IB install with SI ht 24's - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 194 Old 11-15-2014, 09:51 PM - Thread Starter
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IB install with SI ht 24's

Hey guys, long time lurker in the forums and reading a lot about sub building, speakers, and different designs.
I had 4 si ht18s ready to go and now I have 2 si ht24s to play with. Just ordered an inuke dsp6000 for the subs.
they are going to be in the attic above my 14X14 teenagers hang out room/home theater area. I can't wait. Hey go big or go home huh.
I have been to the last two gtgs and beasts house and I am now wading into the deep waters of destructive but blissful bass. I am so honored to have beast just down the street and Nick close as well.
Ill keep updates coming as they are available.
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post #2 of 194 Old 11-15-2014, 10:31 PM
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Subscribed, finally someone building IB with HS24s
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post #3 of 194 Old 11-15-2014, 11:32 PM
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This should be epic. Can't wait to see this come together.

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post #4 of 194 Old 11-16-2014, 01:50 AM
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Nice man! So you live in Asheville? Or a neighboring city? Man, Asheville in the spring can't be beat! Freaking gorgeous!
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post #5 of 194 Old 11-16-2014, 07:47 AM
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What are your plans to find a spot for them ? Are you limited on location ? Will you use a sealed sub to find a good spot for the manifold ?

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post #6 of 194 Old 11-16-2014, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Nice man! So you live in Asheville? Or a neighboring city? Man, Asheville in the spring can't be beat! Freaking gorgeous!
Hey popalock, i meet you at Brandons house at his first gtg before you left for Timbuktu. It was interesting watching you run a 7 hz signal through the 24 he had in place. Yeah, I live about 10 minutes away from beast. Spring is great but the beginning of fall is awesome as well.

I am starting in a bedroom I finally wrestled away from my wife as one of our guest bed rooms. its 14X14 room but I do have to put the ib in the ceiling. Its an upstairs room with a full attic above. I could use a smaller room and put the speakers in the attic above our master bedroom and vent it through the wall behind the tv but I want the bigger room to let the kids have a bigger place to hand our with their friends. I am trying to make a place their friends will want to come so I can get to know their friends. This is how I sold this idea to by better half. its all about the kids, lol. Anyway, it will have to be in the ceiling and I will have to get my sub from down stairs and take it up and move it around, but with proper treatments I don't think it should make a huge difference considering the size of the subs and the small space of the room.

My budget isn't huge so I will have to make some concessions for the mean time but it will all work out. I would love to have beasts danley's but oh well. I am going to go with HTD level 2 towers and center and dipole surrounds. i was going to go with some diy speakers like the cinema 1 88 specials but quite frankly I just don't have time to build and finish speakers at the moment. I just got finished with laundry room and building my office and I'm just done until the spring.

Im going to go with a Yamaha Aventage rxa 1040 receiver and a inuke dsp6000 for the subs. I bought the yamaha aventage rxa730 last year and I really like it so Ii am going to go with the bigger brother for this room.

I will get started offically when I get the subs from nick a week from this monday. It sucks I have to go out of town this week for work.
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post #7 of 194 Old 11-16-2014, 06:02 PM
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In.

I actually am considering the HT18's (4 of them) for an IB wall. I would love to run the 24" but I'd have to sell a Kidney. LOL.
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post #8 of 194 Old 11-16-2014, 06:33 PM
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post #9 of 194 Old 11-17-2014, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bikinpunk View Post
In.

I actually am considering the HT18's (4 of them) for an IB wall. I would love to run the 24" but I'd have to sell a Kidney. LOL.
It would probably surprise you to know I had to sell my kidney and my sons as well to get these.
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post #10 of 194 Old 11-17-2014, 12:01 PM
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It would probably surprise you to know I had to sell my kidney and my sons as well to get these.
I would have gone with the sons first; you can always make more of those.
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post #11 of 194 Old 11-17-2014, 01:10 PM
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This is going to be sweet! I was also wondering where you are going to place them. Being a square 14x14 room I wouldn't be surprised if some modal issues in bass response. Are you planning to spread them out like a 24" in both front corners and a manifold with a couple 18" in each rear corner? Very cool and will be following along!
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post #12 of 194 Old 11-17-2014, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikinpunk View Post
In.

I actually am considering the HT18's (4 of them) for an IB wall. I would love to run the 24" but I'd have to sell a Kidney. LOL.
the human kidney can take a lot. trust me, I basically sit inside my SI24
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post #13 of 194 Old 11-17-2014, 04:06 PM
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Sounds cool. I am trying to put a face to the name but can't recall too many beers I guess.


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post #14 of 194 Old 11-19-2014, 09:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke Kamp View Post
This is going to be sweet! I was also wondering where you are going to place them. Being a square 14x14 room I wouldn't be surprised if some modal issues in bass response. Are you planning to spread them out like a 24" in both front corners and a manifold with a couple 18" in each rear corner? Very cool and will be following along!
I have been trying to think through this but there will be only one manifold probably up front in the center or shifted to one side or the other as needed. I don't have my 4 18s anymore. Had to get rid of them to afford the two 24s. My thought is that if one can presurize beasts theater which is quite a bit bigger and spreads out different directions then two should be quite eye raising in my closed off room. I am already thinking about bass traps and wall treatments to deal with room acoustics and other issues.

