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post #1441 of 1707 Old 07-10-2018, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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I just put the NU3000DSP on the bench again.

It looks like the efficiency numbers I previously reported were incorrect. Apparently my amp probe was giving faulty results. I've replaced it once it became obvious, but apparently those faulty numbers slipped through.

NU3000DSP Summary: about 75% efficiency into 2ohms/4ohms bridged, 85% into 4ohms/8 ohms bridged, and 90% efficiency into 8 ohms. 1600w max output power.


I just ran these at 120hz up to clipping... The high power runs go into protect after a few seconds, so you can pretty much consider this max power available from the amp.

2ch into 2.3 ohm 713w x2 (1426w) it's consuming 1930 watts of power. 74% efficiency. The NU3000DSP can only sustain this briefly before going into protect.


2ch into 4.6 ohms, 394w x 2 (789w) it's consuming 946w, about 83% efficiency.


2ch into 9 ohms, 256w x 2 (512w) it's consuming 566w, about 90% efficiency.


bridged into 4.6 ohms, 1556w it's consuming 2050w, about 76% efficiency.


bridged into 9 ohms, 984w, it's consuming 1150w, about 86% efficiency.


So there's about a 2-3% efficiency gain in bridged mode.
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post #1442 of 1707 Old 07-10-2018, 06:01 PM
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Measuring Amplifiers

Are these numbers consistent with the 6k numbers?

This is great info, thanks!

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post #1443 of 1707 Old 07-11-2018, 04:43 PM
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Were fp's calculated with the faulty values? Perhaps for Sanway's but not Smith's?
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post #1444 of 1707 Old 07-11-2018, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
Were fp's calculated with the faulty values? Perhaps for Sanway's but not Smith's?
not sure, but I don't think the values were faulty. The older sanway amps didnt produce as much power. The newer PSes were better.
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post #1445 of 1707 Old 07-12-2018, 12:10 PM
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and by not much power, we mean: more than any Behringer or Crown ever made, or almost anything else niether.

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post #1446 of 1707 Old 07-12-2018, 12:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post
and by not much power, we mean: more than any Behringer or Crown ever made, or almost anything else niether.
They only sustained 2800 watts or so, so that statement is not correct.
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post #1447 of 1707 Old 07-12-2018, 01:17 PM
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I'm sure I'm being dense but what's the link to the amplifier test results? Also is the smith's fp14k 2 ohm stable?
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post #1448 of 1707 Old 07-12-2018, 02:23 PM
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I'm sure I'm being dense but what's the link to the amplifier test results? Also is the smith's fp14k 2 ohm stable?
1. Which Amp?
2. Yes

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post #1449 of 1707 Old 07-17-2018, 03:51 PM
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What about the fp14000q? Would you run an hs24 off two channels and a couple of side subs off the other two? Or possibly four smaller sealed subs. Guessing it makes comparable total power to the 14000 but divided by four channels. That would put it sustained power a touch under 1000 wpc?


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post #1450 of 1707 Old 07-18-2018, 05:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
What about the fp14000q? Would you run an hs24 off two channels and a couple of side subs off the other two? Or possibly four smaller sealed subs. Guessing it makes comparable total power to the 14000 but divided by four channels. That would put it sustained power a touch under 1000 wpc?


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Do you mean FP20000Q? If so, Then yes you can run an 2 HS24 on it's own channel...That's what I do

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post #1451 of 1707 Old 07-18-2018, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Do you mean FP20000Q? If so, Then yes you can run an 2 HS24 on it's own channel...That's what I do

I was looking at smiths and they have a 14q that looks like the enhanced 14k but is four channels. I want to fan mod it and the 20q sounds like a lot of heat in a small box and maybe not the best fan mod candidate. Did you fan mod yours?


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post #1452 of 1707 Old 07-18-2018, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
I was looking at smiths and they have a 14q that looks like the enhanced 14k but is four channels. I want to fan mod it and the 20q sounds like a lot of heat in a small box and maybe not the best fan mod candidate. Did you fan mod yours?


