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post #1651 of 1707 Old 03-21-2019, 03:51 PM
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Hey I just saw this posted on another forum.
It's a review of the crown XLS 1502.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/f...1502-amp.6062/

I'm on there quite a bit as I've focused on my headphones for the past couple of years and the results don't test as good as other units, but it's mostly headphone amps tested.

Anyone have any comments on the review? I'd love to hear the diy avs forum take as yall are my favorite place online.
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post #1652 of 1707 Old 03-21-2019, 04:46 PM
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This thread is probably also the right place to mention: There's a guy who runs a YT channel, and he tests all kinds of subs and amps. It's "Williston Audio"
https://www.youtube.com/user/bigdwiz

He has this Amp Dyno that looks like it's a custom-built piece of gear. Super freaking cool stuff. He focuses on car audio, but some of the stuff he tests crosses over into home audio. He did do a dyno test of the NX1000 amp, which I found enlightening.
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post #1653 of 1707 Old 03-21-2019, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverpike View Post
This thread is probably also the right place to mention: There's a guy who runs a YT channel, and he tests all kinds of subs and amps. It's "Williston Audio"
https://www.youtube.com/user/bigdwiz

He has this Amp Dyno that looks like it's a custom-built piece of gear. Super freaking cool stuff. He focuses on car audio, but some of the stuff he tests crosses over into home audio. He did do a dyno test of the NX1000 amp, which I found enlightening.
The amp dyno is junk. The results posted so far using it are not accurate.
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post #1654 of 1707 Old 03-21-2019, 06:49 PM
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Lightbulb

I just want to verify what I am seeing in regards to the XBS FQ 22000 measured results.


The amplifier's continuous average output per channel is 7511 watts (3755.5 per channel using two out four channels)

under a 4.5 ohm load from 20 Hz - 100 Hz.



The amplifier's power supplies are not robust enough to deliver 3755.5 watts per channel (All channels driven) under a

4.5 ohm load from 20 Hz - 100 Hz.



So realistically, the amplifier performs best (delivers the most amount of wattage) operating as two channel despite offering

four channels.



When the XBS FQ 22000 was measured, what was the duration of the sine wave?



Cheers!
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post #1655 of 1707 Old 03-22-2019, 12:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Hertz View Post
I just want to verify what I am seeing in regards to the XBS FQ 22000 measured results.


The amplifier's continuous average output per channel is 7511 watts (3755.5 per channel using two out four channels)

under a 4.5 ohm load from 20 Hz - 100 Hz.



The amplifier's power supplies are not robust enough to deliver 3755.5 watts per channel (All channels driven) under a

4.5 ohm load from 20 Hz - 100 Hz.



So realistically, the amplifier performs best (delivers the most amount of wattage) operating as two channel despite offering

four channels.



When the XBS FQ 22000 was measured, what was the duration of the sine wave?



Cheers!
You're looking at just continuous and ignoring the burst potential. The continuous alone is incredibly impressive, never mind that it has a couple of db of burst potential beyond that.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post56618322
LTD02 and MKtheater like this.
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post #1656 of 1707 Old 03-22-2019, 02:20 AM
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My music material focuses more on sustained notes than momentary Transients that fall within the millisecond realm. This
is why I am more concerned about the continuous average power than momentary bursts. I am considering investing into

four of these amplifiers by the 4th Quarter to run in conjunction to my Crown Macrotech 5000vz amplifiers. I am very old

school so these amplifiers will be working with a 99% analogue infrastructure (the 1% being Traktor DJ Software).



The XBS 22000 will be used to power 8 Dual 21 inch reflex subs (I should complete designing all 8 cabinets by the 4th
Quarter) at a nominal load of 4 ohms, two boxes per amplifier. Logically, it appears it would be best to use these amplifiers

under a two channel stereo mode than four channel stereo mode. For me burst ratings is not very important (Crown has always
posted burst ratings all the way back to the Crown DC 300) as a means of headroom for I am using multiple amplifiers

which gives me more than enough headroom.