I don't think spreading them out would be a good idea due to the issues of flexing the ceiling. My though was to to do a single dual manifold to take care of the issues common to a line array.

I was wondering if I could do two manifolds with one speaker in each or simply figure a way to mount each speaker in a way that will fire through a manifold down into the room.

Not sure about this as it seems to go against any known installation issues.

I just got confirmation that my speakers are finished.
I also got confirmation that my amps will be delivered today
My speakers will be delivered tomorrow as well.

Nick is awesome and has been sending pictures of the speakers through the build process. He was teasing me with the first picture that showed the basket and then I got the one I was waiting for. The text said "finished"
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post #15 of 194 Old 11-19-2014, 03:18 PM
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Yea Nick is a cool guy he sent me pics of my HST 18 being built. Had my name on the voice coil even.


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post #16 of 194 Old 11-19-2014, 07:58 PM
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This is going to be awesome! My single sealed HS-24 dominates the sub-20Hz in the 15'x30' room I've been playing with it in. If I didn't fear what it'd do to this old house or had I two, I'd have tried an IB by now. Very glad for this opportunity to live vicariously.

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I don't think spreading them out would be a good idea due to the issues of flexing the ceiling. My though was to to do a single dual manifold to take care of the issues common to a line array.

I was wondering if I could do two manifolds with one speaker in each or simply figure a way to mount each speaker in a way that will fire through a manifold down into the room.
Remember: a HS-24 is 1.5lbs of mass moving ~3" twenty times a second. It is an electromotive monster that will tear down whatever you bolt it to unless you take greater pains to brace it than any other driver requires. Mine has no problem getting its ~230lbs enclosure moving violently, enough to buck off another hefty sub I had stacked atop it (for comparison listening) had I not cut the volume in time. Screw that to your joists and your house will not be happy. You're really going to want to consider sticking to a single manifold and keeping the drivers dual opposed or your ceiling may develop a quaint, rustic exposed rafters architecture.

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Nick is awesome and has been sending pictures of the speakers through the build process. He was teasing me with the first picture that showed the basket and then I got the one I was waiting for. The text said "finished"
That he is. The man loves building these drivers as much as the owners love listening to them.
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post #17 of 194 Old 11-19-2014, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ErasmusDarwin View Post
This is going to be awesome! My single sealed HS-24 dominates the sub-20Hz in the 15'x30' room I've been playing with it in. If I didn't fear what it'd do to this old house or had I two, I'd have tried an IB by now. Very glad for this opportunity to live vicariously.



Remember: a HS-24 is 1.5lbs of mass moving ~3" twenty times a second. It is an electromotive monster that will tear down whatever you bolt it to unless you take greater pains to brace it than any other driver requires. Mine has no problem getting its ~230lbs enclosure moving violently, enough to buck off another hefty sub I had stacked atop it (for comparison listening) had I not cut the volume in time. Screw that to your joists and your house will not be happy. You're really going to want to consider sticking to a single manifold and keeping the drivers dual opposed or your ceiling may develop a quaint, rustic exposed rafters architecture.



That he is. The man loves building these drivers as much as the owners love listening to them.
That's funny thinking about the rustic exposing of the rafters.

I just got my inuke 6000dsp late tonight.
Can someone point me to some pages about acoustics in relation to bass and placement

Basically if I put it in the end ceiling two ft for the wall it will cover another 2 feet at least with the manifold. Will there be anyway possible for Niles and peaks in a room that small.
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post #18 of 194 Old 11-19-2014, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog01 View Post
That's funny thinking about the rustic exposing of the rafters.

I just got my inuke 6000dsp late tonight.
Can someone point me to some pages about acoustics in relation to bass and placement

Basically if I put it in the end ceiling two ft for the wall it will cover another 2 feet at least with the manifold. Will there be anyway possible for Niles and peaks in a room that small.
For my experience in IB in exactly what you are doing (subs in the attic firing down through a manfiold into the room) and particularly the size of the room you have I suggest putting the manifold/woofers in the center of the room. I am officially stating that the OP does not need a manifold with multiple other 18's as someone else eluded to to 'help' with the response. In a 14x14 room utilizing two HS 24's room nodes will be negligible. Sure there may be one spot that is 1.5 dB down from the rest of the entire room but placing the manifold as close to the listening position as possible has always yielded the best results. Its impressive how much cancellation drywall has when you take into consideration that the drywall and insulation in the attic is solely responsible for containing the rear wave of the subwoofer system. The further away you get from the manifold outlet the more cancellation (reduction of bass) you get. Note that the IB systems I previously mentioned were in a 25x40' room with 16' vaulted ceilings but in a 14x14' room with a flat ceiling the aforementioned cancellation issues will not be as prevalent.