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Do you have a link to this fp14Q four channel amp. All I see on there website is 10Q, 18Q, and 20Q 4 channel amps.
http://www.imsmiths.com/page45?_l=en&product_id=105

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post #1453 of 1707 Old 07-18-2018, 06:30 AM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Do you have a link to this fp14Q four channel amp. All I see on there website is 10Q, 18Q, and 20Q 4 channel amps.
http://www.imsmiths.com/page45?_l=en&product_id=105
It's on their aliexpress page
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post #1454 of 1707 Old 07-18-2018, 06:49 AM
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It's on their aliexpress page
I'd get their fp20Q if I were you.

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post #1455 of 1707 Old 07-18-2018, 07:20 AM
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I'd get their fp20Q if I were you.


Do you have one? Would you fan mod it? In the 20q thread it was stated how hot the xbs one gets. And maybe the smiths is more efficient but enough to make that much heat difference?


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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
Do you have one? Would you fan mod it? In the 20q thread it was stated how hot the xbs one gets. And maybe the smiths is more efficient but enough to make that much heat difference?


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I thought it was that it wasn't recommended to do hardcore dubstep for hours on it that it would get hot.
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post #1457 of 1707 Old 07-18-2018, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
Do you have one? Would you fan mod it? In the 20q thread it was stated how hot the xbs one gets. And maybe the smiths is more efficient but enough to make that much heat difference?


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Yes I do, but it's an XBS. I've not noticed my fp20Q becoming abnormally hot to the touch after watching a movie or a couple of hours of music session. I'd imagine if I pumped a 20hz sine wave at 0 MV for an hour, my fp20q probably would not like that.

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post #1458 of 1707 Old 07-18-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post
Yes I do, but it's an XBS. I've not noticed my fp20Q becoming abnormally hot to the touch after watching a movie or a couple of hours of music session. I'd imagine if I pumped a 20hz sine wave at 0 MV for an hour, my fp20q probably would not like that.

Got it thanks. What kind of circuit are you connected to?

I thought there were comments that the 14k delivered about the same overall output as the xbs 20k but I may have that wrong. The price is definitely tempting.


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post #1459 of 1707 Old 07-18-2018, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Vince_B View Post
Got it thanks. What kind of circuit are you connected to?

I thought there were comments that the 14k delivered about the same overall output as the xbs 20k but I may have that wrong. The price is definitely tempting.


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30a 240v circuit. The fp20k hasn't been officially tested with all channels driven, so no one really knows what it can do. All I know is I love mine

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post #1460 of 1707 Old 08-09-2018, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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XBS FP22000Q

Short version:

This amp is serious business.

It can output 4kw per channel into 4 ohms. Overall power output is limited to 8kw. This is a lot of power, likely too much for any circuit this amp will ever be on. It will easily trip a 30a breaker if pushed to these levels.

It can burst to about 12.5kw at 20hz, 14kw at 40hz, and 17kw at 80hz and up.

Best THD+N at 8 ohms is about 0.04%, at 4 ohms is 0.08%, and at 2 ohms is 0.18%

Efficiency is excellent, mid 90s into 4.5 ohms.

It is not 2 ohm stable. In fact, an amplifier board let out the magic smoke during sustained high power tests into 4 ohms. The signal in the image below was captured moments before it let go. XBS sent a replacement board. Replacement was trivial and took about 10 minutes. I doubt this is a load the amplifier will ever see in actual use unless playing electronic music at very high levels. That said, the thermal protection was inadequate and did not react quickly enough. There should likely be some intelligent limiting circuitry to prevent this, or components used that can handle the power, but it appears the protection is lacking. This is interesting, since there is some protection for high output at high frequencies. When trying to perform output tests at 10khz and above the amp would go into protect within a second.

Also of note, the heat sinks are not actually copper, but anodized aluminum.

Tests were performed with a 120v unit on a 30a circuit.

This is pushing close to max power at 40hz on a single channel into about 4.6 ohms (voltage scale multiplier is 10x too high and amperage is 10x too low). Output is magenta, power input is purple, voltage input yellow, amperage input blue.





