mains, I could very faintly hear the full range frequencies of whatever I was playing coming from the subs. Obviously, I never noticed this with my old sub because it had a low pass filter. I didn't think I would need one since the receiver should only be passing the correct frequencies. I remembered the inuke has some sort of crossover feature I thought I might use. Again, the inuke dsp version would have solved this. I discovered my inuke is slightly different than the manual available on Behringer's website. My crossover feature would put the high pass to Channel A and the low to Channel B. The online version is either a high-pass or low-pass for both channels. I figured I could still make due with the single channel by putting both subs in parallel to make a 2ohm load on channel B and nothing on channel A. This should effectively be the same power as the stereo 4ohm load. Once I hooked it up, huge improvement! Sounded a million times better. Obviously, this is not a recommended configuration. Does anyone know *how* bad this is for the amp?

One more final tweak I did, was to turn off Audyssey and EQ everything manually. I liked the way the mains sounded before so it was a matter of trying to duplicate that. Then I had access to the sub EQ. I currently have it set like this:

25Hz: -6bd (minimum)
40Hz: +4db
63Hz: +6db (maximum)
100Hz: +4db
160Hz: +4db

(numbers from memory, may not be 100%)

This was the best improvement yet. This confirms, yet-again I should have bought the dsp version of the inuke. I watched Project X (not my favorite movie, but it's a 5 star (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...cy-charts.html)) and it was ridiculous. The entire house shakes. Bassy music gives that tactile feeling I have been craving. I wonder if I would see much improvement if I upgrade to the dsp version?

All the above took place over the span of 3 months, with the last tweak happening last night. It's been quite a while, but I'm finally happy with my build. The main reason it took so long is that I can only really test things out while family is out of the house. The Wife isn't a bass fan like I am. Anyway, I now have two new problems:

While watching Blue Crush (again, 5 star bass from "Master List"), the inuke went into protection a couple of times. It's better than blown subs or fried amp, but I'm just wondering if this is normal. The amp didn't feel hot to the touch. It was barely even warm. With most everything else I'm not even hitting the limiter (the red light on the front). Mind you, it was pretty loud - volume at -5db. Could this have something to do with only using Channel B? Or is this just an exceptional movie for bass? Is this yet another reason to upgrade to the dsp inuke? Maybe even step up to the 6000 for the extra head room, I don't really need that much more power - or do I ?

Secondly, my projector vibrates a lot now. It almost added the the shaky camera effect in Project X, but was somewhat annoying in Blue Crush. It's very firmly mounted the the ceiling, but the ceiling is shaking that much. I can confirm this by standing in the kitchen, which is directly above, and feeling the vibration in the floor. Is this just something I have to live with, or is there anything I can do? Edit: I see projector vibration is a common issue, I should have searched first

Thanks for reading. I would appreciate any feedback.

PS: honestly, they look even better in person, you don't see any of the imperfections
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Last edited by The.Enraged; 10-25-2014 at 01:43 PM. Reason: fix typo, add edit, clarify sentence
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post #2 of 11 Old 10-26-2014, 01:01 AM
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sorry to hear about all these troubles.


I'm not quite sure about this one, but it would seem that that amp should be set in "mono" mode (so the input is routed to both outputs) and then the crossover set to "full range" (the avr will apply the necessary low pass filter depending on where it is set. check that it is set for 80hz as a start).

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post #3 of 11 Old 10-26-2014, 04:23 AM
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I found that the micro needs more then the 600 watts a 3000 can give. With a 6000dsp you can limiter it too 1100-1300 watts and you will not clip near as much. That extra power will give you the headroom you need. Dsp will be better too. Glad you are enjoying it
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post #4 of 11 Old 10-26-2014, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
sorry to hear about all these troubles.


I'm not quite sure about this one, but it would seem that that amp should be set in "mono" mode (so the input is routed to both outputs) and then the crossover set to "full range" (the avr will apply the necessary low pass filter depending on where it is set. check that it is set for 80hz as a start).
I made a video to demo the difference between the full pass and low pass on the inuke. You can hear a metallic rattle on the full pass but not the low pass. The volume is quite low on the receiver (-33db). It took a bit of trial and error to find a volume that wouldn't clip my phone's mic, but still being able to hear the "rattle". Louder volumes the rattle is very apparent, but with the mains you would be forgiven if you didn't notice it.