As long as the OP's house doesn't tear itself apart I'm anticipating an F3 of 15 Hz in a room of that size. There, I've posted it on a forum prior to measurement. We shall see.
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post #19 of 194 Old 11-19-2014, 11:22 PM
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@Electrodynamic
what is suggested/warranty power in infinite baffle with this driver?

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"I am officially stating that the OP does not need a manifold..."


the primary purpose of the manifold is to set up a balanced system that cancels vibration which would otherwise rattle the structure/home. just mounting the ib24 on a cutout in a wall might not be the best idea.

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post #21 of 194 Old 11-19-2014, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post
For my experience in IB in exactly what you are doing (subs in the attic firing down through a manfiold into the room) and particularly the size of the room you have I suggest putting the manifold/woofers in the center of the room. I am officially stating that the OP does not need a manifold with multiple other 18's as someone else eluded to to 'help' with the response. In a 14x14 room utilizing two HS 24's room nodes will be negligible. Sure there may be one spot that is 1.5 dB down from the rest of the entire room but placing the manifold as close to the listening position as possible has always yielded the best results. Its impressive how much cancellation drywall has when you take into consideration that the drywall and insulation in the attic is solely responsible for containing the rear wave of the subwoofer system. The further away you get from the manifold outlet the more cancellation (reduction of bass) you get. Note that the IB systems I previously mentioned were in a 25x40' room with 16' vaulted ceilings but in a 14x14' room with a flat ceiling the aforementioned cancellation issues will not be as prevalent.

As long as the OP's house doesn't tear itself apart I'm anticipating an F3 of 15 Hz in a room of that size. There, I've posted it on a forum prior to measurement. We shall see.
It's all mathematical and beyond me!

That said, one can typically calculate potential nulls/peaks using the following formula:

wavelength = propagation speed / frequency

Or so says my friend Paul.

Regarding his house tearing itself apart, as long as he builds a DO manifold as @ErasmusDarwin suggested, he should be in good shape!
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post #22 of 194 Old 11-20-2014, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
"I am officially stating that the OP does not need a manifold..."


the primary purpose of the manifold is to set up a balanced system that cancels vibration which would otherwise rattle the structure/home. just mounting the ib24 on a cutout in a wall might not be the best idea.
Thanks for stopping by my little house of horrors build. Actually, Nick was responding to a former post in this thread of someone asking if there would also be more 18s in the room as well as the 24s and he was saying "no" to additional manifolds full of 18s. We have discussed at length the need for a dual opposed manifold for the 24s which I will be using. Just to clarify what and why he wrote that.
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post #23 of 194 Old 11-20-2014, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Electrodynamic View Post
For my experience in IB in exactly what you are doing (subs in the attic firing down through a manfiold into the room) and particularly the size of the room you have I suggest putting the manifold/woofers in the center of the room. I am officially stating that the OP does not need a manifold with multiple other 18's as someone else eluded to to 'help' with the response. In a 14x14 room utilizing two HS 24's room nodes will be negligible. Sure there may be one spot that is 1.5 dB down from the rest of the entire room but placing the manifold as close to the listening position as possible has always yielded the best results. Its impressive how much cancellation drywall has when you take into consideration that the drywall and insulation in the attic is solely responsible for containing the rear wave of the subwoofer system. The further away you get from the manifold outlet the more cancellation (reduction of bass) you get. Note that the IB systems I previously mentioned were in a 25x40' room with 16' vaulted ceilings but in a 14x14' room with a flat ceiling the aforementioned cancellation issues will not be as prevalent.

As long as the OP's house doesn't tear itself apart I'm anticipating an F3 of 15 Hz in a room of that size. There, I've posted it on a forum prior to measurement. We shall see.
I can not wait to prove your predictions true.
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post #24 of 194 Old 11-20-2014, 08:58 AM
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I'm guessing the 230 lbs is including the driver, yes?

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Mine has no problem getting its ~230lbs enclosure moving violently, enough to buck off another hefty sub I had stacked atop it (for comparison listening) had I not cut the volume in time.
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post #25 of 194 Old 11-20-2014, 10:27 AM
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I'm guessing no.

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post #26 of 194 Old 11-20-2014, 10:37 AM
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Too bad you don't have more space to play with. If I had 24" subs I would definitely want to see those puppies as opposed to hiding them in a manifold.

In my 8 x 18" IB install, my original plan was to hide the drivers behind a grill to match the fabric on the acoustic treatments. But after I saw them facing me, I decided to leave them exposed! Of course knowing I was not using a manifold approach, I spent months trying to formulate a viable solution to the walls which the subs are mounted in. Long story short -- it works great!
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post #27 of 194 Old 11-20-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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My mains showed up today and FedEx delivered one of my towers completly destroyed. Htd overnighter me a new one
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post #28 of 194 Old 11-20-2014, 06:23 PM
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My mains showed up today and FedEx delivered one of my towers completly destroyed. Htd overnighter me a new one
what are you using for your mains? lots of pictures or it didn't happen
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post #29 of 194 Old 11-21-2014, 06:45 AM
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what are you using for your mains? lots of pictures or it didn't happen
Lmao...I second this

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post #30 of 194 Old 11-21-2014, 06:49 PM
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I think something else might have happend today as well.
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