It is the old school way of doing things which may seem bizarre to the majority in the world we live in today.



Cheers!
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post #1657 of 1707 Old 03-22-2019, 06:38 PM
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Didn't NotNyt replace like 8 bridged Class-H 5000's with 4 burst Sanway 14k's at one point, I could very well be Mandela effected though, so maybe I am misunderremembering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DC Hertz View Post
The XBS 22000 will be used to power 8 Dual 21 inch reflex subs
We are starting to go off topic again. But:

The XBS 20k is better than the 22k (IMO...)
The 20k has MANY of the traditional black plastic transistors (which ALL the other clones USE), where as the 22k uses only a FEW of the metal-top transistors. Hence why it blew up on NotNyt when he tested it at the limits!

I can't speak for the 22k as I don't own it, but I don't notice any difference between my Sanway 14k and the XBS 20k, if anything the 20k is more powerful, but that could just be my inefficient MalX-21's (that need to be thrown in the trash )

I've pushed all sorts of sinewaves and sweeps and basshead music through my clones and NONE have failed or muted or turned off or done anything BUT produce power. YMMV.

I watched the newest Ape Planet movie this Christmas at breakneck levels, and the amps were fine. I've NEVER heard a movie played LOUDER in my life. The bass almost cracked the projector bulb NO JOKE!

There are members on this forum that have broke their subs playing the basshead music I enjoy, regularly...
The continuous power on those songs are only bested by like: BassCannon, and not by much...
I highly doubt your music is more aggressive...

The power supply in the clones are a TRACKING design. It only consumes and produces as much power as is needed to reproduce the signal, where as Class-H amps only have a few gears to shift with, making them less efficient (for starters.)

The bridge rectifier in Class-H amps are generally the limiting factor. Most companies cut corners, massively.
It's possible to have enough parallel bridge rectifiers and toroidal windings to provide enough continuous-power but they NEVER do it!

Class-H maxes out at 49% efficient, and the XBS are in the 90's. The heatsinks and amp can be half the size and still be fine. The Crown5000 is like 5000watts of heat for 5000w of power (bridged mono).
The clone is like 800w of heat for 8000w of power, it also has 16kW of burst (or whatever...)

I would get 2 20k's for 8 21's, that is closer to "ideal", but you can do whatever makes you happy!
If they are 4-8ohm and not 1ohm IPAL's, then all should be GOOD!

That said: One can never have too much power!

8 bridged 14k's ought be enough for anyone!
-Bill Gates 1980

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post #1658 of 1707 Old 03-23-2019, 01:16 AM
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Thanks for your feedback.



It is not about how aggressive the material is but, the longevity of the duration. This is another reason I am more concerned with the

long-term affects (continuous average) than short-term duration (peaks) of the amplifier.






Cheers!
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post #1659 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
IPR2-7500 2 ohm numbers. These are pretty impressive, though I would like to see more burst in the LF range. Excellent efficiency numbers and great sustained power. That said, the fans are noisy and the price is a little high for what you get.

Frequency Response



Distortion numbers 6db below clipping into 2 ohms
Do you happen to have FR and Distortion @ 4 ohms saved as a spreadsheet (.xlsx, .csv) ? Not looking for max power figures, just something in the 10-50W range, if they exist.

If not, would you be able to bench test an amplifier for me?
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post #1660 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarJr View Post
Do you happen to have FR and Distortion @ 4 ohms saved as a spreadsheet (.xlsx, .csv) ? Not looking for max power figures, just something in the 10-50W range, if they exist.

If not, would you be able to bench test an amplifier for me?
Would be about this:



What amp do you want tested?
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post #1661 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Would be about this:



What amp do you want tested?
Thanks for the quick reply.

That chart looks like the data I need. Do you happen to have that saved as an excel spreadsheet or csv file? I'm looking to "filter out" my 7500's actual THD from the speaker THD testing (right into the spreadsheet values), since the speakers are very low distortion measuring in the 0.2x % range, so I want to remove the uncertainty. Also, the -24 dB rating equates to how much power output in that chart?

