Measuring Amplifiers - Page 15 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 1783 Old 02-20-2015, 07:36 AM
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That's an interesting piece of kit desertdome. After configuration does the box handle itself or do you need a constant connection to an outboard computer? I ask because I have macs and pc's but currently have no HTPC in the rack (Mac mini logic board failure).


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post #422 of 1783 Old 02-20-2015, 09:32 AM - Thread Starter
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So I just tried to power my SEOS's with an FP14k, it was horrible.
The 10kQ is MUCH better sounding. By like 5x.

No idea why. (I don't have the equipment to measure why.)

FP14k was noisy, grainy, rolled off highs, and lacked soundstage (bad HF cross-talk?)
I level matched it and everything.

I'm sort of saddened because the FP14k is slightly cheaper. (You would think that a 2-ch amp would be better, but apparently not.)
Maybe my 14k is just bad at HF or maybe Sanway has changed components(?) or maybe I just lucked out with my one 10kQ. LOL
Whatever the case, I don't like it wired like that.

Of course powering tweeters with a FP14k is a silly idea to start with, I tried it just because I could...

If it were for a rock concert or party then I'd say "who cares", but for critical listen... I'd pass.
It wasn't bad sounding, but it wasn't hi-fi either.

I want to hear an Emotiva amp, McIntosh, Bryston, and Crest CC and maybe that Benchmark amp one of these days.

So far the Classe 600 and Sherbourn PT-7030 are the Top 2 amps I've ever heard for powering tweeters with. (However, I like\need amps with decent output indicators because I like it loud, so that limits my choices...)
The Rotel RB-1090 and RB-1092 and 10kQ are in the Top 5.
Of that list, the 10kQ is the cheapest, smallest and lightest overall, and is what I'm currently using.
FP14000 was made for LF, the 6000 or 10000 from the FP series are different beasts. Also, check the ipd and plm series if you want something for hf, though there are better choices.
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post #423 of 1783 Old 02-20-2015, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisslone View Post
That's an interesting piece of kit desertdome. After configuration does the box handle itself or do you need a constant connection to an outboard computer? I ask because I have macs and pc's but currently have no HTPC in the rack (Mac mini logic board failure).


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Since the HTPC does the DSP, it always needs to be connected. You can use many multi-channel DAC's as standalone, but they don't have the DSP required for active crossovers, etc. Standalone mode is more for live music playback/recording.
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post #424 of 1783 Old 02-20-2015, 04:45 PM
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So the flu has caused me to have a few hours playing with amps....

I made a bridged cable and have an unbridged cable now to go back and forth between a single channel of a clone fp14000 and a bridged inuke 3000dsp. They have been feeding one sealed ftw-21 in a 6.4 cf. box in one of the better spots in my room (i don't have great sub location options as my space is small and awkward). The space is currently open at the back of the basement room to the upstairs and the rest of the house. Basement is 7' with thick 2' wide rock walls with insulation and osb walls covering half the room. I am working on a small (10x10x6.8') room in room dead recording space that can be opened up to the theater room for some potential reverb. Don't know if it will work well, but I am going to try.

From my ears, the FP digs so much deeper even without any e.q. from the mini-dsp. The inuke even with a low shelf filter below 20 can't deliver as much low end power. I am looking into the best way to measure and compare the two. I have a cm-140 and a umik-1 calibrate from Cross Spectrum. The biggest problem I have is that the room goes nuts and starts to boom currently if the SPL gets too high....

From the ear, I like the FP much better than the bridged inuke 3000dsp in these sealed enclosures. The Inuke is not bad and would likely work great in a ported box >15hz or so. I enjoyed it for a year before getting the FP. I believe there is a difference, I just don't know if my room will allow measuring it with any accuracy... Maybe HurtBass can try in his room with his amps, until Knot can get a clone on the bucket?

Any ideas or recommendations on measuring with REW? I am a newby with trying to get good results with REW.
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post #425 of 1783 Old 02-21-2015, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cellarnoise View Post
From the ear, I like the FP much better than the bridged inuke 3000dsp in these sealed enclosures. The Inuke is not bad and would likely work great in a ported box >15hz or so. I enjoyed it for a year before getting the FP. I believe there is a difference, I just don't know if my room will allow measuring it with any accuracy... Maybe HurtBass can try in his room with his amps, until Knot can get a clone on the bucket?
The amp is rated for ~132volts RMS @ 4-ohms according to the Sanway whitepaper.

Powering two of my sealed LMS-18's I was able to clip the FP14k @ 15hz and it gave 73volts rms. Which according to winISD that works out to be 820watts x2 continous for a few seconds.
It was not able to bottom out the LMS's before clipping, although it was darn close.