1 channel driven into 4.5 ohms


2 channels driven into 4.5 ohms using separate ps


1 channel bridged into 9 ohms


2 channels bridged into 9 ohms. This gives you a good idea of the maximum output capabilities of the amp.















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post #1461 of 1707 Old 08-09-2018, 07:30 PM
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Spoiler!


is the fan noise as loud as FP14K clone? is it run as hot as FP14K clone?

would you switch from SP12K to this one? or if you haven't own the SP12K, which one will you choose between SP12K and XBS FP22000Q?
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post #1462 of 1707 Old 08-09-2018, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

is the fan noise as loud as FP14K clone? is it run as hot as FP14K clone?

would you switch from SP12K to this one? or if you haven't own the SP12K, which one will you choose between SP12K and XBS FP22000Q?
You know you don't have to quote the whole message right?

Yes, fan noise is like the FP14K. 62dbspl a weighted 6" away from the front or back.

No, I wouldn't switch from an SP12K. One of the modules in there can sustain the power of this amp, though at lower voltage but higher current levels.

This amp also lacks decent protection, the SP12K does not.

This is probably the most power for dollar you're going to get, however they have drawbacks as listed.

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post #1463 of 1707 Old 08-09-2018, 07:48 PM
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great work Not , everyone is thankful for your contributions here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WereWolf84 View Post

is the fan noise as loud as FP14K clone? is it run as hot as FP14K clone?

would you switch from SP12K to this one? or if you haven't own the SP12K, which one will you choose between SP12K and XBS FP22000Q?
Fans get loud as hell when pushed. I've never owned an FP14k so I can't speak to the comparison. I would say it gets any hotter than any other amp I've had.
Remember, you can get 3 of these amps and they may still be cheaper or around the same price as one SP12K
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post #1465 of 1707 Old 08-09-2018, 10:53 PM
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It is not 2 ohm stable. In fact, an amplifier board let out the magic smoke during sustained high power tests into 4 ohms.
Oops.

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Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
That's some serious beef in the output stage! Kind of surprised they used metal cased transistors because of the cost and assembly hassle. But if you look at the spec sheet, they can take more thermal abuse than the plastic cases. OBTW, those are recent production, date codes show late February '18.

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If this is the standard "Class TD" topology, that's one of the tracking rail switches that blew up. I can't tell from your pic if something else took it out, or if it just couldn't handle the load.

On my Sanway DP10Q, those transistors have had the markings obliterated. Looks like XBS does the same. So no telling what that part is, beyond a power MOSFET.
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post #1466 of 1707 Old 08-09-2018, 11:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVChucko View Post
Oops.



That's some serious beef in the output stage! Kind of surprised they used metal cased transistors because of the cost and assembly hassle. But if you look at the spec sheet, they can take more thermal abuse than the plastic cases. OBTW, those are recent production, date codes show late February '18.



If this is the standard "Class TD" topology, that's one of the tracking rail switches that blew up. I can't tell from your pic if something else took it out, or if it just couldn't handle the load.

On my Sanway DP10Q, those transistors have had the markings obliterated. Looks like XBS does the same. So no telling what that part is, beyond a power MOSFET.
The markings are all there, the blown part is IXTK82N25P
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post #1467 of 1707 Old 08-10-2018, 12:46 AM
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What is meant by "one channel bridged into 9 ohms"
Did you mean two channels bridged into one 9 ohm load?
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post #1468 of 1707 Old 08-10-2018, 01:14 AM - Thread Starter
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What is meant by "one channel bridged into 9 ohms"
Did you mean two channels bridged into one 9 ohm load?
yes, it's technically two channels bridged, which is kind of self explanatory with the bridged part, but I was indicated one channel of output. The two channel bridged is with all 4 amplifier modules working.
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post #1469 of 1707 Old 08-10-2018, 07:49 AM
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So what could one expect with 4 channels driven into 4ohms? One driver per channel?

You said it could produce 4k per channel but limited to 8k which means 2k per channel all channels driven?

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post #1470 of 1707 Old 08-10-2018, 08:00 AM
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With great power come great responsibility..
I would love to see what a stable version would look like under more demanding loads. I guess only time will tell as the product matures..
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