As you can see, my inuke is a little different than the online manual version:
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post #5 of 11 Old 10-26-2014, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chalugadp View Post
I found that the micro needs more then the 600 watts a 3000 can give. With a 6000dsp you can limiter it too 1100-1300 watts and you will not clip near as much. That extra power will give you the headroom you need. Dsp will be better too. Glad you are enjoying it
"Honey, the guy on the Internet said we need it." Might be a tough sell.

Do you know of a good place to buy in Canada? Parts-express has crazy-expensive shipping. I bought the 3000 from here http://www.axemusic.com/. They have the 6000dsp for CAD$468. Is that reasonable?

Also, I've seen debate about the RMS numbers of the inuke. The online manual doesn't list them, but my paper manual does. So yeah, 2x4ohm is 570w. My crazy configuration might even be a bit less (1/2 of 2x2ohm =~ 550w).
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post #6 of 11 Old 10-26-2014, 10:41 AM
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The 3000 in stereo is about 600 Watts . I'm in Canada but close to border. Get it shipped to states and pick it up. To canada the price you listed is decent. Sell the 3000 on avs classifieds and you are out less.
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post #7 of 11 Old 10-26-2014, 12:53 PM
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from your avr to your sub, are you running a single cable?

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post #8 of 11 Old 10-26-2014, 01:01 PM
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AVShop.ca buy your inuke there , will come to same price as buying in the US
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post #9 of 11 Old 10-27-2014, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
from your avr to your sub, are you running a single cable?
Currently it goes like this:

[receiver sub out] -> RCA -> Female-to-female-RCA -> FMOD -> RCA-to-1/4" -> [inuke Channel A]

Throughout the course of testing I probably tried every possible combination including using a Y-splitter and running the inuke in stereo.

I did some re-testing to verify that the FMOD is still necessary, since it was one of the first things I added, and it absolutely is. Without the FMOD, at -21db volume on the receiver, using that scene in War of the Worlds I mentioned, the sub moves about 3" peak-to-peak. Well past Xmax. With the FMOD, I played it at -12, and there still wasn't as much movement, although still plenty loud.
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post #10 of 11 Old 08-29-2015, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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I got a private message asking about my build and if I had still had the 3000 or if I went with the 6000. Turns out I can't reply to PM's until I've posted 15 times (odd). Figured I would post my response here instead:

Yes, I still have the daytons. Much happier with them after I was able to tweak with the inuke dsp.

I sold the 3000 and got the 6000 with the dsp. Couple issues with the 6000 though. First there's a slight hiss - can only hear it if you put your ear up to the speaker. So not a big deal. Other issue is that there's a pop when powering if off externally, i.e. a "smart" power stip that powers off everything plugged into it when the main device powers off. I've consigned to just pressing the power button manually - no pop that way. Didn't have either issue with the 3000. Even with those issues I would still recommend the 6000, having the extra power is awesome. I have the limiter set to about half, so about 1600w per channel and I'm hard pressed to get it to kick in even if I try (the red light comes on). Also worth noting is you only get full power out of the 3000 at 2ohm per channel and the daytons are 4ohm. So with the 3000 you only get 600wpc. But with the 6000 it's 4ohm, so it's more like 3000wpc. Totally worth it if you think of it that way.

With the dsp it's almost too much configuration. I used REW to try and make it as flat as possible, but found I didn't really like the way it sounded. So I just went by ear - which turned out to be a big hump around 50Hz. I go back and play with it every couple months when I'm bored.

I still have a problem with hot spots in the room. My main listening position is a bit of a low, while the chair off to the side is very hot. I'm using the subs as speaker stands, so I know that's not ideal. If I played with positioning I could probably get it better, but then I would need speaker stands and it wouldn't look as cool
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post #11 of 11 Old 08-29-2015, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The.Enraged View Post
Currently it goes like this:

[receiver sub out] -> RCA -> Female-to-female-RCA -> FMOD -> RCA-to-1/4" -> [inuke Channel A]
Obviously this is no longer necessary with the 6000dsp. The filters in the dsp take care of the infrasonic issues I was having. Haven't bottomed out once even with 4x the power available.
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