The bench testing of an amp would have been a last resort if I'm not able to filter out the IPR2-7500's distortion from the speaker's actual measured distortion within my spreadsheet.
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post #1662 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarJr View Post
Thanks for the quick reply.

That chart looks like the data I need. Do you happen to have that saved as an excel spreadsheet or csv file? I'm looking to "filter out" my 7500's actual THD from the speaker THD testing (right into the spreadsheet values), since the speakers are very low distortion measuring in the 0.2x % range, so I want to remove the uncertainty. Also, the -24 dB rating equates to how much power output in that chart?

The bench testing of an amp would have been a last resort if I'm not able to filter out the IPR2-7500's distortion from the speaker's actual measured distortion within my spreadsheet.
Your speakers measured distortion will likely be much higher than that, partially from the ambient noise floor, the mic's distortion, and the speaker's distortion. I do not have this in a CSV. If you need to measure higher frequency response, you may want to use a different amp with cleaner HF output.
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post #1663 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notnyt View Post
Your speakers measured distortion will likely be much higher than that, partially from the ambient noise floor, the mic's distortion, and the speaker's distortion. I do not have this in a CSV. If you need to measure higher frequency response, you may want to use a different amp with cleaner HF output.
These are AMT tweeters, which are some of the lowest distortion tweeters/speakers on the planet (Beyma TPL-150, Aurum Cantus AST 30130s, Hygeia RT-5002's/4001's). I know there are many things that contribute to what the charts say, I'm just looking to eliminate one source, which is from the amplifier. Keep in mind, I already measured them in the 0.1x-0.2x % range (that's not a mfg spec), so they can't measure higher than what they've already measured. Some of that is like you said, from other sources, which is what I'm trying to eliminate if at all possible. Can you bench test a Peavey CS-800X for me and save the data in a spreadsheet format? That sucker is heavy though, lol. How about I send you an Emotiva A-100? Time-Frame would be perhaps mid- to late-May.

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post #1664 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 01:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarJr View Post
These are AMT tweeters, which are some of the lowest distortion tweeters/speakers on the planet (Beyma TPL-150, Aurum Cantus AST 30130s, Hygeia RT-5002's/4001's). I know there are many things that contribute to what the charts say, I'm just looking to eliminate one source, which is from the amplifier. Keep in mind, I already measured them in the 0.1x-0.2x % range (that's not a mfg spec), so they can't measure higher than what they've already measured. Some of that is like you said, from other sources, which is what I'm trying to eliminate if at all possible. Can you bench test a Peavey CS-800X for me and save the data in a spreadsheet format? That sucker is heavy though, lol. How about I send you an Emotiva A-100? Time-Frame would be perhaps mid- to late-May.
I've tested the Emotiva A-100 into 8 ohms at 40w, <0.01% THD. Very clean amp. I have one in my kitchen.

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post #1665 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 02:46 PM
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Awesome. Can I convince you ($$) to do very specific tests for me into both 4Ω and 8Ω, at specific voltage drive levels and send me the files as spreadsheets?
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post #1666 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 04:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OscarJr View Post
Awesome. Can I convince you ($$) to do very specific tests for me into both 4Ω and 8Ω, at specific voltage drive levels and send me the files as spreadsheets?
I'll send you an mdat and you can export whatever you want from there. What levels are you looking for?
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post #1667 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 06:13 PM
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For levels, I was looking for 2V, 2.83V, 4V, 8V, 12V. All RMS of course. So what is an mdat file? I don't recognize it as a spreadsheet type file for excel. What program opens an mdat file extension?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarjr View Post
for levels, i was looking for 2v, 2.83v, 4v, 8v, 12v. All rms of course. So what is an mdat file? I don't recognize it as a spreadsheet type file for excel. What program opens an mdat file extension?
rew
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post #1669 of 1707 Old 04-23-2019, 08:16 PM
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rew
oh ok, got it. Really appreciate your help with this. No rush as I won't be ordering the amp until perhaps mid-May.
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post #1670 of 1707 Old 04-25-2019, 07:22 AM
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There is a guy in my hometown on ebay that would love to sell you all a 20000k clone.............. The loud factory. Go ahead buy Canadian/ Chinese.
Everyone and their dog now wants to be an audio dealer and sell you a clone.
Is it an XBS 20k? How much