With no load it did ~150vRMS at the clipping LED all the way to 4hz, which is the lower response limit of my DSP. The 10kQ did 105vRMS, and the EP4000 did 80vRMS, under similar conditions to 10hz.
For rail-voltage the 14k and itech8000 seem to be in the top 2 spots for all the amps I've measured thus far.

Under a load... assuming the power supply could supply the amperes, 150vRMS would be 5625 burst watts @ 4ohms (in-theory).
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Last edited by BassThatHz; 02-22-2015 at 07:17 PM.
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post #426 of 1783 Old 02-25-2015, 04:59 AM
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Notnyt, would you be interested (and have the time) in putting a qsc pl236 through testing?
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post #427 of 1783 Old 02-25-2015, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cmryan821 View Post
Notnyt, would you be interested (and have the time) in putting a qsc pl236 through testing?
I'm sure he would.
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post #428 of 1783 Old 02-26-2015, 06:50 PM
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So I've plopped down some serious cash for a pair of PLD4.2 s and a PLD4.5 from QSC. The 4.2 is rated at 400w continuous at 8ohm for all 4 channels (albeit at 1kHz with 1% THD) so that's 8 channels of mains with more than adequate power given my DIY SEOS mains. And the 4.5 will have two bridged channels for a little over 2000w at 4ohm continuous for each of the two UXL's coming from the group buy.


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post #429 of 1783 Old 02-27-2015, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisslone View Post
So I've plopped down some serious cash for a pair of PLD4.2 s and a PLD4.5 from QSC. And the 4.5 will have two bridged channels for a little over 2000w at 4ohm continuous for each of the two UXL's coming from the group buy.
When you get it you should measure the unloaded voltage at clipping, with a 60hz sinewave. You should get +95volts or QSC is lying to you. QSC is not known for lying, but it's always good to double check.


In order to do 2kW x2 or 4kW bridged continuous you'd need a 50amp breaker and corresponding wire gauge on that beast. Otherwise you won't "actually" see that number.
With only a 30amp breaker it is not "realistic" to expect more than 1.5kW x2 continuous (3kW bridged) with even a very efficient amplifier.
With a 20amp, 900watts (1.8kW bridged), and a 15amp 700watts (1.4kW bridged).

Burst can be much higher, but not the continuous for more than 1-10 seconds. The panel breaker ensures it won't happen, as do any internal fuses/breakers.

If you like dubstep at full volume for minutes on end, you'll need a 50amp breaker and a 10kW old-school Class H amp like the Crown MT-10k.



Dual 0.5ohm? No Problem! POWER HAS ARRIVED!
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post #430 of 1783 Old 02-28-2015, 10:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
The amp is rated for ~132volts RMS @ 4-ohms according to the Sanway whitepaper.

Powering two of my sealed LMS-18's I was able to clip the FP14k @ 15hz and it gave 73volts rms. Which according to winISD that works out to be 820watts x2 continous for a few seconds.
It was not able to bottom out the LMS's before clipping, although it was darn close.

With no load it did ~150vRMS at the clipping LED all the way to 4hz, which is the lower response limit of my DSP. The 10kQ did 105vRMS, and the EP4000 did 80vRMS, under similar conditions to 10hz.
For rail-voltage the 14k and itech8000 seem to be in the top 2 spots for all the amps I've measured thus far.

Under a load... assuming the power supply could supply the amperes, 150vRMS would be 5625 burst watts @ 4ohms (in-theory).
I just tested the voltage bridged. It did 295volts RMS at just below clipping, and 350 at heavy clipping.

In-Theory that is 22kW, and 31kW heavily clipped.
With a load I don't think we'd see anywhere near those numbers.

That is some seriously dangerous rail voltage!
It would make for a good fly zapper!

I was able to sag the line voltage coming into my house with this amp. It went from 120volts to 116volts at stereo 4-ohm at full power.
Those are 2awg wires! I didn't think it was possible. (Your 10awg house romex doesn't stand a chance under such strain!) You'll undervolt the amp and trip a breaker (at best).

Haven't tripped any breakers or blown any fuses yet. I think I'm gonna call it quits before something bad happens.
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post #431 of 1783 Old 02-28-2015, 11:02 PM
 
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Bass, you got issues man...I like it. Keep up the sickness.
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post #432 of 1783 Old 03-01-2015, 12:33 AM
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I'm sure if I read through all the fine print we'd find the "continuous" power is a duty cycle rating and not actually infinitely continuous. Likely 25% or 33% duty cycle.


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post #433 of 1783 Old 03-01-2015, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
I just tested the voltage bridged. It did 295volts RMS at just below clipping, and 350 at heavy clipping.