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Is it an XBS 20k? How much
I have no idea, but buy the adds it looks like he is selling the updated units.
Surprising to me is the fact he has sold around 50 on book in the last year.
I should start selling them LOL.

Here is an interesting quote.............. " Don't mind the haters... you just can't fix stupid!!!!!. This is is what someone said when he proved his equipment came up with the same results as the AMP DYNO. He too was being told his tests were bogus!! and his equipment not good enough.



https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=459.60
A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are least under rated if at all.
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post #1672 of 1707 Old 04-25-2019, 01:38 PM
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someone at XBS got carried away with the 0 key, lol



Can I run it 4Ω bridged to get that power on a 120V 15A circuit? LOL

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post #1673 of 1707 Old 05-19-2019, 01:04 PM
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Notnyt,

I’m considering an FP22000Q for running 4 x 21DS115-4.

1. The woofers are 4 ohm nominal but system DCR is 2.2 ohm. Will the 22k be stable?

2. I want to run each woofer of a single channel for independent DSP. Will it manage to burst 3400W (woofer peak rating) across all 4 channels simultaneously at that load? I’m in the UK and have 248VAC at the wall.

3. Does it roll off any quicker in the bottom than the 14k, arguably one of its strongest selling points?

4. Could the amp be made quieter safely, especially at those power levels?

5. Any experience with the clones from Sinbosen? They market their amps on Youtube which I see no other manufacturer do.

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1. The woofers are 4 ohm nominal but system DCR is 2.2 ohm. Will the 22k be stable?
What's the impedance curve of the driver in your box?

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What's the impedance curve of the driver in your box?
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The DC resistance of the 21DS115's voice coil (Re) is 2.2 ohm.
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post #1677 of 1707 Old 05-30-2019, 09:19 PM
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As mentioned, this thread is for posting measurements of amps and measurements-related questions.
Not system-integration and configuration questions.

Ask your not-measurements in the clone amp thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-d...l#post58121310

Where I have just re-qouted you and some-what answered your questions.
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post #1678 of 1707 Old 06-09-2019, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Behringer UMC22 test rmaa

Don't feel like starting another thread for measuring other electronics.

I tested a UMC22 for someone, these are the results and my notes.

Maximum output of 1v before clipping is low for a balanced interface. There is a 0.2db output difference between left/right channels.

Noise gate lets a little bit of common mode through when disabled

Can start to clip around 2:30 oclock on the dial

Direct monitor drops output signal by 6db

Input clips around 550mv



And looped through itself. It's inputs are not very good. Ignore crosstalk numbers, tested with one channel only. I couldn't find a jumper handy for second channel.



Distortion vs Freq

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post #1679 of 1707 Old 06-09-2019, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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RXT6001 test rmaa

And my test interface (RTX6001) looped through itself set at 1V in and out

44khz



192khz
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post #1680 of 1707 Old 06-10-2019, 12:43 AM - Thread Starter
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I just tested a Crest Prolite 7.5

It's quite similar to the IPR2-7500, but a little bit more power potential by about 500w. The large 2200uF caps are replaced by 4000uF caps. These can put out some serious power. Also, Crest didn't mount it upside down in the enclosure.









1ch 2ohms (looks like my spreadsheet didn't save right, only 80hz and up was new data in sustained column. Below are IPR2-7500 numbers)


1ch 4ohms


1ch 8ohms



2ch 2ohms


2ch 4ohms


2ch 8ohms


Frequency Response

Last edited by notnyt; 06-10-2019 at 01:29 AM.
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