In-Theory that is 22kW, and 31kW heavily clipped.
With a load I don't think we'd see anywhere near those numbers.

That is some seriously dangerous rail voltage!
It would make for a good fly zapper!

I was able to sag the line voltage coming into my house with this amp. It went from 120volts to 116volts at stereo 4-ohm at full power.
Those are 2awg wires! I didn't think it was possible. (Your 10awg house romex doesn't stand a chance under such strain!) You'll undervolt the amp and trip a breaker (at best).

Haven't tripped any breakers or blown any fuses yet. I think I'm gonna call it quits before something bad happens.
I currently run the fp14000 on a dedicated 12 awg line at 120V. I may eventually go through the trouble of running a dedicated 10 awg line just to see if the big hits benefit.

So far I have not had any breaker issues or other issues besides hearing the caps suck juice on power up from this one amp. I am thinking that a there will be no benefit in up-sizing from 12 awg, but I will at least have another dedicated line to play with in the future.
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post #434 of 1783 Old 03-01-2015, 09:24 PM
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bass, you got issues man...i like it.
I think we all do in this regard
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post #435 of 1783 Old 03-02-2015, 10:06 PM
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I currently run the fp14000 on a dedicated 12 awg line at 120V. I may eventually go through the trouble of running a dedicated 10 awg line just to see if the big hits benefit.
So far I have not had any breaker issues or other issues besides hearing the caps suck juice on power up from this one amp. I am thinking that a there will be no benefit in up-sizing from 12 awg, but I will at least have another dedicated line to play with in the future.
I took a look at their power cord. I looks like 9awg on the 2015 version.
If you have a long run, you might be loosing 100-200watts per channel.

The clone can run as low at 100volts according to the back of the amp. Which would be 300watts per channel of loss vs 120V in optimal conditions.

Since 2kW vs 4kW is only 3db, I doubt you'd notice 200watts.
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post #436 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Notnyt, would you be interested (and have the time) in putting a qsc pl236 through testing?
Sure, send me a pm or email rob _ at _ rznt.com and I'll get my info to you for shipping.
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post #437 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 04:00 PM - Thread Starter
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And a preview of some stuff going on the bench shortly. I have ridiculously high res versions of these that will be going up once I get the site live.






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post #438 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 04:05 PM
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I have a few goodies I could bring by.
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post #440 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 04:10 PM - Thread Starter
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I have a few goodies I could bring by.
Definitely. It takes a few hours to bench test and get all the fancy images. Whatever you want to bring by, I'll be happy to test.
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post #441 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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High on my list, I want to get a latest gen FP14000 and FP10000Q from Sanway to test. Maybe an Inuke 12000 as well. Also, a regular NU6000 and not the 4 channel one, so it can be compared.
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post #442 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 04:16 PM
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High on my list, I want to get a latest gen FP14000 and FP10000Q from Sanway to test. Maybe an Inuke 12000 as well. Also, a regular NU6000 and not the 4 channel one, so it can be compared.
All of that would be friggin' awesome to see tested.
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post #443 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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All of that would be friggin' awesome to see tested.
That's the goal. Going to test my 5308 and x1000 at some point as well, at least two channel output from them anyway.
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post #444 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 04:37 PM
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Cool. Some AVR tests would be awesome. Maybe you could hook up speakers to the untested channels and see how much the output dips?
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post #445 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 05:43 PM
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That's the goal. Going to test my 5308 and x1000 at some point as well, at least two channel output from them anyway.
Definitely would be appreciated. Your 5308 has a stronger amp section than most avr's but it would still be nice to see how an avr compares to standalone amps.
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post #446 of 1783 Old 03-03-2015, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Definitely would be appreciated. Your 5308 has a stronger amp section than most avr's but it would still be nice to see how an avr compares to standalone amps.
I performed some quick measurements on it when I setup my bucket, but nothing thorough. It did quite well, and will never break a sweat in the setup it currently powers. That said, I want to get some full measurements from it =] However, hooking up extra speakers at those levels, I wouldn't be able to stay in the room.
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post #447 of 1783 Old 03-04-2015, 12:27 AM
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Not...site for these tests is definitely happening?
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post #448 of 1783 Old 03-04-2015, 12:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Not...site for these tests is definitely happening?
indeed.
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post #449 of 1783 Old 03-04-2015, 12:58 AM
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You could maybe try having a pair of speakers placed face to face wired out of phase with a few blankets thrown over the top? Probably still need earplugs.
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post #450 of 1783 Old 03-04-2015, 04:04 AM
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indeed.


Thank you, sir!
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